Author Topic: General Questions About The Case  (Read 214580 times)

Offline georger

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2175 on: June 29, 2019, 04:10:14 PM »
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Thanks for the reply Bruce.   Hager died early in 2007. The last couple of months before his death he would show me posts from an online forum. I am curious as to what forum he was following. I regret not paying closer attention at the time.   Were there discussions about the case on Sluggo's site or was his site just for viewing?   I am sorry if this doesn't seem related to the case to most of you but from my perspective it is of relevance.

If you can post some of the names of posters on that forum I may be able to identify the forum.

Smith was a late comer -

Small Cooper forums and private Yahoo groups about the Cooper case go clear back into the 90's. Im not going to try to list them all - with a few notable exceptions, many of them were run by cranks with no knowledge whatever. A Google search might turn some of those old extinct groups up. Blevins did a search for them and found my name on several of the old ones, and harassed me about it at Dropzone later.

Jo Weber posted in a few of those old threads as she was working up her vita for presentation to Himmelsbach. You could almost see her history being formed as she tried one story out then would vanish only to appear somewhere else trying another version of her story. Years later at DZ, I finally hit her with some of her own words from early threads and she went ballistic and started calling me names, claiming she had never said what she had said earlier! But she couldnt deny her own history with the old urls still available on Google. The issue is what exactly had Duane said according to Jo, about the Cooper case. JT said he had Jo on tape saying 'he might have known who Cooper was' vs. 'I am DB Cooper'! Jo's early posts do not claim that Duane told her he was DB Cooper.   Snowmman got a kick out of unraveling her 'trail of bullshit'. Bruce Smith didn't think it did any harm ... which is a commentary of another type. :rofl:

Prior to Dropzone by 2-3 years: the primary Cooper thread was at Websleuths. East Coast and West Coast (Myers & Dvorsky) were persecuting some guy (Ted Mayfield) for being DB Cooper. You can read about that on Wiki. They even got news coverage on several TV station in Washington. Snowmman was prominent at the Websleuth Cooper thread. Weber was never at Websleuths because the competition for truth and facts was too stiff. Dropzone finally opened a Cooper thread and Weber claimed responsibility for that - who knows what the truth about that was. The Websleuth thread died but still exists today, and just about everyone there moved to Dropzone. Shutter has even gone over and posted in the old Websluth thread, in the current era.

But there were three other small Cooper threads in addition to Websleuth. One thread was at a Science forum and it had real potential until a religious nut in South Dakota joined the forum and destroyed the site! There was another private Cooper thread at Yahoo Groups but it died from lack of participation and management - some say it was Sluggo who started that group?  The third group was buried/closed to the public. Galen Cook is rumored to have had a private forum - maybe you should ask Bruce Smith about that.

It wasn't until Ckret joined the Dropzone thread that any Cooper thread became viable. Everything including this forum has been a spinoff of Dropzone and Dropzone people.

A Google search will turn up a lot of these old extinct threads.  The Internet has opened the case up to the public - this wasn't available before. Before that people talked about the case within the circles of their families and friends and work colleagues, informally.         

   
« Last Edit: June 29, 2019, 04:56:08 PM by georger »
 
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Offline haggarknew

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2176 on: June 29, 2019, 05:49:25 PM »
A big thank you for the reply.   I believe I remember Mark Bennet, 377, snowman, and maybe Shutter, R-99 as well as your name. I very well be mistaken about some of the names but I am fairly certain of snowman, 377, and almost positive of Mark Bennett.(Hager's favorite) Was the Cooper thread at dropzone opened in 2007 or 2008? Hag and I discussed D. B. up to a couple of days before his death in March of 2007. A lot of our conversations were actually his answers (or explanations) to whatever was being discussed online at the time. We were involved in a discussion of a certain part of the case which was extremely important to Hag. This was just a couple of days before his passing. Unfortunately we never got the chance to finish it. I am hoping to find the forum Hager was following in hopes it may provide some answers or at least some additional clues into what we were discussing.  Thank you once again for your response Georger. I would love to hear more from you and also others about how you got interested in the case.   
 

Offline MarkBennett

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2177 on: June 29, 2019, 07:55:30 PM »
It wasn’t me that Haggar read unless he has access from the great beyond.  I joined Dropzone after attending the DB Cooper symposium in 2011.  If Haggar can follow from the great beyond I think we’ll have questions for him beyond the Cooper case.
 
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Offline haggarknew

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2178 on: June 29, 2019, 11:47:28 PM »
I apologize for my mistake Mr. Bennett. I must of misunderstood whom Hag was referring to when he said 'Mark'. Any other 'Marks ' in the vortex around 2006 or very early 2007?
 

Offline georger

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2179 on: June 30, 2019, 03:09:11 AM »
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A big thank you for the reply.   I believe I remember Mark Bennet, 377, snowman, and maybe Shutter, R-99 as well as your name. I very well be mistaken about some of the names but I am fairly certain of snowman, 377, and almost positive of Mark Bennett.(Hager's favorite) Was the Cooper thread at dropzone opened in 2007 or 2008? Hag and I discussed D. B. up to a couple of days before his death in March of 2007. A lot of our conversations were actually his answers (or explanations) to whatever was being discussed online at the time. We were involved in a discussion of a certain part of the case which was extremely important to Hag. This was just a couple of days before his passing. Unfortunately we never got the chance to finish it. I am hoping to find the forum Hager was following in hopes it may provide some answers or at least some additional clues into what we were discussing.  Thank you once again for your response Georger. I would love to hear more from you and also others about how you got interested in the case.

Hag (no disrespect intended), the Old Thread at DZ goes back to at least 2004 and may have existed in 2003 or earlier. NickDG makes a coment in one of his posts on Jul 2004 as follows:

"In August 2000, the D.B. Cooper case was exhumed in this column and readers still call and write to ask if the clues we provided have panned out.

Back then a Florida woman named Jo Weber called to say she suspected her late husband, Duane Weber, had been D.B. Cooper, the only man who ever hijacked a commercial airliner in this country and got away with it. "

So maybe people at the DZ were discussing Cooper and Weber in particular clear back in 2000? I know we never discussed Weber at Websleuths because I was there almost from its start to when Weber surfaced at DZ. My first intro to Weber was at DZ. I have a complete copy of the old thread at DZ which has since been taken down.

Websleuth was active clear up until 2008: Snow, Sluggo, and several others were posting at Websleuth and Dropzone in 2007-08. I have those old posts saved.

 


 
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Offline haggarknew

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2180 on: June 30, 2019, 08:24:07 AM »
Thanks Georger. I thought Hager was following 'you guys'(his term) on DZ but when I went to that site the earliest posts I could see started in 2008. I was under the impression that the DZ actually started in 2008.   At one point ,not long before Hager's passing, there was some discussion about the various. D. B. Cooper letters. I think Vancouver B.C. was mentioned . Although Hager had doubts about the authenticity of the letters he did think there might have been some connection between Vancouver and the case.  He said there was a business (some place where they may have been involved in some type of metal manufacturing) that I believe he said was located somewhere in the lower third of the state of Washington.(I think he described it as being in the south central part of the state). I am sorry I don't remember the name of it.(sorry again Mr.Bennett, I am obviously not good with names)  Hager said this company had another plant (if that's the right description) located in Vancouver B.C. They were different branches of the same company. I think the B.C. location might have been the company's headquarters .   
 
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Offline haggarknew

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2181 on: June 30, 2019, 08:29:50 AM »
(couldn't seem to be able to fit this into the above)      Hager thought he originally might have met Chuck Dooley at the company's Washington site.
 

Online Robert99

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2182 on: June 30, 2019, 06:04:54 PM »
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A big thank you for the reply.   I believe I remember Mark Bennet, 377, snowman, and maybe Shutter, R-99 as well as your name. I very well be mistaken about some of the names but I am fairly certain of snowman, 377, and almost positive of Mark Bennett.(Hager's favorite) Was the Cooper thread at dropzone opened in 2007 or 2008? Hag and I discussed D. B. up to a couple of days before his death in March of 2007. A lot of our conversations were actually his answers (or explanations) to whatever was being discussed online at the time. We were involved in a discussion of a certain part of the case which was extremely important to Hag. This was just a couple of days before his passing. Unfortunately we never got the chance to finish it. I am hoping to find the forum Hager was following in hopes it may provide some answers or at least some additional clues into what we were discussing.  Thank you once again for your response Georger. I would love to hear more from you and also others about how you got interested in the case.

First, Snowmman is on this thread at this moment.  Second, here are some of the times for people joining the current DZ Cooper forum.  I don't have any information on the earlier DZ Cooper forum.

Quade, 02/03/2008, which was the start of the present forum.
Georger, 05/25/2008.
Bruce Smith, 03/03/2009.
Robert99, 03/13/2009.
MrShutter45, 12/25/2011.

FYI, my involvement in the Cooper matter started when the FBI asked for public assistance.  I ended up talking to Sluggo for quite a while and he told me about the DZ Cooper forum.  I didn't post on any Cooper forum prior to joining the DZ Cooper forum on March 13, 2009.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2019, 06:07:11 PM by Robert99 »
 
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Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2183 on: June 30, 2019, 06:25:07 PM »
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1.   ...Smith was a late comer -

2.  ... Jo Weber posted in a few of those old threads as she was working up her vita for presentation to Himmelsbach. You could almost see her history being formed as she tried one story out then would vanish only to appear somewhere else trying another version of her story. Snowmman got a kick out of unraveling her 'trail of bullshit'. Bruce Smith didn't think it did any harm ... which is a commentary of another type. :rofl:

3.   ...The third group was buried/closed to the public. Galen Cook is rumored to have had a private forum - maybe you should ask Bruce Smith about that.

4.   It wasn't until Ckret joined the Dropzone thread that any Cooper thread became viable. Everything including this forum has been a spinoff of Dropzone and Dropzone people.


1. Late comer? 2009 was ten years ago. Plus, G, you joined the DZ only a few months before I did.

2.  Did Jo Weber do any harm? Only in the fact that a serial liar creates a toxic environment to discuss important issues, such as our investigations. More troubling is Jo's extraordinary knowledge base. Plus, she has unprecedented access to Cooper principals. I was shocked when Lee Dormuth (Tina's brother-in-law) told me that Jo was talking to his wife (Jane Mucklow Dormuth - Tina's sister) the night before I showed up at their doorstep in Shelton, WA. Also, when I contacted MSgt Billy Waugh, he stunned me by saying at our first interview: "I hope you're not like that Jo Weber lady. She's crazy!"

How did Jo know the Dormuths and Billy's contact info? There are many other instances where Jo seems to have an unprecedented level of insider information. I have often wondered - and written - if she is "someone else's eyes and ears."

3. Galen does not have a chat room or any kind of online forum. In fact, he posted frequently at the DZ, and got kicked off for bad behavior, as have many of us... right, G???

4.  Yup. Larry Carr kicked everything into high gear. It is one of the salient points of his legacy.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2184 on: June 30, 2019, 10:28:46 PM »
Some background for Haggar....

As Robert shows above, I joined the DZ in 2011. I was always curious about the case but never looked into over the years. while surfing on the web I seen Marla Cooper's story making headlines. I started looking into her story and found multiple problems. somewhere a long the line I found the DZ. it was tough at the start. somehow I was accepted and fell into place.

As time went by Mr. Blevins became an issue after we decided to take him up on "checking things for ourselves". we found all kinds of problems and it went downhill drastically from then on. he's already molding himself into what happened the last time. I seen the thread slowly dying and decided to take a risk an open a new forum minus a few members. not long after the opening of this thread. the DZ was shutdown.

I use to be pretty good at research and finding things and as time went by the bickering returned. it was here, and constantly dealing with Mr. Blevins. it's not very easy to get a bunch of people to discuss things. some seek fame and $$$$ while others try and control. some try to do both. I don't like to put labels on people as others have done in the past. people are people. we have good runs and then it skews. my goal is not reaching every human on the planet. it's a forum meant to discuss DB Cooper. a lot of people don't really care about who Cooper is. I just want to try and make some sense out of everything available. I think my stretch on Websleuths steams from Georger getting a vacation on the DZ. several of us went over there for a while. Jo Weber can drive you crazy too being on the same thread. she is positive Duane knew my father? she would call me two or three times a week. all I would say for an hour is, right, yes, ok etc.  :rofl:

A group of four guys acting as one gave me the first set of 302's that were never posted before. this was before Geoffrey posted his. a lot of good has spawned from this site. new documents, members showing up on the tube. we even have Brian Ingram on here but he only posted once. that's the short of my stint...

Shutter
 
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Offline haggarknew

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2185 on: July 01, 2019, 06:33:18 AM »
Thanks Shutter.(and everyone else). I appreciate everyone's response.  I am not sure which site Hag was following back in 2007 but at this point it may not be as relevant as I once thought. It's not that I don't care about it but it's obvious that if anybody from that time period is still involved in investigating the case more than likely they would be involved here. I really believe this is where Hager would want me to be. Besides all of that, I really like this place. (great site Shutter)
 
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Offline georger

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2186 on: July 01, 2019, 01:38:05 PM »
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Some background for Haggar....

As Robert shows above, I joined the DZ in 2011. I was always curious about the case but never looked into over the years. while surfing on the web I seen Marla Cooper's story making headlines. I started looking into her story and found multiple problems. somewhere a long the line I found the DZ. it was tough at the start. somehow I was accepted and fell into place.

As time went by Mr. Blevins became an issue after we decided to take him up on "checking things for ourselves". we found all kinds of problems and it went downhill drastically from then on. he's already molding himself into what happened the last time. I seen the thread slowly dying and decided to take a risk an open a new forum minus a few members. not long after the opening of this thread. the DZ was shutdown.

I use to be pretty good at research and finding things and as time went by the bickering returned. it was here, and constantly dealing with Mr. Blevins. it's not very easy to get a bunch of people to discuss things. some seek fame and $$$$ while others try and control. some try to do both. I don't like to put labels on people as others have done in the past. people are people. we have good runs and then it skews. my goal is not reaching every human on the planet. it's a forum meant to discuss DB Cooper. a lot of people don't really care about who Cooper is. I just want to try and make some sense out of everything available. I think my stretch on Websleuths steams from Georger getting a vacation on the DZ. several of us went over there for a while. Jo Weber can drive you crazy too being on the same thread. she is positive Duane knew my father? she would call me two or three times a week. all I would say for an hour is, right, yes, ok etc.  :rofl:

A group of four guys acting as one gave me the first set of 302's that were never posted before. this was before Geoffrey posted his. a lot of good has spawned from this site. new documents, members showing up on the tube. we even have Brian Ingram on here but he only posted once. that's the short of my stint...

Shutter

I think you are right about my couple of posts at Wbsleuth during a vacation from DZ!
 

Offline georger

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2187 on: July 01, 2019, 02:40:46 PM »
History of Jo Weber story -

According to Weber herself, she began investigating Cooper in 1995:

"Three days before he died in 1995, Weber told his wife, "I am Dan Cooper." The name meant nothing to her, she said; but months later, a friend told her of its significance in the hijacking. She went to her local library to research D.B. Cooper, found Max Gunther's book, and discovered notations in the margins in her husband's handwriting.[5]" wiki


Then the Max Gunther library book supposedly containing Duane's notes at Virginia Beach, Virginia. mysteriously vanished! Nobody could produce the book again to test Jo's claim that the hand writing she cited in Gunther's Cooper book was in fact Duane's hand writing. The Library was contacted and the book was 'missing or lost'!


Im not sure when Jo and Duane moved to Virginia Beach, Virginia but she made another claim. She said after she and Duane moved to Virginia Beach, Duane took her to see the house where Richard McCoy had been killed in 1974. According to Jo, Duane was sorry and felt guilty about McCoy's death at the hands of the FBI. Jo said Duane remarked: 'McCoy died a useless death'. Jo claims she knew nothing about the Cooper hijacking at the time.   

So Jo says she started her case clear back in 1995. She was also advertising a new realty business at Pace FL.

Jo was still 'researching and asking for help in 2006. She posted here in 2006 detailing her search history: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

She contacted a writer (Pasternak) in 2000 seeking help; he wrote an article on her case. She then contacted FBI Agent Himmelsback and convinced him to open a file in her behalf. Himmelsbach referred her to Jerry Thomas. According to JT Jo's claim was that Duane 'might have known who Cooper was' not that Duane had been DB Cooper! JT claims to have a recording of that telephone call.

Jo never could perfect a consistent proven case. She contacted hundreds of people saying "Please help me! I only want the truth."

At length she filed complaints against SA Larry Carr and tried to get him fired. That ended Carr's participation on Dropzone.   
« Last Edit: July 01, 2019, 04:37:11 PM by georger »
 
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Offline Parrotheadvol

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2188 on: July 01, 2019, 06:34:35 PM »
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A Google search might turn some of those old extinct groups up. Blevins did a search for them and found my name on several of the old ones, and harassed me about it at Dropzone later.         

Actually Georger, you can blame me for that, at least in part. There was a time when I didn't think that Blevins was that bad and that people on the forum was a little too hard on him. I was wrong, obviously, and I know that now. But, I was the one that came across the article with all of those "filthy comments" that Blevins so often alludes to and I sent him a link. I had no idea at the time that he was going to constantly bring it up and was NEVER going to let it go. I regret doing it every time he brings it up. But, as much as I'd like to, I can't undo it. My bad  :(  :(.
 
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Offline Shutter

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2189 on: July 01, 2019, 07:02:02 PM »
He's never shown a shred of proof. the last time he thought he had Georger's IP it was a Google bot IP.

The original story Blevins has was Regina gave him the IP addresses. then years later he claimed his tech buddy found them. another site is still running but I don't have the link. I have a very good idea who some of them are and it isn't Georger. the 2011 site was before I even came into the picture.