Author Topic: Flight Path And Related Issues  (Read 184894 times)

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2565 on: August 16, 2019, 12:19:03 AM »
What is not clear is why the pilots didn't simply say they flew from one area to another in a straight run. they had to of seen the path. why wouldn't they say it's wrong? what would even be a reason to make it a secret or to cover it up? looking at one photo of the search area shows they looked all over the area from the Columbia west to the east and down to the Portland area..
« Last Edit: August 16, 2019, 12:19:37 AM by Shutter »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2566 on: August 16, 2019, 12:24:55 AM »
Quote
Has there ever been anything, any file, any suggestion by whomever ... that someone at the FAA worked on the flight path? Is there any reason to look beyond McChord and NWA people?

The path was prepared by McChord and given to the FBI which I assume was then given to Northwest. a file dedicated to the 302's surrounding the flight path needs to be made and dated to see where changes occurred before and after the map.
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2567 on: August 16, 2019, 12:33:25 AM »
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What is there left to re-analyze regarding the 2019 placard drift analysis? Nothing more than distance.

The bottom line is that the winds were traveling from the SW. Moreover, it is physically impossible for the placard to drift upwind.

So whether the placard drifted 14 miles or 4 miles who cares? The FBI Flight Path is off at that point. I don't see how this can possibly be debated. Of course there will be the fantasy crap about the wind actually blowing from the SE at that point. Frankly such discussions aren't worth my time.

Consider this: The FBI search area has the 220 lb Cooper drifting roughly 4 miles to the NE if he deployed immediately after jumping. What makes the placard any different?

I no longer subscribe to the Toledo-to-Canby Flight Path. However, I do subscribe to a Western Flight Path.

I no longer subscribe to the Toledo-to-Canby Flight Path. However, I do subscribe to a Western Flight Path.

But where does R99 stand? R99 is the real force behind all of this!

I think we all agree where Cooper bailed, is crucial to the Cooper story, and the money challenge. If he bailed near Ariel that poses problems. If he bailed where the H revision said in 1976, 12mi north of Portland, then there are problems. The closer you can bring Cooper to the active Columbia basin, that changes the focus of all money issues. ... I will just stop there.. we all know the various claims on the table being bet, unless it has changed since two days ago?

Keep us posted!
 ;D

I am standing by the Malay to Canby bypass (or a ground track extremely close to that direct line).  It's the only one that makes sense from a number of points and puts the airliner almost directly over Tina Bar at the estimated jump time of 8:11 or 8:12 PM.

I am also sticking with Cooper dying in the jump.

Further, I will probably have some additional comments related to the "FBI maps" in a day or so.

There does not seem to be any solid evidence that the FBI or even the FAA had anything to do with so-called "FBI maps".  Remember that Larry Carr reportedly posted those maps on DropZone and asked if anyone knew where they came from.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2019, 12:38:19 AM by Robert99 »
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2568 on: August 16, 2019, 12:41:59 AM »
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Quote
Has there ever been anything, any file, any suggestion by whomever ... that someone at the FAA worked on the flight path? Is there any reason to look beyond McChord and NWA people?

The path was prepared by McChord and given to the FBI which I assume was then given to Northwest. a file dedicated to the 302's surrounding the flight path needs to be made and dated to see where changes occurred before and after the map.

I believe there was a 302 released a year or so ago in which it was stated that the FBI gave some maps to NWA.  Presumably, this would be maps that the FBI got from the USAF.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2569 on: August 16, 2019, 12:48:21 AM »
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Remember that Larry Carr reportedly posted those maps on DropZone and asked if anyone knew where they came from

It's obvious Carr is human and probably didn't read all the 302's when the statement was made. it's also something not commented throughout the 302's. I don't know why Larry would ask the public where the map came from. sounds like a question asked to him to answer.
 

Offline georger

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2570 on: August 16, 2019, 12:56:03 AM »
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Quote
Has there ever been anything, any file, any suggestion by whomever ... that someone at the FAA worked on the flight path? Is there any reason to look beyond McChord and NWA people?

The path was prepared by McChord and given to the FBI which I assume was then given to Northwest. a file dedicated to the 302's surrounding the flight path needs to be made and dated to see where changes occurred before and after the map.

I believe there was a 302 released a year or so ago in which it was stated that the FBI gave some maps to NWA.  Presumably, this would be maps that the FBI got from the USAF.

The AirForce and NWA collaborated directly in the TAG team test.  I have little doubt it was the AF who generated the first fp map ... with that it may have been NWA who developed one of the first  search maps (the forward signed by someone at NWA )

the guy on the right is WALLY interviewed by WSHM.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2019, 01:10:56 AM by georger »
 

Offline georger

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2571 on: August 16, 2019, 12:58:28 AM »
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Remember that Larry Carr reportedly posted those maps on DropZone and asked if anyone knew where they came from

It's obvious Carr is human and probably didn't read all the 302's when the statement was made. it's also something not commented throughout the 302's. I don't know why Larry would ask the public where the map came from. sounds like a question asked to him to answer.

Nobody ever bothered to ask Ckret why he was making that statement. But he did make a comment later that he had many files he hadn't even had time to examine yet, and he would look for files when he got time, related to questions people were asking at DZ - at night on his own personal time, in bed!  Remember Sluggo asked him what he was drinking in bed ....  :D
« Last Edit: August 16, 2019, 01:13:12 AM by georger »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2572 on: August 16, 2019, 06:43:30 AM »
Carr produced the map never seen by anyone prior, correct? if so I'm sure someone asked where it came from? It's documented that the Air Force made the maps. Tom Kaye confirmed Paul S. made the LZ map.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2019, 06:48:31 AM by Shutter »
 

Offline EU

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2573 on: August 16, 2019, 09:20:30 AM »
R99's Toledo-to-Malay path differs from my updated version in one respect only. That is to say that I believe 305 made the turn at Maylay and headed down V23 briefly before heading 160 just east of Kelso. In both cases 305 picks up V23 near Canby (as depicted on the FBI Flight Path). So R99 and I essentially concur on the flight path.

In both cases 305 flies virtually right over Tena Bar. R99's timing is slightly different then mine and he thinks DBC perished whereas I think DBC survived.

Regardless, we both recognize a major problem with the FBI Flight Path.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

RFK
 
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Offline georger

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2574 on: August 16, 2019, 02:17:19 PM »
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Carr produced the map never seen by anyone prior, correct? if so I'm sure someone asked where it came from? It's documented that the Air Force made the maps. Tom Kaye confirmed Paul S. made the LZ map.

I guess so ....... ?

Prior to the DZ thread there were no maps posted on any other Cooper site ? That I know of .
« Last Edit: August 16, 2019, 02:53:46 PM by georger »
 

Offline georger

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2575 on: August 16, 2019, 02:53:02 PM »
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R99's Toledo-to-Malay path differs from my updated version in one respect only. That is to say that I believe 305 made the turn at Maylay and headed down V23 briefly before heading 160 just east of Kelso. In both cases 305 picks up V23 near Canby (as depicted on the FBI Flight Path). So R99 and I essentially concur on the flight path.

In both cases 305 flies virtually right over Tena Bar. R99's timing is slightly different then mine and he thinks DBC perished whereas I think DBC survived.

Regardless, we both recognize a major problem with the FBI Flight Path.

Pardon my ignorance but who are you to be giving the world a DB Cooper flight path!?

Pilot, navigator, engineer, bon vivant ... ?
« Last Edit: August 16, 2019, 02:58:40 PM by georger »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2576 on: August 16, 2019, 04:57:45 PM »
The flight path is all over the place lately...I'm wondering when someone with start believing they dumped him out in the ocean as Rataczak originally wanted to do...maybe we should call it the Wild West Path  :rofl:
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2577 on: August 16, 2019, 04:59:24 PM »
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Carr produced the map never seen by anyone prior, correct? if so I'm sure someone asked where it came from? It's documented that the Air Force made the maps. Tom Kaye confirmed Paul S. made the LZ map.

I guess so ....... ?

Prior to the DZ thread there were no maps posted on any other Cooper site ? That I know of .

Not that I'm aware of. it's sounds like someone asked him where the maps came from and he answered with not knowing.

The map was given to the FBI on November 26, 1971...
« Last Edit: August 16, 2019, 05:09:28 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline georger

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2578 on: August 16, 2019, 05:45:23 PM »
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Carr produced the map never seen by anyone prior, correct? if so I'm sure someone asked where it came from? It's documented that the Air Force made the maps. Tom Kaye confirmed Paul S. made the LZ map.

I guess so ....... ?

Prior to the DZ thread there were no maps posted on any other Cooper site ? That I know of .

Not that I'm aware of. it's sounds like someone asked him where the maps came from and he answered with not knowing.

The map was given to the FBI on November 26, 1971...

Cook has claimed he saw or had the fp map, years ago - people that worked for Tosaw in 1980 said he had an FBI flight path map with him on the boat(s). Its likely officials shared the map with others through the years. We see the fp map in photos taken in the 1972 search.

Wally and a few others commented (in a number of interviews) about the 'flight path search map's origin' and I am trying to get time to go through those notes and present them in some kind of logical manner.  That TAG team photo is important because it shows some of the people who were central to the development of the flight path search map. One reason for the test flight was to duplicate conditions and refine when and where Cooper bailed ... 
« Last Edit: August 16, 2019, 05:52:08 PM by georger »
 

Offline 377

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2579 on: August 16, 2019, 06:03:42 PM »
Jumping tomorrow over the Byron CA DZ. Will be carrying more stuff than Cooper did, multiple radios, etc. I am going to pull just after exit. Don't want to risk getting unstable. A fast spin would probably shake loose my stowed 20 meter long wire antenna and wrap me up in it. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Wish Georger would fire up on 14.240 MHz USB and make a contact. I have talked to hams as far away as Maryland on that frequency while under canopy. I only use a couple of watts. My HF radio runs on AA batteries.

I think Cooper survived the jump. If he died there would be rent or a mortgage unpaid, mail piling up, friends and relatives wondering where someone had disappeared to. Somebody would put two and two together given the publicity and the sketches.

377
 
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