Author Topic: Missing Persons (Melvin Wilson)  (Read 16985 times)

Offline EVickiW

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Re: Missing Persons (Melvin Wilson)
« Reply #15 on: October 08, 2014, 01:42:54 PM »
Quote

I am not going by the sketch....it is a sketch. I am going by the physical description that was given by the flight attendants and William Mitchell (especially the turkey gobble comment). This includes the hair color and style, ruddy complexion , age, weight, height, clothing choice and his demeanor. It is worth a look. They have taken more time on suspects that do not match the physical description. The mug shot of Mel was taken in April 20, 1971. Five months prior to his disappearance and seven months prior to the hi-jacking. 

I see at the DZ that the DNA comparison of KC with Seattle FBI (their invitation to submit the new report and DNA results to the FBI) was edited out of the last post.

Several agents are on record as saying the original sketch, singular, did not fit the witness description of Cooper. So you may be right. I don't know. I can't know, actually. Carr never resolved any of this to anyone's satisfaction. Then Gray and Mitchell come along and significantly change the description as judged by say the 2nd sketch. Everyone seems to be going by different standards -

As for Blevins, I don't believe anything he says. And I don't believe half of what I say either!   :) 

 
[/quote]

Hmmmnnn....speaking of Gray...would you call the suit in Melvin's mugshot.....russet? 

You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.
 

Robert99

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Re: Missing Persons (Melvin Wilson)
« Reply #16 on: October 08, 2014, 02:18:21 PM »
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Georger asks:

Hmmmnnn....speaking of Gray...would you call the suit in Melvin's mugshot.....russet?

In the 1960s, some of the materials used in men's suits could appear to be different colors, and even patterns, depending on the lighting conditions under which the suit was viewed.  Under bright sunlight conditions, the material could appear to be one color and pattern and indoors, under artificial lighting conditions, the color and pattern could appear different.

So don't bet the farm on how a suit could and would be described under different conditions. 
« Last Edit: October 08, 2014, 03:03:26 PM by Robert99 »
 

georger

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Re: Missing Persons (Melvin Wilson)
« Reply #17 on: October 08, 2014, 02:31:48 PM »
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Quote

I am not going by the sketch....it is a sketch. I am going by the physical description that was given by the flight attendants and William Mitchell (especially the turkey gobble comment). This includes the hair color and style, ruddy complexion , age, weight, height, clothing choice and his demeanor. It is worth a look. They have taken more time on suspects that do not match the physical description. The mug shot of Mel was taken in April 20, 1971. Five months prior to his disappearance and seven months prior to the hi-jacking. 

I see at the DZ that the DNA comparison of KC with Seattle FBI (their invitation to submit the new report and DNA results to the FBI) was edited out of the last post.

Several agents are on record as saying the original sketch, singular, did not fit the witness description of Cooper. So you may be right. I don't know. I can't know, actually. Carr never resolved any of this to anyone's satisfaction. Then Gray and Mitchell come along and significantly change the description as judged by say the 2nd sketch. Everyone seems to be going by different standards -

As for Blevins, I don't believe anything he says. And I don't believe half of what I say either!   :) 

 

Hmmmnnn....speaking of Gray...would you call the suit in Melvin's mugshot.....russet?
[/quote]

well it does have a reddish cast, but all of those old Panchromatic color film photos had a skewed color ratio. Either reddened, yellowed, but seldom bluish due to the spectral sensitivity of the film. Neither Tina or Schaffner reported russet while apparently Mitchell did? You've seen Gray's photo and his version of russet (as in russet potato).

How about the particles found on Cooper's tie? Titanium and that coiled metal shaving (a lathe shaving or an engraving shaving?). Particles associated with the printing-engraving industry? The yellow pigment found? Food for thought.

If Eng is going to look at Blevins' Lyle dna you would think he would also be open to looking at yours especially if you can link Tom's elements and particles to the forgery printing environment - that is a very specific shop environment with definite by products and contaminates for anyone engaged in that activity .   

 
« Last Edit: October 08, 2014, 02:53:12 PM by georger »
 

Offline EVickiW

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Re: Missing Persons (Melvin Wilson)
« Reply #18 on: October 08, 2014, 03:03:29 PM »
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Quote

I am not going by the sketch....it is a sketch. I am going by the physical description that was given by the flight attendants and William Mitchell (especially the turkey gobble comment). This includes the hair color and style, ruddy complexion , age, weight, height, clothing choice and his demeanor. It is worth a look. They have taken more time on suspects that do not match the physical description. The mug shot of Mel was taken in April 20, 1971. Five months prior to his disappearance and seven months prior to the hi-jacking. 

I see at the DZ that the DNA comparison of KC with Seattle FBI (their invitation to submit the new report and DNA results to the FBI) was edited out of the last post.

Several agents are on record as saying the original sketch, singular, did not fit the witness description of Cooper. So you may be right. I don't know. I can't know, actually. Carr never resolved any of this to anyone's satisfaction. Then Gray and Mitchell come along and significantly change the description as judged by say the 2nd sketch. Everyone seems to be going by different standards -

As for Blevins, I don't believe anything he says. And I don't believe half of what I say either!   :) 

 

Hmmmnnn....speaking of Gray...would you call the suit in Melvin's mugshot.....russet?

Quote
well it does have a reddish cast, but all of those old Panchromatic color film photos had a skewed color ratio. Either reddened, yellowed, but seldom bluish due to the spectral sensitivity of the film. Neither Tina or Schaffner reported russet while apparently Mitchell did? You've seen Gray's photo and his version of russet (as in russet potato).

How about the particles found on Cooper's tie? Titanium and that coiled metal shaving (a lathe shaving or an engraving shaving?). Particles associated with the printing-engraving industry? The yellow pigment found? Food for thought.

If Eng is going to look at Blevins' Lyle dna you would think he would also be open to looking at yours especially if you can link Tom's elements and particles to the forgery printing environment - that is a very specific shop environment with definite by products and contaminates for anyone engaged in that activity .

The printing press my father used was an offset press. He engraved his own plates. I do not know where the plates came from or their composition. I tried to get information from the Secret Service, however the case is still open (but not being investigated) and I cannot get FOIA information until 2027.

« Last Edit: October 08, 2014, 03:51:25 PM by EVickiW »
You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.
 

georger

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Re: Missing Persons (Melvin Wilson)
« Reply #19 on: October 08, 2014, 03:41:58 PM »
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Quote

I am not going by the sketch....it is a sketch. I am going by the physical description that was given by the flight attendants and William Mitchell (especially the turkey gobble comment). This includes the hair color and style, ruddy complexion , age, weight, height, clothing choice and his demeanor. It is worth a look. They have taken more time on suspects that do not match the physical description. The mug shot of Mel was taken in April 20, 1971. Five months prior to his disappearance and seven months prior to the hi-jacking. 

I see at the DZ that the DNA comparison of KC with Seattle FBI (their invitation to submit the new report and DNA results to the FBI) was edited out of the last post.

Several agents are on record as saying the original sketch, singular, did not fit the witness description of Cooper. So you may be right. I don't know. I can't know, actually. Carr never resolved any of this to anyone's satisfaction. Then Gray and Mitchell come along and significantly change the description as judged by say the 2nd sketch. Everyone seems to be going by different standards -

As for Blevins, I don't believe anything he says. And I don't believe half of what I say either!   :) 

 

Hmmmnnn....speaking of Gray...would you call the suit in Melvin's mugshot.....russet?

well it does have a reddish cast, but all of those old Panchromatic color film photos had a skewed color ratio. Either reddened, yellowed, but seldom bluish due to the spectral sensitivity of the film. Neither Tina or Schaffner reported russet while apparently Mitchell did? You've seen Gray's photo and his version of russet (as in russet potato).

How about the particles found on Cooper's tie? Titanium and that coiled metal shaving (a lathe shaving or an engraving shaving?). Particles associated with the printing-engraving industry? The yellow pigment found? Food for thought.

If Eng is going to look at Blevins' Lyle dna you would think he would also be open to looking at yours especially if you can link Tom's elements and particles to the forgery printing environment - that is a very specific shop environment with definite by products and contaminates for anyone engaged in that activity .

The printing press my father used was an offset press. He engraved his own plates. I do not know where the plates came from or their composition. I tried to get information from the Secret Service, however the case is still open (but not being investigated) and I cannot get FOIA information until 2027.
[/quote]

Well, it's a complete wild shot but, those particles, pigment, etc just might be compatible with a shop a counterfeiter, printer, might have. Email Tom and ask him what he thinks. I have no idea if the spores and other biologicals would connect with the So-West, but ask him about that. I dont know if Titanium could be used in printing plates but I assume it can - I know it can be engraved and I know that one of the problems forgers have is plates wearing out so they sometimes prefer metals that will last over many printings, resist wear, and a single durable plate is preferred over multiple plates that have inconsistencies between them. You need to talk to somebody in the forensics section of the US Treasury Dept. They might see an immediate connection between items on Tom's particle wheel (list) and a counterfeiter's shop. ........... it's a long shot but worth pursuing imho.

To date Tom has been looking at rare metal facilities. I'm not sure if he ever considered a counterfeiter's shop or the printing trade - he may have considered that but it's worth asking him.  Tom can talk to Allen. Allen might have an opinion.

PM me and I will dig out several numbers you can try - if you want.
 
« Last Edit: October 08, 2014, 03:42:58 PM by georger »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Missing Persons (Melvin Wilson)
« Reply #20 on: October 08, 2014, 07:25:35 PM »
Counterfeiting Money

Before reading this article on Counterfeiting Money, it would be a very good idea to get a book on photo offset printing, for this is the method used in counterfeiting US currency. If you are familiar with this method of printing, counterfeiting should be a simple task for you.

Genuine currency is made by a process called “gravure”, which involves etching a metal block. Since etching a metal block is impossible to do by hand, photo offset printing comes into the process.

Photo offset printing starts by making negatives of the currency with a camera, and putting the negatives on a piece of masking material (usually orange in color). The stripped negatives, commonly called “flats”, are then exposed to a lithographic plate with an arc light plate maker. The burned plates are then developed with the proper developing chemical. One at a time, these plates are wrapped around the plate cylinder of the press.

The press to use should be an 11 by 14 offset, such as the AB Dick 360. Make 2 negatives of the portrait side of the bill, and 1 of the back side. After developing them and letting them dry, take them to a light table. Using opaque on one of the portrait sides, touch out all the green, which is the seal and the serial numbers.

The back side does not require any retouching, because it is all one color. Now, make sure all of the negatives are registered (lined up correctly) on the flats. By the way, every time you need another serial number, shoot 1 negative of the portrait side, cut out the serial number, and remove the old serial number from the flat replacing it with the new one.

Now you have all 3 flats, and each represents a different color: black, and 2 shades of green (the two shades of green are created by mixing inks). Now you are ready to burn the plates. Take a lithographic plate and etch three marks on it.

These marks must be 2 and 9/16 inches apart, starting on one of the short edges. Do the same thing to 2 more plates. Then, take 1 of the flats and place it on the plate, exactly lining the short edge up with the edge of the plate.

Burn it, move it up to the next mark, and cover up the exposed area you have already burned. Burn that, and do the same thing 2 more times, moving the flat up one more mark. Do the same process with the other 2 flats (each on a separate plate). Develop all three plates. You should now have 4 images on each plate with an equal space between each bill.

The paper you will need for Counterfeiting Money will not match exactly, but it will do for most situations. The paper to use should have a 25% rag content. By the way, Disaperf computer paper (invisible perforation) does the job well.

Take the paper and load it into the press. Be sure to set the air, buckle, and paper thickness right. Start with the black plate (the plate without the serial numbers). Wrap it around the cylinder and load black ink in. Make sure you run more than you need because there will be a lot of rejects. Then, while that is printing, mix the inks for the serial numbers and the back side. You will need to add some white and maybe yellow to the serial number ink. You also need to add black to the back side. Experiment until you get it right. Now, clean the press and print the other side. You will now have a bill with no green seal or serial numbers. Print a few with one serial number, make another and repeat. Keep doing this until you have as many different numbers as you want. Then cut the bills to the exact size with a paper cutter. You should have printed a large amount of money by now, but there is still one problem; the paper is pure white. To dye it, mix the following in a pan: 2 cups of hot water, 4 tea bags, and about 16 to 20 drops of green food coloring (experiment with this). Dip one of the bills in and compare it to a genuine US bill. Make the necessary adjustments, and dye all the bills. Also, it is a good idea to make them look used. For example, wrinkle them, rub coffee grinds on them, etc.

As before mentioned, unless you are familiar with photo offset printing, most of the information in this article will be fairly hard to understand. Along with getting a book on photo offset printing, try to see the movie “To Live and Die in LA”. It is about a counterfeiter, and the producer does a pretty good job of showing how to counterfeit. A good book on the subject is “The Poor Man’s James Bond”.

If all of this seems too complicated to you, there is one other method available for counterfeiting: The Canon color laser copier. The Canon can replicate ANYTHING in vibrant color, including US currency. But, once again, the main problem in counterfeiting is the paper used. So, experiment Counterfeiting Money, and good luck!
 

georger

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Re: Missing Persons (Melvin Wilson)
« Reply #21 on: October 08, 2014, 11:59:56 PM »
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Counterfeiting Money

Before reading this article on Counterfeiting Money, it would be a very good idea to get a book on photo offset printing, for this is the method used in counterfeiting US currency. If you are familiar with this method of printing, counterfeiting should be a simple task for you.

Genuine currency is made by a process called “gravure”, which involves etching a metal block. Since etching a metal block is impossible to do by hand, photo offset printing comes into the process.

Photo offset printing starts by making negatives of the currency with a camera, and putting the negatives on a piece of masking material (usually orange in color). The stripped negatives, commonly called “flats”, are then exposed to a lithographic plate with an arc light plate maker. The burned plates are then developed with the proper developing chemical. One at a time, these plates are wrapped around the plate cylinder of the press.

The press to use should be an 11 by 14 offset, such as the AB Dick 360. Make 2 negatives of the portrait side of the bill, and 1 of the back side. After developing them and letting them dry, take them to a light table. Using opaque on one of the portrait sides, touch out all the green, which is the seal and the serial numbers.

The back side does not require any retouching, because it is all one color. Now, make sure all of the negatives are registered (lined up correctly) on the flats. By the way, every time you need another serial number, shoot 1 negative of the portrait side, cut out the serial number, and remove the old serial number from the flat replacing it with the new one.

Now you have all 3 flats, and each represents a different color: black, and 2 shades of green (the two shades of green are created by mixing inks). Now you are ready to burn the plates. Take a lithographic plate and etch three marks on it.

These marks must be 2 and 9/16 inches apart, starting on one of the short edges. Do the same thing to 2 more plates. Then, take 1 of the flats and place it on the plate, exactly lining the short edge up with the edge of the plate.

Burn it, move it up to the next mark, and cover up the exposed area you have already burned. Burn that, and do the same thing 2 more times, moving the flat up one more mark. Do the same process with the other 2 flats (each on a separate plate). Develop all three plates. You should now have 4 images on each plate with an equal space between each bill.

The paper you will need for Counterfeiting Money will not match exactly, but it will do for most situations. The paper to use should have a 25% rag content. By the way, Disaperf computer paper (invisible perforation) does the job well.

Take the paper and load it into the press. Be sure to set the air, buckle, and paper thickness right. Start with the black plate (the plate without the serial numbers). Wrap it around the cylinder and load black ink in. Make sure you run more than you need because there will be a lot of rejects. Then, while that is printing, mix the inks for the serial numbers and the back side. You will need to add some white and maybe yellow to the serial number ink. You also need to add black to the back side. Experiment until you get it right. Now, clean the press and print the other side. You will now have a bill with no green seal or serial numbers. Print a few with one serial number, make another and repeat. Keep doing this until you have as many different numbers as you want. Then cut the bills to the exact size with a paper cutter. You should have printed a large amount of money by now, but there is still one problem; the paper is pure white. To dye it, mix the following in a pan: 2 cups of hot water, 4 tea bags, and about 16 to 20 drops of green food coloring (experiment with this). Dip one of the bills in and compare it to a genuine US bill. Make the necessary adjustments, and dye all the bills. Also, it is a good idea to make them look used. For example, wrinkle them, rub coffee grinds on them, etc.

As before mentioned, unless you are familiar with photo offset printing, most of the information in this article will be fairly hard to understand. Along with getting a book on photo offset printing, try to see the movie “To Live and Die in LA”. It is about a counterfeiter, and the producer does a pretty good job of showing how to counterfeit. A good book on the subject is “The Poor Man’s James Bond”.

If all of this seems too complicated to you, there is one other method available for counterfeiting: The Canon color laser copier. The Canon can replicate ANYTHING in vibrant color, including US currency. But, once again, the main problem in counterfeiting is the paper used. So, experiment Counterfeiting Money, and good luck!

Would  a counterfeiter ever have a use for titanium?
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Missing Persons (Melvin Wilson)
« Reply #22 on: October 09, 2014, 04:48:56 PM »
not that I am aware of, but I just started looking into this. the plates don't seem to be anything but 'metal plates" I haven't found anything about what they are made of. would he print money with a tie on? perhaps if he was going somewhere and was short of cash.
 

Offline EVickiW

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Re: Missing Persons (Melvin Wilson)
« Reply #23 on: October 09, 2014, 05:21:36 PM »
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not that I am aware of, but I just started looking into this. the plates don't seem to be anything but 'metal plates" I haven't found anything about what they are made of. would he print money with a tie on? perhaps if he was going somewhere and was short of cash.

Particles in the air, dust and debris in the general surroundings can be picked up by articles of clothing. A person does not necessarily need to be wearing the tie when working. The tie could have been in the general area.

You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Missing Persons (Melvin Wilson)
« Reply #24 on: October 09, 2014, 08:54:40 PM »
Ok, I did a couple of your PDF's. some are not as easy because the paragraphs are longer in some spots making it harder to enlarge into one part. I have to reformat some of them to fit.
 

georger

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Re: Missing Persons (Melvin Wilson)
« Reply #25 on: October 09, 2014, 11:23:57 PM »
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not that I am aware of, but I just started looking into this. the plates don't seem to be anything but 'metal plates" I haven't found anything about what they are made of. would he print money with a tie on? perhaps if he was going somewhere and was short of cash.

makes no sense to me he would work with a tie on but one never knows ... I'm skeptical titanium is involved in any of the photo plates... not sure what metal they are but aluminum, steel ??  coated with an emulsion. I have heard that printers sometimes deepen lines on their plates with hand tools, etc. which would produce very small metal shavings ???  I'm no expert on any of this.

 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Missing Persons (Melvin Wilson)
« Reply #26 on: October 09, 2014, 11:32:46 PM »
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not that I am aware of, but I just started looking into this. the plates don't seem to be anything but 'metal plates" I haven't found anything about what they are made of. would he print money with a tie on? perhaps if he was going somewhere and was short of cash.

makes no sense to me he would work with a tie on but one never knows ... I'm skeptical titanium is involved in any of the photo plates... not sure what metal they are but aluminum, steel ??  coated with an emulsion. I have heard that printers sometimes deepen lines on their plates with hand tools, etc. which would produce very small metal shavings ???  I'm no expert on any of this.

The printing press might not of been the only machines he was around, who knows what else he was doing?
 

georger

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Re: Missing Persons (Melvin Wilson)
« Reply #27 on: October 09, 2014, 11:42:17 PM »
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not that I am aware of, but I just started looking into this. the plates don't seem to be anything but 'metal plates" I haven't found anything about what they are made of. would he print money with a tie on? perhaps if he was going somewhere and was short of cash.

makes no sense to me he would work with a tie on but one never knows ... I'm skeptical titanium is involved in any of the photo plates... not sure what metal they are but aluminum, steel ??  coated with an emulsion. I have heard that printers sometimes deepen lines on their plates with hand tools, etc. which would produce very small metal shavings ???  I'm no expert on any of this.

The printing press might not of been the only machines he was around, who knows what else he was doing?

I'll bet Mel could write a book! He probably knew some 'people to know' in his field. He appears to be the real McCoy!
(He sure had some great children, if I may say so).

 

Offline EVickiW

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Re: Missing Persons (Melvin Wilson)
« Reply #28 on: November 11, 2014, 06:35:13 PM »
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not that I am aware of, but I just started looking into this. the plates don't seem to be anything but 'metal plates" I haven't found anything about what they are made of. would he print money with a tie on? perhaps if he was going somewhere and was short of cash.

makes no sense to me he would work with a tie on but one never knows ... I'm skeptical titanium is involved in any of the photo plates... not sure what metal they are but aluminum, steel ??  coated with an emulsion. I have heard that printers sometimes deepen lines on their plates with hand tools, etc. which would produce very small metal shavings ???  I'm no expert on any of this.

The printing press might not of been the only machines he was around, who knows what else he was doing?

I'll bet Mel could write a book! He probably knew some 'people to know' in his field. He appears to be the real McCoy!
(He sure had some great children, if I may say so).

HEY ...... It looks like someone is making a movie about ME!  It is an independent film about DB Cooper's daughter. It is in post-production and will be released in the Spring of 2015.

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Interesting factoid....there is a picture on this link that has Geoffrey Gray's book cover and a picture of KC.
You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Missing Persons (Melvin Wilson)
« Reply #29 on: November 11, 2014, 06:54:32 PM »
I knew I should of got your autograph while you were here  ;D ;D


Looks like they had problems funding the film....

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« Last Edit: November 11, 2014, 07:01:10 PM by shutter »