DB COOPER

General Category => DB Cooper => Topic started by: Shutter on January 04, 2017, 06:42:31 PM

Title: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on January 04, 2017, 06:42:31 PM
Expedition Unknown will be airing a show on (TLC) January 11th at 9 pm 8c...

Josh Gates sets off on an expedition to crack the mystery behind the perpetrator of the only unsolved plane hijacking in US history. Picking up where the FBI left off, Josh joins citizen sleuths on the hunt for D.B. Cooper in the Pacific Northwest. He discovers new clues and theories before having the experience of a lifetime, jumping out of plane, just as Cooper did decades ago.

http://www.travelchannel.com/shows/expedition-unknown/episodes/db-cooper
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on January 11, 2017, 03:33:22 PM
Hello Everyone!

Airing tonight:  D.B.Cooper episode of EXPEDITION UNKNOWN!

Back this summer I reached out to a lot of you for help with a D.B.Cooper episode of EXPEDITION UNKNOWN on the Travel Channel.  I was impressed by the depth of knowledge of everyone on this site and grateful for everyone's generosity.  I'm happy to announce that the episode debuts this evening on the Travel Channel at 9pm.  I want to again thank everyone on here who ever answered an email or a phone call from me or or co-workers.  Specific thanks to members here: Shutter, Bruce Smith, Robert99, Georger, Meyer Louie, & Mark Meltzer (Mark's on here, I think, yes?).

I hope you all enjoy the show. And just remember, anything that you like, I'm totally responsible for (with all your help), and anything you don't–it was the Network!

Thanks again to a great community!


-Amanda Marks
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on January 11, 2017, 09:42:49 PM
This Greg guy doesn't seem to know there was an oscillation and a pressure bump...
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: andrade1812 on January 11, 2017, 10:00:40 PM
CRT production... Interesting. Does this mean Kaye "unfound" the titanium particles?
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on January 11, 2017, 10:20:31 PM
can the two be linked?

universal 25''-29'' inch CRT TV kit/ CRT TV accessory/ CRT TV mainboard. 1 Piece (Min. Order) ..... 15''NF SKD CRT TV B grade picture tube. US $20-60 / Piece ( FOB .... Material: Pure titanium black glaze/golden white enamel. Size: American ...
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on January 11, 2017, 10:21:42 PM
I guess Kenny didn't buy the tie at the local JC Penny....I'm sure it will now become a second hand bought item....
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: andrade1812 on January 11, 2017, 10:37:04 PM
Kaye has a partial list of the chemicals Kaye found:

http://www.citizensleuths.com/mccrone1.html
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Tom Kaye on January 11, 2017, 11:15:46 PM
Well I thought Josh and crew did a pretty good job! Congrats to everyone on this forum that had a chance to voice their ideas.

I have to get my ISP to upload the full list of particles because the Excel file is about 40 meg. There is a lot of searching to do in the particle list of this size. We hope this adds to the titanium find.

On another note one of the crew was searching google while we were filming and found a reference to the SST having the first ever CRT tube in the dashboard.  It would make sense that the chassis for that CRT might be out of titanium. Fertile ground.......

Tom Kaye
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Robert99 on January 11, 2017, 11:19:38 PM
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Well I thought Josh and crew did a pretty good job! Congrats to everyone on this forum that had a chance to voice their ideas.

I have to get my ISP to upload the full list of particles because the Excel file is about 40 meg. There is a lot of searching to do in the particle list of this size. We hope this adds to the titanium find.

On another note one of the crew was searching google while we were filming and found a reference to the SST having the first ever CRT tube in the dashboard.  It would make sense that the chassis for that CRT might be out of titanium. Fertile ground.......

Tom Kaye

Some types of titanium are also used in the paint for high speed aircraft and space craft.  Further, I understand that titanium can also be found in foods.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on January 11, 2017, 11:23:42 PM
I doubt you would get particles all over you from installing a tube screen..manufacturing, yes...
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on January 11, 2017, 11:26:48 PM
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Well I thought Josh and crew did a pretty good job! Congrats to everyone on this forum that had a chance to voice their ideas.

I have to get my ISP to upload the full list of particles because the Excel file is about 40 meg. There is a lot of searching to do in the particle list of this size. We hope this adds to the titanium find.

On another note one of the crew was searching google while we were filming and found a reference to the SST having the first ever CRT tube in the dashboard.  It would make sense that the chassis for that CRT might be out of titanium. Fertile ground.......

Tom Kaye

Some types of titanium are also used in the paint for high speed aircraft and space craft.  Further, I understand that titanium can also be found in foods.

Everyone is assuming the tie and Cooper shared life together. That the tie was Cooper's tie and particles on the tie document Cooper's life. But, what if the tie came out of a scrap bin at a recycling center?  Gray is attacking Cooper's appearance and description saying that Gregory's description is accurate and Cooper looked 'disheveled'.  Maybe he spent the night before the hijacking in the alley around the corner from the recycling center? Because there is literally nothing that ties the tie to Cooper so far, except for Tom's assumption.  :))
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on January 11, 2017, 11:27:38 PM
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I doubt you would get particles all over you from installing a tube screen..manufacturing, yes...

These particles are "inside" the crt - perhaps exposed at a recycling center .... in Ghana!
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on January 11, 2017, 11:28:27 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxQS58t39_U
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Robert99 on January 11, 2017, 11:30:58 PM
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I doubt you would get particles all over you from installing a tube screen..manufacturing, yes...

These particles are "inside" the crt - perhaps at a recycling center.

As an electrical engineer, perhaps Sailshaw has information as to what Boeing was doing with CRTs in 1971. 
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on January 11, 2017, 11:36:28 PM
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Well I thought Josh and crew did a pretty good job! Congrats to everyone on this forum that had a chance to voice their ideas.

I have to get my ISP to upload the full list of particles because the Excel file is about 40 meg. There is a lot of searching to do in the particle list of this size. We hope this adds to the titanium find.

On another note one of the crew was searching google while we were filming and found a reference to the SST having the first ever CRT tube in the dashboard.  It would make sense that the chassis for that CRT might be out of titanium. Fertile ground.......

Tom Kaye

Some types of titanium are also used in the paint for high speed aircraft and space craft.  Further, I understand that titanium can also be found in foods.

Everyone is assuming the tie and Cooper shared life together. That the tie was Cooper's tie and particles on the tie document Cooper's life. But, what if the tie came out of a scrap bin at a recycling center?  Gray is attacking Cooper's appearance and description saying that Gregory's description is accurate and Cooper looked 'disheveled'.  Maybe he spent the night before the hijacking in the alley around the corner from the recycling center? Because there is literally nothing that ties the tie to Cooper so far, except for Tom's assumption.  :))


what I think Gray is doing, is what many do. they rely too much on passenger descriptions. I don't think it was a point to hide that certain description as much as they used it for weight, which didn't weight in very well on the conclusion of Cooper's description.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on January 11, 2017, 11:40:15 PM
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I doubt you would get particles all over you from installing a tube screen..manufacturing, yes...

These particles are "inside" the crt - perhaps at a recycling center.

As an electrical engineer, perhaps Sailshaw has information as to what Boeing was doing with CRTs in 1971.

I would suspect that the CRT's would be pre manufactured and just wouldn't get particles all over the place.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on January 11, 2017, 11:49:42 PM
RCA testing engineer....from a video clip "how it's made TV's back in the day"
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on January 12, 2017, 12:00:54 AM
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Hello Everyone!

Airing tonight:  D.B.Cooper episode of EXPEDITION UNKNOWN!

Back this summer I reached out to a lot of you for help with a D.B.Cooper episode of EXPEDITION UNKNOWN on the Travel Channel.  I was impressed by the depth of knowledge of everyone on this site and grateful for everyone's generosity.  I'm happy to announce that the episode debuts this evening on the Travel Channel at 9pm.  I want to again thank everyone on here who ever answered an email or a phone call from me or or co-workers.  Specific thanks to members here: Shutter, Bruce Smith, Robert99, Georger, Meyer Louie, & Mark Meltzer (Mark's on here, I think, yes?).

I hope you all enjoy the show. And just remember, anything that you like, I'm totally responsible for (with all your help), and anything you don't–it was the Network!

Thanks again to a great community!


-Amanda Marks

Travel Channel Production:

I thought it was generally well done and entertaining. What was the final result of lab analysis on the metal ring found at Tina Bar?

The Greg Hall Theory filled in the gap where all Cooper documentaries stall; at the jump. But, Cooper jumping near Reno does not explain money at Tina Bar, or did I miss that? Nope – I didn’t miss anything but this illustrates the problem. But is this possible and leaves no physical evidence in the cockpit? No swoosh, no bump, no oscillations, no blinking of door or stairs light … just a clean exit without any trace whatsoever like in the X-Files … near Reno?  Cooper letter of thanks sent to Reno the next day. This means the FBI has been withholding vital facts and lying to us all along.

New particles:  But is the tie Coopers? I do not mean: ‘did Cooper wear the tie during the hijacking?’. What I mean is ‘Was the tie part of Cooper’s actual life, for a week, a month, a lifetime wherever he went and lived’?  Answer: I dunno. And neither does anyone else I know of, but we can play like it does – that should consume another 40- years of press conferences and tv appearances.

Appearance:  What did Cooper look like? Neat well dressed or disheveled? Who is right and who is wrong? The guy with all of the FBI files is right by fiat! He’s always right. Which means I have been wasting my life for eight long years! But I really wonder what Cooper looked like? A lost Cocker Spaniel or Donald Trump? Somebody very clearly didn'tt have his or her shit together and we are expecting total morons to give us conflicting opinions about what a camel looks like - in the cabin of an airplane where all of those round lines create optical illusions of grandure in particle analysis! Robert Blevins is therefore correct! Cooper could be anyone! Did Kenny repair CRT's and SST's in his spare time using a blow torch and a hand saw?    :))
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Robert99 on January 12, 2017, 12:07:33 AM
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Hello Everyone!

Airing tonight:  D.B.Cooper episode of EXPEDITION UNKNOWN!

Back this summer I reached out to a lot of you for help with a D.B.Cooper episode of EXPEDITION UNKNOWN on the Travel Channel.  I was impressed by the depth of knowledge of everyone on this site and grateful for everyone's generosity.  I'm happy to announce that the episode debuts this evening on the Travel Channel at 9pm.  I want to again thank everyone on here who ever answered an email or a phone call from me or or co-workers.  Specific thanks to members here: Shutter, Bruce Smith, Robert99, Georger, Meyer Louie, & Mark Meltzer (Mark's on here, I think, yes?).

I hope you all enjoy the show. And just remember, anything that you like, I'm totally responsible for (with all your help), and anything you don't–it was the Network!

Thanks again to a great community!


-Amanda Marks

Travel Channel Production:

I thought it was generally well done and entertaining. What was the final result of lab analysis on the metal ring found at Tina Bar?

The Greg Hall Theory filled in the gap where all Cooper documentaries stall; at the jump. But, Cooper jumping near Reno does not explain money at Tina Bar, or did I miss that? Nope – I didn’t miss anything but this illustrates the problem. But is this possible and leaves no physical evidence in the cockpit? No swoosh, no bump, no oscillations, no blinking of door or stairs light … just a clean exit without any trace whatsoever like in the X-Files … near Reno?  Cooper letter of thanks sent to Reno the next day. This means the FBI has been withholding vital facts and lying to us all along.

New particles:  But is the tie Coopers? I do not mean: ‘did Cooper wear the tie during the hijacking?’. What I mean is ‘Was the tie part of Cooper’s actual life, for a week, a month, a lifetime wherever he went and lived’?  Answer: I dunno. And neither does anyone else I know of, but we can play like it does – that should consume another 40- years of press conferences and tv appearances.

Appearance:  What did Cooper look like? Neat well dressed or disheveled? Who is right and who is wrong? The guy with all of the FBI files is right by fiat! He’s always right. Which means I have been wasting my life for eight long years! But I really wonder what Cooper looked like? A lost Cocker Spaniel or Donald Trump?

I also enjoyed the program, especially the parachute jump by Josh Gates.  His reaction was typical of most people making their first jump.  If Gates has the risk-taking gene (or "Warrior Gene"), then he is probably already shopping for his own parachute rig.  And 377 is probably advising him on the subject. ;D
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on January 12, 2017, 12:09:32 AM
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Hello Everyone!

Airing tonight:  D.B.Cooper episode of EXPEDITION UNKNOWN!

Back this summer I reached out to a lot of you for help with a D.B.Cooper episode of EXPEDITION UNKNOWN on the Travel Channel.  I was impressed by the depth of knowledge of everyone on this site and grateful for everyone's generosity.  I'm happy to announce that the episode debuts this evening on the Travel Channel at 9pm.  I want to again thank everyone on here who ever answered an email or a phone call from me or or co-workers.  Specific thanks to members here: Shutter, Bruce Smith, Robert99, Georger, Meyer Louie, & Mark Meltzer (Mark's on here, I think, yes?).

I hope you all enjoy the show. And just remember, anything that you like, I'm totally responsible for (with all your help), and anything you don't–it was the Network!

Thanks again to a great community!


-Amanda Marks

Travel Channel Production:

I thought it was generally well done and entertaining. What was the final result of lab analysis on the metal ring found at Tina Bar?

The Greg Hall Theory filled in the gap where all Cooper documentaries stall; at the jump. But, Cooper jumping near Reno does not explain money at Tina Bar, or did I miss that? Nope – I didn’t miss anything but this illustrates the problem. But is this possible and leaves no physical evidence in the cockpit? No swoosh, no bump, no oscillations, no blinking of door or stairs light … just a clean exit without any trace whatsoever like in the X-Files … near Reno?  Cooper letter of thanks sent to Reno the next day. This means the FBI has been withholding vital facts and lying to us all along.

New particles:  But is the tie Coopers? I do not mean: ‘did Cooper wear the tie during the hijacking?’. What I mean is ‘Was the tie part of Cooper’s actual life, for a week, a month, a lifetime wherever he went and lived’?  Answer: I dunno. And neither does anyone else I know of, but we can play like it does – that should consume another 40- years of press conferences and tv appearances.

Appearance:  What did Cooper look like? Neat well dressed or disheveled? Who is right and who is wrong? The guy with all of the FBI files is right by fiat! He’s always right. Which means I have been wasting my life for eight long years! But I really wonder what Cooper looked like? A lost Cocker Spaniel or Donald Trump?

I also enjoyed the program, especially the parachute jump by Josh Gates.  His reaction was typical of most people making their first jump.  If Gates has the risk-taking gene (or "Warrior Gene"), then he is probably already shopping for his own parachute rig.  And 377 is probably advising him on the subject. ;D

His schedule must defy belief - he did a good job. I liked you guys out there at Tina Bar. Congrats!

Did analysis on the found metal ring ever come back?
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Robert99 on January 12, 2017, 12:16:15 AM
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Hello Everyone!

Airing tonight:  D.B.Cooper episode of EXPEDITION UNKNOWN!

Back this summer I reached out to a lot of you for help with a D.B.Cooper episode of EXPEDITION UNKNOWN on the Travel Channel.  I was impressed by the depth of knowledge of everyone on this site and grateful for everyone's generosity.  I'm happy to announce that the episode debuts this evening on the Travel Channel at 9pm.  I want to again thank everyone on here who ever answered an email or a phone call from me or or co-workers.  Specific thanks to members here: Shutter, Bruce Smith, Robert99, Georger, Meyer Louie, & Mark Meltzer (Mark's on here, I think, yes?).

I hope you all enjoy the show. And just remember, anything that you like, I'm totally responsible for (with all your help), and anything you don't–it was the Network!

Thanks again to a great community!


-Amanda Marks

Travel Channel Production:

I thought it was generally well done and entertaining. What was the final result of lab analysis on the metal ring found at Tina Bar?

The Greg Hall Theory filled in the gap where all Cooper documentaries stall; at the jump. But, Cooper jumping near Reno does not explain money at Tina Bar, or did I miss that? Nope – I didn’t miss anything but this illustrates the problem. But is this possible and leaves no physical evidence in the cockpit? No swoosh, no bump, no oscillations, no blinking of door or stairs light … just a clean exit without any trace whatsoever like in the X-Files … near Reno?  Cooper letter of thanks sent to Reno the next day. This means the FBI has been withholding vital facts and lying to us all along.

New particles:  But is the tie Coopers? I do not mean: ‘did Cooper wear the tie during the hijacking?’. What I mean is ‘Was the tie part of Cooper’s actual life, for a week, a month, a lifetime wherever he went and lived’?  Answer: I dunno. And neither does anyone else I know of, but we can play like it does – that should consume another 40- years of press conferences and tv appearances.

Appearance:  What did Cooper look like? Neat well dressed or disheveled? Who is right and who is wrong? The guy with all of the FBI files is right by fiat! He’s always right. Which means I have been wasting my life for eight long years! But I really wonder what Cooper looked like? A lost Cocker Spaniel or Donald Trump?

I also enjoyed the program, especially the parachute jump by Josh Gates.  His reaction was typical of most people making their first jump.  If Gates has the risk-taking gene (or "Warrior Gene"), then he is probably already shopping for his own parachute rig.  And 377 is probably advising him on the subject. ;D

His schedule must defy belief - he did a good job. I liked you guys out there at Tina Bar. Congrats!

Did analysis on the found metal ring ever come back?

I am not aware of any analytical results for that ring.  My guess at the time was that it had something to do with the canvas covers on the barges that haul grain and fruits from upriver to Astoria or wherever.  The break was very shiny and clean.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on January 12, 2017, 12:42:28 AM
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Hello Everyone!

Airing tonight:  D.B.Cooper episode of EXPEDITION UNKNOWN!

Back this summer I reached out to a lot of you for help with a D.B.Cooper episode of EXPEDITION UNKNOWN on the Travel Channel.  I was impressed by the depth of knowledge of everyone on this site and grateful for everyone's generosity.  I'm happy to announce that the episode debuts this evening on the Travel Channel at 9pm.  I want to again thank everyone on here who ever answered an email or a phone call from me or or co-workers.  Specific thanks to members here: Shutter, Bruce Smith, Robert99, Georger, Meyer Louie, & Mark Meltzer (Mark's on here, I think, yes?).

I hope you all enjoy the show. And just remember, anything that you like, I'm totally responsible for (with all your help), and anything you don't–it was the Network!

Thanks again to a great community!


-Amanda Marks

Travel Channel Production:

I thought it was generally well done and entertaining. What was the final result of lab analysis on the metal ring found at Tina Bar?

The Greg Hall Theory filled in the gap where all Cooper documentaries stall; at the jump. But, Cooper jumping near Reno does not explain money at Tina Bar, or did I miss that? Nope – I didn’t miss anything but this illustrates the problem. But is this possible and leaves no physical evidence in the cockpit? No swoosh, no bump, no oscillations, no blinking of door or stairs light … just a clean exit without any trace whatsoever like in the X-Files … near Reno?  Cooper letter of thanks sent to Reno the next day. This means the FBI has been withholding vital facts and lying to us all along.

New particles:  But is the tie Coopers? I do not mean: ‘did Cooper wear the tie during the hijacking?’. What I mean is ‘Was the tie part of Cooper’s actual life, for a week, a month, a lifetime wherever he went and lived’?  Answer: I dunno. And neither does anyone else I know of, but we can play like it does – that should consume another 40- years of press conferences and tv appearances.

Appearance:  What did Cooper look like? Neat well dressed or disheveled? Who is right and who is wrong? The guy with all of the FBI files is right by fiat! He’s always right. Which means I have been wasting my life for eight long years! But I really wonder what Cooper looked like? A lost Cocker Spaniel or Donald Trump?

I also enjoyed the program, especially the parachute jump by Josh Gates.  His reaction was typical of most people making their first jump.  If Gates has the risk-taking gene (or "Warrior Gene"), then he is probably already shopping for his own parachute rig.  And 377 is probably advising him on the subject. ;D

His schedule must defy belief - he did a good job. I liked you guys out there at Tina Bar. Congrats!

Did analysis on the found metal ring ever come back?

I am not aware of any analytical results for that ring.  My guess at the time was that it had something to do with the canvas covers on the barges that haul grain and fruits from upriver to Astoria or wherever.  The break was very shiny and clean.

What do you make of the Greg Hall theory?
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on January 12, 2017, 03:11:02 AM
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Kaye has a partial list of the chemicals Kaye found:

http://www.citizensleuths.com/mccrone1.html

What strikes me about this list plus the previous list, along with free floating Yttrium particles now, is the status of Cooper's health if you assume the tie represents a slice of Cooper's actual life. People die or form chronic conditions with these kinds of exposures. There would have been a number of industries and contexts in which these kinds of exposures were occurring in the 70's - all with a significant rate of occupational disease.

His comments to Flo and Tina may indicate he was focused on the future, ie. 'going to a place you would like'. His ransom request was modest, just enough to live south of the border (in Mexico). If his grudge was related to a health condition then his motive was perhaps personal and related to finishing his life out in a place and condition he could accept.

Would an autopsy show these particles in Cooper's lungs and liver? Tom's new list fully supplements his previous list of rare metals and the health risks of exposure to these kinds of substances is fully documented out of the 1970s.. That was one of my reactions to Tom's first list and it's even stronger now? The question may be not where did Cooper go to live, but where did Cooper go to die more comfortably?   :-\     

See:   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yttrium
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on January 12, 2017, 07:33:57 AM
Should be able to watch the show here..


http://yourvideohost.com/1qv16s3jvhyj
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: sailshaw on January 12, 2017, 10:03:40 AM
Robert99  You say:  "As an electrical engineer, perhaps Sailshaw has information as to what Boeing was doing with CRTs in 1971."

I say:  DB might have been just having fun breaking a CRT from an old TV to be sent to the dump and the particles on the inside of the CRT floated to his tie. That is not how we discarded CRT's at Boeing we had a proper safe procedure.

Did anyone catch the flaw in the Travel channel program last night about "DB did not chose the right chute theory"? I talked with Norm Hayden who supplied the two "Back Chutes" and he said he purchased the two chutes at the same time from a surplus place on Marginal Way in Seattle and the two chutes were exactly the same. The chutes were packed in two different containers (one a military container and the other a sports container). In talking with 377 he felt DB picked the best container (military) to jump with as it could better stand the high speed opening, so the conclusion 377 made was DB knew what de was doing and selected the best chute/container. Not to confuse but the two exactly same chutes might have been of two different diameters. Bruce might know more about that issue as he researched the parachute and wrote about it in his good book. The travel channel program was fun to watch even though it had some errors and why did Tom Kaye not mention the titanium/aluminum/machined particles that his Sleuth team found on the DB tie?

Bob Sailshaw
sailshaw00@gmail.com
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Robert99 on January 12, 2017, 11:07:49 AM
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Hello Everyone!

Airing tonight:  D.B.Cooper episode of EXPEDITION UNKNOWN!

Back this summer I reached out to a lot of you for help with a D.B.Cooper episode of EXPEDITION UNKNOWN on the Travel Channel.  I was impressed by the depth of knowledge of everyone on this site and grateful for everyone's generosity.  I'm happy to announce that the episode debuts this evening on the Travel Channel at 9pm.  I want to again thank everyone on here who ever answered an email or a phone call from me or or co-workers.  Specific thanks to members here: Shutter, Bruce Smith, Robert99, Georger, Meyer Louie, & Mark Meltzer (Mark's on here, I think, yes?).

I hope you all enjoy the show. And just remember, anything that you like, I'm totally responsible for (with all your help), and anything you don't–it was the Network!

Thanks again to a great community!


-Amanda Marks

Travel Channel Production:

I thought it was generally well done and entertaining. What was the final result of lab analysis on the metal ring found at Tina Bar?

The Greg Hall Theory filled in the gap where all Cooper documentaries stall; at the jump. But, Cooper jumping near Reno does not explain money at Tina Bar, or did I miss that? Nope – I didn’t miss anything but this illustrates the problem. But is this possible and leaves no physical evidence in the cockpit? No swoosh, no bump, no oscillations, no blinking of door or stairs light … just a clean exit without any trace whatsoever like in the X-Files … near Reno?  Cooper letter of thanks sent to Reno the next day. This means the FBI has been withholding vital facts and lying to us all along.

New particles:  But is the tie Coopers? I do not mean: ‘did Cooper wear the tie during the hijacking?’. What I mean is ‘Was the tie part of Cooper’s actual life, for a week, a month, a lifetime wherever he went and lived’?  Answer: I dunno. And neither does anyone else I know of, but we can play like it does – that should consume another 40- years of press conferences and tv appearances.

Appearance:  What did Cooper look like? Neat well dressed or disheveled? Who is right and who is wrong? The guy with all of the FBI files is right by fiat! He’s always right. Which means I have been wasting my life for eight long years! But I really wonder what Cooper looked like? A lost Cocker Spaniel or Donald Trump?

I also enjoyed the program, especially the parachute jump by Josh Gates.  His reaction was typical of most people making their first jump.  If Gates has the risk-taking gene (or "Warrior Gene"), then he is probably already shopping for his own parachute rig.  And 377 is probably advising him on the subject. ;D

His schedule must defy belief - he did a good job. I liked you guys out there at Tina Bar. Congrats!

Did analysis on the found metal ring ever come back?

I am not aware of any analytical results for that ring.  My guess at the time was that it had something to do with the canvas covers on the barges that haul grain and fruits from upriver to Astoria or wherever.  The break was very shiny and clean.

What do you make of the Greg Hall theory?

Not a chance.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on January 12, 2017, 01:12:26 PM
Would this tie have passed occupational health & safety tests for a worker at Hanford?   :-\

I guess it would have since it doesn't 'glow in the dark' ?  >:D :))

Maybe Cooper is on some list of people denied benefits somewhere?  ;) No Agent Orange?
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Parrotheadvol on January 12, 2017, 01:20:16 PM
I enjoyed the show, except for the Greg Hall theory and the jump. I'm assuming he thinks Tena Bar was a plant? That whole part of the show could have been used on something more important, imo.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on January 12, 2017, 01:28:35 PM
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I enjoyed the show, except for the Greg Hall theory and the jump. I'm assuming he thinks Tena Bar was a plant? That whole part of the show could have been used on something more important, imo.

This is why I said the program stalled at the same point all Cooper plots stall - at the jump and money find. The Hall theory fills the void; just as the Washougal theory fills a void when all other explanations fall into that rabbit hole. This is why I always look for another way into the bubble; and some people think the particles on the tie are next best way in ... at least it's evidence of something. It's a puzzle leading to an obsession with endless theory making  :))    Sluggo called this the "missing link". Then like the KIRO video, even the cigarette butts go missing and are lost?

If the money could only talk!  >:D

 
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: 377 on January 12, 2017, 05:10:21 PM
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Well I thought Josh and crew did a pretty good job! Congrats to everyone on this forum that had a chance to voice their ideas.

I have to get my ISP to upload the full list of particles because the Excel file is about 40 meg. There is a lot of searching to do in the particle list of this size. We hope this adds to the titanium find.

On another note one of the crew was searching google while we were filming and found a reference to the SST having the first ever CRT tube in the dashboard.  It would make sense that the chassis for that CRT might be out of titanium. Fertile ground.......


Tom Kaye

I think the chassis and mounting rails for panel avionics (incl a CRT display) would likely be aluminum not titanium even in the SST.  The specs don't require extreme heat resistance or strength, and the weight savings probably wouldn't justify the cost. Still, I remain intrigued by the tie metals that TK and Al found: unalloyed Ti, Bismuth, turned Al shavings. It has to be a signature of some particular industry or product.

377
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: boneman on January 12, 2017, 05:54:01 PM
Also, doesn't the Greg Hall theory imply that Cooper had no set plan for the jump location previous to the hijacking?  The decision to go to Reno wasn't made until just prior to takeoff in Seattle, but it seemed like Hall was saying he chose to jump there all along (and fool them) because it was an easy landing.  How did he know he would be at Reno if he was requesting to go to Mexico in the first place?  Did he just change his planned jump location on the fly?

Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on January 12, 2017, 06:05:55 PM
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I enjoyed the show, except for the Greg Hall theory and the jump. I'm assuming he thinks Tena Bar was a plant? That whole part of the show could have been used on something more important, imo.

I emailed him a while back. I can't remember his response, but he didn't seem to understand there were two different indications with the stairs..one being the oscillation, and the other the pressure bump. he wouldn't fool them jumping up and down on the stairs.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on January 12, 2017, 11:20:29 PM
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Also, doesn't the Greg Hall theory imply that Cooper had no set plan for the jump location previous to the hijacking?  The decision to go to Reno wasn't made until just prior to takeoff in Seattle, but it seemed like Hall was saying he chose to jump there all along (and fool them) because it was an easy landing.  How did he know he would be at Reno if he was requesting to go to Mexico in the first place?  Did he just change his planned jump location on the fly?

good questions!  :)) :)) :))
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Parrotheadvol on January 13, 2017, 12:09:55 AM
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Also, doesn't the Greg Hall theory imply that Cooper had no set plan for the jump location previous to the hijacking?  The decision to go to Reno wasn't made until just prior to takeoff in Seattle, but it seemed like Hall was saying he chose to jump there all along (and fool them) because it was an easy landing.  How did he know he would be at Reno if he was requesting to go to Mexico in the first place?  Did he just change his planned jump location on the fly?

good questions!  :)) :)) :))

Great Questions!!
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: MarkBennett on January 13, 2017, 10:30:07 AM
I finally got around to watching this, and I agree there was a leap (no pun intended) to a conclusion.  Even if, they could show Cooper bounced on the stairs to throw off the search area, there is nothing that shows he jumped just outside of Reno.  He could have jumped five minutes later, ten minutes later, any time.  That part of the show was pure speculation.

The most interesting part was the chemicals on the tie.  Again, we don't know someone else owned the tie at the time those chemicals got on the tie, but it gives a new place to look.

And, I thought Robert99 spoke just fine.  Why did they think he needed subtitles?   ;D
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on January 13, 2017, 04:05:05 PM
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I finally got around to watching this, and I agree there was a leap (no pun intended) to a conclusion.  Even if, they could show Cooper bounced on the stairs to throw off the search area, there is nothing that shows he jumped just outside of Reno.  He could have jumped five minutes later, ten minutes later, any time.  That part of the show was pure speculation.

The most interesting part was the chemicals on the tie.  Again, we don't know someone else owned the tie at the time those chemicals got on the tie, but it gives a new place to look.

And, I thought Robert99 spoke just fine.  Why did they think he needed subtitles?   ;D

agree with all.

the stairs never opened again after the stair light went off ... no physical artifacts of a jump later. Actually Hall's strongest point is a letter sent to a Reno newspaper from nearby just after the hijacking but that could have been anybody/anything/any idiot.

All I can say about this tie is Im glad its not mine and doesn't represent my life exposures to toxic and cancer causing substances! Good grief. The only thing that hasn't turned up on that death-tie is asbestos and ebola! Maybe that tie belonged to the KGB? Did Tom check it for diatoms and arsenic?  :)) >:D

Maybe Cooper was into alchemy or pottery making?  :))
 
ps*  Did Tom take any dna swabs of the tie?  Any drug tests?  Any prior epidemiological workup of the tie that's not being mentioned? It never hurts to ask -
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on January 13, 2017, 05:53:46 PM
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And, I thought Robert99 spoke just fine.  Why did they think he needed subtitles?   ;D


I'm sure 99 spoke just fine, too. But an interesting "insider's view" is that during the filming the TC crew was very concerned about the soft-spoken nature of Robert's delivery. Coupled with that was an over-arching concern for the ambient noise coming from the busy boat traffic on the Columbia during a HOT Sunday afternoon. We had to suspend filming on numerous occasions due to the noise from boat motors.

In fact, at one point we were all concerned that Robert's words were drowned out by one boat roaring past, but a sound check deemed it all okay, which I personally found surprising and considered it a relief.

Sub-titles? I haven't seen the show, yet, but I'm astonished that the TC felt the need to use them.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on January 13, 2017, 06:00:15 PM
I posted the link...
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: MarkBennett on January 13, 2017, 06:13:12 PM
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And, I thought Robert99 spoke just fine.  Why did they think he needed subtitles?   ;D


I'm sure 99 spoke just fine, too. But an interesting "insider's view" is that during the filming the TC crew was very concerned about the soft-spoken nature of Robert's delivery. Coupled with that was an over-arching concern for the ambient noise coming from the busy boat traffic on the Columbia during a HOT Sunday afternoon. We had to suspend filming on numerous occasions due to the noise from boat motors.

In fact, at one point we were all concerned that Robert's words were drowned out by one boat roaring past, but a sound check deemed it all okay, which I personally found surprising and considered it a relief.

Sub-titles? I haven't seen the show, yet, but I'm astonished that the TC felt the need to use them.

It wasn't really a sub-title, they just emphasized what he said on the screen.  It probably was a dual purpose.

There were a couple of continuity errors -- one I remember was they were doing a fast showing of images of around Portland.  One of the things they showed was a picture of the troll on an underpass.  That's in Seattle, unless Portland has one, too.

One other thing...they were showing someone dressed up as D.B. Cooper that the host pretended to steal a bag from.  He looked like Grey Cop.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Robert99 on January 13, 2017, 06:32:37 PM
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And, I thought Robert99 spoke just fine.  Why did they think he needed subtitles?   ;D


I'm sure 99 spoke just fine, too. But an interesting "insider's view" is that during the filming the TC crew was very concerned about the soft-spoken nature of Robert's delivery. Coupled with that was an over-arching concern for the ambient noise coming from the busy boat traffic on the Columbia during a HOT Sunday afternoon. We had to suspend filming on numerous occasions due to the noise from boat motors.

In fact, at one point we were all concerned that Robert's words were drowned out by one boat roaring past, but a sound check deemed it all okay, which I personally found surprising and considered it a relief.

Sub-titles? I haven't seen the show, yet, but I'm astonished that the TC felt the need to use them.

It wasn't really a sub-title, they just emphasized what he said on the screen.  It probably was a dual purpose.

There were a couple of continuity errors -- one I remember was they were doing a fast showing of images of around Portland.  One of the things they showed was a picture of the troll on an underpass.  That's in Seattle, unless Portland has one, too.

One other thing...they were showing someone dressed up as D.B. Cooper that the host pretended to steal a bag from.  He looked like Grey Cop.

I e-mailed both Amanda and Caylie after the show that I thought it was a good program and enjoyed it.  But after further reflection, there is one thing I am slightly disappointed about.  A duck made it a point to follow me around during my lone walks up the beach.  Unfortunately, the duck did not make it into the program.  Maybe it will turn up later in one of the out-takes. :)
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on January 13, 2017, 07:06:30 PM
Ah, yes, the duck!

Demand a re-shoot! Or at least a re-edit...
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on January 13, 2017, 07:08:03 PM
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...they were showing someone dressed up as D.B. Cooper that the host pretended to steal a bag from.  He looked like Grey Cop.


Ah, yes, Grey Cop. Josh mentioned that he had encountered The Gray One at Ariel...
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Tom Kaye on January 14, 2017, 01:57:08 AM
The McCrone data is now available on our website FYI.  Hope you guys can find something interesting in it.
http://citizensleuths.com/mccrone1.html

Tom Kaye
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on January 14, 2017, 02:33:19 AM
Much appreciated, Tom. Thanks.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: MeyerLouie on January 14, 2017, 05:04:09 AM
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And, I thought Robert99 spoke just fine.  Why did they think he needed subtitles?   ;D


I'm sure 99 spoke just fine, too. But an interesting "insider's view" is that during the filming the TC crew was very concerned about the soft-spoken nature of Robert's delivery. Coupled with that was an over-arching concern for the ambient noise coming from the busy boat traffic on the Columbia during a HOT Sunday afternoon. We had to suspend filming on numerous occasions due to the noise from boat motors.

In fact, at one point we were all concerned that Robert's words were drowned out by one boat roaring past, but a sound check deemed it all okay, which I personally found surprising and considered it a relief.

Sub-titles? I haven't seen the show, yet, but I'm astonished that the TC felt the need to use them.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Bruce is correct about the boat traffic noise that hot sunny day.  The noise was pretty intense at times -- really loud.  I think one of the directors even asked me a time or two to speak a little louder.  Robert was soft spoken, and I agree, it was real easy to clearly hear and understand what he was saying.  I think the Travel Channel just wanted to be sure he was going to be heard.  There was more going on behind the scenes, at that time, than you think -- way more.  It's harder than you think -- the takes, and re-takes, and more re-takes.  Lots of hard work -- crew, volunteers, Cooper people all running around in every direction all day long.  Know that the producer, directors, and Josh himself were really, really nice people -- they were some of the nicest, most gracious, accommodating people you will ever find. They bent over backwards to make us comfortable and to get it right.  They take whatever they get and make it work.  It was amazing to watch them do their thing.
 
The show took a drastic turn with the skydiving segment.  That caught me off guard, I didn't see that coming.  My first thought when I watched that part of the program, and as Georger pointed out earlier -- how does the Reno Dropzone Theory reconcile with the money find at Tina Bar?  Answer: It doesn't.  Josh Gates (who is the star of the show and everybody's boss -- he runs it all, from beginning to end) took creative license here, didn't he?  It's not reasonable for Cooper to take a Washingon state dropzone over a cushy landing north of Reno?  Hmmm....

I got a kick out of the Ariel Party shoot.  I got up to sing with that band -- they missed a few chords, no problem, it was still lots of fun.  Great crowd, great barbecue, I got to meet the Travel Channel crew that afternoon.  The auction was a kick too, I bought a painting from Dona's store.  I know you hate to hear it -- Blevins -- he was there, and he did alright.

The tie and Tom Kaye -- interesting findings -- all those rare elements -- but as I've stated before, I have very little faith in the tie evidence -- so many hands touched it, so much time passed, someone else could have owned it -- but as Mark Bennett said, it gives us something new to think about.

As Georger said, the show was done well and it was very entertaining.  I agree.  I have had friends from all over the country email, call, or facebook me and tell me they saw the show.  Renewed interest in the case just might be coming soon....

Meyer



Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: MeyerLouie on January 14, 2017, 06:32:26 AM
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Hello Everyone!

Airing tonight:  D.B.Cooper episode of EXPEDITION UNKNOWN!

Back this summer I reached out to a lot of you for help with a D.B.Cooper episode of EXPEDITION UNKNOWN on the Travel Channel.  I was impressed by the depth of knowledge of everyone on this site and grateful for everyone's generosity.  I'm happy to announce that the episode debuts this evening on the Travel Channel at 9pm.  I want to again thank everyone on here who ever answered an email or a phone call from me or or co-workers.  Specific thanks to members here: Shutter, Bruce Smith, Robert99, Georger, Meyer Louie, & Mark Meltzer (Mark's on here, I think, yes?).

I hope you all enjoy the show. And just remember, anything that you like, I'm totally responsible for (with all your help), and anything you don't–it was the Network!

Thanks again to a great community!


-Amanda Marks

Travel Channel Production:

I thought it was generally well done and entertaining. What was the final result of lab analysis on the metal ring found at Tina Bar?

The Greg Hall Theory filled in the gap where all Cooper documentaries stall; at the jump. But, Cooper jumping near Reno does not explain money at Tina Bar, or did I miss that? Nope – I didn’t miss anything but this illustrates the problem. But is this possible and leaves no physical evidence in the cockpit? No swoosh, no bump, no oscillations, no blinking of door or stairs light … just a clean exit without any trace whatsoever like in the X-Files … near Reno?  Cooper letter of thanks sent to Reno the next day. This means the FBI has been withholding vital facts and lying to us all along.

New particles:  But is the tie Coopers? I do not mean: ‘did Cooper wear the tie during the hijacking?’. What I mean is ‘Was the tie part of Cooper’s actual life, for a week, a month, a lifetime wherever he went and lived’?  Answer: I dunno. And neither does anyone else I know of, but we can play like it does – that should consume another 40- years of press conferences and tv appearances.

Appearance:  What did Cooper look like? Neat well dressed or disheveled? Who is right and who is wrong? The guy with all of the FBI files is right by fiat! He’s always right. Which means I have been wasting my life for eight long years! But I really wonder what Cooper looked like? A lost Cocker Spaniel or Donald Trump? Somebody very clearly didn'tt have his or her shit together and we are expecting total morons to give us conflicting opinions about what a camel looks like - in the cabin of an airplane where all of those round lines create optical illusions of grandure in particle analysis! Robert Blevins is therefore correct! Cooper could be anyone! Did Kenny repair CRT's and SST's in his spare time using a blow torch and a hand saw?    :))

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

To respond to your question, Georger: The metal ring that Josh handed to me, in the footage toward the end of the Tina Bar shoot, when we were all looking at it, and I said "it could be an accessory from the parachute"?  What I said right after that -- and it got cut from the show -- was "I'll turn that [the metal ring] over to the expert -- the scientist."  At that time, I handed it over to you, Robert.  I'm wondering if Josh took it back -- I seem to remember him wanting to look at it again.   I lost track of that metal ring, I assumed either you, Robert, or Josh had it.

Georger makes some good points, he totally shoots holes in the "creative license" the show took in terms of assumptions and implications made.  Is that really what Cooper looked like? A scrawny, brown-haired, thin-haired, scraggly-looking guy in desperate need of a haircut?
 
Also, at the very beginning, when Josh was talking to Geoffrey Gray, Gray makes a big deal about the description the guy sitting kitty-corner from Cooper gave.  We saw the actual FBI document (which only GG had access too ----- woooooooh) that provided this information of Mitchell's description of Cooper.  Why wasn't Tina Mucklow's description brought to light?  We got a lady who sat next to Cooper for several hours vs. a guy who was trying to hit on, and pick up, a cute stewardess.  Which description would I find more credible?  What do I know -- that's just me?

I talked earlier about the tie, I agree with Georger on this -- the connection between the tie and Cooper is pretty flimsy.  Speculation at best, but hobbyist Tom Kaye's other lab and Tom don't think so.  All them rare elements...but on a good note, as Mark Bennett said, it give us something to talk about now.  I could say more, but I think I've said enough....

Meyer
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Robert99 on January 14, 2017, 11:04:26 AM
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Hello Everyone!

Airing tonight:  D.B.Cooper episode of EXPEDITION UNKNOWN!

Back this summer I reached out to a lot of you for help with a D.B.Cooper episode of EXPEDITION UNKNOWN on the Travel Channel.  I was impressed by the depth of knowledge of everyone on this site and grateful for everyone's generosity.  I'm happy to announce that the episode debuts this evening on the Travel Channel at 9pm.  I want to again thank everyone on here who ever answered an email or a phone call from me or or co-workers.  Specific thanks to members here: Shutter, Bruce Smith, Robert99, Georger, Meyer Louie, & Mark Meltzer (Mark's on here, I think, yes?).

I hope you all enjoy the show. And just remember, anything that you like, I'm totally responsible for (with all your help), and anything you don't–it was the Network!

Thanks again to a great community!


-Amanda Marks

Travel Channel Production:

I thought it was generally well done and entertaining. What was the final result of lab analysis on the metal ring found at Tina Bar?

The Greg Hall Theory filled in the gap where all Cooper documentaries stall; at the jump. But, Cooper jumping near Reno does not explain money at Tina Bar, or did I miss that? Nope – I didn’t miss anything but this illustrates the problem. But is this possible and leaves no physical evidence in the cockpit? No swoosh, no bump, no oscillations, no blinking of door or stairs light … just a clean exit without any trace whatsoever like in the X-Files … near Reno?  Cooper letter of thanks sent to Reno the next day. This means the FBI has been withholding vital facts and lying to us all along.

New particles:  But is the tie Coopers? I do not mean: ‘did Cooper wear the tie during the hijacking?’. What I mean is ‘Was the tie part of Cooper’s actual life, for a week, a month, a lifetime wherever he went and lived’?  Answer: I dunno. And neither does anyone else I know of, but we can play like it does – that should consume another 40- years of press conferences and tv appearances.

Appearance:  What did Cooper look like? Neat well dressed or disheveled? Who is right and who is wrong? The guy with all of the FBI files is right by fiat! He’s always right. Which means I have been wasting my life for eight long years! But I really wonder what Cooper looked like? A lost Cocker Spaniel or Donald Trump? Somebody very clearly didn'tt have his or her shit together and we are expecting total morons to give us conflicting opinions about what a camel looks like - in the cabin of an airplane where all of those round lines create optical illusions of grandure in particle analysis! Robert Blevins is therefore correct! Cooper could be anyone! Did Kenny repair CRT's and SST's in his spare time using a blow torch and a hand saw?    :))

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

To respond to your question, Georger: The metal ring that Josh handed to me, in the footage toward the end of the Tina Bar shoot, when we were all looking at it, and I said "it could be an accessory from the parachute"?  What I said right after that -- and it got cut from the show -- was "I'll turn that [the metal ring] over to the expert -- the scientist."  At that time, I handed it over to you, Robert.  I'm wondering if Josh took it back -- I seem to remember him wanting to look at it again.   I lost track of that metal ring, I assumed either you, Robert, or Josh had it.

Georger makes some good points, he totally shoots holes in the "creative license" the show took in terms of assumptions and implications made.  Is that really what Cooper looked like? A scrawny, brown-haired, thin-haired, scraggly-looking guy in desperate need of a haircut?
 
Also, at the very beginning, when Josh was talking to Geoffrey Gray, Gray makes a big deal about the description the guy sitting kitty-corner from Cooper gave.  We saw the actual FBI document (which only GG had access too ----- woooooooh) that provided this information of Mitchell's description of Cooper.  Why wasn't Tina Mucklow's description brought to light?  We got a lady who sat next to Cooper for several hours vs. a guy who was trying to hit on, and pick up, a cute stewardess.  Which description would I find more credible?  What do I know -- that's just me?

I talked earlier about the tie, I agree with Georger on this -- the connection between the tie and Cooper is pretty flimsy.  Speculation at best, but hobbyist Tom Kaye's other lab and Tom don't think so.  All them rare elements...but on a good note, as Mark Bennett said, it give us something to talk about now.  I could say more, but I think I've said enough....

Meyer

Meyer,

The only time I got a good look at that ring was BEFORE Josh Gates taped his discussion of it.  I don't know what happened to it afterwards.  Maybe he kept it.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on January 14, 2017, 04:21:40 PM
Media Coverage of Tie Particles

It's growing. It was the lead story on Seattle's NBC outlet, KING 5, TV's broadcast last night.

http://www.king5.com/news/crime/new-evidence-was-db-cooper-boeing-employee/385924766

Tom did a great job, too, in his interview with reporter Chris Ingalls, who has been following the DBC story very closely for years.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on January 14, 2017, 05:01:17 PM
I believe he did a good job also, but I'm not sold on the SST thingy. the screens, or monitors would of been shipped in from the manufacture, so getting any particles would not occur. I install a lot of canopies, most I construct in the field so I do a lot of drilling which would cause shavings to be all over me. Now, if a canopy is shipped to us, and I install it as is. the only thing I will have on my clothing is dust from drilling into the concrete.

The question should be, where did they get the CRT screens from?

Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on January 14, 2017, 05:14:38 PM
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Media Coverage of Tie Particles

It's growing. It was the lead story on Seattle's NBC outlet, KING 5, TV's broadcast last night.

http://www.king5.com/news/crime/new-evidence-was-db-cooper-boeing-employee/385924766

Tom did a great job, too, in his interview with reporter Chris Ingalls, who has been following the DBC story very closely for years.

So you think the toxic tie cocktail represents a slice of Cooper's life? Did Ingalls say anything about the toxic nature of the particles? Or do we now just assume Cooper 'glowed in the dark'?   ;)

Didn't he come equipped with an antihistamine? Isn't that in the Transcripts?

If those particles were passively on the tie what was in the wearer's lungs and liver?  If we assume A don't we have to assume B? And C and D and E and F?  :))

ps* but alas, I know nothing will ever come of this or if it does it will be eight more years ... or never.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Robert99 on January 14, 2017, 06:38:06 PM
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Media Coverage of Tie Particles

It's growing. It was the lead story on Seattle's NBC outlet, KING 5, TV's broadcast last night.

http://www.king5.com/news/crime/new-evidence-was-db-cooper-boeing-employee/385924766

Tom did a great job, too, in his interview with reporter Chris Ingalls, who has been following the DBC story very closely for years.

So you think the toxic tie cocktail represents a slice of Cooper's life? Did Ingalls say anything about the toxic nature of the particles? Or do we now just assume Cooper 'glowed in the dark'?   ;)

Didn't he come equipped with an antihistamine? Isn't that in the Transcripts?

If those particles were passively on the tie what was in the wearer's lungs and liver?  If we assume A don't we have to assume B? And C and D and E and F?  :))

ps* but alas, I know nothing will ever come of this or if it does it will be eight more years ... or never.

I think the pills that Cooper said he had were something along the line of "speed" (or whatever) which is suppose to keep sleepy people awake and full of energy.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on January 14, 2017, 07:10:35 PM
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Media Coverage of Tie Particles

It's growing. It was the lead story on Seattle's NBC outlet, KING 5, TV's broadcast last night.

http://www.king5.com/news/crime/new-evidence-was-db-cooper-boeing-employee/385924766

Tom did a great job, too, in his interview with reporter Chris Ingalls, who has been following the DBC story very closely for years.

So you think the toxic tie cocktail represents a slice of Cooper's life? Did Ingalls say anything about the toxic nature of the particles? Or do we now just assume Cooper 'glowed in the dark'?   ;)

Didn't he come equipped with an antihistamine? Isn't that in the Transcripts?

If those particles were passively on the tie what was in the wearer's lungs and liver?  If we assume A don't we have to assume B? And C and D and E and F?  :))

ps* but alas, I know nothing will ever come of this or if it does it will be eight more years ... or never.

I think the pills that Cooper said he had were something along the line of "speed" (or whatever) which is suppose to keep sleepy people awake and full of energy.

which also work as an antihistamine - a cross over. Im rather interested in the pharmacology and biology that's on that tie if it was Cooper's. That could not only narrow the search for Cooper but go straight to motive -

This guy is in his forties to early fifties so 'he's had a life' by the standards of the time, and along with that a history including any medical issues occupational or otherwise. He said he wanted to "go to a place you would like' so he had something on his mind based on his life to that point. It's a little hard to glean that kind of information from atomic particles alone so I want to see the rest of the cocktail on that tie, if any.

Did Tom take any bio swabs?  I want to know if this guy has any regional or occupational diseases that are obvious with medications on the tie ?
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: 377 on January 14, 2017, 07:22:24 PM
From Snowmman.

"strontium sulfide (or maybe strontium sulfate or strontium chloride or strontium nitrate) is used in railroad/signal flares to get the red color in the flame"

Hmmmm...

377

Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on January 14, 2017, 07:24:21 PM
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From Snowmman.

"strontium sulfide (or maybe strontium sulfate or strontium chloride or strontium nitrate) is used in railroad/signal flares to get the red color in the flame"

Hmmmm...

377

yes - there's a whole bunch of stuff there that cuts occupationally ...  and product wise.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: 377 on January 14, 2017, 07:49:10 PM
per http://www.spiegl.org/rocket/flare/flare.html

What is in road flares?

Different companies use different compositons when manufacturing road flares, so it is impossible to give a specific answer for the flare in your hand.  However, they do tend to have similar compositions, and so a generalized answer is possible.
Examine the following table.  (percentages?)
 
 

Strontium nitrate   69   61   60   62   75   63   31   43
Potassium nitrate       15   23   15               
Potassium perchlorate   8               10       44   9
Sulfur   13   6   7   19   10   16       
Charcoal       5   2   4               
Sawdust   10               4           
Aluminum flake                       16       
Magnesium 50-100                                29
Red gum       13   7                   
Epoxy resin                           25   
Shellac                       5       
Dextrin           2                   
Parlon                               12
Source   "Railway"
Davis   "Railway"
Davis   "Railway"
Davis   "Railway"
Davis   "Railway"
Davis   "Wing tip"
Davis   "Low reside"
Conkling   McLain
Note that every composition contains strontium nitrate (Sr(NO3)2).  That is because the strontium is responsible for either a red or red-orange color.   However, strontium nitrate is not a great oxidizer - a mixture of Sr(NO3)2 and a fuel will hardly burn.   So a better oxidizer such as potassium perchlorate or potassium nitrate or an energetic fuel such as aluminum or magnesium is added to give the extra energy needed for a fast combustion.

The rest of the components are either fuels, or a compound that serves as acombination fuel and binder, or parlon which is a binder but not really a fuel.

Some older flare formulations also had things such as pitch, asphalt, wax, tallow, potassium chlorate and black powder.   Those are not likely to be part of modern flare formulations.

The flares are pressed dry.

377
 
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on January 14, 2017, 08:17:10 PM
Cesium has the second lowest melting point of all metallic elements, which limits its uses. Cesium readily combines with oxygen and is used as a getter, a material that combines with and removes trace gases from vacuum tubes. Cesium is also used in atomic clocks, in photoelectric cells and as a catalyst in the hydrogenation of certain organic compounds. Since it is easily ionized and has a high mass, cesium ions may one day be used as a propellant in ion engines on spacecraft.

Cesium reacts violently with water and ice, forming cesium hydroxide (CsOH). Cesium hydroxide is the strongest base known and will attack glass. Cesium chloride (CsCl) and cesium nitrate (CsNO3) are cesium's most common compounds and are primarily used in the production of other chemicals.

Titanium-aluminum-vanadium alloy is used in jet engines and for high-speed aircraft. Vanadium foil is used in cladding titanium to steel. Vanadium-gallium tape is used in superconducting magnets. Vanadium pentoxide is used in ceramics and as a catalyst for the production of sulfuric acid.

Cadmium is a poisonous metal and its use is somewhat limited for this reason. Like zinc, cadmium can be electroplated to other materials to protect them from corrosion. Cadmium easily absorbs neutrons and is used to make control rods for nuclear reactors. Cadmium is also used in rechargeable nickel-cadmium batteries.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: 377 on January 14, 2017, 08:30:40 PM
Cooper era military parachute hardware was cadmium plated.

377
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on January 14, 2017, 08:34:00 PM
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Cooper era military parachute hardware was cadmium plated.

377

the question would be how this material got on the tie. I don't think the clips from the harness would transfer...I would think the particles came from manufacturing...
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on January 14, 2017, 09:08:09 PM
Chris Ingalls' broadcast is going viral

KING 5's Chris Ingalls' broadcast on the tie and his interview with Tom Kaye is apparently going nationwide. My mother in NYC just called to tell me it aired there this evening. US Today also picked it up, and I've received numerous phone calls and emails about it.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on January 14, 2017, 10:42:23 PM
When I got a call from my mother tonight about Chris Ingall's report on Tom and the metals, I knew I had to write about it. See the Mountain News:

https://themountainnewswa.net/2017/01/14/db-cooper-and-his-tie-story-of-metal-discovery-explodes-nationwide/
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: 377 on January 14, 2017, 10:56:02 PM
It's Snowing:

interesting: flint rod with 50% cerium...wonder if it could be Ferrocerium...from cigarette lighter (flint)?

Survival tool fire starter with mischmetal flint rod
Patent number: 8186995
Abstract: A fire-starter device for survival or emergency use has a handle portion and case portion that twist together, to sheath a mischmetal flint rod inside the case, and a seal ring protects the flint rod from environmental moisture. The case has a steel strike plate and a guide channel. The mischmetal flint rod favorably has a composition of cerium—50%, lanthanum—26%, magnesium—10%, praseodymium—3%, neodymium—1%, and iron—10%.

also:
Ferrocerium is a man-made metallic material that produces hot sparks at temperatures of about 3,000 °C (5,430 °F) when scraped against a rough surface (pyrophoricity), such as ridged steel. Because of this property it is used in many applications, such as clockwork toys, strikers for gas welding and cutting torches, so-called "flint-and-steel" or "flint spark lighter" fire-starters in emergency survival kits and cigarette lighters, as the initial ignition source for the primary fuel.[1] It is also commonly called ferro rod and most commonly of all, flint (particularly in cigarette lighters).

377
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: 377 on January 14, 2017, 10:58:58 PM
t is also known in Europe as Auermetall after its inventor Baron Carl Auer von Welsbach. Three different Auermetalls were developed: the first was iron and cerium, the second also included lanthanum to produce brighter sparks, and the third added other heavy metals. In the Baron von Welsbach's first alloy, 30% iron (ferrum) was added to purified cerium, hence the name "ferro-cerium". Iron reacts with rare earth metals to form hard intermetallic compounds similar to those in neodymium magnets; such magnets are known to generate sparks when broken[citation needed].

A modern ferrocerium firesteel product is composed of an alloy of rare earth metals called mischmetal (containing approximately 50% cerium, 25% lanthanum, and small amounts of praseodymium and neodymium), plus iron and a small amount of magnesium.[2] A variety of other components are added to modify the spark and processing characteristics.[1] Most contemporary flints are hardened with 20% iron oxide and 2% magnesium oxid
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on January 14, 2017, 11:05:13 PM
Is red phosphor, and red phosphrous one and the same?
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on January 14, 2017, 11:26:20 PM
Tom has closed his particle website http://citizensleuths.com/mccrone1.html    !!!  :-\ ????

I went there to look at the format Tom is using for his particles list and any clarification about the McCrone tests only to find his website closed.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on January 14, 2017, 11:31:50 PM
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Tom has closed his particle website http://citizensleuths.com/mccrone1.html    !!!  :-\ ????


This must have been within the hour. I was just there....
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on January 15, 2017, 12:21:33 AM
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When I got a call from my mother tonight about Chris Ingall's report on Tom and the metals, I knew I had to write about it. See the Mountain News:

https://themountainnewswa.net/2017/01/14/db-cooper-and-his-tie-story-of-metal-discovery-explodes-nationwide/

Nice mention of Peterson and Sailshaw, both pivotal to this matter and the DB Cooper case!  :)) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrIPxlFzDi0

Now, is Gray sitting on the Cooper DNA report and other FBI lab analysis of the Cooper tie; he hasnt disclosed yet?
 :-\ :-X ???
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on January 15, 2017, 02:15:28 AM
Not sure what GG is doing. I doubt that he has had any access to any DNA reports.

Along those lines, GG's involvement with the FBI and their documents is circa 2009, mostly as far as I can tell. I don't think he has had much, if any, access since then. If so, he hasn't written about it, other than a few things on Cossey in 2013 after the murder.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on January 15, 2017, 08:42:20 AM
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Not sure what GG is doing. I doubt that he has had any access to any DNA reports.

Along those lines, GG's involvement with the FBI and their documents is circa 2009, mostly as far as I can tell. I don't think he has had much, if any, access since then. If so, he hasn't written about it, other than a few things on Cossey in 2013 after the murder.

I'm wondering if they came from the same source I received my files from? these were 4 individuals, one was on this forum several years ago, and the other was Reichenbach. I don't know who the other two are, they never told me. I was told how they obtained them, but have doubts to the truth behind there statements. I told them I wouldn't reveal this information. the files I received are from Las Vegas, and Gray's are marked being from Seattle.

He hasn't responded to my emails lately, sometimes he's chatty, and then stops for no apparent reason.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on January 15, 2017, 09:22:42 AM
Manufacturing CRT tubes to Boeing employee almost overnight...

.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWVHcDBBqqk
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on January 15, 2017, 09:42:09 AM
Quote
I say:  DB might have been just having fun breaking a CRT from an old TV to be sent to the dump and the particles on the inside of the CRT floated to his tie. That is not how we discarded CRT's at Boeing we had a proper safe procedure.

My grandfather use to work on televisions. he would break off the back of the tube prior to dumping them in the garbage. it was the only way the garbage men would pick them up.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on January 15, 2017, 01:26:03 PM
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Quote
I say:  DB might have been just having fun breaking a CRT from an old TV to be sent to the dump and the particles on the inside of the CRT floated to his tie. That is not how we discarded CRT's at Boeing we had a proper safe procedure.

My grandfather use to work on televisions. he would break off the back of the tube prior to dumping them in the garbage. it was the only way the garbage men would pick them up.

The reason for that was so they wouldn't accidentally explode/implode. It was the recommended handling practice; like taking the doors off refrigerators so kids wouldnt get trapped and suffocate and other safety measures ...  all recommended by various institutes of public safety, manufacturer safety standards, and govt back in the day.     
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on January 15, 2017, 01:35:41 PM
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Manufacturing CRT tubes to Boeing employee almost overnight...

.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWVHcDBBqqk

A star is born. "Cooper CRT" on the Chicago Channel.

The page is back up. The XL files are working. http://www.citizensleuths.com/mccrone1.html

Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on January 15, 2017, 02:39:18 PM
The Mountain News is jumpin' this morning. One commentator suggested that the Rare Earth Metals could come from X-Ray and other medical equipment. His words:

"The rare earth elements that you refer to were, at the time, being introduced in to medical imaging.  They were used in X-ray film, fluorescing screens, image intensifiers, and other products." 
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on January 15, 2017, 02:40:20 PM
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I'm wondering if they came from the same source I received my files from? these were 4 individuals, one was on this forum several years ago, and the other was Reichenbach. I don't know who the other two are, they never told me. I was told how they obtained them, but have doubts to the truth behind there statements. I told them I wouldn't reveal this information. the files I received are from Las Vegas, and Gray's are marked being from Seattle.

He hasn't responded to my emails lately, sometimes he's chatty, and then stops for no apparent reason.


That's my Geoffrey!
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on January 15, 2017, 03:03:28 PM
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The Mountain News is jumpin' this morning. One commentator suggested that the Rare Earth Metals could come from X-Ray and other medical equipment. His words:

"The rare earth elements that you refer to were, at the time, being introduced in to medical imaging.  They were used in X-ray film, fluorescing screens, image intensifiers, and other products."

So? Personal exposure opportunities range all the way from processing to manufacturing to recycling. Pick the pony you will ride bareback!

Keep in mind these are atomic elements - not molecular. Tom made sure to specify that. So we are missing information that may be on that tie.

Am I correct in assuming that Tom is the first to ever inspect that tie in a lab in 40+ years? Where was the FBI? How do you search for somebody if you don't even know what to search for? Whose on first?     
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on January 15, 2017, 03:26:32 PM
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...Am I correct in assuming that Tom is the first to ever inspect that tie in a lab in 40+ years? Where was the FBI? How do you search for somebody if you don't even know what to search for? Whose on first?     



AMEN, Georger!!!
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on January 15, 2017, 03:29:35 PM
Sheridan Update

Ol' Eagle Eye Pete is weighing in on things today at the Mountain News. Now calling himself a "Mad Dog Marine"... Still not too happy with Sail. Oh, well.

Did Pete really pick up Yttrium, Strontium, et al. in the 9-1011 Blg at Boeing???
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on January 15, 2017, 03:35:39 PM
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Quote
I say:  DB might have been just having fun breaking a CRT from an old TV to be sent to the dump and the particles on the inside of the CRT floated to his tie. That is not how we discarded CRT's at Boeing we had a proper safe procedure.

My grandfather use to work on televisions. he would break off the back of the tube prior to dumping them in the garbage. it was the only way the garbage men would pick them up.

Keep in mind Shutter, back in the day you could have found some of these materials in city and small town and country garbage dumps! We used to love going out to the county landfill and shooting tv tubes with a .22. People were always out there looking for salvage. Think of the crap you can still find today in any university town's garbage bins all over town at every apartment complex. It's unbelievable the stuff people collect and throw away each year at moving time. Landfill;s today have formalised the whole process but that was not the case back in the 60s and 70s all across America. And in cities with large manufacturing plants it was even more rich in materials back in the day. I think the opportunities for exposure back in the day are a helluva a lot larger than Tom thinks it is. I think Tom is just assuming Cooper was a highly technical 'geek' and therefore Cooper has to be some technical guru in what Tom sees as a 'technical crime committed by a guru' ... in the first place.

All roads don't lead to Rome!     
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on January 15, 2017, 04:04:39 PM
Some roads lead to Ariel, though.

Yes, the notion that DBC was a tech guy is a leap - he could have simply been fixing his mother's TV set on November 22... or shooting it up in the backyard or landfill.

But the association to geekdom is too juicy to pass up. The hijacking had an advanced pedigree on it - complex skill sets, complete crowd control for five hours during the flight, and a getaway that is still unexplained conclusively after 45 years.

Rare Earth Metals on a clip-on tie fits that profile so cozily, no?
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on January 15, 2017, 04:08:38 PM
REMs and DNA

Is anybody else agog realizing that the tie had 100,000 rare earth metal particles on it - albeit in atomic form - and DNA samples from three males???

Where the heck was this tie? What a mess.

Calling Watson and Holmes! Also calling Watson and Crick.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Tom Kaye on January 15, 2017, 04:15:18 PM

So after reading hundreds of emails we have two interesting "hits". Wa Chang otherwise known as Teledyne did all kinds of exotic metals, and more interesting is Tektronix who made oscilloscopes and did their own manufacturing of CRT's. Both were in the Portland area. One guy that emailed said they used titanium to coat parts in the electron gun for temperature resistance. The other particles match CRT's but we were not sure about the Ti but it is in range now.  So these are now top on our list.

Tom Kaye

Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on January 15, 2017, 08:18:50 PM
Tektronix, Inc. "Tek" is an American company best known for manufacturing test and measurement devices such as oscilloscopes, logic analyzers, and video and mobile test protocol equipment. Originally an independent company, it is now a subsidiary of Fortive, a spinoff from Danaher Corporation. Several charities are or were associated with Tektronix, including the Tektronix Foundation and the M.J. Murdock Charitable Trust in Vancouver, Washington.

If the plant is in the original location, it's just a little over 12 miles to KPDX...
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on January 15, 2017, 09:06:29 PM
Tektronix 50th anniversary, horrible band, but look how the singer is dressed  O0

..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPIXrCNTDqs
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on January 15, 2017, 09:18:02 PM
For decades, Tektronix was Oregon’s largest private employer, according to the Oregon Encyclopedia. Although nearby Nike and Intel are now among companies with larger workforces, and part of Tek’s original campus is leased to other companies, Tek remains a leader in a narrower product niche that would have made the late Howard Vollum proud.

http://pamplinmedia.com/bvt/15-news/293004-170046-tektronix-at-70-silicon-forests-original-tree-keeps-reaching-higher

The co-founder of Tektronix died in a plane accident on May 15, 1971. his plane flipped over in rough water on the Columbia river. his body was never found....
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: MeyerLouie on January 15, 2017, 11:26:13 PM
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Quote
I say:  DB might have been just having fun breaking a CRT from an old TV to be sent to the dump and the particles on the inside of the CRT floated to his tie. That is not how we discarded CRT's at Boeing we had a proper safe procedure.

My grandfather use to work on televisions. he would break off the back of the tube prior to dumping them in the garbage. it was the only way the garbage men would pick them up.

Keep in mind Shutter, back in the day you could have found some of these materials in city and small town and country garbage dumps! We used to love going out to the county landfill and shooting tv tubes with a .22. People were always out there looking for salvage. Think of the crap you can still find today in any university town's garbage bins all over town at every apartment complex. It's unbelievable the stuff people collect and throw away each year at moving time. Landfill;s today have formalised the whole process but that was not the case back in the 60s and 70s all across America. And in cities with large manufacturing plants it was even more rich in materials back in the day. I think the opportunities for exposure back in the day are a helluva a lot larger than Tom thinks it is. I think Tom is just assuming Cooper was a highly technical 'geek' and therefore Cooper has to be some technical guru in what Tom sees as a 'technical crime committed by a guru' ... in the first place.

All roads don't lead to Rome!

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Good points, Georger!  Tom Kaye is making giant leaps in assumption here.  But he's an amateur scientist looking to make it big.  Milk it for all it' worth, TK.  Don't get mixed up with all that proper scientific protocol.  I too remember the old TV tubes.  We were always warned about the old TV tube's possibility of exploding, the chemicals and elements on the inside were very bad.  We used to go out to the dump and look for old TV tubes to bust up -- just to see them explode.  Exposure to those rare earth elements may not have been so difficult afterall, in the day. 

Meyer

Exposure to some of those elements would most certainly not have been difficult at all ... especially if you wanted to sight in your 223 or 22-250 and you and your buddies went out to the local dump or hauled a few picture tubes out to some railroad track for target practice .... it was done all the time everywhere except in downtown NYC ?

Hopefully Tom's list or other data will offer some constraints on the range of possible venues ... otherwise this search could grow to large proportions, quickly. It's interesting that someone at Tek responded to Tom.

In any event it's early. Tomorrow is a new day.  ;) 
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on January 15, 2017, 11:33:17 PM
I realize the leaps here. we could also find it odd that a guy with a tie would be at a dump, so we have something new here to look at. I asked earlier if there is a difference in red phosphor and red phosphorous. reason being, red phosphorus is on the sides of matchboxes. are these one and the same elements?

anyone?
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on January 15, 2017, 11:40:03 PM
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So after reading hundreds of emails we have two interesting "hits". Wa Chang otherwise known as Teledyne did all kinds of exotic metals, and more interesting is Tektronix who made oscilloscopes and did their own manufacturing of CRT's. Both were in the Portland area. One guy that emailed said they used titanium to coat parts in the electron gun for temperature resistance. The other particles match CRT's but we were not sure about the Ti but it is in range now.  So these are now top on our list.

Tom Kaye

Every lab and service center everywhere (civilian and govt) had Tek and Beckman equipment back in the day. High on the list of users were universities especially those with bio-medical, research, space/engineering, and military related programs. Users of any size had their own in-house service departments or relied on regional service centers. 377 may even have one of these in his junk closet.

ps*  A number of labs and research efforts were under severe pressure during those years, especially if it was perceived the research was being conducted in support of the Vietnam War effort under grants from the DOD etc. A number of labs at various institutions were vandalized or bombed. It was during this same period that legislation was passed to tighten restrictions on waste from labs, service centers, and manufacturing, especially as regarded wastes associated with pulmonary disease and cancer causing agents. It was during that climate that the Cooper hijacking occurs.   
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on January 16, 2017, 04:18:45 PM
I am going to cite an example:

I am curious to know if the Cooper tie was ever in an environment where there were 'strip chart recorders', of the type known 'back in the day'. These were mechanical analog recorders of the Beckman type that used ink filled capillary pens to record data on moving strip chart paper. Many of us grew up with these recorders back in the 50s, 60s, and 70s and one trait of these old machines was, their ink pens threw ink everywhere! It didn't matter who you were; sooner or later you were going to get hit by flying ink. Your attending physician or the hospital janitor might return home at the end of a day with red, blue, black, and other colored ink splotches on his or her clothing ... it was a defining trait of that work environment.

Does the Cooper tie have any strip chart recorder ink on it?

How about chemical attributes of other work environments?

Most red writing inks are a dilute solution of the red dye eosin. Blue colour was obtained with triphenylmethane dyes. Some charting inks contained iron sulfate and gallic and tannic acids. Carbon black replaced spinel black, rutile black and iron black in nearly all black inks of the era. In fact the ink industry is the second largest consumer of carbon black. The exact formulations used back in the 60s can be found on the internet.

The old single channel recorders looked something like this - I cant even find a photo of an old Beckman multi channel recorder on the internet but they were monsters in a larger cabinet, sometimes on wheels!

 ;)
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: EVickiW on January 16, 2017, 04:22:16 PM
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I am going to cite an example:

I am curious to know if the Cooper tie was ever in an environment where there were 'strip chart recorders', of the type known 'back in the day'. These were mechanical analog recorders of the Beckman type that used ink filled capillary pens to record data on moving strip chart paper. Many of us grew up with these recorders back in the 50s, 60s, and 70s and one trait of these old machines was, their ink pens threw ink everywhere! It didn't matter who you were; sooner or later you were going to get hit by flying ink. Your attending physician or the hospital janitor might return home at the end of a day with red, blue, black, and other colored ink splotches on his or her clothing ... it was a defining trait of that work environment.

Does the Cooper tie have any strip chart recorder ink on it?

How about chemical attributes of other work environments?

Most red writing inks are a dilute solution of the red dye eosin. Blue colour was obtained with triphenylmethane dyes. Some charting inks contained iron sulfate and gallic and tannic acids. Carbon black replaced spinel black, rutile black and iron black in nearly all black inks of the era. In fact the ink industry is the second largest consumer of carbon black.   

The old single channel recorders looked something like this - I cant even find a photo of an old Beckman on the internet!

 ;)

Is this it? http://www.terapeak.com/worth/beckman-10-recorder-linear-model-1005-strip-chart-recorder-used-condition/182199665127/
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on January 16, 2017, 04:28:59 PM
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I am going to cite an example:

I am curious to know if the Cooper tie was ever in an environment where there were 'strip chart recorders', of the type known 'back in the day'. These were mechanical analog recorders of the Beckman type that used ink filled capillary pens to record data on moving strip chart paper. Many of us grew up with these recorders back in the 50s, 60s, and 70s and one trait of these old machines was, their ink pens threw ink everywhere! It didn't matter who you were; sooner or later you were going to get hit by flying ink. Your attending physician or the hospital janitor might return home at the end of a day with red, blue, black, and other colored ink splotches on his or her clothing ... it was a defining trait of that work environment.

Does the Cooper tie have any strip chart recorder ink on it?

How about chemical attributes of other work environments?

Most red writing inks are a dilute solution of the red dye eosin. Blue colour was obtained with triphenylmethane dyes. Some charting inks contained iron sulfate and gallic and tannic acids. Carbon black replaced spinel black, rutile black and iron black in nearly all black inks of the era. In fact the ink industry is the second largest consumer of carbon black.   

The old single channel recorders looked something like this - I cant even find a photo of an old Beckman on the internet!

 ;)

Is this it? http://www.terapeak.com/worth/beckman-10-recorder-linear-model-1005-strip-chart-recorder-used-condition/182199665127/

Thats a small table top single channel Beckman from the day - the larger multi-channel recorders were tall, in a floor cabinet,  and looked something like this Honeywell pictured - the larger recorders were what you would find in a professional lab because more than one channel was required. Eight to twelve channel recorders were common. 
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on January 16, 2017, 08:48:22 PM
I'm sure several of us will be getting an email soon about Duane's background with CRT's  ;) ;) ;) ;)

Maybe a little girl will remember seeing Duane building a TV in a shed before she was run out  >:D >:D >:D >:D
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on January 16, 2017, 11:42:25 PM
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I'm sure several of us will be getting an email soon about Duane's background with CRT's  ;) ;) ;) ;)

Maybe a little girl will remember seeing Duane building a TV in a shed before she was run out  >:D >:D >:D >:D

Wasn't that Dwayne (not Duane) as in Dwayne Ingram?  :)) 
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on January 16, 2017, 11:48:00 PM
I noticed in manufacturing CRT tube that the phosphor is in liquid form?
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on January 17, 2017, 12:36:59 AM
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I noticed in manufacturing CRT tube that the phosphor is in liquid form?

I dont know anything about the manufacturing process ... my experience was as an end user.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on January 17, 2017, 01:40:07 AM
I finally saw the Expedition Unknown show - got the DVD from Amanda today, via Fed Ex! Woo-hoo.

Kudos to all. Great show. Well done. One of the apparent ironies of Hollywood, fame, etc. is that UE paid for the McCrone Group testing, found the rare earth metals, and developed the new leads with Tom - but NBC news and the Seattle reporter Chris Ingalls got the glory, as his news piece about all of that has gone viral around the world.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on January 17, 2017, 01:45:34 AM
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I finally saw the Expedition Unknown show - got the DVD from Amanda today, via Fed Ex! Woo-hoo.

Kudos to all. Great show. Well done. One of the apparent ironies of Hollywood, fame, etc. is that UE paid for the McCrone Group testing, found the rare earth metals, and developed the new leads with Tom - but NBC news and the Seattle reporter Chris Ingalls got the glory, as his news piece about all of that has gone viral around the world.

Is Geof Gray going to release his trove of FBI reports soon?

Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on January 17, 2017, 06:34:33 AM
I wonder how Marla is taking this new found evidence? will this present a problem for suspects as Josh stated?
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on January 17, 2017, 06:50:55 AM
Quote
Is Geof Gray going to release his trove of FBI reports soon?

He probably has some sort of contract with True Ink..
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Parrotheadvol on January 17, 2017, 08:19:47 AM
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I wonder how Marla is taking this new found evidence? will this present a problem for suspects as Josh stated?

Nah, I'm sure we will hear how the tie was "most likely" purchased at a second hand store just before the hijacking.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: EVickiW on January 17, 2017, 09:45:50 AM
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Quote
Is Geof Gray going to release his trove of FBI reports soon?

He probably has some sort of contract with True Ink..

Geoffrey Gray is the founder of TrueInk.com
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: MarkBennett on January 17, 2017, 09:47:29 AM
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I wonder how Marla is taking this new found evidence? will this present a problem for suspects as Josh stated?

Nah, I'm sure we will hear how the tie was "most likely" purchased at a second hand store just before the hijacking.

I don't think she has to go that far. Marla says her uncle Dewey worked at Boeing on 727/747 production.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Parrotheadvol on January 17, 2017, 10:16:18 AM
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I wonder how Marla is taking this new found evidence? will this present a problem for suspects as Josh stated?

Nah, I'm sure we will hear how the tie was "most likely" purchased at a second hand store just before the hijacking.


I don't think she has to go that far. Marla says her uncle Dewey worked at Boeing on 727/747 production.

I wasn't necessarily talking about Marla. Just pointing out that those with suspects will not let this get in the way of their promoting their guy. Just the same way that confirming shards of bills at Tena Bar didn't slow down anyone pushing a plant theory.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: MarkBennett on January 17, 2017, 11:43:57 AM
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I wonder how Marla is taking this new found evidence? will this present a problem for suspects as Josh stated?

Nah, I'm sure we will hear how the tie was "most likely" purchased at a second hand store just before the hijacking.


I don't think she has to go that far. Marla says her uncle Dewey worked at Boeing on 727/747 production.

I wasn't necessarily talking about Marla. Just pointing out that those with suspects will not let this get in the way of their promoting their guy. Just the same way that confirming shards of bills at Tena Bar didn't slow down anyone pushing a plant theory.

Agreed....When you "know" your suspect is DB Cooper, the data must fit into your story.

My favorite analogy.  DB Cooper is like a jigsaw puzzle.  If you think your suspect is the picture on the front of the box, all of the pieces have to fit.  Even if it takes scissors and magic marker to make them fit.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on January 17, 2017, 01:50:20 PM
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I wonder how Marla is taking this new found evidence? will this present a problem for suspects as Josh stated?

Nah, I'm sure we will hear how the tie was "most likely" purchased at a second hand store just before the hijacking.


I don't think she has to go that far. Marla says her uncle Dewey worked at Boeing on 727/747 production.

I wasn't necessarily talking about Marla. Just pointing out that those with suspects will not let this get in the way of their promoting their guy. Just the same way that confirming shards of bills at Tena Bar didn't slow down anyone pushing a plant theory.

It's pretty hard to argue with good basic science, of the type Tom & McCrone (and others) are doing. 
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on January 17, 2017, 02:30:50 PM
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Quote
Is Geof Gray going to release his trove of FBI reports soon?

He probably has some sort of contract with True Ink..

Geoffrey is True Ink.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on January 17, 2017, 02:33:50 PM
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I don't think she has to go that far. Marla says her uncle Dewey worked at Boeing on 727/747 production.

I wasn't necessarily talking about Marla. Just pointing out that those with suspects will not let this get in the way of their promoting their guy. Just the same way that confirming shards of bills at Tena Bar didn't slow down anyone pushing a plant theory.

It's pretty hard to argue with good basic science, of the type Tom & McCrone (and others) are doing.

Imagine how Tom Colbert and his 40-man CCT are feeling today...

...As for Marla, I would imagine that this kind of information surely ranks up there with the realization that "looks" don't last forever.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on January 17, 2017, 02:35:39 PM
Do the 100,000 rare earth metals put Sheridan Peterson in a new light?

Perhaps Sail could get all of his old work tie tested and give us a comparison on what a Boeing tie actually accumulates.

Yo, Sail, whaddayathink?
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on January 17, 2017, 03:27:53 PM
Response from FBI in light of new findings

I just received this from Ayn Dietrich-Williams commenting on the Bureau's position regarding the findings of 100,000 rare earth metals on DBC's tie:


Hello Bruce--

In 2009, the FBI welcomed the assistance of outside professionals who might offer new insight into the case. The Citizen Sleuths were provided access to some of the evidence. The FBI is still committed to justice for this criminal incident, but--as you know--we are not actively investigating at this time and have not requested additional assistance from outside entities. Should specific physical evidence emerge related explicitly to the parachutes or the money taken by the hijacker, individuals with that evidence are asked to contact their local FBI field office.

I know this doesn't answer your questions precisely, but I trust you'll understand our position.

Regards,
Ayn
________________________________________

Here was my original question:

Greetings Ayn,

Can you shed any light on the subject of the particles on Cooper's tie? Did the FBI conduct this kind of testing prior to closing the case in July 2016? If so, what were your findings? If not, why not?

I know that titanium and bismuth were found by the Citizens Sleuths in 2010, but now the Travel Channel and the Expedition Unknown people (UE) have paid for additional testing. The McCrone Group of Chicago found
100,000 are earth metals, including stuff like Yttrium, Cerium, Strontium sulfide, etc. In fact Tom Kaye revealed on TV this week in the UE broadcast that they have found 23 of the most 26 most common elements
used in TV screens, oscilloscopes, and monitors, leading to speculation that DB Cooper was a Boeing employee involved in the SST manufacture.

Will the Expedition Unknown findings cause the FBI to re-open the case? The story has gone world-wide this weekend courtesy of Chris Ingalls at KING 5. Not only has my mother called me from NY to talk about it, along
my ex-wife, but also a former girlfriend who hasn't spoken to me since she ran off to marry whatshisname....

Thanks,

Bruce
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on January 17, 2017, 04:49:29 PM
Quote
The FBI is still committed to justice for this criminal incident

Interesting, two emails now going against what Mr. Blevins keeps claiming. he rides Robert99 for the flight path but can't believe the FBI doesn't think Kenny was Cooper....

screwed this post up ;D ;D ;D I'm on the phone, looking at You Tube, and fixing my MP3 player  C:-)
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on January 17, 2017, 05:50:00 PM
Quote
100,000 rare earth metals

You might want to ask Georger about this. I don't think 100,000 are rare.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on January 17, 2017, 07:33:23 PM
The SST only had a small radar/weather screen.....

How about something nobody has thought of? who did the repairs, or maintenance for the Air Traffic Controllers? they had screens up the wazoo...Cooper could of got all the knowledge he needed?
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on January 17, 2017, 07:40:31 PM
I asked Expedition Unknown why or how they are getting by-passed by the media hoopla - I'm still getting emails and calls - and apparently the Travel Channel's PR department didn't even send out a press release to the media on the importance of the findings. Big Time dropping the ball. NBC stepped in and got all the glory. And the EU paid of the testing, too!
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on January 17, 2017, 07:42:02 PM
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100,000 rare earth metals

You might want to ask Georger about this. I don't think 100,000 are rare.

Perhaps a better way to frame the issue is to say: the testing revealed 100,000 particles, including many rare earth metals.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on January 17, 2017, 07:45:20 PM
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100,000 rare earth metals

You might want to ask Georger about this. I don't think 100,000 are rare.

Perhaps a better way to frame the issue is to say: the testing revealed 100,000 particles, including many rare earth metals.

Pretty sure that's what they were implying....
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on January 17, 2017, 08:06:16 PM
Kennedy introduced the National Supersonic Transport program on June 5, 1963. simulations of the SST lasted from 1965-1967 with 175 people involved... Rising costs and the lack of a clear market led to its cancellation in 1971 before two prototypes had been completed.

Congress in 1971 dramatically reversed itself and handed the Administration and the U.S. aviation industry a serious rebuff by halting federal government participation in the construction of a supersonic transport plane (SST).

The action took place in the House on March 18 and in the Senate March 24. The two chambers on those dates voted to delete $134-million in SST funds contained in a resolution (H J Res 468) providing appropriations for the Department of Transportation (DOT) for the last quarter of fiscal 1971. The rest of the DOT funds in H J Res 468 were approved routinely

Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Robert99 on January 17, 2017, 10:49:22 PM
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Kennedy introduced the National Supersonic Transport program on June 5, 1963. simulations of the SST lasted from 1965-1967 with 175 people involved... Rising costs and the lack of a clear market led to its cancellation in 1971 before two prototypes had been completed.

Congress in 1971 dramatically reversed itself and handed the Administration and the U.S. aviation industry a serious rebuff by halting federal government participation in the construction of a supersonic transport plane (SST).

The action took place in the House on March 18 and in the Senate March 24. The two chambers on those dates voted to delete $134-million in SST funds contained in a resolution (H J Res 468) providing appropriations for the Department of Transportation (DOT) for the last quarter of fiscal 1971. The rest of the DOT funds in H J Res 468 were approved routinely

Currently, we are in Federal Government Fiscal Year 2017 which began on October 1, 2016 and ends on September 30, 2017.  However, several decades ago, the Fiscal Year began on another date (July 1st?).  During the change over between these start dates, there was a three month "fiscal year".  The congressional appropriations in question would have funded the SST for the year starting on either July 1st or October 1st.  Either way, the SST program would have been in full shutdown mode by the end of the CY 1971.  And that may be what set Cooper off.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on January 17, 2017, 11:07:04 PM
"In March 1971, workers at the Boeing Supersonic Transport Division listened to Boeing vice president Lowell Mickelwait announce the final U.S. Senate rejection of funding for the SST program."


http://old.seattletimes.com/special/centennial/november/lights_out.html
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on January 17, 2017, 11:31:42 PM
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100,000 rare earth metals

You might want to ask Georger about this. I don't think 100,000 are rare.

Perhaps a better way to frame the issue is to say: the testing revealed 100,000 particles, including many rare earth metals.

Feyman did a nice video about the 'wiggly wobbly particle universe' we live in, from an atom's point of view. The video may be on YouTube somewhere. To offer some perspective, humans lose between 30,000 and 40,000 skin cells alone every hour. During a 24-hour period almost a million skin cells fall off. Every draft or wind moves these cells around like a perpetual dissipating cloud and some may be found miles away. Those cells may result in contact dna of the owner. Everything sheds and contributes its set of identifier particles to the physical universe. Tom's stubs tapped into that universe.  :))     

It's the high frequency of skin cell loss that made finding epithelial skin cell dna on the clasp a strong possibility.

Skin cells from the crew and passengers may be on that tie; just for starters. 

<edit> Here's one example: A set of spores from a fungus (histoplasma capsulatum) often found in bird and bat droppings, is responsible for a common pulmonary infection called histoplasmosis that used to be found with some frequency in the Midwest (often without symptoms until later in life). It is endemic to people raised in agricultural areas of the Midwest. Since Cooper was said to have had a Midwestern accent could he have had a histo exposure during his life, acquired by cleaning out barns and chicken coops. Evidence might be on that tie?   ;)
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Robert99 on January 18, 2017, 12:11:22 PM
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Quote
100,000 rare earth metals

You might want to ask Georger about this. I don't think 100,000 are rare.

Perhaps a better way to frame the issue is to say: the testing revealed 100,000 particles, including many rare earth metals.

Feyman did a nice video about the 'wiggly wobbly particle universe' we live in, from an atom's point of view. The video may be on YouTube somewhere. To offer some perspective, humans lose between 30,000 and 40,000 skin cells alone every hour. During a 24-hour period almost a million skin cells fall off. Every draft or wind moves these cells around like a perpetual dissipating cloud and some may be found miles away. Those cells may result in contact dna of the owner. Everything sheds and contributes its set of identifier particles to the physical universe. Tom's stubs tapped into that universe.  :))     

It's the high frequency of skin cell loss that made finding epithelial skin cell dna on the clasp a strong possibility.

Skin cells from the crew and passengers may be on that tie; just for starters. 

<edit> Here's one example: A set of spores from a fungus (histoplasma capsulatum) often found in bird and bat droppings, is responsible for a common pulmonary infection called histoplasmosis that used to be found with some frequency in the Midwest (often without symptoms until later in life). It is endemic to people raised in agricultural areas of the Midwest. Since Cooper was said to have had a Midwestern accent could he have had a histo exposure during his life, acquired by cleaning out barns and chicken coops. Evidence might be on that tie?   ;)

I believe that everyone who came in contact with Cooper said that he did not have ANY accent.  And since the people who talked to him came from several different regions of the USA, this apparently means that Cooper spoke "standard American English" with no regional accents.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on January 18, 2017, 01:40:47 PM
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Quote
100,000 rare earth metals

You might want to ask Georger about this. I don't think 100,000 are rare.

Perhaps a better way to frame the issue is to say: the testing revealed 100,000 particles, including many rare earth metals.

Feyman did a nice video about the 'wiggly wobbly particle universe' we live in, from an atom's point of view. The video may be on YouTube somewhere. To offer some perspective, humans lose between 30,000 and 40,000 skin cells alone every hour. During a 24-hour period almost a million skin cells fall off. Every draft or wind moves these cells around like a perpetual dissipating cloud and some may be found miles away. Those cells may result in contact dna of the owner. Everything sheds and contributes its set of identifier particles to the physical universe. Tom's stubs tapped into that universe.  :))     

It's the high frequency of skin cell loss that made finding epithelial skin cell dna on the clasp a strong possibility.

Skin cells from the crew and passengers may be on that tie; just for starters. 

<edit> Here's one example: A set of spores from a fungus (histoplasma capsulatum) often found in bird and bat droppings, is responsible for a common pulmonary infection called histoplasmosis that used to be found with some frequency in the Midwest (often without symptoms until later in life). It is endemic to people raised in agricultural areas of the Midwest. Since Cooper was said to have had a Midwestern accent could he have had a histo exposure during his life, acquired by cleaning out barns and chicken coops. Evidence might be on that tie?   ;)

I believe that everyone who came in contact with Cooper said that he did not have ANY accent.  And since the people who talked to him came from several different regions of the USA, this apparently means that Cooper spoke "standard American English" with no regional accents.

What spores are commonly found in that place?   ;)
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Robert99 on January 18, 2017, 02:25:11 PM
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Quote
100,000 rare earth metals

You might want to ask Georger about this. I don't think 100,000 are rare.

Perhaps a better way to frame the issue is to say: the testing revealed 100,000 particles, including many rare earth metals.

Feyman did a nice video about the 'wiggly wobbly particle universe' we live in, from an atom's point of view. The video may be on YouTube somewhere. To offer some perspective, humans lose between 30,000 and 40,000 skin cells alone every hour. During a 24-hour period almost a million skin cells fall off. Every draft or wind moves these cells around like a perpetual dissipating cloud and some may be found miles away. Those cells may result in contact dna of the owner. Everything sheds and contributes its set of identifier particles to the physical universe. Tom's stubs tapped into that universe.  :))     

It's the high frequency of skin cell loss that made finding epithelial skin cell dna on the clasp a strong possibility.

Skin cells from the crew and passengers may be on that tie; just for starters. 

<edit> Here's one example: A set of spores from a fungus (histoplasma capsulatum) often found in bird and bat droppings, is responsible for a common pulmonary infection called histoplasmosis that used to be found with some frequency in the Midwest (often without symptoms until later in life). It is endemic to people raised in agricultural areas of the Midwest. Since Cooper was said to have had a Midwestern accent could he have had a histo exposure during his life, acquired by cleaning out barns and chicken coops. Evidence might be on that tie?   ;)

I believe that everyone who came in contact with Cooper said that he did not have ANY accent.  And since the people who talked to him came from several different regions of the USA, this apparently means that Cooper spoke "standard American English" with no regional accents.

What spores are commonly found in that place?   ;)

Where in Iowa do you find bats? :o
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on January 18, 2017, 03:50:12 PM
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Quote
100,000 rare earth metals

You might want to ask Georger about this. I don't think 100,000 are rare.

Perhaps a better way to frame the issue is to say: the testing revealed 100,000 particles, including many rare earth metals.

Feyman did a nice video about the 'wiggly wobbly particle universe' we live in, from an atom's point of view. The video may be on YouTube somewhere. To offer some perspective, humans lose between 30,000 and 40,000 skin cells alone every hour. During a 24-hour period almost a million skin cells fall off. Every draft or wind moves these cells around like a perpetual dissipating cloud and some may be found miles away. Those cells may result in contact dna of the owner. Everything sheds and contributes its set of identifier particles to the physical universe. Tom's stubs tapped into that universe.  :))     

It's the high frequency of skin cell loss that made finding epithelial skin cell dna on the clasp a strong possibility.

Skin cells from the crew and passengers may be on that tie; just for starters. 

<edit> Here's one example: A set of spores from a fungus (histoplasma capsulatum) often found in bird and bat droppings, is responsible for a common pulmonary infection called histoplasmosis that used to be found with some frequency in the Midwest (often without symptoms until later in life). It is endemic to people raised in agricultural areas of the Midwest. Since Cooper was said to have had a Midwestern accent could he have had a histo exposure during his life, acquired by cleaning out barns and chicken coops. Evidence might be on that tie?   ;)

I believe that everyone who came in contact with Cooper said that he did not have ANY accent.  And since the people who talked to him came from several different regions of the USA, this apparently means that Cooper spoke "standard American English" with no regional accents.

What spores are commonly found in that place?   ;)

Where in Iowa do you find bats? :o

everywhere above ground level ! buildings, barns, trees, forests, ... caves, hollows, river and creek vallies, rocky outcrop areas, cliffs, ... http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/299054-overview   

anywhere where bat diets can be satisfied: 70% of bats consume insects, sharing a large part of natural pest control. There are also fruit-eating bats; nectar-eating bats; carnivorous bats that prey on small mammals, birds, lizards and frogs; fish-eating bats.. blood, excrement, & milk and egg sucking bats ...
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Robert99 on January 18, 2017, 04:33:59 PM
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Quote
100,000 rare earth metals

You might want to ask Georger about this. I don't think 100,000 are rare.

Perhaps a better way to frame the issue is to say: the testing revealed 100,000 particles, including many rare earth metals.

Feyman did a nice video about the 'wiggly wobbly particle universe' we live in, from an atom's point of view. The video may be on YouTube somewhere. To offer some perspective, humans lose between 30,000 and 40,000 skin cells alone every hour. During a 24-hour period almost a million skin cells fall off. Every draft or wind moves these cells around like a perpetual dissipating cloud and some may be found miles away. Those cells may result in contact dna of the owner. Everything sheds and contributes its set of identifier particles to the physical universe. Tom's stubs tapped into that universe.  :))     

It's the high frequency of skin cell loss that made finding epithelial skin cell dna on the clasp a strong possibility.

Skin cells from the crew and passengers may be on that tie; just for starters. 

<edit> Here's one example: A set of spores from a fungus (histoplasma capsulatum) often found in bird and bat droppings, is responsible for a common pulmonary infection called histoplasmosis that used to be found with some frequency in the Midwest (often without symptoms until later in life). It is endemic to people raised in agricultural areas of the Midwest. Since Cooper was said to have had a Midwestern accent could he have had a histo exposure during his life, acquired by cleaning out barns and chicken coops. Evidence might be on that tie?   ;)

I believe that everyone who came in contact with Cooper said that he did not have ANY accent.  And since the people who talked to him came from several different regions of the USA, this apparently means that Cooper spoke "standard American English" with no regional accents.

What spores are commonly found in that place?   ;)

Where in Iowa do you find bats? :o

everywhere above ground level ! buildings, barns, trees, forests, ... caves, hollows, river and creek vallies, rocky outcrop areas, cliffs, ... http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/299054-overview   

anywhere where bat diets can be satisfied: 70% of bats consume insects, sharing a large part of natural pest control. There are also fruit-eating bats; nectar-eating bats; carnivorous bats that prey on small mammals, birds, lizards and frogs; fish-eating bats.. blood, excrement, & milk and egg sucking bats ...

What do the bats eat in winter when Iowa is covered by two feet of ice and snow?
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: EVickiW on January 18, 2017, 04:51:44 PM
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100,000 rare earth metals

You might want to ask Georger about this. I don't think 100,000 are rare.

Perhaps a better way to frame the issue is to say: the testing revealed 100,000 particles, including many rare earth metals.

Feyman did a nice video about the 'wiggly wobbly particle universe' we live in, from an atom's point of view. The video may be on YouTube somewhere. To offer some perspective, humans lose between 30,000 and 40,000 skin cells alone every hour. During a 24-hour period almost a million skin cells fall off. Every draft or wind moves these cells around like a perpetual dissipating cloud and some may be found miles away. Those cells may result in contact dna of the owner. Everything sheds and contributes its set of identifier particles to the physical universe. Tom's stubs tapped into that universe.  :))     

It's the high frequency of skin cell loss that made finding epithelial skin cell dna on the clasp a strong possibility.

Skin cells from the crew and passengers may be on that tie; just for starters. 

<edit> Here's one example: A set of spores from a fungus (histoplasma capsulatum) often found in bird and bat droppings, is responsible for a common pulmonary infection called histoplasmosis that used to be found with some frequency in the Midwest (often without symptoms until later in life). It is endemic to people raised in agricultural areas of the Midwest. Since Cooper was said to have had a Midwestern accent could he have had a histo exposure during his life, acquired by cleaning out barns and chicken coops. Evidence might be on that tie?   ;)

I believe that everyone who came in contact with Cooper said that he did not have ANY accent.  And since the people who talked to him came from several different regions of the USA, this apparently means that Cooper spoke "standard American English" with no regional accents.

What spores are commonly found in that place?   ;)

Where in Iowa do you find bats? :o

everywhere above ground level ! buildings, barns, trees, forests, ... caves, hollows, river and creek vallies, rocky outcrop areas, cliffs, ... http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/299054-overview   

anywhere where bat diets can be satisfied: 70% of bats consume insects, sharing a large part of natural pest control. There are also fruit-eating bats; nectar-eating bats; carnivorous bats that prey on small mammals, birds, lizards and frogs; fish-eating bats.. blood, excrement, & milk and egg sucking bats ...

What do the bats eat in winter when Iowa is covered by two feet of ice and snow?

They hibernate.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Robert99 on January 18, 2017, 04:57:03 PM
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Quote
100,000 rare earth metals

You might want to ask Georger about this. I don't think 100,000 are rare.

Perhaps a better way to frame the issue is to say: the testing revealed 100,000 particles, including many rare earth metals.

Feyman did a nice video about the 'wiggly wobbly particle universe' we live in, from an atom's point of view. The video may be on YouTube somewhere. To offer some perspective, humans lose between 30,000 and 40,000 skin cells alone every hour. During a 24-hour period almost a million skin cells fall off. Every draft or wind moves these cells around like a perpetual dissipating cloud and some may be found miles away. Those cells may result in contact dna of the owner. Everything sheds and contributes its set of identifier particles to the physical universe. Tom's stubs tapped into that universe.  :))     

It's the high frequency of skin cell loss that made finding epithelial skin cell dna on the clasp a strong possibility.

Skin cells from the crew and passengers may be on that tie; just for starters. 

<edit> Here's one example: A set of spores from a fungus (histoplasma capsulatum) often found in bird and bat droppings, is responsible for a common pulmonary infection called histoplasmosis that used to be found with some frequency in the Midwest (often without symptoms until later in life). It is endemic to people raised in agricultural areas of the Midwest. Since Cooper was said to have had a Midwestern accent could he have had a histo exposure during his life, acquired by cleaning out barns and chicken coops. Evidence might be on that tie?   ;)

I believe that everyone who came in contact with Cooper said that he did not have ANY accent.  And since the people who talked to him came from several different regions of the USA, this apparently means that Cooper spoke "standard American English" with no regional accents.

What spores are commonly found in that place?   ;)

Where in Iowa do you find bats? :o

everywhere above ground level ! buildings, barns, trees, forests, ... caves, hollows, river and creek vallies, rocky outcrop areas, cliffs, ... http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/299054-overview   

anywhere where bat diets can be satisfied: 70% of bats consume insects, sharing a large part of natural pest control. There are also fruit-eating bats; nectar-eating bats; carnivorous bats that prey on small mammals, birds, lizards and frogs; fish-eating bats.. blood, excrement, & milk and egg sucking bats ...

What do the bats eat in winter when Iowa is covered by two feet of ice and snow?

They hibernate.

Okay, thank you.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on January 18, 2017, 05:11:48 PM
Reading about EVick, two feet of ice, and bats reminded me of my trip home from NY last week. I changed planes in Minneapolis and the jetway was unheated. There was snow INSIDE the jetway and I could see my breath so strong I thought I was at an NFL game in Green Bay...

5 degrees in MPLS. Congrats to all those who love that brisk weather... Maybe that's why Tina moved to Eugene...
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: EVickiW on January 18, 2017, 05:20:17 PM
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Reading about EVick, two feet of ice, and bats reminded me of my trip home from NY last week. I changed planes in Minneapolis and the jetway was unheated. There was snow INSIDE the jetway and I could see my breath so strong I thought I was at an NFL game in Green Bay...

5 degrees in MPLS. Congrats to all those who love that brisk weather... Maybe that's why Tina moved to Eugene...

It was 5 degrees? Above? Whimp!
We had morning wake up temps at -19 and I still had to drag my ass to work! 

Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on January 18, 2017, 10:31:33 PM
Yup. I'm a wuss.

But I'll still send you a postcard from Ecuador...
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on January 18, 2017, 11:33:49 PM
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Quote
100,000 rare earth metals

You might want to ask Georger about this. I don't think 100,000 are rare.

Perhaps a better way to frame the issue is to say: the testing revealed 100,000 particles, including many rare earth metals.

Feyman did a nice video about the 'wiggly wobbly particle universe' we live in, from an atom's point of view. The video may be on YouTube somewhere. To offer some perspective, humans lose between 30,000 and 40,000 skin cells alone every hour. During a 24-hour period almost a million skin cells fall off. Every draft or wind moves these cells around like a perpetual dissipating cloud and some may be found miles away. Those cells may result in contact dna of the owner. Everything sheds and contributes its set of identifier particles to the physical universe. Tom's stubs tapped into that universe.  :))     

It's the high frequency of skin cell loss that made finding epithelial skin cell dna on the clasp a strong possibility.

Skin cells from the crew and passengers may be on that tie; just for starters. 

<edit> Here's one example: A set of spores from a fungus (histoplasma capsulatum) often found in bird and bat droppings, is responsible for a common pulmonary infection called histoplasmosis that used to be found with some frequency in the Midwest (often without symptoms until later in life). It is endemic to people raised in agricultural areas of the Midwest. Since Cooper was said to have had a Midwestern accent could he have had a histo exposure during his life, acquired by cleaning out barns and chicken coops. Evidence might be on that tie?   ;)

I believe that everyone who came in contact with Cooper said that he did not have ANY accent.  And since the people who talked to him came from several different regions of the USA, this apparently means that Cooper spoke "standard American English" with no regional accents.

What spores are commonly found in that place?   ;)

Where in Iowa do you find bats? :o

everywhere above ground level ! buildings, barns, trees, forests, ... caves, hollows, river and creek vallies, rocky outcrop areas, cliffs, ... http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/299054-overview   

anywhere where bat diets can be satisfied: 70% of bats consume insects, sharing a large part of natural pest control. There are also fruit-eating bats; nectar-eating bats; carnivorous bats that prey on small mammals, birds, lizards and frogs; fish-eating bats.. blood, excrement, & milk and egg sucking bats ...

What do the bats eat in winter when Iowa is covered by two feet of ice and snow?

They hibernate.

Okay, thank you.

Funny! Thanks Vicki!  :)) :)) :))
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on January 18, 2017, 11:46:49 PM
Let me remind everyone that on this issue of particles, Tom also found some spores: http://www.citizensleuths.com/pollen.html.  After examining one of those spores Tom found particles embedded in that spore Tom says is a "residue made up of titanium dioxide, silicates and alumina. These materials are typically used for pill coatings [2]. This powder suggests that Cooper would have probably been taking some form of pill on a regular basis."

Tom made the further remark: " Microscopic examination of more than 28 SEM stubs from Cooper's tie revealed a quantity of Lycopodium spores. The Lycopodium spores offer the possibility that Cooper was taking some form of pill during working hours while wearing the tie. A retired pharmacist [3] was consulted as to what family of drug might use an orally ingested tablet that would require anti-stick dust, but no information could be found. Medical histories of potential Cooper suspects might reveal a particular drug that could be associated with the Lycopodium additive and thereby forging a link between the suspect and the crime."

This supports the issue of using medical histories and medical status to help identify a subject.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Robert99 on January 18, 2017, 11:52:10 PM
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Let me remind everyone that on this issue of particles, Tom also found some spores: http://www.citizensleuths.com/pollen.html.  After examining one of those spores Tom found particles embedded in that spore Tom says is a "residue made up of titanium dioxide, silicates and alumina. These materials are typically used for pill coatings [2]. This powder suggests that Cooper would have probably been taking some form of pill on a regular basis."

Tom made the further remark: " Microscopic examination of more than 28 SEM stubs from Cooper's tie revealed a quantity of Lycopodium spores. The Lycopodium spores offer the possibility that Cooper was taking some form of pill during working hours while wearing the tie. A retired pharmacist [3] was consulted as to what family of drug might use an orally ingested tablet that would require anti-stick dust, but no information could be found. Medical histories of potential Cooper suspects might reveal a particular drug that could be associated with the Lycopodium additive and thereby forging a link between the suspect and the crime."

This supports the issue of using medical histories and medical status to help identify a subject.

Georger, I believe that titanium dioxide is also used in the "high speed" paint that is used on spacecraft and some very fast aircraft.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on January 19, 2017, 01:33:40 AM
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Let me remind everyone that on this issue of particles, Tom also found some spores: http://www.citizensleuths.com/pollen.html.  After examining one of those spores Tom found particles embedded in that spore Tom says is a "residue made up of titanium dioxide, silicates and alumina. These materials are typically used for pill coatings [2]. This powder suggests that Cooper would have probably been taking some form of pill on a regular basis."

Tom made the further remark: " Microscopic examination of more than 28 SEM stubs from Cooper's tie revealed a quantity of Lycopodium spores. The Lycopodium spores offer the possibility that Cooper was taking some form of pill during working hours while wearing the tie. A retired pharmacist [3] was consulted as to what family of drug might use an orally ingested tablet that would require anti-stick dust, but no information could be found. Medical histories of potential Cooper suspects might reveal a particular drug that could be associated with the Lycopodium additive and thereby forging a link between the suspect and the crime."

This supports the issue of using medical histories and medical status to help identify a subject.

Georger, I believe that titanium dioxide is also used in the "high speed" paint that is used on spacecraft and some very fast aircraft.

agree...
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: MeyerLouie on January 19, 2017, 02:27:01 AM
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I finally saw the Expedition Unknown show - got the DVD from Amanda today, via Fed Ex! Woo-hoo.

Kudos to all. Great show. Well done. One of the apparent ironies of Hollywood, fame, etc. is that UE paid for the McCrone Group testing, found the rare earth metals, and developed the new leads with Tom - but NBC news and the Seattle reporter Chris Ingalls got the glory, as his news piece about all of that has gone viral around the world.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Bruce:  How'd you get the DVD?  I wouldn't mind having a copy.  Just email Amanda?  I agree, well done, entertaining, it was great to be involved.  Meyer
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: 377 on January 19, 2017, 02:36:54 AM
Titanium Dioxide... criminal indictments and convictions for selling related "secrets" to China.

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/two-individuals-and-company-found-guilty-conspiracy-sell-trade-secrets-chinese-companies

377

Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: MeyerLouie on January 19, 2017, 02:49:56 AM
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Do the 100,000 rare earth metals put Sheridan Peterson in a new light?

Perhaps Sail could get all of his old work tie tested and give us a comparison on what a Boeing tie actually accumulates.

Yo, Sail, whaddayathink?

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I could swear there's been a guy posting here for years who swears Cooper was a Boeing guy.  Tom Kaye' analysis revealed a startling revelation, that Cooper could be a Boeing guy.  Is that really a startling revelation?  Not.  But then again, we're dealing with an amateur scientist here.  I'm willing to follow the 100,000 points of light (er, uh, particles, I mean) to fruition, it's getting some serious press now.  But again, in the back of my mind, I know we can't even prove the tie belonged to DBC, the tie went to so many places over so much time, only God knows how many FBI'ers handled the tie -- soooo, I don't mean to sound so skeptical (okay, I'm lying), but it is possible we have something here. I'll tag along and see if we really have something here.

Meyer
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: MeyerLouie on January 19, 2017, 04:32:12 AM
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I finally got around to watching this, and I agree there was a leap (no pun intended) to a conclusion.  Even if, they could show Cooper bounced on the stairs to throw off the search area, there is nothing that shows he jumped just outside of Reno.  He could have jumped five minutes later, ten minutes later, any time.  That part of the show was pure speculation.

The most interesting part was the chemicals on the tie.  Again, we don't know someone else owned the tie at the time those chemicals got on the tie, but it gives a new place to look.

And, I thought Robert99 spoke just fine.  Why did they think he needed subtitles?   ;D

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I have been keeping tabs on the Travel Channel.  Expedition Unknown, our Cooper story, aired again yesterday and today, and will air a couple more times this month and a few times in February.  And with the tie's 100,000 particles information coming out, I'd say there's serious renewed interest in the case. 

By the way, Josh Gates uses subtitles on himself even when what he is saying is clear.  I think he just wants to make sure everyone and everything is heard.   Sometimes he goes a little extra, and it's no reflection on anyone.  I'm convinced Josh has only good intentions here.

Did anyone happen to notice that Tina Bar was misspelled on the broadcast?  That's right, they had 'Tena Bar.'  I think it's funny because we all walked past the Tina Bar entry sign "Tina Bar, Members Only" a hundred times that day, and it still got misspelled.  Funny.

Meyer
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: EVickiW on January 19, 2017, 09:20:18 AM
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Let me remind everyone that on this issue of particles, Tom also found some spores: http://www.citizensleuths.com/pollen.html.  After examining one of those spores Tom found particles embedded in that spore Tom says is a "residue made up of titanium dioxide, silicates and alumina. These materials are typically used for pill coatings [2]. This powder suggests that Cooper would have probably been taking some form of pill on a regular basis."

Tom made the further remark: " Microscopic examination of more than 28 SEM stubs from Cooper's tie revealed a quantity of Lycopodium spores. The Lycopodium spores offer the possibility that Cooper was taking some form of pill during working hours while wearing the tie. A retired pharmacist [3] was consulted as to what family of drug might use an orally ingested tablet that would require anti-stick dust, but no information could be found. Medical histories of potential Cooper suspects might reveal a particular drug that could be associated with the Lycopodium additive and thereby forging a link between the suspect and the crime."

This supports the issue of using medical histories and medical status to help identify a subject.

Georger, I believe that titanium dioxide is also used in the "high speed" paint that is used on spacecraft and some very fast aircraft.

Here are dome other uses: http://printwiki.org/Titanium_Dioxide

Titanium Dioxide
A bright white, insoluble powder (chemical formula TiO2) added to paper pulp as a filler or applied as a coating pigment, and is the most efficient means of increasing paper brightness and opacity. Of the three primary optical brighteners, it is more effective than clay, or calcium carbonate, but is also the most expensive. Titanium dioxide is an oxide of the metal titanium, and is used widely in the manufacture of other materials, such as plastics, leathers, face powders, linoleum, and paints. (See also Fillers.)

Titanium dioxide is also used as a white pigment in printing inks, and has the highest degree of opacity of any white pigment. It accounts for 80% of all the white pigments in use. It is extremely fast-to-light, and resistant to nearly all substances. There are two major grades of titanium dioxide: anatase (bluer, harder, and more opaque) and rutile (less opaque and softer). Various coatings of aluminum, silicon, or zinc oxides can also be added to obtain a variety of desired properties. Titanium dioxide is used in every type of printing ink manufactured. When used in printing ink, titanium dioxide is also called cover white. (See also White Pigments.)
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Robert99 on January 19, 2017, 11:41:10 AM
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Let me remind everyone that on this issue of particles, Tom also found some spores: http://www.citizensleuths.com/pollen.html.  After examining one of those spores Tom found particles embedded in that spore Tom says is a "residue made up of titanium dioxide, silicates and alumina. These materials are typically used for pill coatings [2]. This powder suggests that Cooper would have probably been taking some form of pill on a regular basis."

Tom made the further remark: " Microscopic examination of more than 28 SEM stubs from Cooper's tie revealed a quantity of Lycopodium spores. The Lycopodium spores offer the possibility that Cooper was taking some form of pill during working hours while wearing the tie. A retired pharmacist [3] was consulted as to what family of drug might use an orally ingested tablet that would require anti-stick dust, but no information could be found. Medical histories of potential Cooper suspects might reveal a particular drug that could be associated with the Lycopodium additive and thereby forging a link between the suspect and the crime."

This supports the issue of using medical histories and medical status to help identify a subject.

Georger, I believe that titanium dioxide is also used in the "high speed" paint that is used on spacecraft and some very fast aircraft.

Here are dome other uses: http://printwiki.org/Titanium_Dioxide

Titanium Dioxide
A bright white, insoluble powder (chemical formula TiO2) added to paper pulp as a filler or applied as a coating pigment, and is the most efficient means of increasing paper brightness and opacity. Of the three primary optical brighteners, it is more effective than clay, or calcium carbonate, but is also the most expensive. Titanium dioxide is an oxide of the metal titanium, and is used widely in the manufacture of other materials, such as plastics, leathers, face powders, linoleum, and paints. (See also Fillers.)

Titanium dioxide is also used as a white pigment in printing inks, and has the highest degree of opacity of any white pigment. It accounts for 80% of all the white pigments in use. It is extremely fast-to-light, and resistant to nearly all substances. There are two major grades of titanium dioxide: anatase (bluer, harder, and more opaque) and rutile (less opaque and softer). Various coatings of aluminum, silicon, or zinc oxides can also be added to obtain a variety of desired properties. Titanium dioxide is used in every type of printing ink manufactured. When used in printing ink, titanium dioxide is also called cover white. (See also White Pigments.)

Titanium dioxide seems to be one of the most common things around.  However, chasing down the origins of those other 100,000 particles is going to take a bit of time, at least a week or two. :D
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on January 19, 2017, 09:07:58 PM
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I finally saw the Expedition Unknown show - got the DVD from Amanda today, via Fed Ex! Woo-hoo.

Kudos to all. Great show. Well done. One of the apparent ironies of Hollywood, fame, etc. is that UE paid for the McCrone Group testing, found the rare earth metals, and developed the new leads with Tom - but NBC news and the Seattle reporter Chris Ingalls got the glory, as his news piece about all of that has gone viral around the world.


From Meyer:
Bruce:  How'd you get the DVD?  I wouldn't mind having a copy.  Just email Amanda?  I agree, well done, entertaining, it was great to be involved.  Meyer


Yes, Meyer. Just email Amanda. I asked last week and I received a copy in a few days. I'm wondering how to download it to another disc, or to my hard drive so I can send out copies. Hmmm. That might take awhile for me to figure out.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on January 19, 2017, 09:10:39 PM
Boeing Employees

I just got this email from a retired Boeing engineer named "Frank." I think it has value and is worthy of consideration:

*********************

I read the articles about the D. B. Cooper investigation.  This might help.

I was an engineer in the Aerospace division at Boeing for 40 years.   We worked on military, space and other projects that didn’t fit anywhere else.  D. B. Cooper was a big discussion topic.  We realized that he could be a Boeing employee who had been a paratrooper.

There was a small group of experts that led the effort to use composite and other new material for aerospace structures.  If you were planning to use a new material or subjecting a material to unusual stress you consulted with them.  It was a small enough group that all contact I made with them was with the group supervisor.   Maybe D. B. Cooper was part of that group.

Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on January 19, 2017, 09:13:48 PM
what would be his motive?

Boeing Aerospace Operations, Inc. was incorporated in 1978 and is based in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. Boeing Aerospace Operations, Inc. operates as a subsidiary of The Boeing Company
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Robert99 on January 20, 2017, 12:01:37 AM
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Boeing Employees

I just got this email from a retired Boeing engineer named "Frank." I think it has value and is worthy of consideration:

*********************

I read the articles about the D. B. Cooper investigation.  This might help.

I was an engineer in the Aerospace division at Boeing for 40 years.   We worked on military, space and other projects that didn’t fit anywhere else.  D. B. Cooper was a big discussion topic.  We realized that he could be a Boeing employee who had been a paratrooper.

There was a small group of experts that led the effort to use composite and other new material for aerospace structures.  If you were planning to use a new material or subjecting a material to unusual stress you consulted with them.  It was a small enough group that all contact I made with them was with the group supervisor.   Maybe D. B. Cooper was part of that group.



Bruce, Why don't you ask "Frank" to inquire among his Boeing associates if the drawings of Cooper look familiar?
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Robert99 on January 20, 2017, 12:04:37 AM
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what would be his motive?

Boeing Aerospace Operations, Inc. was incorporated in 1978 and is based in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. Boeing Aerospace Operations, Inc. operates as a subsidiary of The Boeing Company

Boeing Aerospace Operations probably operates at Tinker AFB, in Oklahoma City, and maintains military aircraft and civilian airliners made by Boeing.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on January 20, 2017, 02:12:14 AM
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Let me remind everyone that on this issue of particles, Tom also found some spores: http://www.citizensleuths.com/pollen.html.  After examining one of those spores Tom found particles embedded in that spore Tom says is a "residue made up of titanium dioxide, silicates and alumina. These materials are typically used for pill coatings [2]. This powder suggests that Cooper would have probably been taking some form of pill on a regular basis."

Tom made the further remark: " Microscopic examination of more than 28 SEM stubs from Cooper's tie revealed a quantity of Lycopodium spores. The Lycopodium spores offer the possibility that Cooper was taking some form of pill during working hours while wearing the tie. A retired pharmacist [3] was consulted as to what family of drug might use an orally ingested tablet that would require anti-stick dust, but no information could be found. Medical histories of potential Cooper suspects might reveal a particular drug that could be associated with the Lycopodium additive and thereby forging a link between the suspect and the crime."

This supports the issue of using medical histories and medical status to help identify a subject.

Georger, I believe that titanium dioxide is also used in the "high speed" paint that is used on spacecraft and some very fast aircraft.

Here are dome other uses: http://printwiki.org/Titanium_Dioxide

Titanium Dioxide
A bright white, insoluble powder (chemical formula TiO2) added to paper pulp as a filler or applied as a coating pigment, and is the most efficient means of increasing paper brightness and opacity. Of the three primary optical brighteners, it is more effective than clay, or calcium carbonate, but is also the most expensive. Titanium dioxide is an oxide of the metal titanium, and is used widely in the manufacture of other materials, such as plastics, leathers, face powders, linoleum, and paints. (See also Fillers.)

Titanium dioxide is also used as a white pigment in printing inks, and has the highest degree of opacity of any white pigment. It accounts for 80% of all the white pigments in use. It is extremely fast-to-light, and resistant to nearly all substances. There are two major grades of titanium dioxide: anatase (bluer, harder, and more opaque) and rutile (less opaque and softer). Various coatings of aluminum, silicon, or zinc oxides can also be added to obtain a variety of desired properties. Titanium dioxide is used in every type of printing ink manufactured. When used in printing ink, titanium dioxide is also called cover white. (See also White Pigments.)

Titanium dioxide seems to be one of the most common things around.  However, chasing down the origins of those other 100,000 particles is going to take a bit of time, at least a week or two. :D

Ti dioxide is also used in paper production including in currency paper ...
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on January 20, 2017, 03:50:46 AM
I've asked Frank to continue this discussion. So far, zippo.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on January 20, 2017, 06:25:59 AM
Quote
Georger, I believe that titanium dioxide is also used in the "high speed" paint that is used on spacecraft and some very fast aircraft.

Tie & paint?
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Robert99 on January 20, 2017, 11:59:43 AM
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Quote
Georger, I believe that titanium dioxide is also used in the "high speed" paint that is used on spacecraft and some very fast aircraft.

Tie & paint?

The fellow who sprays on the paint is probably going to be wearing a "moon suit" and won't come in direct contact with the paint. 
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Robert99 on January 20, 2017, 12:03:13 PM
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Let me remind everyone that on this issue of particles, Tom also found some spores: http://www.citizensleuths.com/pollen.html.  After examining one of those spores Tom found particles embedded in that spore Tom says is a "residue made up of titanium dioxide, silicates and alumina. These materials are typically used for pill coatings [2]. This powder suggests that Cooper would have probably been taking some form of pill on a regular basis."

Tom made the further remark: " Microscopic examination of more than 28 SEM stubs from Cooper's tie revealed a quantity of Lycopodium spores. The Lycopodium spores offer the possibility that Cooper was taking some form of pill during working hours while wearing the tie. A retired pharmacist [3] was consulted as to what family of drug might use an orally ingested tablet that would require anti-stick dust, but no information could be found. Medical histories of potential Cooper suspects might reveal a particular drug that could be associated with the Lycopodium additive and thereby forging a link between the suspect and the crime."

This supports the issue of using medical histories and medical status to help identify a subject.

Georger, I believe that titanium dioxide is also used in the "high speed" paint that is used on spacecraft and some very fast aircraft.

Here are dome other uses: http://printwiki.org/Titanium_Dioxide

Titanium Dioxide
A bright white, insoluble powder (chemical formula TiO2) added to paper pulp as a filler or applied as a coating pigment, and is the most efficient means of increasing paper brightness and opacity. Of the three primary optical brighteners, it is more effective than clay, or calcium carbonate, but is also the most expensive. Titanium dioxide is an oxide of the metal titanium, and is used widely in the manufacture of other materials, such as plastics, leathers, face powders, linoleum, and paints. (See also Fillers.)

Titanium dioxide is also used as a white pigment in printing inks, and has the highest degree of opacity of any white pigment. It accounts for 80% of all the white pigments in use. It is extremely fast-to-light, and resistant to nearly all substances. There are two major grades of titanium dioxide: anatase (bluer, harder, and more opaque) and rutile (less opaque and softer). Various coatings of aluminum, silicon, or zinc oxides can also be added to obtain a variety of desired properties. Titanium dioxide is used in every type of printing ink manufactured. When used in printing ink, titanium dioxide is also called cover white. (See also White Pigments.)

Titanium dioxide seems to be one of the most common things around.  However, chasing down the origins of those other 100,000 particles is going to take a bit of time, at least a week or two. :D

Ti dioxide is also used in paper production including in currency paper ...

One of the things that titanium dioxide is used for is to make the end product as white as possible. 
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Tom Kaye on January 20, 2017, 03:24:53 PM
Interesting tidbit just came in. I thought you guys would like this info.

"I used to work for Boeing Flight test. In the hall ways of the 3-390 bldg there is a photo of a package drop test on a 727. Two men are seen pushing a package out the aft stair doors. This photo was taken in 1968. Every time I walked past it I couldnt help think that DB was part of that test team. Knowing that your looking for someone with exposure to the sonic program, flight test would be where I would start my search.  I cant find the photo right now but it gives credence to your theory. We all know they used the door in Laos but this test was prior to that time period.

Good Luck!
John
"
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Robert99 on January 20, 2017, 04:31:50 PM
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Interesting tidbit just came in. I thought you guys would like this info.

"I used to work for Boeing Flight test. In the hall ways of the 3-390 bldg there is a photo of a package drop test on a 727. Two men are seen pushing a package out the aft stair doors. This photo was taken in 1968. Every time I walked past it I couldnt help think that DB was part of that test team. Knowing that your looking for someone with exposure to the sonic program, flight test would be where I would start my search.  I cant find the photo right now but it gives credence to your theory. We all know they used the door in Laos but this test was prior to that time period.

Good Luck!
John
"

Bruce and/or Meyer,

Make sure that Sailshaw sees the above as soon as possible.  Who knows, maybe someone in Sailshaw's own group had something to do with this in 1968. 
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: 377 on January 20, 2017, 05:11:36 PM
Thanks for the info Tom.

The SAT 727 used for the Thailand drop tests had the pressure door and stairs removed. The film's promotional narrative talks about airdrop ops with an intact pressure door to allow pressurized high altitude flight after dropping, but the test drops of cargo and static line jumpers shown in the film appear to have the door and stairs removed.

Wonder if the Boeing Flight Test flights kept the door on and opened it in flight?

Might a Boeing person know more than an Air America or SAT person with regards to being able to open the door in flight?

377





Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on January 20, 2017, 05:15:33 PM
The pressure door was not removed...
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on January 20, 2017, 05:23:06 PM
You can see the door in the video, and they also explain that they have different configurations, including passenger and cargo. they state they can pressurize the cabin after the drops...the door doesn't block the opening...
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on January 20, 2017, 05:39:29 PM
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Interesting tidbit just came in. I thought you guys would like this info.

"I used to work for Boeing Flight test. In the hall ways of the 3-390 bldg there is a photo of a package drop test on a 727. Two men are seen pushing a package out the aft stair doors. This photo was taken in 1968. Every time I walked past it I couldnt help think that DB was part of that test team. Knowing that your looking for someone with exposure to the sonic program, flight test would be where I would start my search.  I cant find the photo right now but it gives credence to your theory. We all know they used the door in Laos but this test was prior to that time period.

Good Luck!
John
"

Bruce and/or Meyer,

Make sure that Sailshaw sees the above as soon as possible.  Who knows, maybe someone in Sailshaw's own group had something to do with this in 1968.

That's interesting!  Frankly Im not surprised because in house, companies often like to advertise/highlight their company accomplishments with photos on walls. Its good that somebody had the presence of mind to pass this along. Kudos to them!  8)

And congrats to Tom!
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: 377 on January 20, 2017, 06:31:59 PM
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You can see the door in the video, and they also explain that they have different configurations, including passenger and cargo. they state they can pressurize the cabin after the drops...the door doesn't block the opening...

I don't think that is the pressure bulkhead door in the photo Shutter, but I could be wrong.

This article implies that 727s doors were sealed post NORJACK and before the FAA mandated Cooper Vane install. The Vane does not prevent the door from opening, it just prevents the stairs from lowering as I recall.

https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1917&dat=19720718&id=33chAAAAIBAJ&sjid=mokFAAAAIBAJ&pg=638,597780&hl=en

377

Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: 377 on January 20, 2017, 06:39:48 PM
Is that open door a lav door or a non pressure rear door?

Look at the attached photo.

377

Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Robert99 on January 20, 2017, 06:59:49 PM
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You can see the door in the video, and they also explain that they have different configurations, including passenger and cargo. they state they can pressurize the cabin after the drops...the door doesn't block the opening...

I don't think that is the pressure bulkhead door in the photo Shutter, but I could be wrong.

This article implies that 727s doors were sealed post NORJACK and before the FAA mandated Cooper Vane install. The Vane does not prevent the door from opening, it just prevents the stairs from lowering as I recall.

https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1917&dat=19720718&id=33chAAAAIBAJ&sjid=mokFAAAAIBAJ&pg=638,597780&hl=en

377

I'm with Shutter on this.  The aft pressure bulkhead is part of the aircraft structure and would not be easily changed without a lot of Boeing structural engineers getting involved.

Every airliner that I have entered by means of a rear stairs required stepping over about a six inch high part of the structural bulkhead that stuck up above the aisle walkway.  Usually with a flight attendant standing near it and telling you to watch your step.

And I don't remember anyone having a problem with the door in the rear pressure bulkhead.  It always opened out of the way.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on January 20, 2017, 07:29:18 PM
while the door is open it doesn't breach the thru-way...cargo would be a couple inches shorter in width to insure it would go out the back...when the drops are done, they simply close the door and pressurize the cabin....
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on January 20, 2017, 07:29:47 PM
KING 5 - TV, NBC Seattle Update

Chris Ingalls at KING 5 is reporting to night that the Citizen Sleuth website has had over 100,000 views, and that Tom and the gang have received plenty of tips. Some "have legs," Ingalls reports Tom as saying.

Besides what we're exploring, I wonder what other info is being passed into the DBC Gristmill?
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: 377 on January 20, 2017, 07:36:08 PM
I was wrong and stand corrected. Stairs were removed but door stayed on. I reviewed some WFFC video footage of the DC 9 jumps. Pressure door remained on and was just propped open. It didn't impede exits at all. I assume 727 was the same.

Wouldn't that be cool if the tie particles helped solve the case? Fingers crossed!

377
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on January 20, 2017, 07:42:38 PM
It's a good lead, but I find it funny that people think Cooper saw the picture of the boxes being dropped, but couldn't think of this while at the airport watching the stairs go up and down...
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on January 20, 2017, 07:44:41 PM
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KING 5 - TV, NBC Seattle Update

Chris Ingalls at KING 5 is reporting to night that the Citizen Sleuth website has had over 100,000 views, and that Tom and the gang have received plenty of tips. Some "have legs," Ingalls reports Tom as saying.

Besides what we're exploring, I wonder what other info is being passed into the DBC Gristmill?


It's probably similar to the crime tips hotline. once they open those up everyone calls in with all kinds of wild stories. he will have to weed through everything for the goodies...
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on January 20, 2017, 11:17:03 PM
http://telephone.bouwman.com/Boeing/Linker/Plant2.html
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: FLYJACK on January 21, 2017, 09:02:08 PM
Yttrium has many uses.. CRT's was a big one.. but there are many

Wasn't the tie polyester..

1966 Monsanto patent,, Yttruim used in the production of polyester.. polyethylene terephthalate used for clothing etc,

http://www.google.com/patents/US3523104

YTTRIUM COMPOUNDS AS CATALYSTS IN THE PRODUCTION OF POLYESTERS Frank Dobinson, Chapel Hill, N.C., assignor to Monsanto Company, St. Louis, Mo., a corporation of Delaware N Drawing. Filed Dec. 21, 1966, Ser. No. 603,450


Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on January 21, 2017, 09:09:36 PM
I think these elements are on the tie vs in the tie. you would probably need to take a sample of the tie to try and get it's construction, or what it was made of?
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: FLYJACK on January 21, 2017, 09:38:15 PM
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I think these elements are on the tie vs in the tie. you would probably need to take a sample of the tie to try and get it's construction, or what it was made of?

The polyester production was an example..

Many more Yttrium uses here, (there are even more)

search doc "Yttrium" some interesting ones in there..

http://www.rareearthtechalliance.com/Resources/The-Economic-Benefits-of-the-North-American-Rare-Earths-Industry.pdf
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on January 21, 2017, 09:55:21 PM
I agree, we need to research all angles of the elements.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Tom Kaye on January 21, 2017, 10:36:01 PM

So you know, yes we did get hundreds of emails. As you can guess, 99% of them were "Check this person out!!" and quite useless. The one I posted was the only one that had any useful information. We are currently emailing with a guy, who knows a guy, that was in CRT production in Tektronix. We will see if that goes anywhere.  One guy emailed through an anonymous email system and told me to answer under a header on Craig's list. Then he emailed again saying how disappointed he was....

As has been our way in the past we will make any research we come up with public.

Tom Kaye
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on January 21, 2017, 10:41:32 PM
Thanks Tom, we appreciate you keeping us up to date on this....
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Parrotheadvol on January 22, 2017, 07:49:02 PM
http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/northwest/does-that-evidence-truly-tie-db-cooper-to-boeing-plot-thickens/

I found this article to be interesting. Especially the part where the former Boeing employee speaks about how common the clip on ties were.

I'm curious if the thousand plus suspects the FBI had included any former Tektronix employees.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: FLYJACK on January 22, 2017, 09:14:41 PM
breakthrough,,

I found evidence that the tie was actually much older than thought..

it was made between 1959-1965..  6-12 yrs old at the time of the hijacking
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: MeyerLouie on January 24, 2017, 04:00:09 AM
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I finally saw the Expedition Unknown show - got the DVD from Amanda today, via Fed Ex! Woo-hoo.

Kudos to all. Great show. Well done. One of the apparent ironies of Hollywood, fame, etc. is that UE paid for the McCrone Group testing, found the rare earth metals, and developed the new leads with Tom - but NBC news and the Seattle reporter Chris Ingalls got the glory, as his news piece about all of that has gone viral around the world.


From Meyer:
Bruce:  How'd you get the DVD?  I wouldn't mind having a copy.  Just email Amanda?  I agree, well done, entertaining, it was great to be involved.  Meyer


Yes, Meyer. Just email Amanda. I asked last week and I received a copy in a few days. I'm wondering how to download it to another disc, or to my hard drive so I can send out copies. Hmmm. That might take awhile for me to figure out.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

You can burn a CD no doubt.  Sending it out might be one unwieldy, huge file.  Don't know how that would work.  Sending it as a zip file used to work, but that was the good ol' days. You might have copyright issues too. 

I just emailed Amanda.  Did you see the crew in the Expedition Unknown program when they all did the bar shoot in Portland, when they were toasting Josh for having visited all 50 states, and they had 50 little beers?  I recognized most everyone from the crew in the shot -- Caylie was right there, our director who miked us up, Amanda, and all the rest -- was pretty cool to see the whole crew all at once.

Meyer
Meyer
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: FLYJACK on January 24, 2017, 08:37:59 AM
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breakthrough,,

I found evidence that the tie was actually much older than thought..

it was made between 1959-1965..  6-12 yrs old at the time of the hijacking

update, with help from Georger, Cooper tie was manufactured around 1965 +/- six months, evidence laid out in clues thread

The tie was about six years old at the time of the hijacking
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Robert99 on January 24, 2017, 11:41:10 AM
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I finally saw the Expedition Unknown show - got the DVD from Amanda today, via Fed Ex! Woo-hoo.

Kudos to all. Great show. Well done. One of the apparent ironies of Hollywood, fame, etc. is that UE paid for the McCrone Group testing, found the rare earth metals, and developed the new leads with Tom - but NBC news and the Seattle reporter Chris Ingalls got the glory, as his news piece about all of that has gone viral around the world.


From Meyer:
Bruce:  How'd you get the DVD?  I wouldn't mind having a copy.  Just email Amanda?  I agree, well done, entertaining, it was great to be involved.  Meyer


Yes, Meyer. Just email Amanda. I asked last week and I received a copy in a few days. I'm wondering how to download it to another disc, or to my hard drive so I can send out copies. Hmmm. That might take awhile for me to figure out.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

You can burn a CD no doubt.  Sending it out might be one unwieldy, huge file.  Don't know how that would work.  Sending it as a zip file used to work, but that was the good ol' days. You might have copyright issues too. 

I just emailed Amanda.  Did you see the crew in the Expedition Unknown program when they all did the bar shoot in Portland, when they were toasting Josh for having visited all 50 states, and they had 50 little beers?  I recognized most everyone from the crew in the shot -- Caylie was right there, our director who miked us up, Amanda, and all the rest -- was pretty cool to see the whole crew all at once.

Meyer
Meyer

Meyer,

What are you talking about here?  What 50 little beers at a bar in Portland?  What episode is that in?

But the EU crew did shoot at least 60 minutes worth of material at Tina Bar.  Maybe they will present more on Tina Bar in future "out takes" programs or such.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on January 24, 2017, 06:30:29 PM
Meyer - I remember seeing the pub scene with the 50 shots of beer - but no, I didn't recognize anyone!

As for "so little on the scene vs: how long they shot," R99, all I can say is: "Welcome to Hollywood." The TC actually put a fair amount of our work on the screen. That said, I thought they went particularly skinny on your contributions.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: FLYJACK on January 24, 2017, 06:34:36 PM
The pub scene was a Expedition Unknown crew celebration that Josh has visited his 50th State.. nothing to with Cooper case.

The EU Cooper show is on youtube here in Canada, but blocked in the US,, there are few complete vids of it on Dailymotion.com but I don't know if those are also blocked in the US..
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: FLYJACK on January 24, 2017, 07:25:42 PM
Yttrium is used as a stabiliser and mold-former for jet engine turbines among other parts.
https://www.mmta.co.uk/metals/y/

Pratt and Whitney started the JT9D engine program in 1966
http://www.pw.utc.com/Where_Weve_Been
http://www.pw.utc.com/JT9D_Engine

Where was the plant? (they had plants in Canada too..)
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Robert99 on January 24, 2017, 09:43:25 PM
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Meyer - I remember seeing the pub scene with the 50 shots of beer - but no, I didn't recognize anyone!

As for "so little on the scene vs: how long they shot," R99, all I can say is: "Welcome to Hollywood." The TC actually put a fair amount of our work on the screen. That said, I thought they went particularly skinny on your contributions.

Bruce, What bar scene are you and Meyer talking about?  Also, did anyone make sure the college students got a copy of the DVD?

When you, Meyer, and I find Cooper's remains on Caterpillar Island, EU will have a Cooper special and devote the entire show to the Tina Bar area using our out takes.  As you say, that's show business. :)
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on January 25, 2017, 03:20:59 AM
In the Expedition Unknown broadcast, before Josh gets to T- Bar he has a scene in Portland where he samples all the wonders of Portlandia, including spending time in a craft-brewed beer pub. Since Portland is in Oregon - which happens to be the last of the 50 states in the US that Josh has visited - the crew come out and serve him a round of beers. The crew had a platter of 50 shots of beer, and they all toasted Josh.

Meyer says he could identify all of the crew members. Only one guy looked familiar to me - the lead film guy.

That is what I know.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: FLYJACK on January 26, 2017, 12:58:10 PM
Tom Kaye radio interview..

https://youtu.be/RUTOsWeDRk8?t=3986


not sure why Kaye discounts the partial DNA even if it found many individuals, a suspect match to any is a clincher

and Manitoba isn't the only place for Canadian French speakers without an accent..

Mallairdville, in a suburb of Vancouver BC was a large Francophone community.. 2.5 hours North of Seattle.

My family is from there.. my family was fully bilingual and had no french accent..
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Prospector on January 26, 2017, 02:00:35 PM
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Tom Kaye radio interview..

https://youtu.be/RUTOsWeDRk8?t=3986


not sure why Kaye discounts the partial DNA even if it found many individuals, a suspect match to any is a clincher

and Manitoba isn't the only place for Canadian French speakers without an accent..

Mallairdville, in a suburb of Vancouver BC was a large Francophone community.. 2.5 hours North of Seattle.

My family is from there.. my family was fully bilingual and had no french accent..

BANG ON!! – Research Port Moody.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: MeyerLouie on January 27, 2017, 02:15:59 AM
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I finally saw the Expedition Unknown show - got the DVD from Amanda today, via Fed Ex! Woo-hoo.

Kudos to all. Great show. Well done. One of the apparent ironies of Hollywood, fame, etc. is that UE paid for the McCrone Group testing, found the rare earth metals, and developed the new leads with Tom - but NBC news and the Seattle reporter Chris Ingalls got the glory, as his news piece about all of that has gone viral around the world.


From Meyer:
Bruce:  How'd you get the DVD?  I wouldn't mind having a copy.  Just email Amanda?  I agree, well done, entertaining, it was great to be involved.  Meyer


Yes, Meyer. Just email Amanda. I asked last week and I received a copy in a few days. I'm wondering how to download it to another disc, or to my hard drive so I can send out copies. Hmmm. That might take awhile for me to figure out.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

You can burn a CD no doubt.  Sending it out might be one unwieldy, huge file.  Don't know how that would work.  Sending it as a zip file used to work, but that was the good ol' days. You might have copyright issues too. 

I just emailed Amanda.  Did you see the crew in the Expedition Unknown program when they all did the bar shoot in Portland, when they were toasting Josh for having visited all 50 states, and they had 50 little beers?  I recognized most everyone from the crew in the shot -- Caylie was right there, our director who miked us up, Amanda, and all the rest -- was pretty cool to see the whole crew all at once.

Meyer
Meyer

Meyer,

What are you talking about here?  What 50 little beers at a bar in Portland?  What episode is that in?

But the EU crew did shoot at least 60 minutes worth of material at Tina Bar.  Maybe they will present more on Tina Bar in future "out takes" programs or such.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In the Travel Channel program (that you, R99, and me are in), when Josh goes to Portland, Josh and the crew are in a Portland bar, they are celebrating Josh having just visited all 50 states. Hence the 50 baby beers (that they are apparently going to drink).   The whole crew is standing there with Josh, the crew we worked with -- Amanda, Caylie, and the rest.  When Josh gets to Portland, watch carefully, the whole crew is in the segment.

Meyer
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: MeyerLouie on January 27, 2017, 02:20:24 AM
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Meyer - I remember seeing the pub scene with the 50 shots of beer - but no, I didn't recognize anyone!

As for "so little on the scene vs: how long they shot," R99, all I can say is: "Welcome to Hollywood." The TC actually put a fair amount of our work on the screen. That said, I thought they went particularly skinny on your contributions.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Look carefully at that pub scene, the entire crew we worked with is in it.  The set director who miked us up, Caylie, Josh, Amanda (she isn't there very long, watch carefully), the tall young kid on the adventure of a lifetime -- I think they're all there.

Meyer
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: MeyerLouie on January 27, 2017, 02:23:36 AM
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Meyer - I remember seeing the pub scene with the 50 shots of beer - but no, I didn't recognize anyone!

As for "so little on the scene vs: how long they shot," R99, all I can say is: "Welcome to Hollywood." The TC actually put a fair amount of our work on the screen. That said, I thought they went particularly skinny on your contributions.

Bruce, What bar scene are you and Meyer talking about?  Also, did anyone make sure the college students got a copy of the DVD?

When you, Meyer, and I find Cooper's remains on Caterpillar Island, EU will have a Cooper special and devote the entire show to the Tina Bar area using our out takes.  As you say, that's show business. :)

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Let the search begin, R99.  Let's do it! 

Meyer
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Robert99 on January 27, 2017, 11:36:53 AM
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I finally saw the Expedition Unknown show - got the DVD from Amanda today, via Fed Ex! Woo-hoo.

Kudos to all. Great show. Well done. One of the apparent ironies of Hollywood, fame, etc. is that UE paid for the McCrone Group testing, found the rare earth metals, and developed the new leads with Tom - but NBC news and the Seattle reporter Chris Ingalls got the glory, as his news piece about all of that has gone viral around the world.


From Meyer:
Bruce:  How'd you get the DVD?  I wouldn't mind having a copy.  Just email Amanda?  I agree, well done, entertaining, it was great to be involved.  Meyer


Yes, Meyer. Just email Amanda. I asked last week and I received a copy in a few days. I'm wondering how to download it to another disc, or to my hard drive so I can send out copies. Hmmm. That might take awhile for me to figure out.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

You can burn a CD no doubt.  Sending it out might be one unwieldy, huge file.  Don't know how that would work.  Sending it as a zip file used to work, but that was the good ol' days. You might have copyright issues too. 

I just emailed Amanda.  Did you see the crew in the Expedition Unknown program when they all did the bar shoot in Portland, when they were toasting Josh for having visited all 50 states, and they had 50 little beers?  I recognized most everyone from the crew in the shot -- Caylie was right there, our director who miked us up, Amanda, and all the rest -- was pretty cool to see the whole crew all at once.

Meyer
Meyer

Meyer,

What are you talking about here?  What 50 little beers at a bar in Portland?  What episode is that in?

But the EU crew did shoot at least 60 minutes worth of material at Tina Bar.  Maybe they will present more on Tina Bar in future "out takes" programs or such.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In the Travel Channel program (that you, R99, and me are in), when Josh goes to Portland, Josh and the crew are in a Portland bar, they are celebrating Josh having just visited all 50 states. Hence the 50 baby beers (that they are apparently going to drink).   The whole crew is standing there with Josh, the crew we worked with -- Amanda, Caylie, and the rest.  When Josh gets to Portland, watch carefully, the whole crew is in the segment.

Meyer

I must confess that I saw the entire bar scene in the original airing of the episode.  Apparently, it just didn't sink in.  However, I recorded the episode and have reviewed the bar scene several times and do in fact recognize several of the crew members.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Robert99 on January 27, 2017, 11:40:43 AM
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Meyer - I remember seeing the pub scene with the 50 shots of beer - but no, I didn't recognize anyone!

As for "so little on the scene vs: how long they shot," R99, all I can say is: "Welcome to Hollywood." The TC actually put a fair amount of our work on the screen. That said, I thought they went particularly skinny on your contributions.

Bruce, What bar scene are you and Meyer talking about?  Also, did anyone make sure the college students got a copy of the DVD?

When you, Meyer, and I find Cooper's remains on Caterpillar Island, EU will have a Cooper special and devote the entire show to the Tina Bar area using our out takes.  As you say, that's show business. :)

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Let the search begin, R99.  Let's do it! 

Meyer

Okay!
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: dice on January 27, 2017, 09:09:03 PM
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breakthrough,,

I found evidence that the tie was actually much older than thought..

it was made between 1959-1965..  6-12 yrs old at the time of the hijacking

And yet, another piece of evidence pointing to Dan LeClair, who worked those years in industrial chemicals, and then worked as a hotel maintenance do all in the years running up to 1971.
It
Was
LeClair
Folks
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on January 27, 2017, 09:10:49 PM
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breakthrough,,

I found evidence that the tie was actually much older than thought..

it was made between 1959-1965..  6-12 yrs old at the time of the hijacking

And yet, another piece of evidence pointing to Dan LeClair, who worked those years in industrial chemicals, and then worked as a hotel maintenance do all in the years running up to 1971.
It
Was
LeClair
Folks


can you place him anywhere near Portland on November of 1971?
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on January 30, 2017, 12:48:51 AM
Romantic Triangle Between Barb Dayton and Ron and Pat Forman Revealed in New DB Cooper Production


That's a joke!

But, I just saw the World Premier of "db" a highly speculative account of Norjak, penned by NYC playwright Tommy Smith in the CoHo Theater in Portland. It was a HOOT! And yes, we see Ron Forman kiss Barb Dayton, the transgender skyjacker!

I loved the show immensely, even though it often took extreme liberties with the known truths of DB Cooper. But much of it is authentic and accurate, and the sum total is raucous fun and theatrical joy. I laughed a lot, and cried at the end when Cooper jumped.

Think: Saturday Night Live goes to Ariel.

The 75-minute play is divvied into five main sections, with each portion being a skit involving Norjak principals.

The first bit was an introduction to Tina and Flo, and what their lives were like as "stews," as flight attendants were known throughout the industry at the time.

The next section was a 20-minute sketch of Jo and Duane Weber that followed the arc of their relationship from first date to the deathbed scene. Some of the pieces made me HOWL with laughter, and Jo will be burning up the phone lines when she reads this to learn more of the details. The scenes of Jo talking to her girlfriend on the phone about Duane are equal to any of the comedic sketches that Lily Tomlin has ever delivered.

Next up was an ensemble piece that wove the Barb Dayton skyjack scenario into imaginative portrayals of her life as a man, a barroom brawler, and a woman who just couldn't help herself from falling in love with Ron Forman. By the way, Ron is an African American and Pat is nerdy, alcoholic, suburban shrew. The scenes that have Ron and Pat speaking at Norjak conferences as the authors of The Legend of DB Cooper - their story about the Barb Dayton confession - are hilarious. Their struggle for control of the microphone as their audiences empties out of the room is played so convincingly by the actors, and written with such authenticity that it carries all the other flights of fancy to sublime satisfaction.

Who else but Twisty Butt and Uncle LD could follow next. But Marla is portrayed as an 8-year old vixen having an unhealthy relationship with Uncle LD. The booze and the Cooper Family brawling mingle with turkey hunts and lascivious winks and cuddles, and it all adds up to a rich tapestry of DB Cooper possibilities.

Lastly, Uncle LD takes his slimy redneck self on board Flight 305 and plies Tina with morphine to calm her nerves, and verbally digs into her Catholicism. Think Duck Dynasty meets Carl Jung. It is chilling.

That bit also sets up the most speculative portion of the play - a ten-minute piece that explores Tina's inner emotional world. The stage is lit entirely in deep red, suggesting unconscious musings sullen with fear. As the regular stage lights come back on in bright white, Tina shows up at the abbey, and the audience noticeably flinches when a nun appears. Tina says she is yearning for a place to be that has no men, not even priests, and begs for entry. Skeptical, the nun questions her devotion to God, and Tina simply says: "I can do that." She is admitted.

Throughout the play, all of the DB Cooper characters wear the clothes they use as their individual personas: Duane in plaid slacks, LD in Carhartts, Barb in a pony tail, jeans, and a ball cap.

But in the finale, DB Cooper appears in his full black suit. His presence is commanding and riveting. Wordlessly he takes center stage. Tina screams and bustles about, but Cooper ignores her. He pulls the door handle from right to left, and opens the aft stair door. Mist swirls in and the engines roar. He slowly descends, and then jumps.

The production of  “db” will continue at the CoHo through next weekend, February 4th. Theater manager Jessica Dent told me that the playwright is endeavoring to have the production move to New York City for performances there, and then with increased publicity be picked up by Hollywood. In the meantime, I encouraged her to find a way to make DVD copies of the production available somehow to the denizens of Cooper World. Gawd knows we could use a good laugh.

If you would like to see the full piece with pix, c'mon over to the Mountain News:

https://themountainnewswa.net/2017/01/29/romantic-triangle-between-barb-dayton-and-ron-and-pat-forman-revealed-in-new-db-cooper-production/
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: 377 on January 30, 2017, 12:38:51 PM
Great review Bruce. This play is sure to mightily ruffle some feathers. Let the fun begin.

Does the play call Marla Twisty Butt? I hope not. That derogatory name is undeserved. Marla is attractive and gets attention because of her good looks, but in her Portland presentation and every TV interview I've seen she didn't do anything deserving of this insulting moniker. I think Jo gave the name to Marla.  Jo was pissed that Marla was stealing media thunder from her Mrs. Cooper story.

I am not a PC kind of guy. This isn't political correctness.  It's simply a call for being respectful.

377
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: dice on January 30, 2017, 05:54:12 PM
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breakthrough,,

I found evidence that the tie was actually much older than thought..

it was made between 1959-1965..  6-12 yrs old at the time of the hijacking

And yet, another piece of evidence pointing to Dan LeClair, who worked those years in industrial chemicals, and then worked as a hotel maintenance do all in the years running up to 1971.
It
Was
LeClair
Folks


can you place him anywhere near Portland on November of 1971?

If Gunther's Clara was telling the truth, that he was a maintenance guy for a hotel on the Portland outskirts, then she can.... So lets find her.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on January 30, 2017, 05:55:05 PM
again, given the age of the suspect, and the age of the book, how old would Clara be now?
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on January 30, 2017, 06:05:02 PM
"telling the truth" is a key factor here....
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on January 30, 2017, 07:43:00 PM
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Great review Bruce. This play is sure to mightily ruffle some feathers. Let the fun begin.

Does the play call Marla Twisty Butt? I hope not. That derogatory name is undeserved. Marla is attractive and gets attention because of her good looks, but in her Portland presentation and every TV interview I've seen she didn't do anything deserving of this insulting moniker. I think Jo gave the name to Marla.  Jo was pissed that Marla was stealing media thunder from her Mrs. Cooper story.

I am not a PC kind of guy. This isn't political correctness.  It's simply a call for being respectful.

377

The play does not call her Twisty Butt. That is strictly my own nickname for her. Yes, I did hear it originally from Jo.

Disrespectful? Me? Yougottabekiddingme. Marla's the woman with four ex-husbands, another ex-boyfriend or two, and a child out of wedlock, etc. Don't you remember the Good Ole Days at the DZ when all of this stuff was flyin' around?

And Gawd Knows how many goo-goo eyes she made at Curtis...
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on January 31, 2017, 07:04:58 AM
"Twisty Butt" would be one of the nicer terms for here IMO.

I think she is dishonest, and is, or was seeking attention, and possible attention in hopes of becoming a writer as she stated in the past. the History show segment showed how out of touch she really was with the case, or reaching to the extreme...she looked foolish IMO. I believe she has said much worse in the past about people.

Here story changed often, similar to the KC saga..."those two deserve each other"  O0
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on January 31, 2017, 06:10:04 PM
Has anyone listened to this interview with Tom? go a little over one hour into the video...

.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUTOsWeDRk8
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: FLYJACK on January 31, 2017, 07:49:16 PM
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Has anyone listened to this interview with Tom? go a little over one hour into the video...

.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUTOsWeDRk8

I posted this interview earlier in this thread but Kaye makes an error about Canadian bilingual accents,

Manitoba isn't the only place for Canadian French speakers without an accent..

Mallairdville, in a suburb of Vancouver BC was a large (blue collar/ex military) Francophone community.. 2.5 hours North of Seattle.

My family is from there.. they were fully bilingual and had no french accent..


and not sure why Kaye discounts the partial DNA even if they found many individuals, a suspect match to any is a clincher


.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on January 31, 2017, 08:12:25 PM
Great interview. Thanks, Shut.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on January 31, 2017, 08:13:50 PM
Tom says that they found 14 or 15 DNA samples on the tie. I'll be emailing Tom on and that, and encouraging him to post his explanation here.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on January 31, 2017, 08:25:01 PM
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Tom says that they found 14 or 15 DNA samples on the tie. I'll be emailing Tom on and that, and encouraging him to post his explanation here.

I must of missed that part, I'll check it out...I noticed a couple error's. as far as I know Cooper didn't have a switch on the bomb. he said if he connected the wires, it would go boom...then the flights of the SR71 not finding anything....no photo's were taken...cloud cover...
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on January 31, 2017, 08:33:58 PM
If Brian said "just rolled up so gingerly" what does he mean by "rolled up" that could imply the tractor pushing the bills while they were spreading the sand. they would of been wet (wad/clump of bills)
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on January 31, 2017, 11:28:51 PM
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If Brian said "just rolled up so gingerly" what does he mean by "rolled up" that could imply the tractor pushing the bills while they were spreading the sand. they would of been wet (wad/clump of bills)

He doesn't know what he means - and that is the LITERAL TRUTH! It's just an expression he has come by - who knows the source but I doubt it is his. He heard somebody say something like this so picked it up for himself, on the moment. Brian is not a "deep thinker" if you get my drift. But he does like a little stardom and fame, if he can stay in control and hide when he needs to ...

He thinks the water 'rolled the bills up on the shoreline'. That's what he thinks. That is probably the best explanation for what he is saying.

He may be parroting Fazio who said 'the money rolled up with the last tide'. Fazio cited a match between the latest high tide line and the Ingram find location.

'Rolled up gingerly' ... with the tide, or the water, ... like 'Moses rolled the waters back gingerly to let the Israelites pass'. That's what Brian means. Brian sees the power of Nature coordinated and used by God to "roll up human affairs". Brian may also mean that Moses' or somebody's prophecy came true! Brian is not a "deep thinker". But, the lo shall be made high while the high shall be made lo. Man proposes and Nature and God disposes - gingerly with ease.

Or, you can ask him what he means. You will be sitting waiting for an explanation, the final explanation,  for at least a year.

Ask JT what Brian means. JT is Brian's appointed guardian.  :'(



Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on January 31, 2017, 11:39:27 PM
I like JT, but I doubt I would get the answer I was looking for, he gets pretty far out there at times... O0
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on January 31, 2017, 11:40:45 PM
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Tom says that they found 14 or 15 DNA samples on the tie. I'll be emailing Tom on and that, and encouraging him to post his explanation here.

We have waited 8 years for that! I am so glad Tom and Gray and Brian Ingram are now in charge of the Cooper case. Where is Twisty Butt? 

Hmm. 14-15 swabs! Why did Carr withhold this or not know? When did Kaye find out and where? Is this on Gray's site? On Blevins' Gold Rush site? Who the fuck are we - chopped liver? I guess so.

Time to drain the swamp?
 :))
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on January 31, 2017, 11:43:55 PM
Quote
Where is Twisty Butt?

Home....making "Twisty Buns"  8)
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on February 01, 2017, 05:18:23 AM
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Has anyone listened to this interview with Tom? go a little over one hour into the video...

.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUTOsWeDRk8

I posted this interview earlier in this thread but Kaye makes an error about Canadian bilingual accents,

Manitoba isn't the only place for Canadian French speakers without an accent..

Mallairdville, in a suburb of Vancouver BC was a large (blue collar/ex military) Francophone community.. 2.5 hours North of Seattle.

My family is from there.. they were fully bilingual and had no french accent..


and not sure why Kaye discounts the partial DNA even if they found many individuals, a suspect match to any is a clincher

More to the point, what is it the girls meant when they agreed - no accent. Especially since there is no such thing in literal terms. Alas, we will never know ... but Tom and Carol know. For them no accent + Cooper comic + US or American currency = Canada. Eh? And now there will be further technical reasons why Canada is such a good choice, grounded in particles and Titanium and the next thing. It has to be the SR program. Something very hi tech ... like the word "spectroscopy" like "Pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis" which has 45 characters and no accent but is Classified but Tom has been there. !

Tom has a script. The script works for him. That's all that matters.  Who cares about accuracy.  :))
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: FLYJACK on February 01, 2017, 08:13:47 AM
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If Brian said "just rolled up so gingerly" what does he mean by "rolled up" that could imply the tractor pushing the bills while they were spreading the sand. they would of been wet (wad/clump of bills)


In the Cooper Case Closed show...

Dwayne Ingram said He went to TBar to run his dog.. makes sense, it was too cold for a picnic

and

"this weren't scattered, this was all three touching each other and just rolled up so gingerly"

Did Brian also use gingerly somewhere?

Probably shouldn't take Dwaynes statement literally...  :o
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on February 01, 2017, 09:33:36 AM
I forgot about that statement from the show. I was just curious about the statement itself. the only thing that's sticks with me about Brian is the fact of him using the term "petrified"

much like the tie opening doors, I'm hoping to get some answers with testing the money. we can go back and forth all day long on things, or we can get busy trying to actually verify things...

Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: FLYJACK on February 01, 2017, 09:55:43 AM
Here it is in my possession and sealed, tracked this down in Quebec, Canada. It is a Dan Cooper comic, but not just any Dan Cooper comic, it should be loaded with prints and touch DNA from a suspect. When Kaye released the tie particle analysis I thought, whoa this might eliminate this guy, but after going through the list all but one item matches his potential exposure, including the previously known particles. The tie particles actually strengthened the circumstantial case. Suspect was right age, right physical description, military/aviation experience, wore a tie, potentially exposed to virtually all the tie particles, Dan Cooper comic fan, political (grudge?), and much much more… (I can reveal more in a private setting and make the full circumstantial case to advance this)

Very strong circumstantial, only way to solve or eliminate suspect is forensics.. I am NOT saying this HAS TO BE the hijacker but the circumstantial is very strong and I haven’t been able to eliminate. That is why I pursued and obtained his comic and DNA/prints.

I also have pictures of the suspect from late 60’s that can be shown to witnesses.

Josh Gates, Tom Kaye, Geoffrey Gray, just maybe we can solve this..

The FBI has partial DNA profiles but it might be time with new methods to retest the tie for DNA… and compare to this Dan Cooper comic. (or other suspects)

A few years ago it was $2000 per sample for touch DNA, that must be cheaper now. I am also pursuing the possibility for testing at an accredited forensic educational facility, but even if I can get a DNA profile done, we need to compare to the FBI DNA or the tie..
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on February 01, 2017, 10:11:36 AM
Sadly, I don't see the tie being retested in the near future. I would think heavy inside departmental help would have to happen for them to even think about venturing back into the case. Josh Gates wouldn't be a factor either until a lot of new information came about to get his attention.

I realize some protection with your suspect, but holding things back isn't going to help. just present the suspect. you will have to do it sooner or later...we have enough mystery with this case...it's up to you though, I will accept either way...
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on February 01, 2017, 10:17:46 AM
I'm not so sure about political grudges. these are typically made very public and to the point, not hidden. it's usually the whole purpose of doing the crime, not some sort of puzzle to figure out. that's my take on anything related to politics and Cooper...
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: FLYJACK on February 01, 2017, 10:23:53 AM
I don't see why the FBI couldn't be convinced to allow new DNA testing of the tie and clip if they didn't have to pay for it.. 
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on February 01, 2017, 10:26:21 AM
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I don't see why the FBI couldn't be convinced to allow new DNA testing of the tie and clip if they didn't have to pay for it..


They were pretty specific by stating only the money, or items related to proving beyond a doubt it was Cooper would get them to open the case. you can try and see what happens....
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on February 01, 2017, 10:33:55 AM
Robert Blevins tried given them DNA, but he broke the chain of custody as we tried to tell him, but that another story in itself.

Vicki ran into problems with them regarding DNA, I'll let her explain if she wishes..she might give you some tips.

they have had more than there share of circumstantial evidence, I believe that was a factor in closing the case IMO.

you need inside help to try and state your case...
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: FLYJACK on February 01, 2017, 10:53:18 AM
The FBI closed the case because there is virtually no chance of a prosecutable case. The DNA is partial and not useful for court but also the suspect is likely dead. The FBI mandate is to bring a prosecutable case, however this can still be solved using the DNA.. if the FBI sits on the partial DNA profile or doesn't allow further testing of the tie/clip this will never be solved.

I can make a great circumstantial case, but the comic should have DNA/prints..  there is solid evidence linking this book to the suspect

If the DNA or prints from his book match any or partial, he was the hijacker. PERIOD

Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on February 01, 2017, 11:06:41 AM
as I mentioned before, you can try and see if they bite.

https://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/field-offices/seattle/contacts/public-affairs-specialist-ayn-dietrich-williams


Here is what the FBI states..

Although the FBI will no longer actively investigate this case, should specific physical evidence emerge—related specifically to the parachutes or the money taken by the hijacker—individuals with those materials are asked to contact their local FBI field office.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on February 01, 2017, 11:09:15 AM
See if Bruce is willing to work with you. he gets replies from the FBI pretty quick..
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: FLYJACK on February 01, 2017, 11:27:56 AM
Since the FBI mandate for a prosecution conflicts with a potential solve..

IMO, the best path is to convince the FBI to allow a new DNA analysis of the tie/clip NOT using any FBI resources.. that will take somebody with influence..  and a new DNA analysis would be extremely useful going forward..
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on February 01, 2017, 11:32:59 AM
any angle used leads you right to the FBI....
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: dice on February 01, 2017, 11:36:29 AM
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Has anyone listened to this interview with Tom? go a little over one hour into the video...

.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUTOsWeDRk8

the lady on the show mentioned the particles such as the pure titanium, could have come from a company Atlas, in Welland, Ontario, which is ironic, as its rather close to LeClair's supposed birthplace. Makes me wonder if there is any assocation with Gunther deliberately changing locations as agreed to hide the identity of LeClair. He said he was working in industrial chemicals in the early to mid 60s on the east coast.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: FLYJACK on February 01, 2017, 11:42:34 AM
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any angle used leads you right to the FBI....

yes, but I don't think that I am the best one to make the case for a private DNA testing of the tie..
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on February 01, 2017, 11:52:29 AM
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any angle used leads you right to the FBI....

yes, but I don't think that I am the best one to make the case for a private DNA testing of the tie..


Correct, that's why I said you need inside help....
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on February 01, 2017, 12:32:38 PM
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Sadly, I don't see the tie being retested in the near future. I would think heavy inside departmental help would have to happen for them to even think about venturing back into the case. Josh Gates wouldn't be a factor either until a lot of new information came about to get his attention.

I realize some protection with your suspect, but holding things back isn't going to help. just present the suspect. you will have to do it sooner or later...we have enough mystery with this case...it's up to you though, I will accept either way...

Gray and Kaye have already covered that option. Try the RCMP and CSIS who work with the FBI. But you already know that.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: dice on February 01, 2017, 12:47:10 PM
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breakthrough,,

I found evidence that the tie was actually much older than thought..

it was made between 1959-1965..  6-12 yrs old at the time of the hijacking

That time info would correlate, with LeClair, who supposedly worked as industrial chemical salesman on the east coast, during that period.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Robert99 on February 01, 2017, 01:21:43 PM
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Sadly, I don't see the tie being retested in the near future. I would think heavy inside departmental help would have to happen for them to even think about venturing back into the case. Josh Gates wouldn't be a factor either until a lot of new information came about to get his attention.

I realize some protection with your suspect, but holding things back isn't going to help. just present the suspect. you will have to do it sooner or later...we have enough mystery with this case...it's up to you though, I will accept either way...

Gray and Kaye have already covered that option. Try the RCMP and CSIS who work with the FBI. But you already know that.

And don't forget NCIS. :)
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: EVickiW on February 01, 2017, 01:31:25 PM
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Sadly, I don't see the tie being retested in the near future. I would think heavy inside departmental help would have to happen for them to even think about venturing back into the case. Josh Gates wouldn't be a factor either until a lot of new information came about to get his attention.

I realize some protection with your suspect, but holding things back isn't going to help. just present the suspect. you will have to do it sooner or later...we have enough mystery with this case...it's up to you though, I will accept either way...

Gray and Kaye have already covered that option. Try the RCMP and CSIS who work with the FBI. But you already know that.

And don't forget NCIS. :)

Or CODIS and NDIS: https://www.fbi.gov/services/laboratory/biometric-analysis/codis/codis-and-ndis-fact-sheet
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: FLYJACK on February 01, 2017, 01:43:28 PM
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Sadly, I don't see the tie being retested in the near future. I would think heavy inside departmental help would have to happen for them to even think about venturing back into the case. Josh Gates wouldn't be a factor either until a lot of new information came about to get his attention.

I realize some protection with your suspect, but holding things back isn't going to help. just present the suspect. you will have to do it sooner or later...we have enough mystery with this case...it's up to you though, I will accept either way...

Gray and Kaye have already covered that option. Try the RCMP and CSIS who work with the FBI. But you already know that.

And don't forget NCIS. :)

Or CODIS and NDIS: https://www.fbi.gov/services/laboratory/biometric-analysis/codis/codis-and-ndis-fact-sheet

Is the hijacker DNA in CODIS?  didn't think so?
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: dice on February 01, 2017, 03:07:16 PM
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"Twisty Butt" would be one of the nicer terms for here IMO.

I think she is dishonest, and is, or was seeking attention, and possible attention in hopes of becoming a writer as she stated in the past. the History show segment showed how out of touch she really was with the case, or reaching to the extreme...she looked foolish IMO. I believe she has said much worse in the past about people.

Here story changed often, similar to the KC saga..."those two deserve each other"  O0

Speaking of KC, who wasn't Cooper..... I wouldn't be surprised, if he was trying to tell his brother that he was gay....think about it....  A lifelong bachelor, close buddies with that Bernie, and goes away on camping trips with him during Thanksgiving when single people usually wanna be and eat with family, and then tells brother he wanted to tell him something, but cannot, during a time when homosexuality was not tolerated well and considered an illness.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on February 01, 2017, 03:09:45 PM
I'm pretty sure it was already known he was gay..the quote itself doesn't make sense..

"I have a secret, but can't tell you" well, I have a car for sale, but I'm not selling it?

why would he even bring it up if he's not going to tell?
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: dice on February 01, 2017, 03:30:55 PM
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I'm pretty sure it was already known he was gay..the quote itself doesn't make sense..

"I have a secret, but can't tell you" well, I have a car for sale, but I'm not selling it?

why would he even bring it up if he's not going to tell?

Ive never heard that that was known, as I have never seen it mentioned.  To answer your question:  I dont know, other then..... back then in 1971, it was very frowned upon to come out of closet, and thats where most all homosexuals stayed.... he could have feared that his brother wouldn't love him going forward, which is why most closet homosexuals don't come out in the first place.
If that weren't the his reason, maybe he couldn't tell his brother, for fear of implicating the accomplice Bernie, IF he, were Cooper, which I highly doubt.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on February 01, 2017, 03:34:02 PM
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"Twisty Butt" would be one of the nicer terms for here IMO.

I think she is dishonest, and is, or was seeking attention, and possible attention in hopes of becoming a writer as she stated in the past. the History show segment showed how out of touch she really was with the case, or reaching to the extreme...she looked foolish IMO. I believe she has said much worse in the past about people.

Here story changed often, similar to the KC saga..."those two deserve each other"  O0

Speaking of KC, who wasn't Cooper..... I wouldn't be surprised, if he was trying to tell his brother that he was gay....think about it....  A lifelong bachelor, close buddies with that Bernie, and goes away on camping trips with him during Thanksgiving when single people usually wanna be and eat with family, and then tells brother he wanted to tell him something, but cannot, during a time when homosexuality was not tolerated well and considered an illness.

It could be that, or it could be nothing - literally. The problem I have with all of this is I don't trust or believe any of the players! This goes straight to Lyle and his son's credibility. (Blevins is irrelevant in all of this because all of this predates Blevins by years). The one thing we do know is Lyle (etal) went to NYC to get a movie contract - "a good idea" he said. The word truth never entered into any of this as Lyle approached Porteous wanting a contact. Of equal importance is the "fact" that Lyle etal had a history of trying to recruit "talent for Hollywood" in his hometown area. This included girls. It adds up to Lyle being a promoter and a talent agent, trying to sell stories and recruit people to Hollywood. Lyle's claim that his brother had been DB Cooper is just part of the act. Then in an interview Lyle admits publicly its all just "a good idea" and a promotion vs. truth.

It's all history now. Blevins made a shambles of it all.  :))

Jo Weber's "act" is likewise. An act and nothing more.

The same for Marla. Another act the FBI bought into for a short time.

This is the last thing the Cooper case needs.    >:D

Gay? Of course he gay! And his brother knew it, probably since they were kids.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: dice on February 01, 2017, 03:42:39 PM
I am still intrigued by LeClair....  that he was supposedly was an industrial chemical salesman,  which could explain the tie particles, and the entire psychology of him wanting recognition and contacting Gunther but then realizing he can be perpetually prosecuted.... it is very plausible. Of all the suspects, this is the only one, to me, that fits, and fits well.... presuming he even existed.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on February 01, 2017, 03:45:59 PM
It's the same old story with Kenny...Robert claims he was in poverty, but made 3 times the amount of minimum wage in 1971 which was $1.60. it's also my understanding he has went off the wall again over there by himself whining about us again....wonder how he's getting around the latest evidence?
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on February 01, 2017, 03:46:09 PM
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I am still intrigued by LeClair....  that he was supposedly was an industrial chemical salesman,  which could explain the tie particles, and the entire psychology of him wanting recognition and contacting Gunther but then realizing he can be perpetually prosecuted.... it is very plausible. Of all the suspects, this is the only one, to me, that fits, and fits well.... presuming he even existed.

The tie particles have opened a lot of doors ... going waaaaaaaaaay back! There is no way Tom could have anticipated that so it's great work by Tom etal!
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on February 01, 2017, 03:47:08 PM
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I am still intrigued by LeClair....  that he was supposedly was an industrial chemical salesman,  which could explain the tie particles, and the entire psychology of him wanting recognition and contacting Gunther but then realizing he can be perpetually prosecuted.... it is very plausible. Of all the suspects, this is the only one, to me, that fits, and fits well.... presuming he even existed.

The tie particles have opened a lot of doors ... going waaaaaaaaaay back! There is no way Tom could have anticipated that so it's great work by Tom etal!


and slamming doors at the same time  >:D
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on February 01, 2017, 03:47:42 PM
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It's the same old story with Kenny...Robert claims he was in poverty, but made 3 times the amount of minimum wage in 1971 which was $1.60. it's also my understanding he has went off the wall again over there by himself whining about us again....wonder how he's getting around the latest evidence?

Dave its all BULLSHIT - the whole world knows that! And the Marla story likewise. I just cant explain how Eng and Seattle got sucked into this. It must have snuck in, through the back door!!!!!  C:-) O0
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on February 01, 2017, 03:50:03 PM
I think Marla has him beat hands down...
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on February 01, 2017, 04:05:19 PM
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I'm pretty sure it was already known he was gay..the quote itself doesn't make sense..

"I have a secret, but can't tell you" well, I have a car for sale, but I'm not selling it?

why would he even bring it up if he's not going to tell?

Ive never heard that that was known, as I have never seen it mentioned.  To answer your question:  I dont know, other then..... back then in 1971, it was very frowned upon to come out of closet, and thats where most all homosexuals stayed.... he could have feared that his brother wouldn't love him going forward, which is why most closet homosexuals don't come out in the first place.
If that weren't the his reason, maybe he couldn't tell his brother, for fear of implicating the accomplice Bernie, IF he, were Cooper, which I highly doubt.

I think what Lyle did to Kenny is shameless. I think it shows Lyle resented Kenny, probably for Kenny's independence and freedom. Kenny is the brother who broke away and went out into the world, joined the military and struck out on his own ... while Lyle stayed home dreaming of Hollywood! Once Kenny was dead Lyle could do what he wanted with Kenny, at Kenny's expense. "A good idea". It's like a Greek Tragedy. Sibling rivalry and angst. No more and no less. But, we know Kenny was not DB Cooper. Kenny was just Kenny - ie. himself! He lead an interesting decent life and I hope somebody in that family is proud of him. It appears he was a damned good friend to a lot of people. And that is how he should be remembered.  ;)   
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on February 01, 2017, 04:19:27 PM
Tom Kaye clarifies his perspectives, re: radio interview

I emailed Tom regarding some of the questions I had on his comments expressed during the recent After Hours Radio broadcast. Here are the questions and Tom's response. He asks us to keep in mind that his memory might not be complete.

Bruce:
" Hi Tom, I just listened to your recent After Hours Radio interview. Well done, sir. Congrats. A couple of questions:

Q: 1. DNA. I heard you say that 14 or 15 samples of DNA were found on the tie. True? Any Dietrich says three different male samples. Wassup?

A: Well it came from Larry in an offhand comment. He said about a dozen people but not enough to nail anyone.

Q: 2. SR71. I heard that there was endless cloud cover. Hence, no pix.

A: Only one line in the 302's saying the blackbird flew the flight path. No other info.

Q: 3. What's your understanding of the "negotiable American currency"
issue?  I know Scott used those words over the radio, and a telex went out from the cabin using those words, but did Cooper really say that? To whom? Tina? Flo? I read in the debriefs that he used the word, "cash."
What say you?

A:It was on the note Tina or Flo wrote down before bringing it to the captain.

- TK
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on February 01, 2017, 04:34:11 PM
minutes into the hijacking it wasn't reported as cash, but only stated 'denomination not restricted" the notes Schaffner wrote only state $200,000..I believe the interviews with the crew state cash?
George Harrison notes state "$200,000 any denomination"

we have 4 FBI documents stating the SR71 was of no value. this can be found in our vault...towards the bottom marked 1 thru 4


http://website.thedbcooperforum.com/Cooper-Vault/
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on February 01, 2017, 04:51:27 PM
My sense is that Cooper asked for cash, or simply asked for 200,000, and the "negotiable American currency" stuff was added on by those taking notes.

But how can we ever prove it one way or the other until Tina comes forward or DBC surrenders.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: MarkBennett on February 01, 2017, 05:48:48 PM
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"Twisty Butt" would be one of the nicer terms for here IMO.

I think she is dishonest, and is, or was seeking attention, and possible attention in hopes of becoming a writer as she stated in the past. the History show segment showed how out of touch she really was with the case, or reaching to the extreme...she looked foolish IMO. I believe she has said much worse in the past about people.

Here story changed often, similar to the KC saga..."those two deserve each other"  O0

Speaking of KC, who wasn't Cooper..... I wouldn't be surprised, if he was trying to tell his brother that he was gay....think about it....  A lifelong bachelor, close buddies with that Bernie, and goes away on camping trips with him during Thanksgiving when single people usually wanna be and eat with family, and then tells brother he wanted to tell him something, but cannot, during a time when homosexuality was not tolerated well and considered an illness.

It could be that, or it could be nothing - literally. The problem I have with all of this is I don't trust or believe any of the players! This goes straight to Lyle and his son's credibility. (Blevins is irrelevant in all of this because all of this predates Blevins by years). The one thing we do know is Lyle (etal) went to NYC to get a movie contract - "a good idea" he said. The word truth never entered into any of this as Lyle approached Porteous wanting a contact. Of equal importance is the "fact" that Lyle etal had a history of trying to recruit "talent for Hollywood" in his hometown area. This included girls. It adds up to Lyle being a promoter and a talent agent, trying to sell stories and recruit people to Hollywood. Lyle's claim that his brother had been DB Cooper is just part of the act. Then in an interview Lyle admits publicly its all just "a good idea" and a promotion vs. truth.

It's all history now. Blevins made a shambles of it all.  :))

Jo Weber's "act" is likewise. An act and nothing more.

The same for Marla. Another act the FBI bought into for a short time.

This is the last thing the Cooper case needs.    >:D

Gay? Of course he gay! And his brother knew it, probably since they were kids.

I could see how both statements could be true.

Lyle and the rest of Kenny's family may have known he was gay, but it was never talked about and Kenny never acknowledged it.  Kenny might have thought it was still a "secret", even though the family knew it for years.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on February 01, 2017, 05:54:57 PM
A quote from Blevins in 2013...

Lyle Christiansen (Kenny's brother) and Kenny's nephew Bruce Christiansen have both said that the family knew Kenny was gay from about the time Kenny was sixteen years old.

The lack of having a girlfriend since he was 16 might let the cat out of the bag. I doubt Kenny was the only one who knew this from such an early age...
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on February 01, 2017, 05:56:09 PM
The whole statement is designed to appear he was trying to say he was Cooper....more drama to add to the stew...
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Parrotheadvol on February 01, 2017, 07:05:40 PM
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I'm pretty sure it was already known he was gay..the quote itself doesn't make sense..

"I have a secret, but can't tell you" well, I have a car for sale, but I'm not selling it?

why would he even bring it up if he's not going to tell?

Ive never heard that that was known, as I have never seen it mentioned.  To answer your question:  I dont know, other then..... back then in 1971, it was very frowned upon to come out of closet, and thats where most all homosexuals stayed.... he could have feared that his brother wouldn't love him going forward, which is why most closet homosexuals don't come out in the first place.
If that weren't the his reason, maybe he couldn't tell his brother, for fear of implicating the accomplice Bernie, IF he, were Cooper, which I highly doubt.

I think what Lyle did to Kenny is shameless. I think it shows Lyle resented Kenny, probably for Kenny's independence and freedom. Kenny is the brother who broke away and went out into the world, joined the military and struck out on his own ... while Lyle stayed home dreaming of Hollywood! Once Kenny was dead Lyle could do what he wanted with Kenny, at Kenny's expense. "A good idea". It's like a Greek Tragedy. Sibling rivalry and angst. No more and no less. But, we know Kenny was not DB Cooper. Kenny was just Kenny - ie. himself! He lead an interesting decent life and I hope somebody in that family is proud of him. It appears he was a damned good friend to a lot of people. And that is how he should be remembered.  ;)   

I agree, but take it a step further. Kenny's been shit on by his brother and several of his "friends" and family. These people want him to be Cooper, because it's their claim to fame. They can say they knew DB Cooper, or they borrowed money from DB Cooper. They should all be ashamed. I actually wonder how well some of them even knew Kenny. Robert has quoted one of them several times as saying that Kenny "always seemed like a nice guy". Do you say that about someone you know well? The word "seemed" is a word you would use about someone you don't know that well. It's all bullshit.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on February 01, 2017, 07:18:47 PM
Well, as we have all stated a hundred times. none of the witnesses have come forward, so it's only one person telling the story. we all know he would blow a gasket if reversed. (source please, talk is cheap, when I see it, Ill believe it) but just not in his case? he also claims this forum is "slanted"..he has zero proof of anything....

This should give him plenty of material to post in the near future...
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: FLYJACK on February 01, 2017, 08:13:18 PM
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breakthrough,,

I found evidence that the tie was actually much older than thought..

it was made between 1959-1965..  6-12 yrs old at the time of the hijacking

That time info would correlate, with LeClair, who supposedly worked as industrial chemical salesman on the east coast, during that period.

I nailed it down further, the tie manufacture date was 1965 +/- 6 months..

It was 6 years old, NOT 1-2 years

And GG made an error. The Penny's manager said the store bought in bulk forty dozen at a time, not a third party.

"First the russet colored suit and now the J.C. Penney clip on tie...not only was it not a classy piece of clothing, but it was designed for busboys and workers, purchased "forty dozen" at a time. Who buys clip on ties forty dozen at a time? Large hotels? Airline pilots?"
GG
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: dice on February 01, 2017, 08:22:50 PM
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I think Marla has him beat hands down...

Oh cmon....   LeClair's profession could have been anything.... and Clara just happens to hit the jackpot ?   This alone is why one should take Gunther's episode much more seriously.....  the fact is, to me the single biggest reason why the case was never solved in 45 years, was what Bruce said on the radio about how Hoover would give a big reward to the solver, and thus all the FBI offices and divisions were trying to score it for themselves, putting out disinfo, not sharing, etc... this is why so much crap is out there.    the next reason in line why it hasn't been solved is cognitive dissonance...the inability for many to believe, what they have unknowingly been indirectly conditioned, not to believe. Because it cannot be proven, so it is ridiculed, and thus discounted as even being possible.     Gunther wasn't about to throw away his writing career and reputation, to claim this really happened, unless he believed it wholeheartedly.... and for Clara to make it up on the fly, and not a thing contradicted yet, then she deserves an Oscar six times over....
I am aware that it is hard to say anything about it, for the triumvirate of Gunther, LeClair, and Clara, are all gone....  but one cannot argue that its moot....not after this tie evidence.   I guess me and Marty are the only ones who would bet that Cooper is LeClair.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on February 01, 2017, 08:41:16 PM
I meant she beat him hands down on publicity and stealing his thunder, or all around attention to her suspect vs his. she ended up on countless television shows, and news programs...
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Parrotheadvol on February 01, 2017, 08:49:17 PM
And Blevy wound up on Decoded, where the 3 people on the show concluded he was wrong about Bernie.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on February 01, 2017, 11:35:10 PM
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I meant she beat him hands down on publicity and stealing his thunder, or all around attention to her suspect vs his. she ended up on countless television shows, and news programs...

She's more photogenic and her story wasn't 'completely' crazy.  :)) Marla stuck pretty much on script while these other twits added 700 more chapters, each one further out in the Ozone than the last. Plus, Marla didn't like controversy while the others relished in it. 
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: FLYJACK on February 02, 2017, 11:16:40 PM
The Expedition Unknown episode ran again here in Canada and GG stated..

"the stakes are very high"

What does that mean?

.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on February 02, 2017, 11:40:25 PM
who ever finds him dead, or alive will become famous, and possibly filling the pockets full of $$$$. you would be known world wide...it's a gambling term...
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on February 02, 2017, 11:46:36 PM
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who ever finds him dead, or alive will become famous, and possibly filling the pockets full of $$$$. you would be known world wide...it's a gambling term...

Anyone who id's (finds) DB Cooper will earn a lifetime pass to the Mackinac Island Steak Festival. Held every year following the Chicago to Mackinac boat race.   ;)
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on February 02, 2017, 11:52:15 PM
Somewhere in time, Christopher Reeve....I believe that's the same hotel?
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on February 03, 2017, 12:20:11 AM
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Somewhere in time, Christopher Reeve....I believe that's the same hotel?

Yes. 
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: FLYJACK on February 03, 2017, 09:21:51 AM
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who ever finds him dead, or alive will become famous, and possibly filling the pockets full of $$$$. you would be known world wide...it's a gambling term...

Fame is over rated and in this case likely 5 minutes. Pockets full of money? How?

but in gambling you have a risk and reward, not in the Cooper case. The only reward I see is personal satisfaction.

Perhaps Georger is correct and GG meant "steaks are high".. they are delicious.

If you want $$$$ solve the Forrest Fenn hidden treasure.. now if Fenn was Cooper that'd be a story..
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on February 03, 2017, 11:21:22 AM
Solving decades old mysteries will make you famous, take Robert Ballard for one. I think the book would sell in this case, and then the movie deals...$$$$$$$$
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: FLYJACK on February 03, 2017, 11:40:24 AM
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Solving decades old mysteries will make you famous, take Robert Ballard for one. I think the book would sell in this case, and then the movie deals...$$$$$$$$

books, scripts, movie deals really pay peanuts, if a solve is public then exploiting it is wide open
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: EVickiW on February 03, 2017, 01:29:02 PM
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Solving decades old mysteries will make you famous, take Robert Ballard for one. I think the book would sell in this case, and then the movie deals...$$$$$$$$

books, scripts, movie deals really pay peanuts, if a solve is public then exploiting it is wide open

The person solving the case would be pulled in many directions. The Today Show, CNN, etc. I can see one of the news organizations paying for for a exclusive interview.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: FLYJACK on February 03, 2017, 01:41:27 PM
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Solving decades old mysteries will make you famous, take Robert Ballard for one. I think the book would sell in this case, and then the movie deals...$$$$$$$$

books, scripts, movie deals really pay peanuts, if a solve is public then exploiting it is wide open

The person solving the case would be pulled in many directions. The Today Show, CNN, etc. I can see one of the news organizations paying for for a exclusive interview.

A solve can be monetized but I don't see much for the person that solves it.. they would have nothing proprietary
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: EVickiW on February 03, 2017, 01:56:09 PM
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Solving decades old mysteries will make you famous, take Robert Ballard for one. I think the book would sell in this case, and then the movie deals...$$$$$$$$

books, scripts, movie deals really pay peanuts, if a solve is public then exploiting it is wide open

The person solving the case would be pulled in many directions. The Today Show, CNN, etc. I can see one of the news organizations paying for for a exclusive interview.

A solve can be monetized but I don't see much for the person that solves it.. they would have nothing proprietary

Exclusive interview for the person who solved it would be. Their individual story on solving the case would be proprietary.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: FLYJACK on February 03, 2017, 02:23:18 PM
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Solving decades old mysteries will make you famous, take Robert Ballard for one. I think the book would sell in this case, and then the movie deals...$$$$$$$$

books, scripts, movie deals really pay peanuts, if a solve is public then exploiting it is wide open

The person solving the case would be pulled in many directions. The Today Show, CNN, etc. I can see one of the news organizations paying for for a exclusive interview.

A solve can be monetized but I don't see much for the person that solves it.. they would have nothing proprietary

Exclusive interview for the person who solved it would be. Their individual story on solving the case would be proprietary.

true, but it wouldn't be much money,
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on February 03, 2017, 11:36:15 PM
The purchase price is usually 2–3 percent of the production’s budget, with a cap. So, at 2 percent, if a film is budgeted at $10 million, on the first day of principal photography you get a check for $200,000. If the cap is $225,000, that means even if the film is made for $50 million, your fee is still $225,000. For MOWs, a basic cable MOW is in the $25,000 range. Premium cable doubles that to $50,000. (If you luck into a series, you also get paid per episode.) Then again, like many writers, you could find yourself in development hell—the period when you’re waiting for the green light. But there are worse places you could be.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: FLYJACK on February 04, 2017, 11:12:34 AM
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The purchase price is usually 2–3 percent of the production’s budget, with a cap. So, at 2 percent, if a film is budgeted at $10 million, on the first day of principal photography you get a check for $200,000. If the cap is $225,000, that means even if the film is made for $50 million, your fee is still $225,000. For MOWs, a basic cable MOW is in the $25,000 range. Premium cable doubles that to $50,000. (If you luck into a series, you also get paid per episode.) Then again, like many writers, you could find yourself in development hell—the period when you’re waiting for the green light. But there are worse places you could be.

If you sell a script you are primarily selling your ability to write a good one, the solve is secondary and once it is public anyone can write a script.

Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on February 04, 2017, 12:09:02 PM
that's for a series....I'm not sure why the hair splitting, but movie rights have paid ridiculous amounts in the millions..it's not a script, it's a story....
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: FLYJACK on February 04, 2017, 12:32:50 PM
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that's for a series....I'm not sure why the hair splitting, but movie rights have paid ridiculous amounts in the millions..it's not a script, it's a story....

I see the monetization, just not for the person that solves, once public it is wide open for anyone..
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: FLYJACK on February 09, 2017, 12:35:10 AM
Found a great article on the 727 from 1963, highly detailed and many pages

https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1963/1963%20-%200703.html

There is a titanium water system for the galley and lavatory,, Cooper went into the lav.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Robert99 on February 09, 2017, 11:03:23 AM
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Found a great article on the 727 from 1963, highly detailed and many pages

https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1963/1963%20-%200703.html

There is a titanium water system for the galley and lavatory,, Cooper went into the lav.

The titanium tank that held the water supply was under the floor, so Cooper did not come into contact with it.  The titanium found on his tie had to get there at some earlier time.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: FLYJACK on February 09, 2017, 11:14:22 AM
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Found a great article on the 727 from 1963, highly detailed and many pages

https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1963/1963%20-%200703.html

There is a titanium water system for the galley and lavatory,, Cooper went into the lav.

The titanium tank that held the water supply was under the floor, so Cooper did not come into contact with it.  The titanium found on his tie had to get there at some earlier time.

Though the titanium tank was under the floor, the environment may have had particles.. same for the aluminum spirals.. Cooper did use the lav.

How many Titanium metal particles did Kaye find? if one or very few it may be picked up in the plane..  if many suggests otherwise..

The particles are so diverse that they may not be from one source.. some from work environment, some from plane.

.

Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Robert99 on February 09, 2017, 11:27:07 AM
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Found a great article on the 727 from 1963, highly detailed and many pages

https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1963/1963%20-%200703.html

There is a titanium water system for the galley and lavatory,, Cooper went into the lav.

The titanium tank that held the water supply was under the floor, so Cooper did not come into contact with it.  The titanium found on his tie had to get there at some earlier time.

Though the titanium tank was under the floor, the environment may have had particles.. same for the aluminum spirals.. Cooper did use the lav.

How many Titanium metal particles did Kaye find? if one or very few it may be picked up in the plane..  if many suggests otherwise..

The particles are so diverse that they may not be from one source.. some from work environment, some from plane.

.

Cooper apparently spent most, if not all, the time in the lavatory to partially conceal himself so that no one could sneak up on him and surprise him.  If he had closed the door and locked it, he probably would have been the only person on the airplane when he came out.  The titanium must have come from some other place.   
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: FLYJACK on February 09, 2017, 12:08:04 PM
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Found a great article on the 727 from 1963, highly detailed and many pages

https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1963/1963%20-%200703.html

There is a titanium water system for the galley and lavatory,, Cooper went into the lav.

The titanium tank that held the water supply was under the floor, so Cooper did not come into contact with it.  The titanium found on his tie had to get there at some earlier time.

Though the titanium tank was under the floor, the environment may have had particles.. same for the aluminum spirals.. Cooper did use the lav.

How many Titanium metal particles did Kaye find? if one or very few it may be picked up in the plane..  if many suggests otherwise..

The particles are so diverse that they may not be from one source.. some from work environment, some from plane.

.

Cooper apparently spent most, if not all, the time in the lavatory to partially conceal himself so that no one could sneak up on him and surprise him.  If he had closed the door and locked it, he probably would have been the only person on the airplane when he came out.  The titanium must have come from some other place.

no need to get snarky,

Cooper was in the lav very briefly and he did remove his tie at some point, he was unseen for a period of time as well before the jump, it isn't a stretch that the tie could have picked up particles in the plane, a 727 is a particle rich environment. It can't be discounted.

..
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Robert99 on February 09, 2017, 12:20:25 PM
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Found a great article on the 727 from 1963, highly detailed and many pages

https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1963/1963%20-%200703.html

There is a titanium water system for the galley and lavatory,, Cooper went into the lav.

The titanium tank that held the water supply was under the floor, so Cooper did not come into contact with it.  The titanium found on his tie had to get there at some earlier time.

Though the titanium tank was under the floor, the environment may have had particles.. same for the aluminum spirals.. Cooper did use the lav.

How many Titanium metal particles did Kaye find? if one or very few it may be picked up in the plane..  if many suggests otherwise..

The particles are so diverse that they may not be from one source.. some from work environment, some from plane.

.

Cooper apparently spent most, if not all, the time in the lavatory to partially conceal himself so that no one could sneak up on him and surprise him.  If he had closed the door and locked it, he probably would have been the only person on the airplane when he came out.  The titanium must have come from some other place.

no need to get snarky,

Cooper was in the lav very briefly and he did remove his tie at some point, he was unseen for a period of time as well before the jump, it isn't a stretch that the tie could have picked up particles in the plane, a 727 is a particle rich environment. It can't be discounted.

..

There is nothing snarky about my comments.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on February 09, 2017, 01:32:52 PM
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Found a great article on the 727 from 1963, highly detailed and many pages

https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1963/1963%20-%200703.html

There is a titanium water system for the galley and lavatory,, Cooper went into the lav.

The titanium tank that held the water supply was under the floor, so Cooper did not come into contact with it.  The titanium found on his tie had to get there at some earlier time.

Though the titanium tank was under the floor, the environment may have had particles.. same for the aluminum spirals.. Cooper did use the lav.

How many Titanium metal particles did Kaye find? if one or very few it may be picked up in the plane..  if many suggests otherwise..

The particles are so diverse that they may not be from one source.. some from work environment, some from plane.

.

Cooper apparently spent most, if not all, the time in the lavatory to partially conceal himself so that no one could sneak up on him and surprise him.  If he had closed the door and locked it, he probably would have been the only person on the airplane when he came out.  The titanium must have come from some other place.

That plane would be a particle-rich repository with contributions from people from all walks and stations of life, over the wide swath of the plane's route, including maintenance and other people working on the plane, etc. It's an invitation to endless rabbit holes trying to group, sort, and trace evidence to single sources.

The maintenance records for that plane and photos of the people working on it would be helpful to have. 

Good luck!  :)     
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on February 09, 2017, 01:53:37 PM
Is the tank pure titanium?  $$$$$
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: FLYJACK on February 09, 2017, 01:58:08 PM
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Found a great article on the 727 from 1963, highly detailed and many pages

https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1963/1963%20-%200703.html

There is a titanium water system for the galley and lavatory,, Cooper went into the lav.

The titanium tank that held the water supply was under the floor, so Cooper did not come into contact with it.  The titanium found on his tie had to get there at some earlier time.

Though the titanium tank was under the floor, the environment may have had particles.. same for the aluminum spirals.. Cooper did use the lav.

How many Titanium metal particles did Kaye find? if one or very few it may be picked up in the plane..  if many suggests otherwise..

The particles are so diverse that they may not be from one source.. some from work environment, some from plane.

.

Cooper apparently spent most, if not all, the time in the lavatory to partially conceal himself so that no one could sneak up on him and surprise him.  If he had closed the door and locked it, he probably would have been the only person on the airplane when he came out.  The titanium must have come from some other place.

That plane would be a particle-rich repository with contributions from people from all walks and stations of life, over the wide swath of the plane's route, including maintenance and other people working on the plane, etc. It's an invitation to endless rabbit holes trying to group, sort, and trace evidence to single sources.

The maintenance records for that plane and photos of the people working on it would be helpful to have. 

Good luck!  :)     

The Cooper case is nothing but rabbit holes,

Airplane lav water tanks were made from pure titanium, I still can't confirm 100% the 727 ones are "pure". They also used aluminum and stainless steel parts in the water system.. I am looking at the joining and welding process of titanium to stainless steel..

There is just no way to prove the pure Titanium found on the tie came from the plane, but it was assumed that all titanium in commercial planes was alloyed, now that may not be the case. If the "pure titanium" could have been picked up on the plane it does change the strict focus on an industrial environment that uses it.

Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on February 09, 2017, 02:16:16 PM
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Found a great article on the 727 from 1963, highly detailed and many pages

https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1963/1963%20-%200703.html

There is a titanium water system for the galley and lavatory,, Cooper went into the lav.

The titanium tank that held the water supply was under the floor, so Cooper did not come into contact with it.  The titanium found on his tie had to get there at some earlier time.

Though the titanium tank was under the floor, the environment may have had particles.. same for the aluminum spirals.. Cooper did use the lav.

How many Titanium metal particles did Kaye find? if one or very few it may be picked up in the plane..  if many suggests otherwise..

The particles are so diverse that they may not be from one source.. some from work environment, some from plane.

.

Cooper apparently spent most, if not all, the time in the lavatory to partially conceal himself so that no one could sneak up on him and surprise him.  If he had closed the door and locked it, he probably would have been the only person on the airplane when he came out.  The titanium must have come from some other place.

That plane would be a particle-rich repository with contributions from people from all walks and stations of life, over the wide swath of the plane's route, including maintenance and other people working on the plane, etc. It's an invitation to endless rabbit holes trying to group, sort, and trace evidence to single sources.

The maintenance records for that plane and photos of the people working on it would be helpful to have. 

Good luck!  :)     

The Cooper case is nothing but rabbit holes,

Airplane lav water tanks were made from pure titanium, I still can't confirm 100% the 727 ones are "pure". They also used aluminum and stainless steel parts in the water system.. I am looking at the joining and welding process of titanium to stainless steel..

There is just no way to prove the pure Titanium found on the tie came from the plane, but it was assumed that all titanium in commercial planes was alloyed, now that may not be the case. If the "pure titanium" could have been picked up on the plane it does change the strict focus on an industrial environment that uses it.

The socalled pure Ti piece looks machined to me. Or worn (down the length of the piece). With fractures. (Thats old old news!)  ;)

Moreover note the rest of the graph.   ***"Ore deposits of palladium and other PGMs are rare. The most extensive deposits have been found in the norite belt of the Bushveld Igneous Complex covering the Transvaal Basin in South Africa, the Stillwater Complex in Montana, United States, the Sudbury Basin and Thunder Bay District of Ontario, Canada, and the Norilsk Complex in Russia. Recycling is also a source, mostly from scrapped catalytic converters. The numerous applications and limited supply sources result in considerable investment interest."   >:D
 
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on February 09, 2017, 02:19:13 PM
The Kaye Sleths site has been changed. Edited? Simplified? Bigger optics? Made older reader/moron friendly? :-*  :))
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: FLYJACK on March 01, 2017, 11:35:44 AM
There was titanium on a 727 around the lavatory, titanium parts were joined to SS...

727 converted to a home, titanium water tank, sewage and air ducts..

http://www.airplanehome.com/FAQs.html

"Cool interior lights, awesome exterior lights, sleek gleaming appearance, titanium ducts, Star Trek movies a Star Trek like setting."

"And that makes sense - why tear out superior round titanium air ducts with profoundly high quality welded seams and aerospace quality clamps"

"But another possibility is to modify the internal sewer lines to incorporate gas traps, and internally connect existing titanium conduits which ultimately route up through the tail to the sewer lines to provide gas venting"

http://www.airplanehome.com/Images/14Mar2003ImagesCatalog.html

"I installed a polyethylene cold water line from the aircraft's titanium water tank to a newer washer"

http://airplanehome.com/Images/16Aug2004ImagesCatalog.htm

"sealing the primary titanium tank where portions of the plumbing were"


https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1963/1963%20-%200714.html?search=%22titanium%20storage%22
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: FLYJACK on March 01, 2017, 12:06:16 PM
SS was mechanically smashed into the Ti,,

many parts attached to Ti water tank..
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on March 01, 2017, 01:08:52 PM
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There was titanium on a 727 around the lavatory, titanium parts were joined to SS...

727 converted to a home, titanium water tank, sewage and air ducts..

http://www.airplanehome.com/FAQs.html

"Cool interior lights, awesome exterior lights, sleek gleaming appearance, titanium ducts, Star Trek movies a Star Trek like setting."

"And that makes sense - why tear out superior round titanium air ducts with profoundly high quality welded seams and aerospace quality clamps"

"But another possibility is to modify the internal sewer lines to incorporate gas traps, and internally connect existing titanium conduits which ultimately route up through the tail to the sewer lines to provide gas venting"

http://www.airplanehome.com/Images/14Mar2003ImagesCatalog.html

"I installed a polyethylene cold water line from the aircraft's titanium water tank to a newer washer"

http://airplanehome.com/Images/16Aug2004ImagesCatalog.htm

"sealing the primary titanium tank where portions of the plumbing were"


https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1963/1963%20-%200714.html?search=%22titanium%20storage%22

so Cooper was a plumber?     O0
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on March 01, 2017, 01:09:44 PM
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SS was mechanically smashed into the Ti,,

many parts attached to Ti water tank..

But what of PP, NN, OO, and TT ?   ..... in the Prove, that is.  ;)
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: FLYJACK on March 01, 2017, 01:14:03 PM
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There was titanium on a 727 around the lavatory, titanium parts were joined to SS...

727 converted to a home, titanium water tank, sewage and air ducts..

http://www.airplanehome.com/FAQs.html

"Cool interior lights, awesome exterior lights, sleek gleaming appearance, titanium ducts, Star Trek movies a Star Trek like setting."

"And that makes sense - why tear out superior round titanium air ducts with profoundly high quality welded seams and aerospace quality clamps"

"But another possibility is to modify the internal sewer lines to incorporate gas traps, and internally connect existing titanium conduits which ultimately route up through the tail to the sewer lines to provide gas venting"

http://www.airplanehome.com/Images/14Mar2003ImagesCatalog.html

"I installed a polyethylene cold water line from the aircraft's titanium water tank to a newer washer"

http://airplanehome.com/Images/16Aug2004ImagesCatalog.htm

"sealing the primary titanium tank where portions of the plumbing were"


https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1963/1963%20-%200714.html?search=%22titanium%20storage%22

so Cooper was a plumber?     O0

SOME particles found on the tie MAY have been picked up on the plane..
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on March 01, 2017, 01:20:04 PM
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There was titanium on a 727 around the lavatory, titanium parts were joined to SS...

727 converted to a home, titanium water tank, sewage and air ducts..

http://www.airplanehome.com/FAQs.html

"Cool interior lights, awesome exterior lights, sleek gleaming appearance, titanium ducts, Star Trek movies a Star Trek like setting."

"And that makes sense - why tear out superior round titanium air ducts with profoundly high quality welded seams and aerospace quality clamps"

"But another possibility is to modify the internal sewer lines to incorporate gas traps, and internally connect existing titanium conduits which ultimately route up through the tail to the sewer lines to provide gas venting"

http://www.airplanehome.com/Images/14Mar2003ImagesCatalog.html

"I installed a polyethylene cold water line from the aircraft's titanium water tank to a newer washer"

http://airplanehome.com/Images/16Aug2004ImagesCatalog.htm

"sealing the primary titanium tank where portions of the plumbing were"


https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1963/1963%20-%200714.html?search=%22titanium%20storage%22

so Cooper was a plumber?     O0

SOME particles found on the tie MAY have been picked up on the plane..

I thought that was your aim.

Finally a solve put in English!
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: dice on March 01, 2017, 01:52:14 PM
I thought titanium was relatively expensive compared to other materials. And flammable above 600deg.  But likely it must have desirable characteristics for its application at that time.
Can someone explain why they'd use them in non essential parts like the lavoratory?
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: FLYJACK on March 01, 2017, 02:10:22 PM
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I thought titanium was relatively expensive compared to other materials. And flammable above 600deg.  But likely it must have desirable characteristics for its application at that time.
Can someone explain why they'd use them in non essential parts like the lavoratory?

(Commercially Pure) CP Titanium doesn't corrode, an alloyed potable water tank would become contaminated over time.. 
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Robert99 on March 01, 2017, 04:52:46 PM
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I thought titanium was relatively expensive compared to other materials. And flammable above 600deg.  But likely it must have desirable characteristics for its application at that time.
Can someone explain why they'd use them in non essential parts like the lavoratory?

Are you thinking of magnesium rather than titanium?
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: dice on March 01, 2017, 05:25:33 PM
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I thought titanium was relatively expensive compared to other materials. And flammable above 600deg.  But likely it must have desirable characteristics for its application at that time.
Can someone explain why they'd use them in non essential parts like the lavoratory?

Are you thinking of magnesium rather than titanium?

I dont think so...   I always thought titanium had a high cost relative to alloys or other metals.   And magnesium is flammable at lower temperatures.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Robert99 on March 01, 2017, 08:21:43 PM
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I thought titanium was relatively expensive compared to other materials. And flammable above 600deg.  But likely it must have desirable characteristics for its application at that time.
Can someone explain why they'd use them in non essential parts like the lavoratory?

Are you thinking of magnesium rather than titanium?

I dont think so...   I always thought titanium had a high cost relative to alloys or other metals.   And magnesium is flammable at lower temperatures.

Actually, I was trying to make a point that magnesium burns at relatively low temperatures while titanium, such as on the SR-71, routinely reaches about 500 degrees during flight operations.  So there would only be about a 100 degree buffer before reaching the 600 degrees you mentioned.  With that low buffer margin, I would consider it a distinct possibility that over the decades that the SR-71 has been flying that one of the airframes would have caught fire from the aerodynamic heating.  But I have never heard of such a case.  Instead, the structure reportedly comes back heat-treated and stronger than when the aircraft took off. 
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on March 01, 2017, 11:52:55 PM
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I thought titanium was relatively expensive compared to other materials. And flammable above 600deg.  But likely it must have desirable characteristics for its application at that time.
Can someone explain why they'd use them in non essential parts like the lavoratory?

Are you thinking of magnesium rather than titanium?

I dont think so...   I always thought titanium had a high cost relative to alloys or other metals.   And magnesium is flammable at lower temperatures.

George Washington had wooden dentures (untrue). Maybe our hero DB Cooper had titanium dentures, or implants, or uh err - something like that. Really. Very True! Really true! Oh my gosh I just that of that really great thought! Its so true it cant be a lie!

I think I will discuss it with that guy who runs Russia. ? Who knows everything!  O0 :))

The very great titanium implants that Cooper wore. In his mouth. Not his hands.

He could have afforded the implants other people couldn't afford. Who knows - maybe that's why he was hijacking an airplane, to pay for his titanium implants. 

 

 
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: dice on March 02, 2017, 08:38:15 AM
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I thought titanium was relatively expensive compared to other materials. And flammable above 600deg.  But likely it must have desirable characteristics for its application at that time.
Can someone explain why they'd use them in non essential parts like the lavoratory?

As an engineer, I digressively mentioned the flammability of titanium, thinking that their engineers would likely want materials with a very high flammability number, and it probably threw the thread off on a tangent.    Right or wrong, I always had the perception that titanium was quite expensive, in the precious metals category like palladium and gold, and was surprised to read that they used it for the lav sink bowls.  The dissonance of the image of the most awful type of bathroom, with a valuable sink.... and thus, my post.   I guess that in the late 60s, early 70s, plastics didn't come far enough yet, for I figure that would be the material of choice.  I digress, makes me think of Dustin Hoffman's character in the Graduate, that 'plastics are the future'.

Are you thinking of magnesium rather than titanium?

I dont think so...   I always thought titanium had a high cost relative to alloys or other metals.   And magnesium is flammable at lower temperatures.

Actually, I was trying to make a point that magnesium burns at relatively low temperatures while titanium, such as on the SR-71, routinely reaches about 500 degrees during flight operations.  So there would only be about a 100 degree buffer before reaching the 600 degrees you mentioned.  With that low buffer margin, I would consider it a distinct possibility that over the decades that the SR-71 has been flying that one of the airframes would have caught fire from the aerodynamic heating.  But I have never heard of such a case.  Instead, the structure reportedly comes back heat-treated and stronger than when the aircraft took off.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: FLYJACK on March 02, 2017, 12:37:29 PM
Titanium use in aircraft, CP Titanium (Unalloyed Commercially Pure) is softer and used for tubing, ducting and water tanks for its anti-corrosion properties rather than structural where alloyed Titanium is used.

The Titanium particles found on the tie were "commercially pure" mechanically smashed with SS. CP titanium parts were near the rear lav on the 727. Those parts were mechanically joined to many SS parts and particles could have been dispersed by maintenance activities in the area that the hijacker sat and moved or left the tie.

It is possible that the CP Ti particles came from the plane's environment.

Takeaway,

Finding a previous environment that exposed the tie to ALL those particles in it's prior 6 years is extremely limited if not impossible and potentially misleading. However, if some of the tie particles were picked up on the plane then the universe of environments that the tie could have existed in for the 6 years prior to the hijack would be wider.

The CP Titanium particles found on the tie might have been picked up on the plane. NOT MUST HAVE.



https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aircraft/amt_handbook/media/FAA-8083-30_Ch05.pdf

Titanium and Titanium Alloys

Titanium was discovered by an English priest named Gregot. A crude separation of titanium ore was accom- plished in 1825. In 1906 a suf cient amount of pure titanium was isolated in metallic form to permit a study. Following this study, in 1932, an extraction process was developed which became the rst commercial method for producing titanium. The United States Bureau of Mines began making titanium sponge in 1946, and 4 years later the melting process began.

The use of titanium is widespread. It is used in many commercial enterprises and is in constant demand for such items as pumps, screens, and other tools and xtures where corrosion attack is prevalent. In aircraft construction and repair, titanium is used for fuselage skins, engine shrouds, rewalls, longerons, frames, fittings, air ducts, and fasteners.

Titanium is used for making compressor disks, spacer rings, compressor blades and vanes, through bolts, tur-bine housings and liners, and miscellaneous hardware for turbine engines.

Titanium, in appearance, is similar to stainless steel. One quick method used to identify titanium is the spark test. Titanium gives off a brilliant white trace ending in a brilliant white burst. Also, identification can be accomplished by moistening the titanium and using it to draw a line on a piece of glass. This will leave a dark line similar in appearance to a pencil mark.

Titanium falls between aluminum and stainless steel in terms of elasticity, density, and elevated temperature strength. It has a melting point of from 2,730°F to 3,155°F, low thermal conductivity, and a low coef-cient of expansion. It is light, strong, and resistant to stress corrosion cracking. Titanium is approximately 60 percent heavier than aluminum and about 50 percent lighter than stainless steel.

Because of the high melting point of titanium, high temperature properties are disappointing. The ultimate yield strength of titanium drops rapidly above 800 °F. The absorption of oxygen and nitrogen from the air at temperatures above 1,000°F makes the metal so brittle on long exposure that it soon becomes worthless. However, titanium does have some merit for short time exposure up to 3,000 °F where strength is not important. Aircraft rewalls demand this requirement.

Titanium is nonmagnetic and has an electrical resistance comparable to that of stainless steel. Some of the base alloys of titanium are quite hard. Heat treating and alloying do not develop the hardness of titanium to the high levels of some of the heat-treated alloys of steel. It was only recently that a heat-treatable titanium alloy was developed. Prior to the development of this alloy, heating and rolling was the only method of forming that could be accomplished. However, it is possible to form the new alloy in the soft condition and heat treat it for hardness.

Iron, molybdenum, and chromium are used to stabilize titanium and produce alloys that will quench harden and age harden. The addition of these metals also adds ductility. The fatigue resistance of titanium is greater than that of aluminum or steel.

Titanium becomes softer as the degree of purity is increased. It is not practical to distinguish between the various grades of commercially pure or unalloyed titanium by chemical analysis; therefore, the grades are determined by mechanical properties.

Titanium Designations

The A-B-C classi cation of titanium alloys was estab-lished to provide a convenient and simple means of describing all titanium alloys. Titanium and titanium alloys possess three basic types of crystals: A (alpha), B (beta), and C (combined alpha and beta). Their characteristics are:

• A (alpha)—all around performance; good weldability; tough and strong both cold and hot, and resistant to oxidation.

• B (beta)—bendability; excellent bend ductility; strong both cold and hot, but vulnerable to contamination.

• C (combined alpha and beta for compromise performances) — strong when cold and warm, but weak when hot; good bendability; moderate contamination resistance; excellent forgeability.

Titanium is manufactured for commercial use in two basic compositions: commercially pure titanium and alloyed titanium. A-55 is an example of a commercially pure titanium. It has a yield strength of 55,000 to 80,000 psi and is a general purpose grade for moderate to severe forming. It is sometimes used for nonstructural aircraft parts and for all types of corrosion resistant applications, such as tubing. Type A-70 titanium is closely related to type A-55 but has a yield strength of 70,000 to 95,000 psi. It is used where higher strength is required, and it is specified for many moderately stressed aircraft parts. For many corrosion applications, it is used interchangeably with type A-55. Both type A-55 and type A-70 are weldable.

One of the widely used titanium base alloys is des- ignated as C-110M. It is used for primary structural members and aircraft skin, has 110,000 psi minimum yield strength, and contains 8 percent manganese.

Type A-110AT is a titanium alloy which contains 5 percent aluminum and 2.5 percent tin. It also has a high minimum yield strength at elevated temperatures with the excellent welding characteristics inherent in alpha-type titanium alloys.

Corrosion Characteristics

The corrosion resistance of titanium deserves special mention. The resistance of the metal to corrosion is caused by the formation of a protective surface lm of stable oxide or chemi-absorbed oxygen. Film is often produced by the presence of oxygen and oxidizing agents.

Corrosion of titanium is uniform. There is little evi-dence of pitting or other serious forms of localized attack. Normally, it is not subject to stress corrosion, corrosion fatigue, intergranular corrosion, or galvanic corrosion. Its corrosion resistance is equal or superior to 18-8 stainless steel.

Laboratory tests with acid and saline solutions show titanium polarizes readily. The net effect, in general, is to decrease current ow in galvanic and corrosion cells. Corrosion currents on the surface of titanium and metallic couples are naturally restricted. This partly accounts for good resistance to many chemicals; also, the material may be used with some dissimilar metals with no harmful galvanic effect on either.

 
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on March 02, 2017, 03:17:48 PM
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Titanium use in aircraft, CP Titanium (Unalloyed Commercially Pure) is softer and used for tubing, ducting and water tanks for its anti-corrosion properties rather than structural where alloyed Titanium is used.

The Titanium particles found on the tie were "commercially pure" mechanically smashed with SS. CP titanium parts were near the rear lav on the 727. Those parts were mechanically joined to many SS parts and particles could have been dispersed by maintenance activities in the area that the hijacker sat and moved or left the tie.

It is possible that the CP Ti particles came from the plane's environment.

Takeaway,

Finding a previous environment that exposed the tie to ALL those particles in it's prior 6 years is extremely limited if not impossible and potentially misleading. However, if some of the tie particles were picked up on the plane then the universe of environments that the tie could have existed in for the 6 years prior to the hijack would be wider.

The CP Titanium particles found on the tie might have been picked up on the plane. NOT MUST HAVE.



https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aircraft/amt_handbook/media/FAA-8083-30_Ch05.pdf

Titanium and Titanium Alloys

Titanium was discovered by an English priest named Gregot. A crude separation of titanium ore was accom- plished in 1825. In 1906 a suf cient amount of pure titanium was isolated in metallic form to permit a study. Following this study, in 1932, an extraction process was developed which became the rst commercial method for producing titanium. The United States Bureau of Mines began making titanium sponge in 1946, and 4 years later the melting process began.

The use of titanium is widespread. It is used in many commercial enterprises and is in constant demand for such items as pumps, screens, and other tools and xtures where corrosion attack is prevalent. In aircraft construction and repair, titanium is used for fuselage skins, engine shrouds, rewalls, longerons, frames, fittings, air ducts, and fasteners.

Titanium is used for making compressor disks, spacer rings, compressor blades and vanes, through bolts, tur-bine housings and liners, and miscellaneous hardware for turbine engines.

Titanium, in appearance, is similar to stainless steel. One quick method used to identify titanium is the spark test. Titanium gives off a brilliant white trace ending in a brilliant white burst. Also, identification can be accomplished by moistening the titanium and using it to draw a line on a piece of glass. This will leave a dark line similar in appearance to a pencil mark.

Titanium falls between aluminum and stainless steel in terms of elasticity, density, and elevated temperature strength. It has a melting point of from 2,730°F to 3,155°F, low thermal conductivity, and a low coef-cient of expansion. It is light, strong, and resistant to stress corrosion cracking. Titanium is approximately 60 percent heavier than aluminum and about 50 percent lighter than stainless steel.

Because of the high melting point of titanium, high temperature properties are disappointing. The ultimate yield strength of titanium drops rapidly above 800 °F. The absorption of oxygen and nitrogen from the air at temperatures above 1,000°F makes the metal so brittle on long exposure that it soon becomes worthless. However, titanium does have some merit for short time exposure up to 3,000 °F where strength is not important. Aircraft rewalls demand this requirement.

Titanium is nonmagnetic and has an electrical resistance comparable to that of stainless steel. Some of the base alloys of titanium are quite hard. Heat treating and alloying do not develop the hardness of titanium to the high levels of some of the heat-treated alloys of steel. It was only recently that a heat-treatable titanium alloy was developed. Prior to the development of this alloy, heating and rolling was the only method of forming that could be accomplished. However, it is possible to form the new alloy in the soft condition and heat treat it for hardness.

Iron, molybdenum, and chromium are used to stabilize titanium and produce alloys that will quench harden and age harden. The addition of these metals also adds ductility. The fatigue resistance of titanium is greater than that of aluminum or steel.

Titanium becomes softer as the degree of purity is increased. It is not practical to distinguish between the various grades of commercially pure or unalloyed titanium by chemical analysis; therefore, the grades are determined by mechanical properties.

Titanium Designations

The A-B-C classi cation of titanium alloys was estab-lished to provide a convenient and simple means of describing all titanium alloys. Titanium and titanium alloys possess three basic types of crystals: A (alpha), B (beta), and C (combined alpha and beta). Their characteristics are:

• A (alpha)—all around performance; good weldability; tough and strong both cold and hot, and resistant to oxidation.

• B (beta)—bendability; excellent bend ductility; strong both cold and hot, but vulnerable to contamination.

• C (combined alpha and beta for compromise performances) — strong when cold and warm, but weak when hot; good bendability; moderate contamination resistance; excellent forgeability.

Titanium is manufactured for commercial use in two basic compositions: commercially pure titanium and alloyed titanium. A-55 is an example of a commercially pure titanium. It has a yield strength of 55,000 to 80,000 psi and is a general purpose grade for moderate to severe forming. It is sometimes used for nonstructural aircraft parts and for all types of corrosion resistant applications, such as tubing. Type A-70 titanium is closely related to type A-55 but has a yield strength of 70,000 to 95,000 psi. It is used where higher strength is required, and it is specified for many moderately stressed aircraft parts. For many corrosion applications, it is used interchangeably with type A-55. Both type A-55 and type A-70 are weldable.

One of the widely used titanium base alloys is des- ignated as C-110M. It is used for primary structural members and aircraft skin, has 110,000 psi minimum yield strength, and contains 8 percent manganese.

Type A-110AT is a titanium alloy which contains 5 percent aluminum and 2.5 percent tin. It also has a high minimum yield strength at elevated temperatures with the excellent welding characteristics inherent in alpha-type titanium alloys.

Corrosion Characteristics

The corrosion resistance of titanium deserves special mention. The resistance of the metal to corrosion is caused by the formation of a protective surface lm of stable oxide or chemi-absorbed oxygen. Film is often produced by the presence of oxygen and oxidizing agents.

Corrosion of titanium is uniform. There is little evi-dence of pitting or other serious forms of localized attack. Normally, it is not subject to stress corrosion, corrosion fatigue, intergranular corrosion, or galvanic corrosion. Its corrosion resistance is equal or superior to 18-8 stainless steel.

Laboratory tests with acid and saline solutions show titanium polarizes readily. The net effect, in general, is to decrease current ow in galvanic and corrosion cells. Corrosion currents on the surface of titanium and metallic couples are naturally restricted. This partly accounts for good resistance to many chemicals; also, the material may be used with some dissimilar metals with no harmful galvanic effect on either.

 


The participles Tom has need to e matched to specific sources for a prove and a solve. I should have thought of this before!  >:D
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on March 02, 2017, 11:43:00 PM
Finally available! - A cure for DB Cooper color blindness. See: http://www.enchroma.com/

Synapse recovery and De-programming apps coming soon. Stay tuned.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: 377 on March 03, 2017, 01:41:21 PM
Even better than colored contacts  ;)

When I was a kid I made money repairing TVs and radios. In the poorer neighborhoods I saw a lot of faux "Color TVs". The viewers bought a cheap plastic screen overlay that had horizontal bands of transparent colors, top was blue sky color, middle flesh color and bottom earth color. Every once in a while things would line up to give a reasonable facsimile of a color scene. Most of the time it looked awful.

Real color TVs in my early days of repairs were heavy beasts with round CRTs and really complex electron deflection coils and color dot masks. A little bit of stray magnetism could ruin a picture. I carried a degaussing coil to demagnetize the screens. I haven't seen a TV repair shop in years. I guess  most are tossed if they fail.

On brown contact lenses:
https://books.google.com/books?id=d12rPr834SEC&pg=PA266&lpg=PA266&dq=brown+contact+lenses+FBI+AIM&source=bl&ots=UXOneo7cEP&sig=0T-N3DwjewZEGMMBl8aZ0u2nFL8&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi8rb6A_rrSAhUrqFQKHQBBDksQ6AEIITAA#v=onepage&q=brown%20contact%20lenses%20FBI%20AIM&f=false

377



Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: FLYJACK on March 11, 2017, 01:08:04 PM
Found out that (Commercially Pure) CP-Ti and of course Stainless Steel was used in dental implants from the 1960's..

The pure titanium particles with mechanically smashed SS may have come from dental work while wearing the tie in the six years prior to the hijack. With such a wide array of particles found on the tie it is likely that the particles came from distinct sources and not a single environment.


https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0ahUKEwiz14O9gs_SAhWpqFQKHdVLBFwQFgggMAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mdpi.com%2F1996-1944%2F5%2F9%2F1528%2Fpdf&usg=AFQjCNG9CZ6e8F2uFY6MO6mfixSVY6SZOg&bvm=bv.149397726,d.cGw
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on March 11, 2017, 02:44:25 PM
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Found out that (Commercially Pure) CP-Ti and of course Stainless Steel was used in dental implants from the 1960's..

The pure titanium particles with mechanically smashed SS may have come from dental work while wearing the tie in the six years prior to the hijack. With such a wide array of particles found on the tie it is likely that the particles came from distinct sources and not a single environment.


https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0ahUKEwiz14O9gs_SAhWpqFQKHdVLBFwQFgggMAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mdpi.com%2F1996-1944%2F5%2F9%2F1528%2Fpdf&usg=AFQjCNG9CZ6e8F2uFY6MO6mfixSVY6SZOg&bvm=bv.149397726,d.cGw

In a similar vein, "no accent" has now been replaced by "no particular accent" in the official FBI files. Carr spoke it wrongly (er).  I guess that comes out as "wronglier" ? O0
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: FLYJACK on March 11, 2017, 06:52:56 PM
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Found out that (Commercially Pure) CP-Ti and of course Stainless Steel was used in dental implants from the 1960's..

The pure titanium particles with mechanically smashed SS may have come from dental work while wearing the tie in the six years prior to the hijack. With such a wide array of particles found on the tie it is likely that the particles came from distinct sources and not a single environment.


https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0ahUKEwiz14O9gs_SAhWpqFQKHdVLBFwQFgggMAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mdpi.com%2F1996-1944%2F5%2F9%2F1528%2Fpdf&usg=AFQjCNG9CZ6e8F2uFY6MO6mfixSVY6SZOg&bvm=bv.149397726,d.cGw

In a similar vein, "no accent" has now been replaced by "no particular accent" in the official FBI files. Carr spoke it wrongly (er).  I guess that comes out as "wronglier" ? O0

white male,

olive, latin appearance, medium smooth complexion,

eyes, possibly brown

voice. low, spoke intelligently, no particular accent, possibly from the mid west

black dress suit, black rain-type overcoat or dark top coat



Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: FLYJACK on March 12, 2017, 09:16:10 PM
Olive skin is one step "darker" than fair,

Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on March 12, 2017, 11:11:31 PM
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Olive skin is one step "darker" than fair,

all with appropriate genetic markers. Haplotypes.

Latin in appearance.

Had "no particular" accent. 
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: andrade1812 on March 26, 2017, 01:27:43 AM
The DB Cooper heist was featured on the fifth episode of the White Rabbit Project on Netflix... Nothing really informative but I thought some of you might be interested.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on March 26, 2017, 10:03:27 PM
Hunh? I went to Netflix and looked for the White Rabbit Project and couldn't find it. What gives?
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on March 26, 2017, 11:01:24 PM
OOPSIE. Misspelled Rabbit. Only one "t." I liked the show, even if the Norjak stuff was off on a lot of details. Really fascinating were the exploits of the cyber gang, the Carabanax, or whatever their name was. $1 billion stolen and, like Cooper, not only have never been caught but their identity is still unknown.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: barefootboy3001 on September 29, 2017, 04:14:19 AM
I know this is probably not in the White Rabbit project but like has anyone ever put forward the theory that the pilots, William Scott and Robert Rataczak may have been in on it? Maybe they gave some "false info about Cooper" in reward for some cut of the pay?
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on September 29, 2017, 01:56:23 PM
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I know this is probably not in the White Rabbit project but like has anyone ever put forward the theory that the pilots, William Scott and Robert Rataczak may have been in on it? Maybe they gave some "false info about Cooper" in reward for some cut of the pay?

What was Hugh Hefner doing at the time?  ;)
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on September 29, 2017, 05:46:30 PM
I have heard, and have been asked numerous times if Bill Rataczak was in on the caper, along with Tina Mucklow. I have never heard that Scotty has been implicated by anyone - no matter how strong the winds of the Cooper Vortex blow.

I see no evidence that any of the crew were accomplices in the skyjacking. Further, the behavior of the crew during and after the hijacking is compelling evidence to me that they were not involved in any manner. I recommend that you watch some of the YouTube videos of CBS TV interviews with Tina afterwards to see her compassion and concern for the passengers, and her acknowledgement of the dangers DBC presented.

Along those lines, I truly commiserate with Tina on how many scenarios have been put forward by pundits on how she assisted DBC, fell in love with him, had sex with him, got a pay-off later, was visited by him in Gresham, etc. That stuff really turns my stomach, and when I think of what she has had to endure from those folks I have a degree of sympathy for how she treats me and other investigators. One of the biggest Norjak mysteries I have stumbled upon is how Jo Weber has been embraced by the Dormuths despite some of the things she claims about Duane and Tina.

The bigger question, and ultimately a more interesting one, is why some people persist in perceiving the crew as co-conspirators. It speaks to a deep cynicism and mistrust, imho.

Can you speak to any of this, Barefootin'?
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: 377 on September 29, 2017, 06:01:24 PM
When you can't solve a crime with credible evidence, the conspiracy theorists will come to your rescue. Every time.

Speaking of conspiracy theories, some long suppressed/withheld/classified JFK murder evidence is scheduled for imminent release. I doubt if it will prove a multi-person or Cuban govt. assassination conspiracy. Some scholars have speculated that it will reveal more about Oswald's activities in Mexico City.

I give zero credibility to a crew conspiracy in Norjack. I don't share Ckret's view of airline personnel as saints however.

http://www.nytimes.com/1990/08/21/us/northwest-pilots-are-found-guilty-of-drunken-flying.html?mcubz=0

http://www.thedailybeast.com/busted-for-heroin-when-pilots-fly-high

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Helle_Crafts

The crew conspiracy theory doesn't pass a basic logic test. $200K split 5 ways for a super risky felony? Nahhh.

377
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on September 29, 2017, 11:20:52 PM
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When you can't solve a crime with credible evidence, the conspiracy theorists will come to your rescue. Every time.

Speaking of conspiracy theories, some long suppressed/withheld/classified JFK murder evidence is scheduled for imminent release. I doubt if it will prove a multi-person or Cuban govt. assassination conspiracy. Some scholars have speculated that it will reveal more about Oswald's activities in Mexico City.

I give zero credibility to a crew conspiracy in Norjack. I don't share Ckret's view of airline personnel as saints however.

http://www.nytimes.com/1990/08/21/us/northwest-pilots-are-found-guilty-of-drunken-flying.html?mcubz=0

http://www.thedailybeast.com/busted-for-heroin-when-pilots-fly-high

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Helle_Crafts

The crew conspiracy theory doesn't pass a basic logic test. $200K split 5 ways for a super risky felony? Nahhh.

377

You want conspiracy theory? Here's one.

305 landed at Helena MT prior to flying on to Spokane and then to Portland where the hijacking commenced. Guess who visited Helena that day and was living about 60 miles away? The Unabomber? Ted had moved to MT late in '71 to take up residence in his one room cabin at Lincoln MT and used to ride his bike into into Lincoln then take the bus to Helena, if he could not get a ride. Any other coincidences? Yes, but Im not going into it. Did anyone ask if Ted was Cooper? Yes, but Im not going into it. Why did they ask? Im not going into it.

Was Cooper from the Chicago area? Is there anything to place him in the Chicago area aside from his 'midwestern accent' and a few specific phrases he used? Has a linguistic-psycho 'ideolect' been assembled for Cooper as it was for Theodore Kaczynski, which traced Ted specifically to Chicago?

 :nono: 

But maybe this is too sophisticated for this forum . . .
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Robert99 on September 30, 2017, 01:46:56 AM
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When you can't solve a crime with credible evidence, the conspiracy theorists will come to your rescue. Every time.

Speaking of conspiracy theories, some long suppressed/withheld/classified JFK murder evidence is scheduled for imminent release. I doubt if it will prove a multi-person or Cuban govt. assassination conspiracy. Some scholars have speculated that it will reveal more about Oswald's activities in Mexico City.

I give zero credibility to a crew conspiracy in Norjack. I don't share Ckret's view of airline personnel as saints however.

http://www.nytimes.com/1990/08/21/us/northwest-pilots-are-found-guilty-of-drunken-flying.html?mcubz=0

http://www.thedailybeast.com/busted-for-heroin-when-pilots-fly-high

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Helle_Crafts

The crew conspiracy theory doesn't pass a basic logic test. $200K split 5 ways for a super risky felony? Nahhh.

377

You want conspiracy theory? Here's one.

305 landed at Helena MT prior to flying on to Spokane and then to Portland where the hijacking commenced. Guess who visited Helena that day and was living about 60 miles away? The Unabomber? Ted had moved to MT late in '71 to take up residence in his one room cabin at Lincoln MT and used to ride his bike into into Lincoln then take the bus to Helena, if he could not get a ride. Any other coincidences? Yes, but Im not going into it. Did anyone ask if Ted was Cooper? Yes, but Im not going into it. Why did they ask? Im not going into it.

Was Cooper from the Chicago area? Is there anything to place him in the Chicago area aside from his 'midwestern accent' and a few specific phrases he used? Has a linguistic-psycho 'ideolect' been assembled for Cooper as it was for Theodore Kaczynski, which traced Ted specifically to Chicago?

 :nono: 

But maybe this is too sophisticated for this forum . . .

Let's keep trying to get a professional criminal profiler interested in the Cooper hijacking.  If we could get one interested, we would need to keep the profiler away from this site as well as the DZ site so that he/she could focus on the facts.  And never let the profiler and Bruce Smith get together. >:D
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on September 30, 2017, 02:02:38 AM
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You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
When you can't solve a crime with credible evidence, the conspiracy theorists will come to your rescue. Every time.

Speaking of conspiracy theories, some long suppressed/withheld/classified JFK murder evidence is scheduled for imminent release. I doubt if it will prove a multi-person or Cuban govt. assassination conspiracy. Some scholars have speculated that it will reveal more about Oswald's activities in Mexico City.

I give zero credibility to a crew conspiracy in Norjack. I don't share Ckret's view of airline personnel as saints however.

http://www.nytimes.com/1990/08/21/us/northwest-pilots-are-found-guilty-of-drunken-flying.html?mcubz=0

http://www.thedailybeast.com/busted-for-heroin-when-pilots-fly-high

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Helle_Crafts

The crew conspiracy theory doesn't pass a basic logic test. $200K split 5 ways for a super risky felony? Nahhh.

377

You want conspiracy theory? Here's one.

305 landed at Helena MT prior to flying on to Spokane and then to Portland where the hijacking commenced. Guess who visited Helena that day and was living about 60 miles away? The Unabomber? Ted had moved to MT late in '71 to take up residence in his one room cabin at Lincoln MT and used to ride his bike into into Lincoln then take the bus to Helena, if he could not get a ride. Any other coincidences? Yes, but Im not going into it. Did anyone ask if Ted was Cooper? Yes, but Im not going into it. Why did they ask? Im not going into it.

Was Cooper from the Chicago area? Is there anything to place him in the Chicago area aside from his 'midwestern accent' and a few specific phrases he used? Has a linguistic-psycho 'ideolect' been assembled for Cooper as it was for Theodore Kaczynski, which traced Ted specifically to Chicago?

 :nono: 

But maybe this is too sophisticated for this forum . . .

Let's keep trying to get a professional criminal profiler interested in the Cooper hijacking.  If we could get one interested, we would need to keep the profiler away from this site as well as the DZ site so that he/she could focus on the facts.  And never let the profiler and Bruce Smith get together. >:D

A real profiler will not be influenced by 'personalities' here. There is a circle of people I assembled. The matter is being discussed. More will follow ... when we all get the time! These are serious people.  But this is a very busy time of the year and people really are stretching it even to exchange email about this ... I will do what I can.

On the matter of the radar tapes I was able to find Ckret's post on the matter but, I could not find the origin of that question (who brought it up) and any string of posts or discussion about the matter at DZ. Any hints you can give would be very helpful!  :)
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Robert99 on September 30, 2017, 02:09:23 AM
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You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
When you can't solve a crime with credible evidence, the conspiracy theorists will come to your rescue. Every time.

Speaking of conspiracy theories, some long suppressed/withheld/classified JFK murder evidence is scheduled for imminent release. I doubt if it will prove a multi-person or Cuban govt. assassination conspiracy. Some scholars have speculated that it will reveal more about Oswald's activities in Mexico City.

I give zero credibility to a crew conspiracy in Norjack. I don't share Ckret's view of airline personnel as saints however.

http://www.nytimes.com/1990/08/21/us/northwest-pilots-are-found-guilty-of-drunken-flying.html?mcubz=0

http://www.thedailybeast.com/busted-for-heroin-when-pilots-fly-high

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Helle_Crafts

The crew conspiracy theory doesn't pass a basic logic test. $200K split 5 ways for a super risky felony? Nahhh.

377

You want conspiracy theory? Here's one.

305 landed at Helena MT prior to flying on to Spokane and then to Portland where the hijacking commenced. Guess who visited Helena that day and was living about 60 miles away? The Unabomber? Ted had moved to MT late in '71 to take up residence in his one room cabin at Lincoln MT and used to ride his bike into into Lincoln then take the bus to Helena, if he could not get a ride. Any other coincidences? Yes, but Im not going into it. Did anyone ask if Ted was Cooper? Yes, but Im not going into it. Why did they ask? Im not going into it.

Was Cooper from the Chicago area? Is there anything to place him in the Chicago area aside from his 'midwestern accent' and a few specific phrases he used? Has a linguistic-psycho 'ideolect' been assembled for Cooper as it was for Theodore Kaczynski, which traced Ted specifically to Chicago?

 :nono: 

But maybe this is too sophisticated for this forum . . .

Let's keep trying to get a professional criminal profiler interested in the Cooper hijacking.  If we could get one interested, we would need to keep the profiler away from this site as well as the DZ site so that he/she could focus on the facts.  And never let the profiler and Bruce Smith get together. >:D

A real profiler will not be influenced by 'personalities' here. There is a circle of people I assembled. The matter is being discussed. More will follow ... when we all get the time! These are serious people.  But this is a very busy time of the year and people really are stretching it even to exchange email about this ... I will do what I can.

On the matter of the radar tapes I was able to find Ckret's post on the matter but, I could not find the origin of that question (who brought it up) and any string of posts or discussion about the matter at DZ. Any hints you can give would be very helpful!  :)

I'll keep looking for that piece of paper.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on September 30, 2017, 02:10:23 AM
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You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
When you can't solve a crime with credible evidence, the conspiracy theorists will come to your rescue. Every time.

Speaking of conspiracy theories, some long suppressed/withheld/classified JFK murder evidence is scheduled for imminent release. I doubt if it will prove a multi-person or Cuban govt. assassination conspiracy. Some scholars have speculated that it will reveal more about Oswald's activities in Mexico City.

I give zero credibility to a crew conspiracy in Norjack. I don't share Ckret's view of airline personnel as saints however.

http://www.nytimes.com/1990/08/21/us/northwest-pilots-are-found-guilty-of-drunken-flying.html?mcubz=0

http://www.thedailybeast.com/busted-for-heroin-when-pilots-fly-high

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Helle_Crafts

The crew conspiracy theory doesn't pass a basic logic test. $200K split 5 ways for a super risky felony? Nahhh.

377

You want conspiracy theory? Here's one.

305 landed at Helena MT prior to flying on to Spokane and then to Portland where the hijacking commenced. Guess who visited Helena that day and was living about 60 miles away? The Unabomber? Ted had moved to MT late in '71 to take up residence in his one room cabin at Lincoln MT and used to ride his bike into into Lincoln then take the bus to Helena, if he could not get a ride. Any other coincidences? Yes, but Im not going into it. Did anyone ask if Ted was Cooper? Yes, but Im not going into it. Why did they ask? Im not going into it.

Was Cooper from the Chicago area? Is there anything to place him in the Chicago area aside from his 'midwestern accent' and a few specific phrases he used? Has a linguistic-psycho 'ideolect' been assembled for Cooper as it was for Theodore Kaczynski, which traced Ted specifically to Chicago?

 :nono: 

But maybe this is too sophisticated for this forum . . .

Let's keep trying to get a professional criminal profiler interested in the Cooper hijacking.  If we could get one interested, we would need to keep the profiler away from this site as well as the DZ site so that he/she could focus on the facts.  And never let the profiler and Bruce Smith get together. >:D

A real profiler will not be influenced by 'personalities' here. There is a circle of people I assembled. The matter is being discussed. More will follow ... when we all get the time! These are serious people.  But this is a very busy time of the year and people really are stretching it even to exchange email about this ... I will do what I can.

On the matter of the radar tapes I was able to find Ckret's post on the matter but, I could not find the origin of that question (who brought it up) and any string of posts or discussion about the matter at DZ. Any hints you can give would be very helpful!  :)

I'll keep looking for that piece of paper.
ok tnx
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on September 30, 2017, 05:05:45 PM
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...  And never let the profiler and Bruce Smith get together...


Why not?
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on September 30, 2017, 06:34:11 PM
So I gather that a small cadre of Forum researchers would like to find a DB Cooper profiler. What would such an individual look like? I suggest the following:

1. Willing to work with the researchers here.
2. Has the time.
3. Knows how to profile
4. Able to discriminate artfully and be selective with journalists
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on September 30, 2017, 06:46:12 PM
An alternative to recruiting a DB Cooper profiler

We may not need a profiler if the following protocols are followed:

1. Assume all profiles are accurate.
2. Develop scenarios projected by the behaviors of the profiled individual, ie: ill-prepared, bumbling idiot who knew just enough to get himself killed. Or, commando with a SOG extraction team, etc. Or, disgruntled helo jock recently kicked out of the Army due to sociopathic tendencies.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: barefootboy3001 on October 02, 2017, 04:12:18 AM
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I have heard, and have been asked numerous times if Bill Rataczak was in on the caper, along with Tina Mucklow. I have never heard that Scotty has been implicated by anyone - no matter how strong the winds of the Cooper Vortex blow.

I see no evidence that any of the crew were accomplices in the skyjacking. Further, the behavior of the crew during and after the hijacking is compelling evidence to me that they were not involved in any manner. I recommend that you watch some of the YouTube videos of CBS TV interviews with Tina afterwards to see her compassion and concern for the passengers, and her acknowledgement of the dangers DBC presented.

Along those lines, I truly commiserate with Tina on how many scenarios have been put forward by pundits on how she assisted DBC, fell in love with him, had sex with him, got a pay-off later, was visited by him in Gresham, etc. That stuff really turns my stomach, and when I think of what she has had to endure from those folks I have a degree of sympathy for how she treats me and other investigators. One of the biggest Norjak mysteries I have stumbled upon is how Jo Weber has been embraced by the Dormuths despite some of the things she claims about Duane and Tina.

The bigger question, and ultimately a more interesting one, is why some people persist in perceiving the crew as co-conspirators. It speaks to a deep cynicism and mistrust, imho.

Can you speak to any of this, Barefootin'?

I can speak. I was merely curious about all different alleys of Coopers possible ways of getting away with what he did. I'm writing a research paper about Cooper and i was interested if there were any evidence about this idea out there that i couldn't find. I never really thought about Mucklow being involved but had had thoughts about Rataczak being involved what with how his testimony came out and then of course, pure gut feeling. I don't like using consipracy theories to solve ANY mystery, no matter how intriuging. I do however, enjoy reading them. People who use theories to "solve" mysteries are very low in my opinion. Sorry if i hit any nerves with that. I was just interested.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: JLa on October 02, 2017, 10:20:32 AM
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I have heard, and have been asked numerous times if Bill Rataczak was in on the caper, along with Tina Mucklow. I have never heard that Scotty has been implicated by anyone - no matter how strong the winds of the Cooper Vortex blow.

I see no evidence that any of the crew were accomplices in the skyjacking. Further, the behavior of the crew during and after the hijacking is compelling evidence to me that they were not involved in any manner. I recommend that you watch some of the YouTube videos of CBS TV interviews with Tina afterwards to see her compassion and concern for the passengers, and her acknowledgement of the dangers DBC presented.

Along those lines, I truly commiserate with Tina on how many scenarios have been put forward by pundits on how she assisted DBC, fell in love with him, had sex with him, got a pay-off later, was visited by him in Gresham, etc. That stuff really turns my stomach, and when I think of what she has had to endure from those folks I have a degree of sympathy for how she treats me and other investigators. One of the biggest Norjak mysteries I have stumbled upon is how Jo Weber has been embraced by the Dormuths despite some of the things she claims about Duane and Tina.

The bigger question, and ultimately a more interesting one, is why some people persist in perceiving the crew as co-conspirators. It speaks to a deep cynicism and mistrust, imho.

Can you speak to any of this, Barefootin'?

I can speak. I was merely curious about all different alleys of Coopers possible ways of getting away with what he did. I'm writing a research paper about Cooper and i was interested if there were any evidence about this idea out there that i couldn't find. I never really thought about Mucklow being involved but had had thoughts about Rataczak being involved what with how his testimony came out and then of course, pure gut feeling. I don't like using consipracy theories to solve ANY mystery, no matter how intriuging. I do however, enjoy reading them. People who use theories to "solve" mysteries are very low in my opinion. Sorry if i hit any nerves with that. I was just interested.



A research paper for college?!?!?!

Sorry that's an inside joke for two...eh Bruce?!
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: 377 on October 02, 2017, 01:33:04 PM
Barefoot wrote: "I don't like using conspiracy theories to solve ANY mystery, no matter how intriuging. I do however, enjoy reading them. People who use theories to "solve" mysteries are very low in my opinion. "

+1.

I too enjoy reading conspiracy theories, as entertainment not actual crime mystery solutions. The 911 conspiracy folks have taken things to a new level. Fake airliners carrying external explosive payloads. Nano Thermite. Cruise missiles. Holgraphic projections.

There is no Norjack conspiracy. An unknown guy skyjacked a plane and jumped out with the loot. Period. That's my skeptical opinion. The real mystery is why we cannot figure out who he was. Why has it proven so damned difficult?

377
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: DovidFraiman on October 02, 2017, 01:52:54 PM
attention 377

o you think harold waldemar fritzler in the attached picture could be db cooper

how many people who worked at tektronix resemble florence's 1988 unsolved mysteries sketch

i believe people in general smoked more often but look at the link below in the upper right hand corner it says fritzler

http://www.americanairmuseum.com/media/25653

he was in the 491st bombardment group based at mcchord

he lived in the midwest until he was about 14

carol in the obituary also says he was part of the famous 101st airborne

i believe tektronix did manufacture cathode ray tubes in 1971

https://patents.google.com/patent/US3747173A/en?q=cathode&q=tube&assignee=tektronix&before=filing:19711231&after=19710101&scholar&num=100

https://patents.google.com/patent/US3710179A/en?q=cathode&q=tube&assignee=tektronix&before=filing:19711231&after=19710101&scholar&num=100

https://patents.google.com/patent/US3748585A/en?q=cathode&q=tube&assignee=tektronix&before=filing:19711231&after=19710101&scholar&num=100

https://patents.google.com/patent/US3798494A/en?q=cathode&q=tube&assignee=tektronix&before=filing:19711231&after=19710101&scholar&num=100

https://patents.google.com/patent/NL169381C/en?q=cathode&q=tube&assignee=tektronix&before=filing:19711231&after=19710101&scholar&num=100

https://patents.google.com/patent/GB1291027A/en?q=cathode&q=tube&assignee=tektronix&before=filing:19711231&after=19710101&scholar&num=100

https://patents.google.com/patent/GB1294425A/en?q=cathode&q=tube&assignee=tektronix&before=filing:19711231&after=19710101&scholar&num=100

https://patents.google.com/patent/GB1306761A/en?q=cathode&q=tube&assignee=tektronix&before=filing:19711231&after=19710101&scholar&num=100

http://www.fuitenrosehoyt.com/obituary/Harold-Fritzler/Cornelius-OR/933072


https://themountainnewswa.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/composite-flos-tv-1988-csluggo.jpg

please look at these links

what is your opinion




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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #3865 on: Today at 09:17:03 AM »
Withdraw ThanksQuote
Absolutely, Fritzler looks like the Cooper sketches,especially the brow ridge structure.... I'd say he runs second to James Klansnic, a dead ringer if there ever was one...    but yes.  :bravo:
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on October 02, 2017, 02:19:31 PM
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attention 377

o you think harold waldemar fritzler in the attached picture could be db cooper

how many people who worked at tektronix resemble florence's 1988 unsolved mysteries sketch

i believe people in general smoked more often but look at the link below in the upper right hand corner it says fritzler

http://www.americanairmuseum.com/media/25653

he was in the 491st bombardment group based at mcchord

he lived in the midwest until he was about 14

carol in the obituary also says he was part of the famous 101st airborne

i believe tektronix did manufacture cathode ray tubes in 1971

https://patents.google.com/patent/US3747173A/en?q=cathode&q=tube&assignee=tektronix&before=filing:19711231&after=19710101&scholar&num=100

https://patents.google.com/patent/US3710179A/en?q=cathode&q=tube&assignee=tektronix&before=filing:19711231&after=19710101&scholar&num=100

https://patents.google.com/patent/US3748585A/en?q=cathode&q=tube&assignee=tektronix&before=filing:19711231&after=19710101&scholar&num=100

https://patents.google.com/patent/US3798494A/en?q=cathode&q=tube&assignee=tektronix&before=filing:19711231&after=19710101&scholar&num=100

https://patents.google.com/patent/NL169381C/en?q=cathode&q=tube&assignee=tektronix&before=filing:19711231&after=19710101&scholar&num=100

https://patents.google.com/patent/GB1291027A/en?q=cathode&q=tube&assignee=tektronix&before=filing:19711231&after=19710101&scholar&num=100

https://patents.google.com/patent/GB1294425A/en?q=cathode&q=tube&assignee=tektronix&before=filing:19711231&after=19710101&scholar&num=100

https://patents.google.com/patent/GB1306761A/en?q=cathode&q=tube&assignee=tektronix&before=filing:19711231&after=19710101&scholar&num=100

http://www.fuitenrosehoyt.com/obituary/Harold-Fritzler/Cornelius-OR/933072


https://themountainnewswa.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/composite-flos-tv-1988-csluggo.jpg

please look at these links

what is your opinion




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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #3865 on: Today at 09:17:03 AM »
Withdraw ThanksQuote
Absolutely, Fritzler looks like the Cooper sketches,especially the brow ridge structure.... I'd say he runs second to James Klansnic, a dead ringer if there ever was one...    but yes.  :bravo:

OMG THAT'S HIM!
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: DovidFraiman on October 02, 2017, 02:21:52 PM
please forgive me

but are you being serious

i hope i am not offending you
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: dice on October 02, 2017, 04:04:23 PM
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please forgive me

but are you being serious

i hope i am not offending you

Disregard the sarcasm coming from these "experts" here... experts, that is, in a no solve.  Keep at you search, Dov.  And if you offended anyone, well, imagine putting all smart alecs here in a bag, and if you hit the bag with the stick, whoever gets hit, would likely have deserved it.   :rofl:
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on October 02, 2017, 04:04:37 PM
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please forgive me

but are you being serious

i hope i am not offending you

Have you ever seen Flo's approved sketch? Actually she contributed to two different sketches at two different times. The attached is from Sluggo's site.

Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: DovidFraiman on October 02, 2017, 04:08:34 PM
in reply to georger

i watch the unsolved mysteries episode about db cooper

Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on October 02, 2017, 04:15:55 PM
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in reply to georger

i watch the unsolved mysteries episode about db cooper

Its just another unresolvable paradox. That's why hard evidence is preferred - dna etc. Because there is no way to resolve disagreement about sketches decades after the fact! That is basically why I can't get excited when people start saying 'this looks like him, that looks like him, etc etc.' Has nothing to do with sarcasm but the limitation of evidence.

The problem started with Flo almost as soon as FBI sketches started to be published -  she basically said none look like him even though she herself had contributed to the first sketches made.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: DovidFraiman on October 02, 2017, 04:17:33 PM
oh
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: DovidFraiman on October 02, 2017, 04:21:13 PM
yes but in unsolved mysteries she says yeah that's it
in reference to the new sketch

Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on October 02, 2017, 04:22:26 PM
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oh

An additional problem is we don't know how the witnesses were deposed. What questions were they asked which resulted in sketches? Were they shown photos or models, types of faces... ? We dont know how any sketches were arrived at ... at all!
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on October 02, 2017, 04:24:02 PM
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yes but in unsolved mysteries she says yeah that's it
in reference to the new sketch

well I cant vouch for the accuracy of Unsolved Mysteries, ..... who also did an early program on us! Bet you didn't know that!  Fun times - thank god they are over never to return.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: DovidFraiman on October 02, 2017, 04:32:01 PM
i did not know that



Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: DovidFraiman on October 02, 2017, 05:20:59 PM
https://archive.org/stream/D.B.Cooper/D.B.%20Cooper%2005_djvu.txt
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: DovidFraiman on October 02, 2017, 06:46:01 PM
Hal Williams also said the sketch was inaccurate

http://www.thedbcooperforum.com/gallery/?sa=view;pic=22
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: MeyerLouie on October 02, 2017, 08:58:36 PM
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i did not know that

Go with Tina's description,  she sat next to the guy for 5 hours.  No one would know better than her.
Meyer
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: DovidFraiman on October 02, 2017, 09:09:21 PM
In reply to meyerlouie do you think Harold fritzler could fit Tina's description

https://books.google.com/books?id=01dWQTJamLkC&pg=PA91&lpg=PA91&dq=skyjack+tina+noses&source=bl&ots=6KuSbskXjs&sig=i74uyvXr1pvJCgVMYx2m3MOL9JA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiN__n6oNPWAhUK6IMKHQXnBBEQ6AEIHjAE#v=onepage&q=%20tina%20noses&f=false
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on October 04, 2017, 12:16:28 AM
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...I'm writing a research paper about Cooper and i was interested if there were any evidence about this idea out there that i couldn't find...


Sounds interesting, Barefootin'. Please keep us posted.

As for raw nerves, nah, don't worry. You didn't even tickle anything close to tender tissue let alone a nerve ending. After ten years researching in Cooper World and posting in places like this Forum and the DZ, I am virtually bullet-proof, emotionally. Although Georger does manage to get me cranky from time-to-time.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on October 04, 2017, 12:43:59 AM
Greetings Dovid, and welcome to the Forum.

It's good to see you are bringing your ENTHUSIAM to this forum - building upon the many emails and Tektronix musings that you have sent me.

As I have said before, similarity to any of the sketches of DB Cooper is merely a starting point in determining a suspect. It's basically a situation where we can say: "Well, this is an interesting guy because he looks like Composite A, B, Florence's 1980 rendering, a composite sketch by Sluggo's friend Ryan, or the aged sketches provided by the latter. Let's take a closer look at him."

It appears you have commenced that closer look, with looking at parachuting experience, etc. Being part of the 101st Airborne is another good start, but that is not definitive, either. It is simply another step. What we need next is a guy with titanium and rare earth minerals on his tie who also knew how to jump out of a 727 on the morning of November 24, 1971 before DB Cooper taught everyone else on the planet.

As for witnesses, they are not too reliable at this point. Bill Mitchell says he doesn't remember too much and his own credibility is not definitive, either.

Tina is highly selective and her interview with the Eugene Weekly in 2012 is suspect, in my view. Yes, she looked wonderful and credible on the HC docu, but that whole production is suspicious, too, in my opinion for it served too many half-hidden agendas, such as the FBI closing the case. Another aspect of the HC production is how non-enthusiastic the LMNO/HC group was to assisting any further investigation of the elements they brought forward, such as talking in depth with Tom Fuentes about the FBI losing evidence, botching the fingerprints, failure to determine the flight path, and their lack of any substantive investigation of the titanium and tie particles, etc.

Florence is also suspect. She refuses any direct communication with anyone at this point - I'm not even sure the HC people were able to get through to her. Gray was able, prior to 2011, but do you believe his report that Flo told him that the pix of Kenny Christiansen was the "closest resemblance to the skyjacker of anything she has seen," (or words to that effect). I don't believe that is truthful. It may be, but there is no way to confirm it since Flo won't talk. Plus, GG has deceived me in other ways, such as giving me the wrong phone number to Mitchell. (It was the wrong Bill Mitchell.) Further, Bill says he doesn't remember talking to Geoffrey, yet GG attributes plenty to him in his book.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: barefootboy3001 on October 04, 2017, 06:06:47 AM
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...I'm writing a research paper about Cooper and i was interested if there were any evidence about this idea out there that i couldn't find...


Sounds interesting, Barefootin'. Please keep us posted.

Will do that Bruce!
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: DovidFraiman on October 04, 2017, 09:03:09 AM
in reply to bruce


why is florence suspect because she doesnt want to talk to anyone

is she obligated to talk to anyone

Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on October 23, 2017, 05:37:52 PM
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in reply to bruce


why is florence suspect because she doesnt want to talk to anyone

is she obligated to talk to anyone

Florence is not suspect in my view just because she refuses to talk with anyone. I call that a "red flag of warning." She is suspect for other, more compelling reasons:

1. She is the only one who says she saw Cooper's eyes. Deep, penetrating brown. But others claim Cooper put his sunglasses on before boarding the plane.

2. She was agitated during the hijacking and continued to be in turmoil long afterwards. That suggests that her memories and perceptions may have been colored by fear.

3. Her independent sketch of DB Cooper is in stark contrast to the other sketches.

4. Her announcement to Gray that Kenny C looked the closest to the hijacker than any other pix she had seen has not been confirmed by anyone else. It makes both Flo and GG suspect.

5. The accounts of the hijacking from the flight attendants are in conflict with statements from the passengers.

Now being suspect does necessarily mean that someone is wrong, or their statements incorrect. "Suspect" means that the information is in question and needs further analysis and corroboration.

Yes, I believe that Florence - and all the principals in the hijacking - have an obligation to talk about Norjak with responsible journalists in some kind of substantive fashion. I think it is a duty of citizenship to pursue justice.

That said, I acknowledge that dealing with my colleagues and I is not fun for most people. In those cases, such individuals should hire a publicist, or enlist a friend or family member who can provide answers and information. I have repeatedly offered my services to the Mucklow family free of charge to act as their publicist. All I ask is two hours to talk privately with Tina and get the full story.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on October 24, 2017, 08:36:39 AM
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in reply to bruce


why is florence suspect because she doesnt want to talk to anyone

is she obligated to talk to anyone

Florence is not suspect in my view just because she refuses to talk with anyone. I call that a "red flag of warning." She is suspect for other, more compelling reasons:

1. She is the only one who says she saw Cooper's eyes. Deep, penetrating brown. But others claim Cooper put his sunglasses on before boarding the plane.

2. She was agitated during the hijacking and continued to be in turmoil long afterwards. That suggests that her memories and perceptions may have been colored by fear.

3. Her independent sketch of DB Cooper is in stark contrast to the other sketches.

4. Her announcement to Gray that Kenny C looked the closest to the hijacker than any other pix she had seen has not been confirmed by anyone else. It makes both Flo and GG suspect.

5. The accounts of the hijacking from the flight attendants are in conflict with statements from the passengers.

Now being suspect does necessarily mean that someone is wrong, or their statements incorrect. "Suspect" means that the information is in question and needs further analysis and corroboration.

Yes, I believe that Florence - and all the principals in the hijacking - have an obligation to talk about Norjak with responsible journalists in some kind of substantive fashion. I think it is a duty of citizenship to pursue justice.

That said, I acknowledge that dealing with my colleagues and I is not fun for most people. In those cases, such individuals should hire a publicist, or enlist a friend or family member who can provide answers and information. I have repeatedly offered my services to the Mucklow family free of charge to act as their publicist. All I ask is two hours to talk privately with Tina and get the full story.

... and Cossey is a liar.

Maybe everybody lied - about something!

Throw the whole case out. Find another hobby.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on October 24, 2017, 01:06:25 PM
Just a heads up guys..the forum appears to have some glitches in it. It told me I was banned this morning....if you see this, just wait and it should correct itself. Nobody is being banned. Georger says we have post issues as well. Once I return home I will try and resolve the problem...
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on October 24, 2017, 03:21:22 PM
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Just a heads up guys..the forum appears to have some glitches in it. It told me I was banned this morning....if you see this, just wait and it should correct itself. Nobody is being banned. Georger says we have post issues as well. Once I return home I will try and resolve the problem...

I think its just a glitch - messages I got last night were 'server busy' ? Anyone else get that last night? It has happened before... in 30 mins it was back up.

TC has asked for a copy of my FBI files sorted index (by subject) - I told Tom no problem and I will get Shutter a copy also, for the vault. As new pdfs arrive I will add them to the list. Still sorting out duplication and cleaning each file! Give me about a week to make sure each file is clean with no duplication. 
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on October 24, 2017, 05:21:42 PM
I had server problems as well. The glitches seemed to come and go - sometimes I could access the Forum, other times not.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on October 24, 2017, 06:54:53 PM
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I had server problems as well. The glitches seemed to come and go - sometimes I could access the Forum, other times not.

did you get a HTTP error?

I was actually banned  C:-) couldn't sign on..
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: JLa on October 24, 2017, 07:34:32 PM
I didn't get any error codes but the posts all stop around October 2 and start again on October 23. I'm kind of confused by that. Anyone else have these issues?
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on October 24, 2017, 09:29:46 PM
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I didn't get any error codes but the posts all stop around October 2 and start again on October 23. I'm kind of confused by that. Anyone else have these issues?


This should answer everyone's questions.....

Hello,
Unfortunately the server you are hosted on had a MySQL failure that resulted in us having to restore all users databases to a previous date and time. This has resulted in some data loss. We are very sorry for this and have cleared up the error so we are not expecting this to happen again. This type of problem is very rare but can happen, because of this we recommend all users create a local backup of their files and databases just in case problems like this do occur.
Kind regards,
John Yancey
----------------------------------------------
Ticket ID: #158532
Subject: access
Status: Answered


Now, the server has backup files, but not for everyday. the forum itself can be restored to find the missing files, but we will loose anything past the new backup. I think it's best to leave it as it is. I don't think a lot is missing that is vital?
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: DovidFraiman on October 24, 2017, 10:09:51 PM
does anyone have bill mitchells email address

or can contact him for me
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on October 24, 2017, 10:14:57 PM
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does anyone have bill mitchells email address

or can contact him for me

Not me. I wish I had his address, though.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: DovidFraiman on October 24, 2017, 10:46:24 PM
in reply to bruce

didnt i email you his address
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on October 25, 2017, 01:53:08 AM
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in reply to bruce

didnt i email you his address

Nope.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: JLa on November 26, 2017, 08:03:06 AM
So last night I rewatched the Expedition Unknown episode and I discovered two things:

1. 50 beers is a lot of beer

2. The Gary Hall "snippet" was interesting. At first I thought they just threw it in there so they could have him go skydiving (they probably did) but when I rewatched it, I saw they described him as an "author." So that got me thinking; what did he write? So I did some old fashioned internet searching and found an article that he wrote. After reading it; it sort of filled in the gaps to his theory and more importantly to me; explained how he arrived at those conclusions.

   Now I'm not saying that I believe it all but I did find it quite interesting. When I looked on the forum, I didn't see it anywhere or anyone referencing it. If they did or it's on here; apologies to you and if I'm ever in your state and someone gives me 50 beers; I'm gladly share them with you!  :chr2:

   I've included the link below if anyone wants to check it out!


https://retiredinvestigator.files.wordpress.com/2016/07/updateddbcooperstepoutoftheshadowupdatedoct20161.pdf


Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on November 26, 2017, 09:08:34 AM
he has a couple problems with his theory. I sent him an email a while back. he wasn't aware of the missing D rings on the harness, and believes the money was planted. he didn't realize there were two issues with the stairs, not just one of him on the stairs. the pressure bump was when the stairs retract back up. Cooper would of had to have fooled them twice. I believe they would have notice he was on the stairs (again) while approaching Reno. I believe the FBI had the area pretty well covered.

part of his email

" I believe "DB Cooper" planted the money in the river bed (during late 1970's) as a way to "toy" with law enforcement and to spark media interest in the case once again."

Personally, I think it's odd that someone could believe this is a good way to "Toy" with them when the money might not of ever been found. the best way to "toy" with them would be sending them a 20 dollar bill, and signing the name Dan Cooper and not DB Cooper..
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: JLa on November 26, 2017, 09:20:21 AM
Yep, I agree with you my friend! That's what I mean by not agreeing with everything he said and just posting the link because it filled in some of the gaps he left open on the show.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on November 26, 2017, 09:23:04 AM
The show was going to use me and my simulator in the show, but this guy got me bumped off the show since Josh wanted to skydive which I can appreciate. that's show biz, as they say  :rofl:
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on November 26, 2017, 01:55:32 PM
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Well I thought Josh and crew did a pretty good job! Congrats to everyone on this forum that had a chance to voice their ideas.

I have to get my ISP to upload the full list of particles because the Excel file is about 40 meg. There is a lot of searching to do in the particle list of this size. We hope this adds to the titanium find.

On another note one of the crew was searching google while we were filming and found a reference to the SST having the first ever CRT tube in the dashboard.  It would make sense that the chassis for that CRT might be out of titanium. Fertile ground.......

Tom Kaye

Some types of titanium are also used in the paint for high speed aircraft and space craft.  Further, I understand that titanium can also be found in foods.

Everyone is assuming the tie and Cooper shared life together. That the tie was Cooper's tie and particles on the tie document Cooper's life. But, what if the tie came out of a scrap bin at a recycling center?  Gray is attacking Cooper's appearance and description saying that Gregory's description is accurate and Cooper looked 'disheveled'.  Maybe he spent the night before the hijacking in the alley around the corner from the recycling center? Because there is literally nothing that ties the tie to Cooper so far, except for Tom's assumption.  :))


what I think Gray is doing, is what many do. they rely too much on passenger descriptions. I don't think it was a point to hide that certain description as much as they used it for weight, which didn't weight in very well on the conclusion of Cooper's description.

Gray always has focused on the a-typical. The unusual. It gets ratings and Gray is a salesman first and foremost looking for something unusual to peddle. That is why he jumped at the Christiansen idea. He came away saying privately there was no way Kenny was Cooper, but Gray avoided saying that publicly because he did not want to bothch the opportunity for 'a sale'! As his article became more widely known (even noteworthy) he still failed to tell the truth.

This avoidance of telling the whole story has tainted Gray's work to this day. There are numerous examples of this. The Gregory notes may be another example. 'Two types of silver' was another example. His publishing of Tom's work, another example. His failure to tell the whole story about Kenny's relationships, another example.

Gregory's description is so different right down to the color of Cooper's suit coat, how could the people closest to Cooper have missed that!? You almost have to assume they were blind! Carr never did address this basic problem. Its problems like this created by Gray (and Gregory) that has opened the door to conspiracy theorists ... right down to one guy claiming the Laws of physical optics are different in the cabins of airplanes! (Blevins)

I know for a fact Gray plays with the truth. I became the subject of that personally! Gray uses people. To his own advantage as he judges that at any given point in time. He thinks it will never come back to haunt him. Gray is an opportunist.       
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Robert99 on November 26, 2017, 02:16:23 PM
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he has a couple problems with his theory. I sent him an email a while back. he wasn't aware of the missing D rings on the harness, and believes the money was planted. he didn't realize there were two issues with the stairs, not just one of him on the stairs. the pressure bump was when the stairs retract back up. Cooper would of had to have fooled them twice. I believe they would have notice he was on the stairs (again) while approaching Reno. I believe the FBI had the area pretty well covered.

part of his email

" I believe "DB Cooper" planted the money in the river bed (during late 1970's) as a way to "toy" with law enforcement and to spark media interest in the case once again."

Personally, I think it's odd that someone could believe this is a good way to "Toy" with them when the money might not of ever been found. the best way to "toy" with them would be sending them a 20 dollar bill, and signing the name Dan Cooper and not DB Cooper..

Hall also has a number of other problems, but those should be obvious to most of the people on this site.

One of his claims that won't hold water is that the DC-9 cannot be jumped from a rear door.  A few years ago a lady who was a skydiver in the early years of the sport told me that she (and presumably a number of other jumpers) had jumped from the rear door of a DC-9 that was at 20,000 feet.  She said that she didn't have any problems during the exit or free fall until she was at about 10,000 feet, where she started tumbling.

But she survived.  She also was a judge at the 1974 Skydiving Nationals in Oklahoma.  And at one point she was operating three jump zones.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on November 26, 2017, 03:32:22 PM
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So last night I rewatched the Expedition Unknown episode and I discovered two things:

1. 50 beers is a lot of beer

2. The Gary Hall "snippet" was interesting. At first I thought they just threw it in there so they could have him go skydiving (they probably did) but when I rewatched it, I saw they described him as an "author." So that got me thinking; what did he write? So I did some old fashioned internet searching and found an article that he wrote. After reading it; it sort of filled in the gaps to his theory and more importantly to me; explained how he arrived at those conclusions.

   Now I'm not saying that I believe it all but I did find it quite interesting. When I looked on the forum, I didn't see it anywhere or anyone referencing it. If they did or it's on here; apologies to you and if I'm ever in your state and someone gives me 50 beers; I'm gladly share them with you!  :chr2:

   I've included the link below if anyone wants to check it out!


https://retiredinvestigator.files.wordpress.com/2016/07/updateddbcooperstepoutoftheshadowupdatedoct20161.pdf

Gary Hall was quite active in the Cooper community for a while - and it got him on TV. I know that Gary emailed me several times, and I believed he posted here and at the Mountain News-WA. But he was resolute in his Cooper perspectives and unable to discuss them in any substantive way with me.

Eventually, he gave up on me converting to his faith. I found him to be like a Mormon missionary - intense for fifteen minutes, but when they see they aren't making any inroads they walk away, and don't ever look back.

Further, I thought the Josh Gates skydive into Reno sagebrush detracted from the show. It seemed like he was using the DB Cooper story to take a jump from an airplane. The visuals sure made good TV, but lousy storytelling to follow the initial segment of the show, which was T-Bar and the money. I wish EU had stayed with the flight path issues, R99's theories, inconsistencies in federal docs, etc., and let Josh jump in another episode of EU.

If Josh really wanted to explore the Unknown, I would have loved to see him recapitulate the Cooper jump. Can you imagine a whole episode of skydivers jumping into LZ-A and watching their experiences unfold? Now that would make fascinating TV.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: MeyerLouie on November 26, 2017, 04:35:51 PM
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Well I thought Josh and crew did a pretty good job! Congrats to everyone on this forum that had a chance to voice their ideas.

I have to get my ISP to upload the full list of particles because the Excel file is about 40 meg. There is a lot of searching to do in the particle list of this size. We hope this adds to the titanium find.

On another note one of the crew was searching google while we were filming and found a reference to the SST having the first ever CRT tube in the dashboard.  It would make sense that the chassis for that CRT might be out of titanium. Fertile ground.......

Tom Kaye

Some types of titanium are also used in the paint for high speed aircraft and space craft.  Further, I understand that titanium can also be found in foods.

Everyone is assuming the tie and Cooper shared life together. That the tie was Cooper's tie and particles on the tie document Cooper's life. But, what if the tie came out of a scrap bin at a recycling center?  Gray is attacking Cooper's appearance and description saying that Gregory's description is accurate and Cooper looked 'disheveled'.  Maybe he spent the night before the hijacking in the alley around the corner from the recycling center? Because there is literally nothing that ties the tie to Cooper so far, except for Tom's assumption.  :))


what I think Gray is doing, is what many do. they rely too much on passenger descriptions. I don't think it was a point to hide that certain description as much as they used it for weight, which didn't weight in very well on the conclusion of Cooper's description.

Gray always has focused on the a-typical. The unusual. It gets ratings and Gray is a salesman first and foremost looking for something unusual to peddle. That is why he jumped at the Christiansen idea. He came away saying privately there was no way Kenny was Cooper, but Gray avoided saying that publicly because he did not want to bothch the opportunity for 'a sale'! As his article became more widely known (even noteworthy) he still failed to tell the truth.

This avoidance of telling the whole story has tainted Gray's work to this day. There are numerous examples of this. The Gregory notes may be another example. 'Two types of silver' was another example. His publishing of Tom's work, another example. His failure to tell the whole story about Kenny's relationships, another example.

Gregory's description is so different right down to the color of Cooper's suit coat, how could the people closest to Cooper have missed that!? You almost have to assume they were blind! Carr never did address this basic problem. Its problems like this created by Gray (and Gregory) that has opened the door to conspiracy theorists ... right down to one guy claiming the Laws of physical optics are different in the cabins of airplanes! (Blevins)

I know for a fact Gray plays with the truth. I became the subject of that personally! Gray uses people. To his own advantage as he judges that at any given point in time. He thinks it will never come back to haunt him. Gray is an opportunist.     


My gut feeling about Gray matches up pretty close to your description, Georger.  Not telling the whole truth because it just won't get the attention....I've thought that thought too about GG.
Meyer
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on November 26, 2017, 04:41:11 PM
Quote
Gregory's description is so different right down to the color of Cooper's suit coat, how could the people closest to Cooper have missed that!? You almost have to assume they were blind! Carr never did address this basic problem. Its problems like this created by Gray (and Gregory) that has opened the door to conspiracy theorists ... right down to one guy claiming the Laws of physical optics are different in the cabins of airplanes! (Blevins)

It's basically one of the reasons the FBI didn't put a lot of weight into the passengers descriptions. when you really don't pay much attention to a person it's kind of hard to give a realistic description.

who was at Thanksgiving in 1976, and what were they wearing? not many will know, unless it's about DB Cooper. then the memory is solid..

personally, I think Mitchell could be interviewed by Cooper and not have a clue. I think his memory has faded the most..
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: MeyerLouie on November 26, 2017, 04:47:07 PM
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So last night I rewatched the Expedition Unknown episode and I discovered two things:

1. 50 beers is a lot of beer

2. The Gary Hall "snippet" was interesting. At first I thought they just threw it in there so they could have him go skydiving (they probably did) but when I rewatched it, I saw they described him as an "author." So that got me thinking; what did he write? So I did some old fashioned internet searching and found an article that he wrote. After reading it; it sort of filled in the gaps to his theory and more importantly to me; explained how he arrived at those conclusions.

   Now I'm not saying that I believe it all but I did find it quite interesting. When I looked on the forum, I didn't see it anywhere or anyone referencing it. If they did or it's on here; apologies to you and if I'm ever in your state and someone gives me 50 beers; I'm gladly share them with you!  :chr2:

   I've included the link below if anyone wants to check it out!


https://retiredinvestigator.files.wordpress.com/2016/07/updateddbcooperstepoutoftheshadowupdatedoct20161.pdf



Further, I thought the Josh Gates skydive into Reno sagebrush detracted from the show. It seemed like he was using the DB Cooper story to take a jump from an airplane. The visuals sure made good TV, but lousy storytelling to follow the initial segment of the show, which was T-Bar and the money. I wish EU had stayed with the flight path issues, R99's theories, inconsistencies in federal docs, etc., and let Josh jump in another episode of EU.

If Josh really wanted to explore the Unknown, I would have loved to see him recapitulate the Cooper jump. Can you imagine a whole episode of skydivers jumping into LZ-A and watching their experiences unfold? Now that would make fascinating TV.

Well actually Bruce, the TC program wasn't just about Tina Bar and the money -- that was an important little piece of the puzzle, but there was treatment of the flight path, Ariel, and other important points of the case.  The whole story didn't just focus on the little part you played.  That's probably a traumatic, earth-shattering revelation for you.  Oh well, sometimes you just gotta cowboy up.

You're not going to believe this, but I really like your idea in that last paragraph.  Why have we not tried to duplicate the jump, right down to the last detail?  The FBI put the kabosh on that from the outset.  Why not try several possible, different jumps/scenarios and let the skydivers tell us what they experienced?  That would be fascinating TV and it just might help us find out some things we've wondered about for over 40 years.  We might learn something new and enlightening, it just might nail down some of the known unknowns, once and for all.

Meyer
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: MarkBennett on November 27, 2017, 10:38:44 AM
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Quote
Gregory's description is so different right down to the color of Cooper's suit coat, how could the people closest to Cooper have missed that!? You almost have to assume they were blind! Carr never did address this basic problem. Its problems like this created by Gray (and Gregory) that has opened the door to conspiracy theorists ... right down to one guy claiming the Laws of physical optics are different in the cabins of airplanes! (Blevins)

It's basically one of the reasons the FBI didn't put a lot of weight into the passengers descriptions. when you really don't pay much attention to a person it's kind of hard to give a realistic description.

who was at Thanksgiving in 1976, and what were they wearing? not many will know, unless it's about DB Cooper. then the memory is solid..

personally, I think Mitchell could be interviewed by Cooper and not have a clue. I think his memory has faded the most..

Bill Mitchell would probably agree with you on that.  When I talked to him he said it's pretty much just "bits and pieces" now that he remembers.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on November 27, 2017, 11:01:42 AM
This is where I find it rather concerning that a witness who actually seen Cooper, or even conversed with him have memory issue's. then you read about a witness who talks about a suspect, and they have 20/20 memory? they can recall exact moments in time such as being ran out of a room, or describe things in great detail four decades later, but I'll bet if you ask them what they had for super two months ago on a tuesday and what they were wearing they wouldn't have a clue...

My grandmother had a limp from an accident back in the 50's. I couldn't tell you right now which leg it was. she died in the mid 80's. I have a very good memory dating back to age 3 due to a double hernia. it was a traumatic event that makes me recall this. I have no clue what kind of watch my father had 20 years ago, but he always wore a watch.

I remember at 6 years old I stole all the mail on our street. why do I remember, my dad cracked my ass, that's why. I can remember my mom teaching me how to ride a bike while on training wheels. I remember as far back as 2nd grade. I remember my dad letting me drive the car on his lap at age 7 or 8. age 3 or 4 I dropped a fire engine truck on my brothers head off the stairs..I can't give you any times or dates with these events. I can pinpoint some of them by what house we were living in..

If you really don't have a reason to recall, or remember something, it's going to be erased, or completely distorted from reality. you would be surprised of how much you really don't know about yourself if you had a playback option.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: MeyerLouie on November 28, 2017, 03:17:20 AM
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This is where I find it rather concerning that a witness who actually seen Cooper, or even conversed with him have memory issue's. then you read about a witness who talks about a suspect, and they have 20/20 memory? they can recall exact moments in time such as being ran out of a room, or describe things in great detail four decades later, but I'll bet if you ask them what they had for super two months ago on a tuesday and what they were wearing they wouldn't have a clue...

My grandmother had a limp from an accident back in the 50's. I couldn't tell you right now which leg it was. she died in the mid 80's. I have a very good memory dating back to age 3 due to a double hernia. it was a traumatic event that makes me recall this. I have no clue what kind of watch my father had 20 years ago, but he always wore a watch.

I remember at 6 years old I stole all the mail on our street. why do I remember, my dad cracked my ass, that's why. I can remember my mom teaching me how to ride a bike while on training wheels. I remember as far back as 2nd grade. I remember my dad letting me drive the car on his lap at age 7 or 8. age 3 or 4 I dropped a fire engine truck on my brothers head off the stairs..I can't give you any times or dates with these events. I can pinpoint some of them by what house we were living in..

If you really don't have a reason to recall, or remember something, it's going to be erased, or completely distorted from reality. you would be surprised of how much you really don't know about yourself if you had a playback option.


But on the other hand, there are people with great memories who remember specific things and specific people in great detail years and years later.  I can remember classmates from 2nd and third grade who don't remember me at all.  This happened a couple of years ago, I met a guy, and when I heard his name, i remembered him instantly.  I asked him if he lived in Oroville, WA in 3rd grade, he said yes; I asked him if his 3rd grade teacher was Mrs. Verney, he said yes; I asked him if he had red hair in 3rd grade, he said yes (he used to wear plaid shirts and cheap jeans, and had lots of greasy kid stuff in his hair too, but I didn't mention those things).  Then I told him we were friends in 3rd grade(and we really were).  He did not remember me at all.  I moved away from Oroville, WA after 3rd grade, early 60s,  and didn't see Rodney until 2014. 

It isn't so much I have a great memory, but like you said, one chooses to remember what one wants to remember, and I always made it a priority to remember my friends, since childhood. 

On 11/24/71 I was riding in a car, going home for Thanksgiving break, we were traveling up the Columbia River Gorge in the worst storm I've ever witnessed in the gorge.  One of my classmates in that car does not even remember that night!  I asked her about that night some 5 years ago or so.  She drew a blank, no recall.  What an idiot, I thought, and she became a doctor, an OBGYN.    I guess that night must not have been so memorable for her, although I find that very hard to believe.  She was the most scared in the car that night.  I saw the fear in her eyes and heard it in her voice, she was seriously concerned we were all going to die, and she tells me she doesn't remember?  No way, Jose!

Anyway...

Meyer 

Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on November 28, 2017, 08:14:50 AM
Sure, you always have exceptions to the rule. I just don't believe a majority of them could be witnesses about a suspect in this case.I can believe some of it to a certain extent, but not when you don't have a reason to recall the event decades later. like, remembering someone throwing something away is one of them, or being chased out of a room remembering in detail what was going on.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on November 28, 2017, 09:29:10 AM
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Sure, you always have exceptions to the rule. I just don't believe a majority of them could be witnesses about a suspect in this case.I can believe some of it to a certain extent, but not when you don't have a reason to recall the event decades later. like, remembering someone throwing something away is one of them, or being chased out of a room remembering in detail what was going on.

Memory is why the camera and recording devices were invented! But, once again Cooper was a good psychologist - he took measures: plain dress, dark glasses, no interaction. A phantom in a seat. Gregory was probably remembered more by Cooper than Gregory remembered Cooper!
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on November 28, 2017, 09:47:26 AM
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Sure, you always have exceptions to the rule. I just don't believe a majority of them could be witnesses about a suspect in this case.I can believe some of it to a certain extent, but not when you don't have a reason to recall the event decades later. like, remembering someone throwing something away is one of them, or being chased out of a room remembering in detail what was going on.

Memory is why the camera and recording devices were invented! But, once again Cooper was a good psychologist - he took measures: plain dress, dark glasses, no interaction. A phantom in a seat. Gregory was probably remembered more by Cooper than Gregory remembered Cooper!

I tend to believe since he worked with paint and colors he was trying to take the lead as to what Cooper looked like and wore. very confident with what ever he says..most of the time they are wrong...
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on November 28, 2017, 04:54:51 PM
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Sure, you always have exceptions to the rule. I just don't believe a majority of them could be witnesses about a suspect in this case.I can believe some of it to a certain extent, but not when you don't have a reason to recall the event decades later. like, remembering someone throwing something away is one of them, or being chased out of a room remembering in detail what was going on.

Memory is why the camera and recording devices were invented! But, once again Cooper was a good psychologist - he took measures: plain dress, dark glasses, no interaction. A phantom in a seat. Gregory was probably remembered more by Cooper than Gregory remembered Cooper!

...and Gregory can't remember where he was sitting. One of the things I really enjoy about all the different kinds of docs we are getting is how one 302 and its agent can reveal itsy-bitsy stuff that another agent and his 302 didn't get. Where Robert Gregory was sitting is one of those issues. At this point I'm putting RG in 16 D or 17 D because he had to look over his shoulder to see DBC, not 18C as has been reported in one 302 and echoed by Himmelsbach in one documentary.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on November 28, 2017, 11:47:10 PM
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Sure, you always have exceptions to the rule. I just don't believe a majority of them could be witnesses about a suspect in this case.I can believe some of it to a certain extent, but not when you don't have a reason to recall the event decades later. like, remembering someone throwing something away is one of them, or being chased out of a room remembering in detail what was going on.

Memory is why the camera and recording devices were invented! But, once again Cooper was a good psychologist - he took measures: plain dress, dark glasses, no interaction. A phantom in a seat. Gregory was probably remembered more by Cooper than Gregory remembered Cooper!

I tend to believe since he worked with paint and colors he was trying to take the lead as to what Cooper looked like and wore. very confident with what ever he says..most of the time they are wrong...

You might be right. Trying to invoke his personal expertise (house painter? paint salesman? color charts?)?

The one thing that comes through loud and clear about Gregory is his projection vs. memory. He 'remembers' russet, marcelled hair, and other facial details but 'projects' (what did this guy have that I didnt have that good looking stews were paying so much attention to him and not me)?

Fortunately there were other witnesses. 

 
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: MeyerLouie on November 29, 2017, 05:06:22 AM
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Sure, you always have exceptions to the rule. I just don't believe a majority of them could be witnesses about a suspect in this case.I can believe some of it to a certain extent, but not when you don't have a reason to recall the event decades later. like, remembering someone throwing something away is one of them, or being chased out of a room remembering in detail what was going on.

Memory is why the camera and recording devices were invented! But, once again Cooper was a good psychologist - he took measures: plain dress, dark glasses, no interaction. A phantom in a seat. Gregory was probably remembered more by Cooper than Gregory remembered Cooper!

I tend to believe since he worked with paint and colors he was trying to take the lead as to what Cooper looked like and wore. very confident with what ever he says..most of the time they are wrong...

You might be right. Trying to invoke his personal expertise (house painter? paint salesman? color charts?)?

The one thing that comes through loud and clear about Gregory is his projection vs. memory. He 'remembers' russet, marcelled hair, and other facial details but 'projects' (what did this guy have that I didnt have that good looking stews were paying so much attention to him and not me)?

Fortunately there were other witnesses.


This projecting makes Gregory unreliable, IMO.  When you're trying to get a date with a stew, you are following your dick around, nothing else matters.  Being aware of much of anything else around you just ain't happening.  Maybe Gregory was exaggerating his description of Cooper.  Maybe he thought Cooper must be an Errol Flynn type, he must look pretty good, or be better looking than he, Gregory, is -- that must be why she's paying more attention to him, Cooper, than me, Gregory, -- or so he thinks.  He'll exaggerate Cooper's appearance -- classier hair (french-style marcelled hair, not just straight black hair), classier suit (russet, not just black), and so on.   His perceptions will be affected.  Competition for a woman's attention can do that to a guy.  That's what can happen when the head down there, instead of the one up there, does most of the thinking. 
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on November 29, 2017, 01:37:03 PM
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Sure, you always have exceptions to the rule. I just don't believe a majority of them could be witnesses about a suspect in this case.I can believe some of it to a certain extent, but not when you don't have a reason to recall the event decades later. like, remembering someone throwing something away is one of them, or being chased out of a room remembering in detail what was going on.

Memory is why the camera and recording devices were invented! But, once again Cooper was a good psychologist - he took measures: plain dress, dark glasses, no interaction. A phantom in a seat. Gregory was probably remembered more by Cooper than Gregory remembered Cooper!

I tend to believe since he worked with paint and colors he was trying to take the lead as to what Cooper looked like and wore. very confident with what ever he says..most of the time they are wrong...

You might be right. Trying to invoke his personal expertise (house painter? paint salesman? color charts?)?

The one thing that comes through loud and clear about Gregory is his projection vs. memory. He 'remembers' russet, marcelled hair, and other facial details but 'projects' (what did this guy have that I didnt have that good looking stews were paying so much attention to him and not me)?

Fortunately there were other witnesses.


This projecting makes Gregory unreliable, IMO.  When you're trying to get a date with a stew, you are following your dick around, nothing else matters.  Being aware of much of anything else around you just ain't happening.  Maybe Gregory was exaggerating his description of Cooper.  Maybe he thought Cooper must be an Errol Flynn type, he must look pretty good, or be better looking than he, Gregory, is -- that must be why she's paying more attention to him, Cooper, than me, Gregory, -- or so he thinks.  He'll exaggerate Cooper's appearance -- classier hair (french-style marcelled hair, not just straight black hair), classier suit (russet, not just black), and so on.   His perceptions will be affected.  Competition for a woman's attention can do that to a guy.  That's what can happen when the head down there, instead of the one up there, does most of the thinking.

Im smiling - laughing.  ;)  I think you hit the nail on the head - best statement of this ever. Oh to be young again!  :rofl:
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: 377 on November 29, 2017, 02:43:03 PM
Meyer nailed it. I am an airplane nut and pay a lot of attention to the technical details of jumpships I ride on. However When naked female skydivers are aboard, I have a hard time remembering what kind of plane I was riding in. Surely this phenomena has been studied by psychologists and cognitive scientists.  ;)

377
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on November 29, 2017, 03:26:50 PM
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Meyer nailed it. I am an airplane nut and pay a lot of attention to the technical details of jumpships I ride on. However When naked female skydivers are aboard, I have a hard time remembering what kind of plane I was riding in. Surely this phenomena has been studied by psychologists and cognitive scientists.  ;)

377

Could we keep the SEXUAL CONTENT off this page@!  If you and Bruce want to discuss naked female skydivers please take it somewhere else. It's purdy damned simple - cowboy.  :)

Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on November 29, 2017, 03:49:42 PM
What better place is there to talk about naked skydivers than "The DB Cooper Show" thread?
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Robert99 on November 29, 2017, 03:58:44 PM
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What better place is there to talk about naked skydivers than "The DB Cooper Show" thread?

Doesn't DropZone have a thread on this subject?
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Lynn on December 18, 2017, 04:51:52 AM
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Sure, you always have exceptions to the rule. I just don't believe a majority of them could be witnesses about a suspect in this case.I can believe some of it to a certain extent, but not when you don't have a reason to recall the event decades later. like, remembering someone throwing something away is one of them, or being chased out of a room remembering in detail what was going on.


Memory is why the camera and recording devices were invented! But, once again Cooper was a good psychologist - he took measures: plain dress, dark glasses, no interaction. A phantom in a seat. Gregory was probably remembered more by Cooper than Gregory remembered Cooper!

Elizabeth Loftus is perhaps the most highly consulted expert on the pitfalls of eyewitness testimony/memory, though there have been criticisms of her work. Of course, some people have better memories than others; and some people are better at noticing things in the first place. People also remember different things. I don't remember eye colour; I do remember hair colour but not style unless it's unusual. I rarely remember details of interior design. I will remember what kind of vocab someone used - even whole snatches of dialog - and what they sounded like. My husband was in FX makeup and will recognize a face under tons of makeup or years of natural aging - eyes first. But georger's right about DBC's sartorial choice. My clearest memory of the first time I was in Pearson Airport as a teen was how many "suits" there were. Blue was big that year, but lots of grey, brown, black, too. And I couldn't have told one person from another; it's like that scene in the Thomas Crown Affair remake where there's a hundred guys in bowler hats and the cops can't follow their man.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: titanium on January 05, 2018, 12:08:36 PM
Do we know if the photo was hanging on the wall circa 1968 or it was taken then and put on the wall much later?  Maybe it would not have been such a big secret that the stairs could be lowered.  Anyone who was in that office, such as contractors, sales people, managers, etc could have seen that photo and/or talked with someone knowledgeable about the 727.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on January 05, 2018, 02:20:48 PM
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What better place is there to talk about naked skydivers than "The DB Cooper Show" thread?

Doesn't DropZone have a thread on this subject?

There are rules for those who will follow rules and no rules for those who cannot or will not follow rules. 
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Robert99 on January 05, 2018, 02:46:38 PM
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Do we know if the photo was hanging on the wall circa 1968 or it was taken then and put on the wall much later?  Maybe it would not have been such a big secret that the stairs could be lowered.  Anyone who was in that office, such as contractors, sales people, managers, etc could have seen that photo and/or talked with someone knowledgeable about the 727.

What photograph and/or office are you talking about? ???
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: titanium on January 05, 2018, 11:35:59 PM
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Well I thought Josh and crew did a pretty good job! Congrats to everyone on this forum that had a chance to voice their ideas.

I have to get my ISP to upload the full list of particles because the Excel file is about 40 meg. There is a lot of searching to do in the particle list of this size. We hope this adds to the titanium find.

On another note one of the crew was searching google while we were filming and found a reference to the SST having the first ever CRT tube in the dashboard.  It would make sense that the chassis for that CRT might be out of titanium. Fertile ground.......

Tom Kaye


Do you think that someone who occasionally toured a factory that was making titanium parts could have got all of those metal particles on a tie or do you think it was someone who was in the factory daily?

For example, a factory manager/engineer vs a top level executive-type.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: titanium on January 05, 2018, 11:40:21 PM
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...Am I correct in assuming that Tom is the first to ever inspect that tie in a lab in 40+ years? Where was the FBI? How do you search for somebody if you don't even know what to search for? Whose on first?     



AMEN, Georger!!!

Right!  The FBI doesn't have access to an Electron microscope?
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: titanium on January 05, 2018, 11:44:34 PM
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Do we know if the photo was hanging on the wall circa 1968 or it was taken then and put on the wall much later?  Maybe it would not have been such a big secret that the stairs could be lowered.  Anyone who was in that office, such as contractors, sales people, managers, etc could have seen that photo and/or talked with someone knowledgeable about the 727.

What photograph and/or office are you talking about? ???
I can't find the message I thought I had replied to but I think Tom Kaye posted that he had received an email from someone that had worked at Boeing and they remember a photo on a hallway wall that showed an airdrop being done from a 727 in 1968.

I wasn't clear from the post if he was saying that the photo was actually on the wall in 1968 though.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on January 05, 2018, 11:49:57 PM
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...Am I correct in assuming that Tom is the first to ever inspect that tie in a lab in 40+ years? Where was the FBI? How do you search for somebody if you don't even know what to search for? Whose on first?     



AMEN, Georger!!!

Right!  The FBI doesn't have access to an Electron microscope?

You are posting over multiple threads on multiple topics - impossible to tie it all together or keep track of!

Yes. The FBI has an electron microscope. 

Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Unsurelock on January 06, 2018, 12:44:34 AM
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Interesting tidbit just came in. I thought you guys would like this info.

"I used to work for Boeing Flight test. In the hall ways of the 3-390 bldg there is a photo of a package drop test on a 727. Two men are seen pushing a package out the aft stair doors. This photo was taken in 1968. Every time I walked past it I couldnt help think that DB was part of that test team. Knowing that your looking for someone with exposure to the sonic program, flight test would be where I would start my search.  I cant find the photo right now but it gives credence to your theory. We all know they used the door in Laos but this test was prior to that time period.

Good Luck!
John
"

Here you go, Titanium.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on January 06, 2018, 04:27:35 AM
Sailshaw has talked about the 727 testing at Boeing's Moses Lake facility in the pre-Norjak period. He could be a source for you to pursue.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on January 06, 2018, 04:33:05 AM
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Yes. The FBI has an electron microscope.


Tom Kaye told me that the FBI got their first electron microscope in 1972. Then I asked him if he knew if, and to what degree, the Bureau had examined the tie - then or in the current era - and Tom said, "Oh give 'em a break." That ended the conversation.

So the bigger question still exists: what did the FBI do when Tom and the Citizen Sleuths found the titanium in circa 2009. Did they start digging into the Ti issue? Further, what was the FBI's response when the Travel Channel kicked in the bucks to find the 100,000 rare earth metals and other exotic particles in 2016?

I have been reluctant to ask Ayn Dietrich Williams because she has already stated that the Bureau has examined all known pieces of evidence, and I am too discouraged by her responses to indulge in another round of hyperbole. But I doubt the FBI ever dug into the tie and its particles. I know that people who have had regular contact with Norjak investigators, such as Galen, have never spoken about any FBI examination of the tie and the particles - other than DNA stuff.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on January 06, 2018, 01:13:08 PM
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Yes. The FBI has an electron microscope.


Tom Kaye told me that the FBI got their first electron microscope in 1972. Then I asked him if he knew if, and to what degree, the Bureau had examined the tie - then or in the current era - and Tom said, "Oh give 'em a break." That ended the conversation.

So the bigger question still exists: what did the FBI do when Tom and the Citizen Sleuths found the titanium in circa 2009. Did they start digging into the Ti issue? Further, what was the FBI's response when the Travel Channel kicked in the bucks to find the 100,000 rare earth metals and other exotic particles in 2016?

I have been reluctant to ask Ayn Dietrich Williams because she has already stated that the Bureau has examined all known pieces of evidence, and I am too discouraged by her responses to indulge in another round of hyperbole. But I doubt the FBI ever dug into the tie and its particles. I know that people who have had regular contact with Norjak investigators, such as Galen, have never spoken about any FBI examination of the tie and the particles - other than DNA stuff.
"Oh give 'em a break." That ended the conversation.

In addition to that - get your facts straight!

In the first place, asking when 'the FBI got their first electron microscope' is a little like asking when the Indians got their first horse! Never mind all of the accoutrements and historical realities of owning and riding horses or riding anything going back to the Stone Age!

It is like you calling me your "associate in DB Cooper investigation" on your website when in fact we are not! Get your facts straight! Stop living off of people.  :nono:
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on January 06, 2018, 05:12:41 PM
So, how would you like me to characterize you and our relationship when I am discussing our visits to Chibougamou, Quebec?

Also, you challenge me to get my facts straight. What facts did I get wrong? You didn't mention any in your diatribe.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on January 06, 2018, 05:17:05 PM
Update on Tom Colbert

Tom is pounding the pavement HARD on Rackstraw these days. I hear from a reporter that he is hounding the Oregonian to follow his investigation into Rackstraw, and KING 5-TV in Seattle posted a short blurb on Colbert and Rackstraw today:

http://www.king5.com/article/news/local/is-it-db-cooper-filmmakers-think-theyve-identified-infamous-hijacker/281-505367578

In the broadcast they state that Colbert has deciphered the numbers in a letter (Letter #5 presumably) and linked them to Rackstraw's unit in Vietnam.

However, KING 5 TV did not say what the exact link was, nor did they specify the numbers.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on January 06, 2018, 05:38:17 PM
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So, how would you like me to characterize you and our relationship when I am discussing our visits to Chibougamou, Quebec?

Also, you challenge me to get my facts straight. What facts did I get wrong? You didn't mention any in your diatribe.

Associate defined: a partner or colleague in business or at work. We are not colleagues in any sense. We are only here by accident and it sure as hell is not my choice!

our visits to Chibougamou ?  our visits to Earth? your visits to Earth vs my visits to Earth? Diatribe no. Just facts.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on January 06, 2018, 05:52:36 PM
I thought we were associated in the sense that we post here together, and have done so for many years. I think your definition of "associate" is a bit too strict and one-dimensional.

But, more to the point: how would you like me to describe you? If not "associate," then what?
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on January 08, 2018, 03:29:37 PM
What happened to the Tina Bar Money thread ? or am I going blind?
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: FLYJACK on April 13, 2018, 10:39:56 AM
Anybody have contact info for Josh Gates or Expedition Unknown people??

not Cooper related, but I have solved a puzzle he had in one of his shows


PM me...
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on April 13, 2018, 06:47:10 PM
Yup. PM sent.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Unsurelock on December 28, 2018, 09:37:45 AM
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I thought titanium was relatively expensive compared to other materials. And flammable above 600deg.  But likely it must have desirable characteristics for its application at that time.
Can someone explain why they'd use them in non essential parts like the lavoratory?

Old post to reply to, but...

Dice, aluminum will react easily with hydrochloric acid (puke). And since they gave out barf bags regularly, it stands to reason that they'd have to remodel the bathroom regularly if it was aluminum. The previous comments about the anti-corrosive properties of titanium are a probably spot-on, in my opinion.

I'm glad to have found this exchange. It's good to know that others have seen what I'm seeing.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on December 28, 2018, 03:12:08 PM
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I thought titanium was relatively expensive compared to other materials. And flammable above 600deg.  But likely it must have desirable characteristics for its application at that time.
Can someone explain why they'd use them in non essential parts like the lavoratory?

Old post to reply to, but...

Dice, aluminum will react easily with hydrochloric acid (puke). And since they gave out barf bags regularly, it stands to reason that they'd have to remodel the bathroom regularly if it was aluminum. The previous comments about the anti-corrosive properties of titanium are a probably spot-on, in my opinion.

I'm glad to have found this exchange. It's good to know that others have seen what I'm seeing.

Innuendo is not evidence. You still havent given evidence there were titanium particles in the plane lav, or any other particles on Kaye's list, or that Cooper or anyone else picked up particles in the plane lav ... etc etc etc. At best its a hypothesis, not even a theory.

What strikes me about the whole particle list discussion to date, is there has been no attempt to organise all of these particles into classes that has any meaning. Some people talk about smoking related particles, rare earth particles, etc. There is no class reduction list of this nature on Tom's site or anywhere else? Rare particles are getting all of the attention so far. In all of these thousands of particles there evidently is only one spore which turned out to have no value in nailing down location ... it's like trying to make sense of a basketball game with ten thousand players on the court.  :rofl:   
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Unsurelock on April 01, 2019, 12:35:59 PM
Just saw Bruce sightseeing in Amboy on Episode 2 of Mission Declassified. Seems pretty standard and tame a production so far. Guy seems to be certain the Amboy chute was a decoy buried by Cooper. Liked how he demonstrated with timed jumps that hitting a chosen spot on the ground was impossible. Yet another show where an expert says Reno was a better spot and instantly the fast, encouraging, upbeat soundtrack kicks in, indicating the host is onto something. So far it's a generous C-.

**Update:  Ah, it was McCoy jumping in Reno with the Money laundering in Vegas. I was convinced he did it in the lounge with the candlestick.

Perhaps I am being unfair, but aside from the two jumps 30 seconds apart to demonstrate how far off an error in timing would take you, this had nothing new or exciting in it. He ended with facial recognition software that matched McCoy to the Bing Crosby sketch only and called it "massive."
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on April 01, 2019, 03:30:32 PM
Sigh...
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on April 01, 2019, 03:37:58 PM
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Sigh...

The show must go on!

It's the show, and the show, and the show - to quote Gen. MacArthur.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: EVickiW on April 01, 2019, 04:28:47 PM
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Just saw Bruce sightseeing in Amboy on Episode 2 of Mission Declassified. Seems pretty standard and tame a production so far. .....................

On to the next Cooper production!  Back in February, I even got to swim with the "fishes"! 
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: EU on April 01, 2019, 04:47:27 PM
Look at that...the Mayor of Cooperville getting all famous.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on April 01, 2019, 11:43:36 PM
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Just saw Bruce sightseeing in Amboy on Episode 2 of Mission Declassified. Seems pretty standard and tame a production so far. .....................

On to the next Cooper production!  Back in February, I even got to swim with the "fishes"!

Must have been "Ice Fishing," so to speak. Anna Stephens and her camera guy stopped by my place too, shortly afterwards. Thanks for the pix.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: MEYDC on April 03, 2019, 11:26:58 PM
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Just saw Bruce sightseeing in Amboy on Episode 2 of Mission Declassified. Seems pretty standard and tame a production so far. Guy seems to be certain the Amboy chute was a decoy buried by Cooper. Liked how he demonstrated with timed jumps that hitting a chosen spot on the ground was impossible. Yet another show where an expert says Reno was a better spot and instantly the fast, encouraging, upbeat soundtrack kicks in, indicating the host is onto something. So far it's a generous C-.

**Update:  Ah, it was McCoy jumping in Reno with the Money laundering in Vegas. I was convinced he did it in the lounge with the candlestick.

Perhaps I am being unfair, but aside from the two jumps 30 seconds apart to demonstrate how far off an error in timing would take you, this had nothing new or exciting in it. He ended with facial recognition software that matched McCoy to the Bing Crosby sketch only and called it "massive."
The one thing that surprised me is that he said that some passengers recognized McCoy as Cooper but the stewardesses didn't or something like. I thought that the reason for him being eliminated was because nobody recognized him. Also 1 flaw with the 98% match with facial recognition is that that implies that the sketch is 100 % accurate.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on April 04, 2019, 03:49:32 AM
I haven't seen the TC Mission Declassified episode, yet, but it does seems heavy on McCoy and all the info that came out of the FBI's Salt Lake City Division and Russ Calame. I heard the rumors that some passengers thought McCoy was Cooper, but I haven't seen any corroboration, nor names to follow up with.

Supposedly Karga 7, which produced the show, is sending me a DVD with the episode on it, and I plan on following up with the producers on what and why they did what they did with DBC.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: EU on April 04, 2019, 06:30:48 AM
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I haven't seen the TC Mission Declassified episode, yet, but it does seems heavy on McCoy and all the info that came out of the FBI's Salt Lake City Division and Russ Calame. I heard the rumors that some passengers thought McCoy was Cooper, but I haven't seen any corroboration, nor names to follow up with.

Supposedly Karga 7, which produced the show, is sending me a DVD with the episode on it, and I plan on following up with the producers on what and why they did what they did with DBC.

A couple of things:

First, you can watch the episode for FREE on the Travel Channel's website.

Second, I wouldn't get too worked up over the show. The host does settle on McCoy over the course of a "few hours" of investigating FBI files because he's looking for someone who would launder the cash through Vegas.

Obviously, for those who are serious investigators we immediately recognize the "flaws" in the show. That said, it's for entertainment. Even though it's a documentary it's not really meant to be a "serious" presentation. This is simply an episode, and crafting something that has some sizzle and builds up drama is what they're out to create.

It would be nice to see a serious documentary series about the case presented somewhere. To that end, I have reached out to a couple of production companies and am pushing just such an effort (not suspect specific). Needless to say, I'll let you know if something develops.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on April 04, 2019, 12:19:09 PM
Thanks, EU. Off to the TC, I suppose - the episode was there right under my nose, eh?

Yes, your idea of a real docu on Cooper is needed and essential. I champion that notion completely.

Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: andrade1812 on April 04, 2019, 02:41:22 PM
So what can be done with the AI Photo Analysis results from the Declassified show? It seems like this sort of photo-matching analysis is done all the time on these kinds of shows, and never actually results in anything but a good TV moment. We're now at the point where a computer programmer can create a result that can't be challenged since we don't have any idea how the computer came to the conclusions it came to. It's very frustrating since anyone looking at the Cooper sketches and a photo of McCoy can tell they are very different.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: EU on April 04, 2019, 03:00:54 PM
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So what can be done with the AI Photo Analysis results from the Declassified show? It seems like this sort of photo-matching analysis is done all the time on these kinds of shows, and never actually results in anything but a good TV moment. We're now at the point where a computer programmer can create a result that can't be challenged since we don't have any idea how the computer came to the conclusions it came to. It's very frustrating since anyone looking at the Cooper sketches and a photo of McCoy can tell they are very different.

It is amazing how some people treat the sketches (plural) as photographs. By definition a sketch is not real.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on April 04, 2019, 04:12:10 PM
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So what can be done with the AI Photo Analysis results from the Declassified show? It seems like this sort of photo-matching analysis is done all the time on these kinds of shows, and never actually results in anything but a good TV moment. We're now at the point where a computer programmer can create a result that can't be challenged since we don't have any idea how the computer came to the conclusions it came to. It's very frustrating since anyone looking at the Cooper sketches and a photo of McCoy can tell they are very different.

It is amazing how some people treat the sketches (plural) as photographs. By definition a sketch is not real.


They did the samething with Duane Weber...
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Lynn on June 30, 2019, 08:08:19 PM
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So what can be done with the AI Photo Analysis results from the Declassified show? It seems like this sort of photo-matching analysis is done all the time on these kinds of shows, and never actually results in anything but a good TV moment. We're now at the point where a computer programmer can create a result that can't be challenged since we don't have any idea how the computer came to the conclusions it came to. It's very frustrating since anyone looking at the Cooper sketches and a photo of McCoy can tell they are very different.

It is amazing how some people treat the sketches (plural) as photographs. By definition a sketch is not real.


They did the samething with Duane Weber...
OMG the Duane Weber sketch thing was greasy. How many years after the hijacking? And based mainly on Flo's description, which even back in the day was subject to change here and there. Reading her versions of events always causes a lot of re-reading - trying to pin down exactly when and how many times he donned the glasses, for example. It's been a while but I seem to remember there being two Flo versions of that in 1971. The eye colour is listed as brown solely on Flo's description, and was modified later to "possibly brown", so she wasn't that sure. She also came across as the witness most affected by the stress of the situation - Tina spent more time with Cooper and seems to have kept a cooler head. And Bill Mitchell didn't know he was looking at a hijacker. I tend to put the most weight on Tina and Bill's descriptions, along with Nancy House's description of the white bag (also mentioned by Bill). That description was very detailed, and she freely admitted she could not definitely describe the man himself, so there's a ring of conscientious honesty to her description. The later "Weber" sketch looks so unlike any of the other sketches, it's laughable. Can't take it seriously.
Title: Re: EXPEDITION UNKNOWN FOLLOW UP - LATE OCTOBER 2019
Post by: supercooper76 on September 26, 2019, 02:21:12 PM
Hello Cooperites,

Greeting from the EXU team! We are returning to the PNW and are throwing out a wide net. We would love to hear about any new leads you are pursuing that involve an active investigation in the field. We want to work WITH you and are willing to go where ever the leads take us.

Please email us at : researchingdancooper@gmail.com

Title: Re: EXPEDITION UNKNOWN FOLLOW UP - LATE OCTOBER 2019
Post by: Shutter on September 26, 2019, 02:57:42 PM
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Hello Cooperites,

Greeting from the EXU team! We are returning to the PNW and are throwing out a wide net. We would love to hear about any new leads you are pursuing that involve an active investigation in the field. We want to work WITH you and are willing to go where ever the leads take us.

Please email us at : researchingdancooper@gmail.com


Hello,
Not a whole lot surrounding anything new. some evidence surrounding the flight path has always been of interest to the community. several believe the flight path is much different from what was concluded. getting to the bottom of the Amboy chute has also raised questions over the years. then questions surrounding the placard found years later believed to have been from flight 305...
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on September 26, 2019, 03:49:19 PM
According to a person I spoke with in connection to the above read that the Amboy chute was from a controlled burn in the area where the chute was found. I've never read anything about that?
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on September 29, 2019, 03:46:56 AM
For the sake of clarification, the "EXU" cited a couple of posts above is Expedition Unknown, I believe. They did a DB Cooper episode a few years ago that explored the western flight path and the theories put forward by Robert99. I was part of that shoot, along with Meyer Louie and Robert99.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Robert99 on September 29, 2019, 12:39:15 PM
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For the sake of clarification, the "EXU" cited a couple of posts above is Expedition Unknown, I believe. They did a DB Cooper episode a few years ago that explored the western flight path and the theories put forward by Robert99. I was part of that shoot, along with Meyer Louie and Robert99.

Bruce, as you well know, the "exploration" of "the western flight path and the theories put forward by Robert99" were a trivial part of that program.  It actually went with a Cooper jump near Reno, NV.

By the way, what was your involvement with that program?  And why wasn't Shutter in that program?
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on September 29, 2019, 01:00:44 PM
The show basically surrounded Tina Bar and had Bruce, R99 and Meyer searching the area with metal detectors and the western flight path was brought up. Tom Kaye was also on the show and they paid for the expensive testing that exposed the rare earth elements.

I was slated to fly out to California after months of trying to figure out how the segment surrounding the simulation of the flight path was going to be presented. first it was discussed coming to my home. then we were going to utilize a flight simulator in Sanford Florida. that failed for several reasons. the owner never really liked the idea and the simulator didn't have a night flight in the software. it was decided to use a flight simulator in California that I wasn't completely on board with due to it being a 737 simulator but did finally agree. everything was set and just days to my leaving for California was sent an email that the segment was bumped. this was because Josh wanted to do a tandem jump along with the theory of Cooper jumping in Reno...so, to answer the question of my being on the show, no, but spent months in the background with phone calls and emails putting the segment together.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Robert99 on September 29, 2019, 02:30:22 PM
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The show basically surrounded Tina Bar and had Bruce, R99 and Meyer searching the area with metal detectors and the western flight path was brought up. Tom Kaye was also on the show and they paid for the expensive testing that exposed the rare earth elements.

I was slated to fly out to California after months of trying to figure out how the segment surrounding the simulation of the flight path was going to be presented. first it was discussed coming to my home. then we were going to utilize a flight simulator in Sanford Florida. that failed for several reasons. the owner never really liked the idea and the simulator didn't have a night flight in the software. it was decided to use a flight simulator in California that I wasn't completely on board with due to it being a 737 simulator but did finally agree. everything was set and just days to my leaving for California was sent an email that the segment was bumped. this was because Josh wanted to do a tandem jump along with the theory of Cooper jumping in Reno...so, to answer the question of my being on the show, no, but spent months in the background with phone calls and emails putting the segment together.

I knew that but I'll bet Bruce didn't.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on September 29, 2019, 05:19:12 PM
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For the sake of clarification, the "EXU" cited a couple of posts above is Expedition Unknown, I believe. They did a DB Cooper episode a few years ago that explored the western flight path and the theories put forward by Robert99. I was part of that shoot, along with Meyer Louie and Robert99.

Bruce, as you well know, the "exploration" of "the western flight path and the theories put forward by Robert99" were a trivial part of that program.  It actually went with a Cooper jump near Reno, NV.

By the way, what was your involvement with that program?  And why wasn't Shutter in that program?

Tell the whole story!  :rofl:

 It actually went with a Cooper jump near Reno, NV.  .... with acceptance of the FBI V23 flight path. That remained in tact and unchallenged, even by you mysteriously. You stood there at Tina Bar with Meyer and didn't say one word about a west path over Tina Bar. And Gates didn't bring it up either even though he was aware. Why not?

The greatest contribution of the program was to get an expanded analysis of Tom's particles through McCrone. Josh Gates programs are always heavy on forensics. Gates is a forensic archaeologist.

In fact, he always looks at the major theories going in each case he examines. He evidently didn't think your west path theory qualified to even mention.   

Who knows! Maybe Derek will pretend to be you and the West Path Theory next at Dropzone ?
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Robert99 on September 29, 2019, 07:20:16 PM
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For the sake of clarification, the "EXU" cited a couple of posts above is Expedition Unknown, I believe. They did a DB Cooper episode a few years ago that explored the western flight path and the theories put forward by Robert99. I was part of that shoot, along with Meyer Louie and Robert99.

Bruce, as you well know, the "exploration" of "the western flight path and the theories put forward by Robert99" were a trivial part of that program.  It actually went with a Cooper jump near Reno, NV.

By the way, what was your involvement with that program?  And why wasn't Shutter in that program?

Tell the whole story!  :rofl:

 It actually went with a Cooper jump near Reno, NV.  .... with acceptance of the FBI V23 flight path. That remained in tact and unchallenged, even by you mysteriously. You stood there at Tina Bar with Meyer and didn't say one word about a west path over Tina Bar. And Gates didn't bring it up either even though he was aware. Why not?

The greatest contribution of the program was to get an expanded analysis of Tom's particles through McCrone. Josh Gates programs are always heavy on forensics. Gates is a forensic archaeologist.

In fact, he always looks at the major theories going in each case he examines. He evidently didn't think your west path theory qualified to even mention.   

Who knows! Maybe Derek will pretend to be you and the West Path Theory next at Dropzone ?

Georger, you don't know what happened at Tina Bar during that filming.  And your claims are nonsense.  The bypass on the west side of Portland was briefly discussed and filmed.  I frankly don't remember any other flight path being discussed or filmed that day or even discussed in the TV broadcast.

Expedition Unknown has several additional hours of film that were made at Tina Bar that day and not aired.  There were two cameramen plus a drone operator.  And they undoubtedly have additional unaired footage from other locations they visited for the program.

I had suggested that Gates do a tandem jump or a vertical wind tunnel segment in the Los Angeles area.  But they went with the Reno segment.

After the program was aired, I e-mailed Amanda Marks that I enjoyed the program (viewing it as an entertainment program) and thanked her for their support of Tom Kaye's work.

And you may remember that Amanda also posted that if you didn't like the program to blame it on the network.

I did not have any intention of being on camera in the first place.  But Amanda "commanded" me to do so (there is a longer story about that) and she wouldn't take "no" for an answer.

Also, you e-mailed me about the probability of Cooper jumping at Reno.  And I replied to your e-mail with my frank assessment of that probability.  Do you remember what I wrote?

With all due respect to Gates and others, would you be kind enough to inform me of the connection between "forensic archaeology" and aircraft navigation, aircraft performance, the aerodynamics of falling bodies, weather effects on all of the above, etc., etc..?

Further, I am still waiting for your "experts" to post their work which you claim that will prove that Eric Ulis and I are full of bleep about the western bypass of Portland.  And where is the sensational news that you promised a few days ago?
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on September 29, 2019, 08:23:58 PM
Okay, both sides have spoken about this. the show aired long ago. lets not allow the bickering to occur here like it has on the DZ. I take some blame in that as well but my defense was getting the thread back on track. producers are here looking for new things surrounding the case. they left a contact email that anyone can utilize to discuss anything they feel should be discussed with them for any type of up and coming show about Cooper. we are here for answers, right?
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Shutter on September 30, 2019, 06:17:42 PM
Comments have been removed. I asked once to let it go....not asking again.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on September 30, 2019, 11:51:47 PM
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Comments have been removed. I asked once to let it go....not asking again.

Thanks. There are legitimate issue at stake - flight path issues, but I will move this over to the Flight Path thread where it belongs .......... not tonight, it can wait, maybe tomorrow .....  we are still struggling here with water issues ... had roofers here today and they got right to work (very smart experienced guys! They think they spotted the problems and took immediate action ... cant thank them enough!!!!!) We will know shortly more raining coming tonight, all day tomorrow, all day Wednesday .... talked to Dorwin over the weekend and he reports wheat rotting in the fields where he is in Montana! Maybe its time to build an arc ?

In any event.   
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on October 03, 2019, 04:18:27 AM
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The show basically surrounded Tina Bar and had Bruce, R99 and Meyer searching the area with metal detectors and the western flight path was brought up. Tom Kaye was also on the show and they paid for the expensive testing that exposed the rare earth elements.

I was slated to fly out to California after months of trying to figure out how the segment surrounding the simulation of the flight path was going to be presented. first it was discussed coming to my home. then we were going to utilize a flight simulator in Sanford Florida. that failed for several reasons. the owner never really liked the idea and the simulator didn't have a night flight in the software. it was decided to use a flight simulator in California that I wasn't completely on board with due to it being a 737 simulator but did finally agree. everything was set and just days to my leaving for California was sent an email that the segment was bumped. this was because Josh wanted to do a tandem jump along with the theory of Cooper jumping in Reno...so, to answer the question of my being on the show, no, but spent months in the background with phone calls and emails putting the segment together.

I knew that but I'll bet Bruce didn't.

How much ya wanna bet?
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on October 03, 2019, 04:21:43 AM
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Comments have been removed. I asked once to let it go....not asking again.

Thanks. There are legitimate issue at stake - flight path issues, but I will move this over to the Flight Path thread where it belongs .......... not tonight, it can wait, maybe tomorrow .....  we are still struggling here with water issues ... had roofers here today and they got right to work (very smart experienced guys! They think they spotted the problems and took immediate action ... cant thank them enough!!!!!) We will know shortly more raining coming tonight, all day tomorrow, all day Wednesday .... talked to Dorwin over the weekend and he reports wheat rotting in the fields where he is in Montana! Maybe its time to build an arc ?

In any event.

Poor Dorwin. He probably had a bunch of snow.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on October 03, 2019, 05:26:03 AM
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Comments have been removed. I asked once to let it go....not asking again.

Thanks. There are legitimate issue at stake - flight path issues, but I will move this over to the Flight Path thread where it belongs .......... not tonight, it can wait, maybe tomorrow .....  we are still struggling here with water issues ... had roofers here today and they got right to work (very smart experienced guys! They think they spotted the problems and took immediate action ... cant thank them enough!!!!!) We will know shortly more raining coming tonight, all day tomorrow, all day Wednesday .... talked to Dorwin over the weekend and he reports wheat rotting in the fields where he is in Montana! Maybe its time to build an arc ?

In any event.

Poor Dorwin. He probably had a bunch of snow.

yes he did - we talked about roof work -
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on October 03, 2019, 06:08:43 PM
Yikes.
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: georger on October 03, 2019, 11:36:16 PM
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Yikes.

he said down in the flatlands wheat was rotting in water - nothing anyone could do about it - just makes you sick!
Title: Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on October 04, 2019, 09:45:56 AM
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Yikes.

he said down in the flatlands wheat was rotting in water - nothing anyone could do about it - just makes you sick!

Yup. It appears that climate change manifests in many different ways.