Author Topic: General Questions About The Case  (Read 267084 times)

Offline Chaucer

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2625 on: September 23, 2020, 12:53:24 AM »
What I mean is, I assume that after the hijacking, the FBI combed missing persons reports from around the country. Did they use their own database? Were there other avenues to investigate regarding missing persons? Do they continue to follow up on missing persons from back then?

I recently ran across a guy named Roger Carlson whose car was found abandoned near the Golden Gate Bridge in 1970, but wasn't officially reported as missing until 2008 - mostly because was Native American.
 

Offline georger

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2626 on: September 24, 2020, 12:47:08 AM »
Have found many files investigating one: Robert Wesley Jones. Came to the FBI's attention in the Cooper case in 1978!

Who is Robert Wesley Jones ? He is Robert Wesley Rackstraw!
 

Offline georger

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2627 on: September 24, 2020, 12:50:36 AM »
Robert Wesley Jones aka Robert Wesley Rackstraw's finger prints were compared to the prints on file in NORJACK - Rackstraw was eliminated as a suspect in NORJAK on the basis of finger prints not matching, and other factors! March 1978.

Palm prints were obtained and forward later [D.B. Cooper Part 40 of 40-386] and also failed a match. Rackstraw was eliminated. Only to be resurrected as a prominent suspect by Tom Colbert in the 2000s. 

There are 60+ files on Rackstraw in this Part alone dating back to 1978, so no one can claim he wasn't investigated! 
« Last Edit: September 24, 2020, 01:25:00 AM by georger »
 
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Offline georger

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2628 on: September 28, 2020, 11:34:33 PM »
Acting Director, L Patrick Gray, upgrades Cooper case.  9/15/72  Following a review of the case and no tangible results.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2020, 11:36:38 PM by georger »
 
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Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2629 on: October 02, 2020, 11:43:41 PM »
Fingerprints

Does anyone know if the FBI actually has fingerprints from DB Cooper that are reliable, and that the Bureau has confidence in?

If so, how many? Can you tell me anything more about them, such as the location from where the print was taken, etc.

I've come to realize I need to develop a whole new section on the fingerprint issue for the third edition, just like the DNA chapter.

There seems to be so much dissonance about the fingerprints. Calame and Rhodes say the Bureau got 11 sets of prints and they were all useless, as a 302 posted recently indicates.

Then we have another 302 that says Rackstraw was dismissed due to a "not a match" to fingerprints on file.

I remember Larry Carr posting that there were 66 sets of fingerprints, and someone else saying there were 77 sets.

I'm really confused. Any help anyone can provide is most welcome. Thanks
« Last Edit: October 02, 2020, 11:44:03 PM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

Offline EU

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2630 on: October 03, 2020, 01:32:29 PM »
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Fingerprints

Does anyone know if the FBI actually has fingerprints from DB Cooper that are reliable, and that the Bureau has confidence in?

If so, how many? Can you tell me anything more about them, such as the location from where the print was taken, etc.

I've come to realize I need to develop a whole new section on the fingerprint issue for the third edition, just like the DNA chapter.

There seems to be so much dissonance about the fingerprints. Calame and Rhodes say the Bureau got 11 sets of prints and they were all useless, as a 302 posted recently indicates.

Then we have another 302 that says Rackstraw was dismissed due to a "not a match" to fingerprints on file.

I remember Larry Carr posting that there were 66 sets of fingerprints, and someone else saying there were 77 sets.

I'm really confused. Any help anyone can provide is most welcome. Thanks

If my memory serves me correctly there is something in the FBI files that references 66 prints or something close to that number.

The $64,000 question is "How does the FBI know whether any of these prints are or are not Cooper's?" The short answer is, I don't know and I'm not sure that they really know. That said, by definition the FBI cannot rule out anyone because of fingerprints if they can't confirm Cooper's prints to begin with.

If I had to hazard a guess, I think it is unlikely that the FBI has Cooper's prints. It does appear that Cooper wiped certain areas down, and of course we all know how anal Cooper was about leaving any evidence behind, the tie notwithstanding.
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Offline andrade1812

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2631 on: October 03, 2020, 01:41:45 PM »
Read the FBI docs guys... The FBI had one really good palm print from the chair Cooper was sitting. It was the primary print used to eliminate suspects since the FBI believed only Cooper could have left it. It's why they worked so hard to get palm prints from suspects.
 

Offline georger

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2632 on: October 03, 2020, 02:23:22 PM »
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Read the FBI docs guys... The FBI had one really good palm print from the chair Cooper was sitting. It was the primary print used to eliminate suspects since the FBI believed only Cooper could have left it. It's why they worked so hard to get palm prints from suspects.

Agree - because the 302s confirm what you say. The palm print was central for most 'print' eliminations. In fact, the 302s document by 1973 'prints' and 'palm prints' were being asked of all suspects where possible, and being processed by two different Lab sections: Latent Print Section vs Palm Print Section, and the process had even been "automated" due to the large number of of suspect comparisons being processed.! Reports come back from these two different lab sections within the Latent Print Section to Seattle.  There are boxes on these reports for Latent Prints vs Palm Prints. Andrade is correct and 302s confirm when he says:

"The FBI had one really good palm print from the chair Cooper was sitting. It was the primary print used to eliminate suspects since the FBI believed only Cooper could have left it. It's why they worked so hard to get palm prints from suspects."

Numbers vary. 50+ SPECIMENS were collected from the plane and objects in the plane - several palm prints, hand print smudges, finger prints, partial finger prints, print smudges, hairs, etc. A canvas of all 302s related to these matters is pending. Its safe to say the core evidence used for comparisons consisted of at least 5 finger prints, 1 palm print, two hair fibres, and several other specimens ... and as letters came in after the hijacking viable prints were lifted from these letters and envelopes and compared to the Latent Print core evidence. The FBI Latent Print Section had a full set of prints for all crew members and others associated with the case. The Lab was as thorough as possible in its examinations.

Two Lab reports of interest - 1971.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2020, 02:46:47 PM by georger »
 

Offline EU

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2633 on: October 03, 2020, 02:43:04 PM »
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Read the FBI docs guys... The FBI had one really good palm print from the chair Cooper was sitting. It was the primary print used to eliminate suspects since the FBI believed only Cooper could have left it. It's why they worked so hard to get palm prints from suspects.

Agree - because the 302s confirm what you say. The palm print was central for most 'print' eliminations. In fact, the 302s document by 1973 'prints' and 'palm prints' were being asked of all suspects where possible, and being processed by two different Lab sections: Latent Print Section vs Palm Print Section, and the process had even been "automated" due to the large number of of suspect comparisons being processed.! Reports come back from these two different lab sections within the Latent Print Section to Seattle.  There are boxes on these reports for Latent Prints vs Palm Prints. Andrade is correct and 302s confirm when he says:

"The FBI had one really good palm print from the chair Cooper was sitting. It was the primary print used to eliminate suspects since the FBI believed only Cooper could have left it. It's why they worked so hard to get palm prints from suspects."

Numbers vary. 50+ SPECIMENS were collected from the plane and objects in the plane - several palm prints, hand print smudges, finger prints, partial finger prints, print smudges, hairs, etc. A canvas of all 302s related to these matters is pending. Its safe to say the core evidence used for comparisons consisted of at least 5 finger prints, 1 palm print, two hair fibres, and several other specimens ... and as letters came in after the hijacking viable prints were lifted from these letters and envelopes and compared to the Latent Print core evidence. The FBI Latent Print Section had a full set of prints for all crew members and others associated with the case. The Lab was as thorough as possible in its examinations.

Why then did the FBI show up at Sheridan Peterson's door in 2003 and ask only for DNA...no palm prints?
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Offline georger

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2634 on: October 03, 2020, 02:49:19 PM »
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Read the FBI docs guys... The FBI had one really good palm print from the chair Cooper was sitting. It was the primary print used to eliminate suspects since the FBI believed only Cooper could have left it. It's why they worked so hard to get palm prints from suspects.

Agree - because the 302s confirm what you say. The palm print was central for most 'print' eliminations. In fact, the 302s document by 1973 'prints' and 'palm prints' were being asked of all suspects where possible, and being processed by two different Lab sections: Latent Print Section vs Palm Print Section, and the process had even been "automated" due to the large number of of suspect comparisons being processed.! Reports come back from these two different lab sections within the Latent Print Section to Seattle.  There are boxes on these reports for Latent Prints vs Palm Prints. Andrade is correct and 302s confirm when he says:

"The FBI had one really good palm print from the chair Cooper was sitting. It was the primary print used to eliminate suspects since the FBI believed only Cooper could have left it. It's why they worked so hard to get palm prints from suspects."

Numbers vary. 50+ SPECIMENS were collected from the plane and objects in the plane - several palm prints, hand print smudges, finger prints, partial finger prints, print smudges, hairs, etc. A canvas of all 302s related to these matters is pending. Its safe to say the core evidence used for comparisons consisted of at least 5 finger prints, 1 palm print, two hair fibres, and several other specimens ... and as letters came in after the hijacking viable prints were lifted from these letters and envelopes and compared to the Latent Print core evidence. The FBI Latent Print Section had a full set of prints for all crew members and others associated with the case. The Lab was as thorough as possible in its examinations.

Why then did the FBI show up at Sheridan Peterson's door in 2003 and ask only for DNA...no palm prints?

... because zebra have stripes? 
 

Offline andrade1812

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2635 on: October 03, 2020, 03:34:24 PM »
It's very simple, the fact Sheridan was even willing to let the FBI collect his DNA was proof enough that he wasn't Cooper. Sheridan still has something to lose, and had no reason to cooperate with the FBI.
 

Offline EU

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2636 on: October 03, 2020, 03:44:22 PM »
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It's very simple, the fact Sheridan was even willing to let the FBI collect his DNA was proof enough that he wasn't Cooper. Sheridan still has something to lose, and had no reason to cooperate with the FBI.

This is just not true.

There have been many examples of criminals volunteering DNA knowing full well they'll be busted. Specifically, we had a case in Phoenix a couple of years ago where a worker at a nursing home impregnated a woman who had long-been in a coma and ended up giving birth. The guy volunteered a DNA sample and a couple of days later was in jail.

Also, I spoke with Sheridan personally about this and he told me that he thought that if he didn't agree to give the DNA that he would be taken into custody on the spot.

Moreover, it still doesn't answer why the FBI didn't ask for his palm print.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2020, 03:46:01 PM by EU »
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Offline andrade1812

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2637 on: October 03, 2020, 04:36:40 PM »
Guess we'll just have to wait for another round of FOIA requests to get the information the FBI has on Sheridan.
 

Offline EU

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2638 on: October 03, 2020, 05:19:17 PM »
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Guess we'll just have to wait for another round of FOIA requests to get the information the FBI has on Sheridan.

Unfortunately the FOIA files will only go through May 1992. In Sheridan's case all of the older files have already been released. The 2003 files we will not get. That said, there are some options.
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Offline georger

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2639 on: October 03, 2020, 05:31:37 PM »
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Guess we'll just have to wait for another round of FOIA requests to get the information the FBI has on Sheridan.

 ;)  There are no FOIA's for the period Ulis is talking about! FOIA's go up to about 1980 .... Sheridan was finally approached by the Feds in what? 2000s?

Between 1971 and 2010 the FBI Lab not only changed locations (Quantico came into play), the old Lab socalled at Washington also split into numerous new divisions not to mention a total revolution in technologies and services. Automation wherever possible sped up turnaround. The Latent Print Section took advantage of that evolution as software was developed. By around 1989 IDT and others began developing and supplying the first generation of dna kits to Quantico etc ....

By the time Sheridan is tested the Lab and its evidence base has changed completely. In the 70s the one good palm print was central and 302s document that. By the 2000s the evidence set has changed. Ive never seen a 302 from 1970-80 with Sheridan's name on it, or any reference to Sheridan in spite of his Boeing connections socalled ... at least so far.!

If Ulis has an old 302 with Sheridan's name on it, let him produce it!     :chr2: 

Sheridan Peterson is not DB Cooper in any event, no more than Etic Ulis himself is!   :rofl:

BTW, Blevins' old contention that Boeing employees were not investigated, is total bunk - laughable baloney! There are hundreds of 302s documenting Boeing employees being investigated, one at a time .... etc. 
« Last Edit: October 03, 2020, 05:42:55 PM by georger »