Author Topic: New Forum & News Updates  (Read 1804703 times)

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #2115 on: August 06, 2016, 04:47:12 PM »
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As a DBC rookie, I'm still trying to get caught up reading / watching everything that's out there (side note: reading the recent Shutter/Blevins exchanges on Bruce's website does kind of put the DZ stuff I read in perspective).  A couple things:

make-up:
It's my understanding that the FBI Agents who captured McCoy (and subsequently wrote the book claiming McCoy was DBC) stated McCoy was wearing make up and they believed DBC was as well...I think one specifically said that what the flight attendants thought was tobacco stains on his fingers they believe was make up.  Off the top of my head, a YouTube video of Lars Larsen interviewing the McCoy FBI agents who believe McCoy was DBC is one source on this.

TJC's book:
Even if RWR isn't DBC, it's a great read.  What's fascinating to me is his posts on Bruce's site totally 'fit' with their descriptions of him.  A couple things of note from the book that I don't believe have been brought up on this forum yet:

1) they established a DNA link between one of the letters the 'Count' had written someone in Astoria and the water bottle they took from RWR's garbage in 2013 (the same water bottle that RWR said on Bruce's forum he 'gave to them').
2) they've got multiple witnesses that put the 'Count' in Corvallis before the event (about an hour from PDX)
3) while not coming outright and saying it, they lead the reader to the belief that he exchanged the $ for krugerrands (Dick Briggs was his source for the krugerrands, when he skipped bail he eventually paid the person who posted his $60k bond in krugerrands, etc.)

A few thoughts to expand upon your comments Duckie:

1. SAC Russ Calame and Federal Court Officer Bernie Rhodes wrote DB Cooper - The Real McCoy, which outlines the McCoy skyjacking quite well, and C&R reveal their theory that McCoy was DB Cooper doing a second heist. Yes, it is widely believed that McCoy used make-up.

However, most researcher do not feel McCoy was Cooper.

Further, most researchers believe that DB Cooper wasn't wearing any make-up. The new statement from Flo via Colbert (and not directly, but through his sources) saying that DBC was wearing make-up is not generally believed by anyone I know. Flo has allegedly said a lot of stuff, and much that has been attributed to her, such as pix of Christiansen (and Uncle LD according to Marla) are "the best you've ever shown me," have never been corroborated. Flo steadfastly refuses to talk to me, and I understand that she didn't talk directly with Colbert, either, so we really don't know much about Flo's memory and the details of her recall.

Lars Larson is a conservative talk radio host out of Portland, Oregon, and is a true believer in all things McCoy. I've spoken several times to Lars and he is clearly convinced that everything Russ Calame says about McCoy is true. Lars is unable to consider any other possibilities, such as McCoy as a ground man for Cooper, or involved in Norjak in some corollary manner. Based upon my conversations with Lars, I don't think he has ever doubted himself - ever.

As for Rackstraw, it is clear that Colbert has shown convincingly that Rackstraw masqueraded as the German royal (Count?) Norman de Winter. But that's it. I don't see the DB Cooper connection.

Yes, de Winter had a plane in Astoria, OR, and perhaps Corvallis, OR as well, which is a few air minutes south of Portland. But then what? Colbert intimates that Rackstraw-as-Cooper escaped from his Ariel LZ via his plane. Okay, how did it get there? Did de Winter-Rackstraw fly into Ariel on the morning of 11. 14. 71, then hiked back to PDX by 2 pm, and picked up his black suit, tie and overcoat, and bomb along the way? Or did de Winter-Rackstraw-Cooper fly into PDX and an accomplice ferried the plane up to Ariel?

Plus, since a pinpoint landing through multiple layers of clouds would have been dicey, de Winter-Rackstraw-Cooper would have needed a full extraction team - guys to find him and extricate him from wherever he landed in southwestern Washington - AND haul ALL of his gear and his ass back to the getaway plane in Ariel? But at that point, why fly? After all that trouble, why not just keep driving to where ever?

And this is a guy (de Winter/Rackstraw/Cooper?) who woke up that morning on some guy's couch in Corvallis after partying all night? Really? Whew....
« Last Edit: August 06, 2016, 04:52:31 PM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

georger

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #2116 on: August 06, 2016, 05:12:35 PM »
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As a DBC rookie, I'm still trying to get caught up reading / watching everything that's out there (side note: reading the recent Shutter/Blevins exchanges on Bruce's website does kind of put the DZ stuff I read in perspective).  A couple things:

make-up:
It's my understanding that the FBI Agents who captured McCoy (and subsequently wrote the book claiming McCoy was DBC) stated McCoy was wearing make up and they believed DBC was as well...I think one specifically said that what the flight attendants thought was tobacco stains on his fingers they believe was make up.  Off the top of my head, a YouTube video of Lars Larsen interviewing the McCoy FBI agents who believe McCoy was DBC is one source on this.

TJC's book:
Even if RWR isn't DBC, it's a great read.  What's fascinating to me is his posts on Bruce's site totally 'fit' with their descriptions of him.  A couple things of note from the book that I don't believe have been brought up on this forum yet:

1) they established a DNA link between one of the letters the 'Count' had written someone in Astoria and the water bottle they took from RWR's garbage in 2013 (the same water bottle that RWR said on Bruce's forum he 'gave to them').
2) they've got multiple witnesses that put the 'Count' in Corvallis before the event (about an hour from PDX)
3) while not coming outright and saying it, they lead the reader to the belief that he exchanged the $ for krugerrands (Dick Briggs was his source for the krugerrands, when he skipped bail he eventually paid the person who posted his $60k bond in krugerrands, etc.)

A few thoughts to expand upon your comments Duckie:

1. SAC Russ Calame and Federal Court Officer Bernie Rhodes wrote DB Cooper - The Real McCoy, which outlines the McCoy skyjacking quite well, and C&R reveal their theory that McCoy was DB Cooper doing a second heist. Yes, it is widely believed that McCoy used make-up.

However, most researcher do not feel McCoy was Cooper.

Further, most researchers believe that DB Cooper wasn't wearing any make-up. The new statement from Flo via Colbert (and not directly, but through his sources) saying that DBC was wearing make-up is not generally believed by anyone I know. Flo has allegedly said a lot of stuff, and much that has been attributed to her, such as pix of Christiansen (and Uncle LD according to Marla) are "the best you've ever shown me," have never been corroborated. Flo steadfastly refuses to talk to me, and I understand that she didn't talk directly with Colbert, either, so we really don't know much about Flo's memory and the details of her recall.

Lars Larson is a conservative talk radio host out of Portland, Oregon, and is a true believer in all things McCoy. I've spoken several times to Lars and he is clearly convinced that everything Russ Calame says about McCoy is true. Lars is unable to consider any other possibilities, such as McCoy as a ground man for Cooper, or involved in Norjak in some corollary manner. Based upon my conversations with Lars, I don't think he has ever doubted himself - ever.

As for Rackstraw, it is clear that Colbert has shown convincingly that Rackstraw masqueraded as the German royal (Count?) Norman de Winter. But that's it. I don't see the DB Cooper connection.

Yes, de Winter had a plane in Astoria, OR, and perhaps Corvallis, OR as well, which is a few air minutes south of Portland. But then what? Colbert intimates that Rackstraw-as-Cooper escaped from his Ariel LZ via his plane. Okay, how did it get there? Did de Winter-Rackstraw fly into Ariel on the morning of 11. 14. 71, then hiked back to PDX by 2 pm, and picked up his black suit, tie and overcoat, and bomb along the way? Or did de Winter-Rackstraw-Cooper fly into PDX and an accomplice ferried the plane up to Ariel?

Plus, since a pinpoint landing through multiple layers of clouds would have been dicey, de Winter-Rackstraw-Cooper would have needed a full extraction team - guys to find him and extricate him from wherever he landed in southwestern Washington - AND haul ALL of his gear and his ass back to the getaway plane in Ariel? But at that point, why fly? After all that trouble, why not just keep driving to where ever?

And this is a guy (de Winter/Rackstraw/Cooper?) who woke up that morning on some guy's couch in Corvallis after partying all night? Really? Whew....

Flo steadfastly refuses to talk to me, and I understand that she didn't talk directly with Colbert, either, so we really don't know much about Flo's memory and the details of her recall.

That's the same resistance-defiance-independence Flo showed with Cooper. Glad to see she still has it. That may be the reason Cooper chose Tina over Flo to be his mediary. Good judgement on Cooper's part!  :))

As for the rest I will happily pass. Hallelujah   Hallelujah   Hallelujah   God Lord potent reineth! Hallelujah   Hallelujah   Hallelujah !  My diet doesn't include arsenic! :-*   :))
« Last Edit: August 06, 2016, 05:14:37 PM by georger »
 

Offline brbducksfan

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #2117 on: August 06, 2016, 05:30:12 PM »
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As a DBC rookie, I'm still trying to get caught up reading / watching everything that's out there (side note: reading the recent Shutter/Blevins exchanges on Bruce's website does kind of put the DZ stuff I read in perspective).  A couple things:

make-up:
It's my understanding that the FBI Agents who captured McCoy (and subsequently wrote the book claiming McCoy was DBC) stated McCoy was wearing make up and they believed DBC was as well...I think one specifically said that what the flight attendants thought was tobacco stains on his fingers they believe was make up.  Off the top of my head, a YouTube video of Lars Larsen interviewing the McCoy FBI agents who believe McCoy was DBC is one source on this.

TJC's book:
Even if RWR isn't DBC, it's a great read.  What's fascinating to me is his posts on Bruce's site totally 'fit' with their descriptions of him.  A couple things of note from the book that I don't believe have been brought up on this forum yet:

1) they established a DNA link between one of the letters the 'Count' had written someone in Astoria and the water bottle they took from RWR's garbage in 2013 (the same water bottle that RWR said on Bruce's forum he 'gave to them').
2) they've got multiple witnesses that put the 'Count' in Corvallis before the event (about an hour from PDX)
3) while not coming outright and saying it, they lead the reader to the belief that he exchanged the $ for krugerrands (Dick Briggs was his source for the krugerrands, when he skipped bail he eventually paid the person who posted his $60k bond in krugerrands, etc.)

A few thoughts to expand upon your comments Duckie:

1. SAC Russ Calame and Federal Court Officer Bernie Rhodes wrote DB Cooper - The Real McCoy, which outlines the McCoy skyjacking quite well, and C&R reveal their theory that McCoy was DB Cooper doing a second heist. Yes, it is widely believed that McCoy used make-up.

However, most researcher do not feel McCoy was Cooper.

Further, most researchers believe that DB Cooper wasn't wearing any make-up. The new statement from Flo via Colbert (and not directly, but through his sources) saying that DBC was wearing make-up is not generally believed by anyone I know. Flo has allegedly said a lot of stuff, and much that has been attributed to her, such as pix of Christiansen (and Uncle LD according to Marla) are "the best you've ever shown me," have never been corroborated. Flo steadfastly refuses to talk to me, and I understand that she didn't talk directly with Colbert, either, so we really don't know much about Flo's memory and the details of her recall.

Lars Larson is a conservative talk radio host out of Portland, Oregon, and is a true believer in all things McCoy. I've spoken several times to Lars and he is clearly convinced that everything Russ Calame says about McCoy is true. Lars is unable to consider any other possibilities, such as McCoy as a ground man for Cooper, or involved in Norjak in some corollary manner. Based upon my conversations with Lars, I don't think he has ever doubted himself - ever.

As for Rackstraw, it is clear that Colbert has shown convincingly that Rackstraw masqueraded as the German royal (Count?) Norman de Winter. But that's it. I don't see the DB Cooper connection.

Yes, de Winter had a plane in Astoria, OR, and perhaps Corvallis, OR as well, which is a few air minutes south of Portland. But then what? Colbert intimates that Rackstraw-as-Cooper escaped from his Ariel LZ via his plane. Okay, how did it get there? Did de Winter-Rackstraw fly into Ariel on the morning of 11. 14. 71, then hiked back to PDX by 2 pm, and picked up his black suit, tie and overcoat, and bomb along the way? Or did de Winter-Rackstraw-Cooper fly into PDX and an accomplice ferried the plane up to Ariel?

Plus, since a pinpoint landing through multiple layers of clouds would have been dicey, de Winter-Rackstraw-Cooper would have needed a full extraction team - guys to find him and extricate him from wherever he landed in southwestern Washington - AND haul ALL of his gear and his ass back to the getaway plane in Ariel? But at that point, why fly? After all that trouble, why not just keep driving to where ever?

And this is a guy (de Winter/Rackstraw/Cooper?) who woke up that morning on some guy's couch in Corvallis after partying all night? Really? Whew....

Hi Bruce,

Saw your exchange w/ Blevins this afternoon...he's got a new FBI source claiming his guy was DBC today????  Okay.... I'm more curious about what you heard from TJC about what Fuentes said at this 'conference'.

Truthfully, I have no idea who is 'right' on this stuff.  With regards to the make up, I thought it was pertinent to share w/ the group that someone besides TJC had speculated that DBC had used make up (the Utah-based FBI agent who believes Cooper=McCoy).

RWR/TJC: You make good points on all of these.  I'm not convinced RWR is DBC, but he's definitely an interesting dude.  You probably didn't see it as I put it within a different post, but given your connection to TJC, when you do your follow up questions with him can you ask him
1) why he didn't have Ingram take a polygraph? and
2) (new Q I just thought of) did he find any pictures of RWR in the 3 months AFTER the hijacking? (RWR's hair length in October is clearly too long to be DBC...he would've needed a haircut to look like DBC in late November...)

With regards to DBC in general - jump visibility, etc.
1) by specifying speed and direction (Reno), couldn't DBC use math to give him a pretty good approximation on where he is?
2) I get that it was stormy, clouds, etc. (though I've read conflicting accounts of exactly how 'stormy' it was as well), wouldn't the city lights (particularly of Vancouver suburbs) give him a pretty good idea of where he is as well? Isn't there a difference between Merwin Dam having the only lights he could possibly see vs. what all the lighting options are around Battleground, Orchard, etc.?

 

georger

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #2118 on: August 06, 2016, 05:37:03 PM »
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As a DBC rookie, I'm still trying to get caught up reading / watching everything that's out there (side note: reading the recent Shutter/Blevins exchanges on Bruce's website does kind of put the DZ stuff I read in perspective).  A couple things:

make-up:
It's my understanding that the FBI Agents who captured McCoy (and subsequently wrote the book claiming McCoy was DBC) stated McCoy was wearing make up and they believed DBC was as well...I think one specifically said that what the flight attendants thought was tobacco stains on his fingers they believe was make up.  Off the top of my head, a YouTube video of Lars Larsen interviewing the McCoy FBI agents who believe McCoy was DBC is one source on this.

TJC's book:
Even if RWR isn't DBC, it's a great read.  What's fascinating to me is his posts on Bruce's site totally 'fit' with their descriptions of him.  A couple things of note from the book that I don't believe have been brought up on this forum yet:

1) they established a DNA link between one of the letters the 'Count' had written someone in Astoria and the water bottle they took from RWR's garbage in 2013 (the same water bottle that RWR said on Bruce's forum he 'gave to them').
2) they've got multiple witnesses that put the 'Count' in Corvallis before the event (about an hour from PDX)
3) while not coming outright and saying it, they lead the reader to the belief that he exchanged the $ for krugerrands (Dick Briggs was his source for the krugerrands, when he skipped bail he eventually paid the person who posted his $60k bond in krugerrands, etc.)

A few thoughts to expand upon your comments Duckie:

1. SAC Russ Calame and Federal Court Officer Bernie Rhodes wrote DB Cooper - The Real McCoy, which outlines the McCoy skyjacking quite well, and C&R reveal their theory that McCoy was DB Cooper doing a second heist. Yes, it is widely believed that McCoy used make-up.

However, most researcher do not feel McCoy was Cooper.

Further, most researchers believe that DB Cooper wasn't wearing any make-up. The new statement from Flo via Colbert (and not directly, but through his sources) saying that DBC was wearing make-up is not generally believed by anyone I know. Flo has allegedly said a lot of stuff, and much that has been attributed to her, such as pix of Christiansen (and Uncle LD according to Marla) are "the best you've ever shown me," have never been corroborated. Flo steadfastly refuses to talk to me, and I understand that she didn't talk directly with Colbert, either, so we really don't know much about Flo's memory and the details of her recall.

Lars Larson is a conservative talk radio host out of Portland, Oregon, and is a true believer in all things McCoy. I've spoken several times to Lars and he is clearly convinced that everything Russ Calame says about McCoy is true. Lars is unable to consider any other possibilities, such as McCoy as a ground man for Cooper, or involved in Norjak in some corollary manner. Based upon my conversations with Lars, I don't think he has ever doubted himself - ever.

As for Rackstraw, it is clear that Colbert has shown convincingly that Rackstraw masqueraded as the German royal (Count?) Norman de Winter. But that's it. I don't see the DB Cooper connection.

Yes, de Winter had a plane in Astoria, OR, and perhaps Corvallis, OR as well, which is a few air minutes south of Portland. But then what? Colbert intimates that Rackstraw-as-Cooper escaped from his Ariel LZ via his plane. Okay, how did it get there? Did de Winter-Rackstraw fly into Ariel on the morning of 11. 14. 71, then hiked back to PDX by 2 pm, and picked up his black suit, tie and overcoat, and bomb along the way? Or did de Winter-Rackstraw-Cooper fly into PDX and an accomplice ferried the plane up to Ariel?

Plus, since a pinpoint landing through multiple layers of clouds would have been dicey, de Winter-Rackstraw-Cooper would have needed a full extraction team - guys to find him and extricate him from wherever he landed in southwestern Washington - AND haul ALL of his gear and his ass back to the getaway plane in Ariel? But at that point, why fly? After all that trouble, why not just keep driving to where ever?

And this is a guy (de Winter/Rackstraw/Cooper?) who woke up that morning on some guy's couch in Corvallis after partying all night? Really? Whew....

Hi Bruce,

Saw your exchange w/ Blevins this afternoon...he's got a new FBI source claiming his guy was DBC today????  Okay.... I'm more curious about what you heard from TJC about what Fuentes said at this 'conference'.

Truthfully, I have no idea who is 'right' on this stuff.  With regards to the make up, I thought it was pertinent to share w/ the group that someone besides TJC had speculated that DBC had used make up (the Utah-based FBI agent who believes Cooper=McCoy).

RWR/TJC: You make good points on all of these.  I'm not convinced RWR is DBC, but he's definitely an interesting dude.  You probably didn't see it as I put it within a different post, but given your connection to TJC, when you do your follow up questions with him can you ask him
1) why he didn't have Ingram take a polygraph? and
2) (new Q I just thought of) did he find any pictures of RWR in the 3 months AFTER the hijacking? (RWR's hair length in October is clearly too long to be DBC...he would've needed a haircut to look like DBC in late November...)

With regards to DBC in general - jump visibility, etc.
1) by specifying speed and direction (Reno), couldn't DBC use math to give him a pretty good approximation on where he is?
2) I get that it was stormy, clouds, etc. (though I've read conflicting accounts of exactly how 'stormy' it was as well), wouldn't the city lights (particularly of Vancouver suburbs) give him a pretty good idea of where he is as well? Isn't there a difference between Merwin Dam having the only lights he could possibly see vs. what all the lighting options are around Battleground, Orchard, etc.?

You need to read the thread -

Rataczak said 'we were in the suburbs and could see the lights of Portland coming up' ... when Cooper bailed. That sums it up - yes?  You can put Lorenz Transformations and Mountain News Drama back in your pocket.   :))

You know sometimes a banana is a banana is a banana.  ;)    Sometimes we discover the wheel has already been invented.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2016, 05:39:07 PM by georger »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #2119 on: August 06, 2016, 06:28:29 PM »
Quote
Saw your exchange w/ Blevins this afternoon...he's got a new FBI source claiming his guy was DBC today????  Okay.... I'm more curious about what you heard from TJC about what Fuentes said at this 'conference'.

Sounds like over reacting again, an email needs to be sent to Ayn Dietrich to clear this up....Bruce?
« Last Edit: August 06, 2016, 06:28:42 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #2120 on: August 06, 2016, 06:54:20 PM »
What a flurry of questions and comments. A few thoughts:

1. Bobby has been busy over at the Mountain News:

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In short, he has some intriguing information from a friend of a friend who was in the company of senior FBI staff recently, who said that the FBI thought Norjak was an inside job. Bobby, of course, jumps to the conclusion that this information means the FBI thinks Kenny is Cooper.

2. Let me dig into the Colbert pile of emails and notes to see what Tom is saying that Fuentes has said. Some of it was off-the-record...

OKAY: Got it:

 Fuentes has since told a deputy chief (3 weeks ago at an academy gathering), friend of a CCT member, that "all the DNA the bureau has is corrupted" -- no one knew back then how to preserve it.


This was in response to my questions about examining the DNA samples the FBI actually has and expanding the analysis using hair samples from the headrest. Colbert also went on to say that the CCT and he were not allowed to view any of the evidence directly, even though the Citizen Sleuth, Geoffrey Gray, and others, had.

Also, it clearly does not address the issue of lost evidence and if anyone is looking for it.

(I hope this is the Fuentes/Colbert information you are looking for, Duckie)

3. I love the insight that Rackstraw's hair must have been cut for the skyjacking due to its short length in November, but shoulder length at Disney World in October. Imagine if it was the other way around?

4. Flight Path and jump precision. I believe that the skyjacker could have approximated his location via math and projected LZ calculations. But landing within walking distance of his airplane parked somewhere in the Amboy area, and then taking off shortly thereafter without assistance? Whew. Hard to believe. Even with 377-Approved electronic tracking gear!

5. "Coming up on the suburbs of Portland and Vancouver..." Frankly, I take everything that Rataczak says, or even alleged to Anderson at this point, with a grain of salt. Simply, I don't know where 305 was, where Cooper landed, or who among the crew is telling the truth as we commonly define truth telling. To me, telling the truth means no spin jobs, omissions or distortions. And certainly no lying, not even little "white" lies...

6. Florence. It's great that Georger champions her as a Rock of Resolute Obstinence. But others who have actually spoken with Florence say she is wildly deceitful, forgetful, and tangential. I think it is telling that the only film clips we ever see of Florence are those taken in the early 1970s.

7. How dark was it? Having lived in Cooper Country for the past 25 years, I can tell you that out in the boonies it can get pretty dark at night. Some nights when it's raining and replete with lots of mist and fog, you can't see your hand, almost, in front of your face. Other times, it can be surprisingly light. The moon was 3/4 full on November 24, 1971, if I recall Georger's data from a few years ago, and there is a phenomena called "cloud bounce," where light will reflect off the bottom of clouds and bounce off the wet ground and trees and give a degree of illumination. But I would suspect that in the Amboy area at 8:15 pm that night, it was pretty scary - dark like that video Shut posted a few weeks ago of a night-time jump. Basically, "you can't see shit."

Not everyone will agree with that assessment, though. Robb Heady told me that in clear night skies he saw the ground perfectly well, including details of the trees. He also said he didn't need an altimeter because he saw the ground coming up at him, and he knew from experience when to pull. He said he pulled at 1,000 feet above the ground to minimize detection. He also said he landed hard because his 26-foot reserve chute was pretty small for the load of his body, the money, and the air density of mountain terrain.

8. Dwayne/Harold Ingram and lie detectors. I don't see the point of giving Brian's father a lie detector test. "Poppy" strikes me as the kind of guy who is always lying a little, constantly spinning the story - any story - to get the best results, whatever he determines that to be in the moment. I would imagine that the Ingram Family tells stories about how he changes his stories all the time. Any question of a plant by Ingram is undermined by the shard field. How did anyone know that thousands of pieces of money were three feet down in the sand? To me, a bigger question is how the family decided to divvy up the money they received after Tosaw won a court judgment in their favor. How did Brian become the custodian of the bills? How come Harold/Dwayne or Crystal didn't get a fistful? Bottom Line: Colbert is incorrect in his view of T-Bar and the money find.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2016, 07:27:22 PM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #2121 on: August 06, 2016, 07:13:23 PM »
Quote
In short, he has some intriguing information from a friend of a friend who was in the company of senior FBI staff recently, who said that the FBI thought Norjak was an inside job. Bobby, of course, jumps to the conclusion that this information means the FBI thinks Kenny is Cooper.

Like I said, sounds like he's over reacting again...

Quote
"Coming up on the suburbs of Portland and Vancouver...

According to the crew notes taken shortly after the hijacking, Vancouver was not mentioned.

Quote
They had not yet reached Portland proper but were definitely in the suburbs or immediate vicinity thereof



 

Offline Shutter

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #2122 on: August 06, 2016, 09:14:42 PM »
Well, Kenny is Cooper  :)) :)) :)) I guess I'll start shutting everything down. it's all wrapped up through a friend of friend.

Yes, the FBI would be much better off hiding the fact that Cooper is dead? why admit defeat on National television, oops, they did that, didn't they? for a guy who doesn't believe in conspiracies sure does have a lot of them.

I guess Tina was wrong when she said she had to look up at Cooper. what does she know.....

« Last Edit: August 06, 2016, 10:47:27 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #2123 on: August 07, 2016, 12:40:01 AM »
RB just emailed me to reassure us that he won't be rubbing our faces in the dirt....
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #2124 on: August 07, 2016, 12:47:54 AM »
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RB just emailed me to reassure us that he won't be rubbing our faces in the dirt....


There is nothing to rub....it's all talk, and nothing verifiable, just like the rest of his story.
 

Offline brbducksfan

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #2125 on: August 07, 2016, 01:34:19 AM »
Thank you for the thorough responses Bruce.  It seems the more I get into this, the more you can find contradictory information.   Tonight I've been reading up more about the weather...most things I've read have the wind coming out of the SW (blowing DBC NE when he jumped from the plane).  But I've also heard that winds were coming hard out of the Gorge that night blowing west (which depending on where the plane was, makes a direct deposit by DBC at Tina Bar more viable to me).

I also get where you're coming from on the Ingram dad...but to me, given TJC's core premise is multiple former Portland area drug dealers passing polygraphs regarding the $ being planted @ Tina Bar (and ultimately following the cookie crumbs that lead him to RWR), it would seem to me the results of an Ingram poly would matter.
 

Offline andrade1812

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #2126 on: August 07, 2016, 01:44:20 AM »
Polygraph results mean just about nothing:

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Offline MarkBennett

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #2127 on: August 07, 2016, 02:12:27 AM »
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RB just emailed me to reassure us that he won't be rubbing our faces in the dirt....


There is nothing to rub....it's all talk, and nothing verifiable, just like the rest of his story.

True or false, these doesn't feel right to me, whether this is coming from Robert or not.

If this was a couple of years after the hijacking or maybe around the time of the money find, I'd say, "Sure.  There are probably a lot of agents well versed in the Cooper case" and might have some opinions.

But this is 36 years after the money find. Only one agent works it.  Are there really that many agents in the Seattle FBI office who are up on all the latest information that is found?  I doubt it.  And, they certainly wouldn't have spent the money check on L.D. Cooper, if they knew for sure it was Kenny.

Unless the agent that was saying this had a last name of "Carr" or "Eng", any agent who said they knew Kenny was the hijacker was speculating.  It's also very likely that agent had less knowledge of the Cooper case than many on this forum.  Someone who hasn't worked on the case doesn't gain any special inside knowledge just by being employed by the FBI.

I'm open to more information if it's true.  But right now, it's just rumor and innuendo.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #2128 on: August 07, 2016, 02:25:43 AM »
It goes against everything....Cooper was lying when he said he didn't have a grudge against NWO, and the description was off, completely. this would be a conspiracy that not many would know, and yet, clear across the country people blurt out things? I think he's being set up, or as usual, he's over reacting to something.

Now, he has abandoned his site because he knows people are reading Bruce's site. worried they are going to take his computers, again? why keep it under the rug? Robert thinks it's to spare Bernie. all he has to do is move, the FBI could make that happen.

I don't see how they are going to respond to him.
 

Offline brbducksfan

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #2129 on: August 07, 2016, 03:05:43 AM »
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Polygraph results mean just about nothing:

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In a court of law, I agree with you, because some people do have the capability of beating them.  Depending on which study you want to cite, they will be accurate more than 80% of the time (and with skilled questioners, I've heard of accuracy claims way over 90%).  Got to mess around with one in law school once, and none of the wanna be lawyers were able to beat it.  From an investigative standpoint, there's a reason why the FBI has a lot of polygraphers on staff.  Likewise, from a journalistic standpoint, I would find it interesting if TJC asked Ingram to take a lie detector test about the $ and he refused.