Author Topic: General Questions About The Case  (Read 174317 times)

Offline Shutter

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2070 on: December 09, 2018, 09:05:46 AM »
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The crew did what Cooper asked. the same would of been if he said to go no faster than 170 knots.

According to the Transcript his last instruction is merely: 'slow and stabilize the plane'. That isnt very technical!

where is that mentioned, not the radio transcripts?

well you are right - it is not in the Transcript as originally thought.  I guess its in one of the other interviews or something. Or maybe Im dreaming it at this point! This is becoming very tedious with a lot to keep track of.

I do recall Rataczak saying something like that when the plane was at 7,000 when the stairs first came down (partially) and was one of the reason's he went to 30 degree's. then they realized it was burning a lot of fuel and switched back to 15.

perhaps it's in that article when Skipped talked to him?
« Last Edit: December 09, 2018, 09:11:17 AM by Shutter »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2071 on: December 09, 2018, 09:42:34 AM »
At approx. 7:36 the plane takes off. at around 7:40 the flaps are set at 30 degree's. at 7:48 they begin to climb out of the 7,000 hold to 10,000 and switch to 15 degree's.

The troubling factor R99 always pointed out was the 7:40 mark. the plane travels 14 DME miles in 4 minutes and then reports 19 miles DME in 3 minutes. I could never match the first report at 7:40. Hominid always told me not to worry about the 7:40 mark and make the 19 DME mark. the crew never made any statements whether or not that they took off and left the configuration AT 15 degree's and wheels down or took off as normal with wheels up and less flap and more speed. that's the only way they Could get to the first mark of 14 DME by going faster than Cooper requested. they do report "slowing down to about 155" this tells me they did a possible normal takeoff.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2018, 09:54:43 AM by Shutter »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2072 on: December 09, 2018, 09:53:31 AM »
I was able to conclude that the flight path given could be flown the way they present it, to some extent. the timing is off between lake Merwin and crossing the Columbia. some of the minute marks are not accurate. the turn is odd at the 8:16 location on the map. it's a hard bank in order to get back onto V-23. I'm not really sure why they did some of the turns in this area.

I also tried R99's theory and concluded that the timing was off when trying to go straight down from the Malay intersection and passing Tina bar slightly to the west. Robert told me the takeoff time must be wrong. I disagree with that conclusion as well.

Hominid put me through a lot of testing to determine whether or not the simulator was accurate enough to use. we tested timing, winds, altitudes, speeds and even test flap settings while in flight. the difference with wheels up and down. the simulator passed.   
« Last Edit: December 09, 2018, 10:21:46 AM by Shutter »
 
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Offline Shutter

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2073 on: December 09, 2018, 10:47:39 AM »
This was an old test video when I first started the project. it's the first 4 minutes of the flight. I did a rookie mistake of forgetting to pull back on the throttle from 100% thrust. the engines over heat and start shutting down. it happens right at the end of the 4 minutes..

.
 

Offline EU

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2074 on: December 10, 2018, 12:11:57 PM »
As I've considered how DBC came to be familiar with Yuma, AZ I have theorized that he may have been in the Marines given that the Marines have an air station there.

However, I also learned that Boeing has flight tested commercial aircraft there for decades. I have been unable to verify when this all started. Nonetheless, I have been able to verify at a minimum that the 727 was tested, in part, at Edwards Air Force Base which is not too far away.

I believe that DBC's Yuma inquiry/statement is telling and may well point to a Marine or Boeing employee. After all, I maintain that relatively few people have heard of Yuma and know where it is located.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

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Offline Unsurelock

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2075 on: December 10, 2018, 02:31:57 PM »
Before the FBI came into existence, crooks used to head for the state line where the coppers chasing them had no jurisdiction. Since Yuma is directly on a border with Mexico, where he was asking to go, he may have scouted it out ahead of time.

Or perhaps he just looked it up after seeing the well-known film 3:10 to Yuma, released by Columbia pictures a decade earlier, or heard the re-release of it's title song 3:10 to Yuma in 1967. I don't think it's accurate to say that few people had heard of Yuma.
 

Offline andrade1812

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2076 on: January 08, 2019, 12:18:19 AM »
While we wait on Georger and Tom Kaye to produce some scientific results regarding the Tina Bar money, where can we go from here?

I think at this point we'll get a conclusive answer to the Tina Bar find, the money arrived via dredge in August of 1974.

Is there anymore analysis we can do with the McCrone results from the tie? Are there experiments we can do to help explain how the money go to the dredge location?

Is there anything we can do on the flight path? Or have we dried up all possible investigatory avenues?
 

Offline georger

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2077 on: January 08, 2019, 01:13:00 AM »
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While we wait on Georger and Tom Kaye to produce some scientific results regarding the Tina Bar money, where can we go from here?

I think at this point we'll get a conclusive answer to the Tina Bar find, the money arrived via dredge in August of 1974.

Is there anymore analysis we can do with the McCrone results from the tie? Are there experiments we can do to help explain how the money go to the dredge location?

Is there anything we can do on the flight path? Or have we dried up all possible investigatory avenues?

Dave has a pretty good short on dredge pumps and the dredging as you enter this site. Just find and follow the links ..

Dont expect any results from Tom or me any time soon. There is much to do ...
 
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Offline andrade1812

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2078 on: February 22, 2019, 06:13:41 PM »
I'm curious what aspects of the case people are currently working on, I'll start:

I'm currently:

--working through the Dan Cooper comics to see if it's reasonable that DB Cooper might have been a fan

--Reviewing every parachuting anecdote from WWII I can find, looking for a confirmed no-pull

--Reading through a collection of True magazines from the 50's and 60's to get an idea of what Max Gunther's Dan Leclair might have been like based on this reading habit.

There are a few things I'd like to do, for one thing observe the Washougal river during spring flooding and see just how much debris gets moved downstream. Second, I'd like to throw a few canvas sacks with ten kilos of paper in them and see how they move on the bottom of the Columbia river.

The one thing I would like the forum to accomplish is to help shutter finish his flight simulation of the FBI flight path and publish the results somewhere.
 

Offline jayslick141

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Re: General Questions About The Case-SKETCH
« Reply #2079 on: February 22, 2019, 06:53:42 PM »
Everyone is busy focusing on a sketch of DB and relying on physical description provided by multiple witnesses who clearly do not agree with each other on DB physical description. The mind plays ticks on us and its been proven over and over again but we still go back to rely on a specific description to eliminate suspects. For example, The Infamous Unabomber Sketch on the front cover of the Times Magazine comes to mind. In 1985 a witness got a 3 second glimpse of the Unabomber who left a bomb in computer store parking lot. The next day she spent a few hours with a sketch artist who created a sketch of the Unabomber. Well in 1995 the FBI meet the eye witness from the 1985 sighting and get a new sketch made and it is the infamous sketch seen on Time Magazine on April 25, 1995. However that sketch was actually the witness describing the original sketch artist she spent a few hours with in 1985 and not of the actual unabomber. Even though she was adimant her memory was intact and it was of the unabomber it was later realized she was actually describing the sketch artist. THE MIND PLAYS TRICKS ON US.

Also a more recent case of alledged bank robber in Denver Colorado named Steven Talley. Look up his case. He looks exactly like the man in the bank survillence video and was charged with 2 bank robberies. He professed his innocence dispite having a "doppelganger" caught on surveillance video.However his flimsy alibi (my speculation but if there was more concrete alibi evdience it would of been reported) (one robbery he has a time stamped phone call from his job making a telemarketing call to one customer, and the 2nd robbery he checked in at a food bank at the same time of robbery) evidence in both cases could not be rebutted and the bank teller in the 2nd bank robbery testifed that Steven Talley WAS NOT the same man who robbed the bank and they had the wrong guy. If the FBI can be wrong about a suspect based off actual video video OR in my opinion (he was the bank robber) the teller couldnt even ID the guy who robbered her when she was in court How can anyone eliminate a DB suspect on physical evidence that we all know is inconsistent.

So its hard not to laugh when someone says "Kenny" was only 5'9 and Cooper was 5'10 or Mccoy had protruding ears or Rackstraw was too young or Sheridan had blue eyes and balding.

Besides my theory and I can only claim as my own speculation is that the Cooper description from the multiple witnesses is basically a blend of a few men on board. That is where we get inconsitency about if he was first to board or last or he had his glasses on the whole time or just part of the time or brown or black suit and so on. Please move away from physical description to eliminate a suspect and focus on other things. just had to share.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2080 on: February 22, 2019, 07:36:03 PM »
Actually, the witnesses who knew who Cooper was (the stews) had very similar descriptions. it's the passengers all over the board because they had to recall someone they had no clue was a hijacker. I tend to go by the description vs the sketch.

Typically, bank robberies, and everyday crimes last seconds to minutes and the witnesses are in shock. this case is entirely different from typical crimes. the crew spent hours with Cooper. the passengers did as well but had no clue what was going on and didn't need a reason to recall Cooper.

The stews were trained for things like this. that doesn't mean they wasn't scared but have a bit of an edge over the passengers with descriptions. it's really hard to make someone 5' 8" 6 feet tall. one of the passengers never seen Cooper standing..
« Last Edit: February 22, 2019, 07:39:42 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2081 on: February 22, 2019, 07:44:14 PM »
I could ask you when coming out of a store what people looked like in the line you were in and it will probably be off. now, how good of a description do you think you would get being held hostage for several hours. just sitting there watching the suspect? a step further I would wonder what the description would be if you got out of the the store prior to the hold up and the guy was right behind you?
 

Offline Parrotheadvol

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2082 on: February 23, 2019, 01:28:31 PM »
Sketches can be off, but not always. I watched a program on the Golden State Killer the other day and some of those early sketches were spot on. So I wouldn't put a lot of weight on the sketch, but I wouldn't just assume it isn't accurate either. As Shutter said, the three stews descriptions were pretty close and I'd put a lot of weight on those. Some suspects, and Kenny is a fine example of this, can be eliminated based on several different things.
 
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Offline georger

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2083 on: February 24, 2019, 04:22:29 PM »
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Sketches can be off, but not always. I watched a program on the Golden State Killer the other day and some of those early sketches were spot on. So I wouldn't put a lot of weight on the sketch, but I wouldn't just assume it isn't accurate either. As Shutter said, the three stews descriptions were pretty close and I'd put a lot of weight on those. Some suspects, and Kenny is a fine example of this, can be eliminated based on several different things.

As usual, I am full of questions!

1, Did anyone see Cooper through a plane window from the outside of the plane?
2. Did the official who went on the plane wanting to talk to Cooper get a glimpse of him?
3. Any witness reports from people waiting to board the plane with Cooper?
4. NWA counter descriptions where Cooper got the ticket?
5. Any tv footage of Cooper, even a glimpse?
6. Anyone get a glimpse of Cooper through their rifle scopes?
7. Were any security cameras filming the parking lot or inside the airport?
8. How large were his hands - any description of his hands/finger nails?
9. (nobody reported large ears in proportion to his head)
10. . . .     
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2084 on: February 24, 2019, 04:24:22 PM »
All good questions.