You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Interesting side note about Quentin Tarentino. When I was in first grade, Tarentino was a 5th grader at the same school. There was drive in theater a few blocks from where I live now, where Terentino says he first developed his love for movies. I remember going there as a kid and seeing "Walking Tall".

Too bad Tarentino doesn't do a D.B. Cooper movie. Probably wouldn't be factual, but it would damn entertaining.

I’d see no problem doing a movie based on D B Cooper that wasn’t pretending to be a true story ! Base the movie and known facts of hyjacking and POSSIBLE conclusions. Interesting to have gone to school with such a great Producer!

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Interesting side note about Quentin Tarentino. When I was in first grade, Tarentino was a 5th grader at the same school. There was drive in theater a few blocks from where I live now, where Terentino says he first developed his love for movies. I remember going there as a kid and seeing "Walking Tall".

Too bad Tarentino doesn't do a D.B. Cooper movie. Probably wouldn't be factual, but it would damn entertaining.

I’d see no problem doing a movie based on D B Cooper that wasn’t pretending to be a true story ! Base the movie and known facts of hyjacking and POSSIBLE conclusions. Interesting to have gone to school with such a great Producer!

I turned into the last episode of Mad Men, only because I heard rumor that Draper may be Cooper and hijack the plane...was disappointed when it didn't happen.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Robert99:  I didn't mean "missing minutes" to be taken literally, but rather figuratively as an unaccounted for "time frame for jump exit."   The exact exit time for Cooper will never be known.  The pilots did not log the time of the bump, and the bump isn't an absolute indication of him leaving the aircraft.  There is speculation in play on Cooper's time of probable departure.  And the money find at Tina's Bar is important to the case, but limited in value if you believe that it is direct evidence of the flight path.  It is not.  There is a chance that the money find was a cunnard.  This case carries no ablsolutes.  Alignment of factual evidence does not produce a clear solution.  And if you think you know the solution, you still have a problem, because the factual evidence does not fall into place to bare out a clear conclusion.

Coopsnoop, let me post the below to give some meat to the discussion. What follows includes
paraphrased testimony recently received from H. Anderson, received by myself and two others.
People can cherry pick what I am posting, agree, disagree, complain, ... whatever. But I believe
what follows is an accurate portrait and paraphrase of testimony recently received, juxtaposed
with the timeline in the Transcripts -

Intro: The period of the ‘oscillations & bump’ was used to set the time and location of Cooper’s
jump.  These symptoms of a parachutist leaving the 727 via the rear door/stairs was
unanticipated by the flight crew at the time, therefore the crew was not sure what was going on
or it’s meaning. Tina had come forward  and advised ‘it appears Cooper is getting ready to
jump’.     

19:42 (07:42)   Flt 305 reports “14 NM out of SEA on Victor-23. Cooper is trying to get the door
down, Stew is with us, he cannot get the stairs down. We now have an aft stair light on.
19:54 (07:54)    Flt 305 reports: Miss Mucklow said he apparently has the knapsack around him
and [she] thinks he will jump.

19:54 (07:54)   Flt Ops MSP advised that they have a direct phone patch hooked up on 131.8
MHz. [Phone patch to NWA … indicates crew thinks Cooper about to bail, communication restricted
to NWA?]

Time ??           Cooper calls on intercom requests “Slow down! Stabilize the plane…”. Unreported in
TR but verified in crew testimony. Scott responds by slowing and stabilizing the aircraft so Cooper
can bail. Rataczak communicating events to NWA as they happen. (source: Rataczak & Anderson)

20:05 (08:05)   MSP-Flt Ops. Pilot reports that he has tried twice to contact Cooper unsuccessfully,
then he came on the PA system and said everything is OK.  (Cooper still on the plane)

20:11 (08:11)  Time generally attributed to Cooper’s jump. (FBI)

20:12 (08:12)  Oscillations reported…     Flt 305 advises they are getting some oscillations in the
cabin, Cooper must be doing something with the stairs.  (Anderson & Rataczak later explain this
report did not include mention of a ‘bump’.  Bump reported later to NWA by Rataczak “after we
discussed it for several minutes…”) (Cooper still on the plane or stairs)

20:15 (08:15)  SEA CNTR advises Portland Altimeter (Corresponding Sea Level Barometric
Pressure) is 30.03 inches of Hg. [This is important because it shows that at 20:15:56 they were
very near Portland.]

Time ??           Rataczak reports Cooper may have bailed to NWA on 131.8 MHz . (‘The oscillations
had stopped and we hadn’t experienced any further bumps, so we discussed it among ourselves
and we decided the ‘bump’ was when Cooper bailed so Bill (Rataczak) called it in to NWA’ – exact
time and position uncertain. ‘Nobody was taking notes or noting times and positions of any of
these events. Bill (Rataczak) thought (later reported) the bump we felt was about 5-10 minutes
after our last contact with Cooper at 8:05. I agreed with that but it could have been later. We
weren’t sure what had happened or if he was gone at all. Scott wanted to go back and look but
that got vetoed. Bill estimated (recalling) that he could see the lights of Portland-Vancouver
coming up, but we hadn’t crossed the Columbia yet. Bill was looking ahead and out his right
window. The test flight we conducted verified the link between the ‘bump’ and the stairs slamming
back up when weight was taken off the stairs. The Air Force guys and one NWA tech made that
connection pretty quickly. We weren’t sure what the ‘bump’ meant at the time, we weren’t sure
Cooper was gone, but the test flight confirmed what the ‘bump’ was. No, we weren’t anywhere
near the Washougal when the bump happened. As I said, we could see the lights of Portland-
Vancouver coming up. ‘ (H. Anderson, paraphased)

20:20 (08:20)     Flt Ops MSP request Go to 131.8 MHz.  (NWA channel)

20:20 (08:20)     Flt-Ops SEA advises Flt 305 is already on that frequency. Flt Ops MSP Advises we
are on the phone and will be talking with him shortly. 

Note*  Rataczak says the bump happened 5-10 mins after their last conversation with C at 8:05.
Rataczak’s bailout window is: 8:10-8:15. Anderson agrees but says it might have been slightly
later. What Anderson reveals is there was a delay in reporting, because they didn’t know what
had happened or what the bump meant for certain.  They discussed the matter before reporting
the socalled ‘bump.  But, this uncertainty as to precise time and location due to combined factors including delayed reporting, is reflected in the NWA-FBI search map. Indeed, including uncertainty in the NWA-FBI map confirms the fact there were "uncertainties" at play, in real time aboard flight 305 at the time. Otherwise, they could very easily have just issued a map of the primary search area and reduced the uncertainty the made-map conveys!


 

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Robert99:  I didn't mean "missing minutes" to be taken literally, but rather figuratively as an unaccounted for "time frame for jump exit."   The exact exit time for Cooper will never be known.  The pilots did not log the time of the bump, and the bump isn't an absolute indication of him leaving the aircraft.  There is speculation in play on Cooper's time of probable departure.  And the money find at Tina's Bar is important to the case, but limited in value if you believe that it is direct evidence of the flight path.  It is not.  There is a chance that the money find was a cunnard.  This case carries no ablsolutes.  Alignment of factual evidence does not produce a clear solution.  And if you think you know the solution, you still have a problem, because the factual evidence does not fall into place to bare out a clear conclusion.

Coopsnoop, let me post the below to give some meat to the discussion. What follows includes
paraphrased testimony recently received from H. Anderson, received by myself and two others.
People can cherry pick what I am posting, agree, disagree, complain, ... whatever. But I believe
what follows is an accurate portrait and paraphrase of testimony recently received, juxtaposed
with the timeline in the Transcripts -

Intro: The period of the ‘oscillations & bump’ was used to set the time and location of Cooper’s
jump.  These symptoms of a parachutist leaving the 727 via the rear door/stairs was
unanticipated by the flight crew at the time, therefore the crew was not sure what was going on
or it’s meaning. Tina had come forward  and advised ‘it appears Cooper is getting ready to
jump’.     

19:42 (07:42)   Flt 305 reports “14 NM out of SEA on Victor-23. Cooper is trying to get the door
down, Stew is with us, he cannot get the stairs down. We now have an aft stair light on.
19:54 (07:54)    Flt 305 reports: Miss Mucklow said he apparently has the knapsack around him
and [she] thinks he will jump.

19:54 (07:54)   Flt Ops MSP advised that they have a direct phone patch hooked up on 131.8
MHz. [Phone patch to NWA … indicates crew thinks Cooper about to bail, communication restricted
to NWA?]

Time ??           Cooper calls on intercom requests “Slow down! Stabilize the plane…”. Unreported in
TR but verified in crew testimony. Scott responds by slowing and stabilizing the aircraft so Cooper
can bail. Rataczak communicating events to NWA as they happen. (source: Rataczak & Anderson)

20:05 (08:05)   MSP-Flt Ops. Pilot reports that he has tried twice to contact Cooper unsuccessfully,
then he came on the PA system and said everything is OK.  (Cooper still on the plane)

20:11 (08:11)  Time generally attributed to Cooper’s jump. (FBI)

20:12 (08:12)  Oscillations reported…     Flt 305 advises they are getting some oscillations in the
cabin, Cooper must be doing something with the stairs.  (Anderson & Rataczak later explain this
report did not include mention of a ‘bump’.  Bump reported later to NWA by Rataczak “after we
discussed it for several minutes…”) (Cooper still on the plane or stairs)

20:15 (08:15)  SEA CNTR advises Portland Altimeter (Corresponding Sea Level Barometric
Pressure) is 30.03 inches of Hg. [This is important because it shows that at 20:15:56 they were
very near Portland.]

Time ??           Rataczak reports Cooper may have bailed to NWA on 131.8 MHz . (‘The oscillations
had stopped and we hadn’t experienced any further bumps, so we discussed it among ourselves
and we decided the ‘bump’ was when Cooper bailed so Bill (Rataczak) called it in to NWA’ – exact
time and position uncertain. ‘Nobody was taking notes or noting times and positions of any of
these events. Bill (Rataczak) thought (later reported) the bump we felt was about 5-10 minutes
after our last contact with Cooper at 8:05. I agreed with that but it could have been later. We
weren’t sure what had happened or if he was gone at all. Scott wanted to go back and look but
that got vetoed. Bill estimated (recalling) that he could see the lights of Portland-Vancouver
coming up, but we hadn’t crossed the Columbia yet. Bill was looking ahead and out his right
window. The test flight we conducted verified the link between the ‘bump’ and the stairs slamming
back up when weight was taken off the stairs. The Air Force guys and one NWA tech made that
connection pretty quickly. We weren’t sure what the ‘bump’ meant at the time, we weren’t sure
Cooper was gone, but the test flight confirmed what the ‘bump’ was. No, we weren’t anywhere
near the Washougal when the bump happened. As I said, we could see the lights of Portland-
Vancouver coming up. ‘ (H. Anderson, paraphased)

20:20 (08:20)     Flt Ops MSP request Go to 131.8 MHz.  (NWA channel)

20:20 (08:20)     Flt-Ops SEA advises Flt 305 is already on that frequency. Flt Ops MSP Advises we
are on the phone and will be talking with him shortly. 

Note*  Rataczak says the bump happened 5-10 mins after their last conversation with C at 8:05.
Rataczak’s bailout window is: 8:10-8:15. Anderson agrees but says it might have been slightly
later. What Anderson reveals is there was a delay in reporting, because they didn’t know what
had happened or what the bump meant for certain.  They discussed the matter before reporting
the socalled ‘bump.  But, this uncertainty as to precise time and location due to combined factors including delayed reporting, is reflected in the NWA-FBI search map. Indeed, including uncertainty in the NWA-FBI map confirms the fact there were "uncertainties" at play, in real time aboard flight 305 at the time. Otherwise, they could very easily have just issued a map of the primary search area and reduced the uncertainty the made-map conveys!


 

Here it is and it was posted under Flight Path.

Thanks - knew it looked familiar...

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Robert99:  I didn't mean "missing minutes" to be taken literally, but rather figuratively as an unaccounted for "time frame for jump exit."   The exact exit time for Cooper will never be known.  The pilots did not log the time of the bump, and the bump isn't an absolute indication of him leaving the aircraft.  There is speculation in play on Cooper's time of probable departure.  And the money find at Tina's Bar is important to the case, but limited in value if you believe that it is direct evidence of the flight path.  It is not.  There is a chance that the money find was a cunnard.  This case carries no ablsolutes.  Alignment of factual evidence does not produce a clear solution.  And if you think you know the solution, you still have a problem, because the factual evidence does not fall into place to bare out a clear conclusion.

Coopsnoop, let me post the below to give some meat to the discussion. What follows includes
paraphrased testimony recently received from H. Anderson, received by myself and two others.
People can cherry pick what I am posting, agree, disagree, complain, ... whatever. But I believe
what follows is an accurate portrait and paraphrase of testimony recently received, juxtaposed
with the timeline in the Transcripts -

Intro: The period of the ‘oscillations & bump’ was used to set the time and location of Cooper’s
jump.  These symptoms of a parachutist leaving the 727 via the rear door/stairs was
unanticipated by the flight crew at the time, therefore the crew was not sure what was going on
or it’s meaning. Tina had come forward  and advised ‘it appears Cooper is getting ready to
jump’.     

19:42 (07:42)   Flt 305 reports “14 NM out of SEA on Victor-23. Cooper is trying to get the door
down, Stew is with us, he cannot get the stairs down. We now have an aft stair light on.
19:54 (07:54)    Flt 305 reports: Miss Mucklow said he apparently has the knapsack around him
and [she] thinks he will jump.

19:54 (07:54)   Flt Ops MSP advised that they have a direct phone patch hooked up on 131.8
MHz. [Phone patch to NWA … indicates crew thinks Cooper about to bail, communication restricted
to NWA?]

Time ??           Cooper calls on intercom requests “Slow down! Stabilize the plane…”. Unreported in
TR but verified in crew testimony. Scott responds by slowing and stabilizing the aircraft so Cooper
can bail. Rataczak communicating events to NWA as they happen. (source: Rataczak & Anderson)

20:05 (08:05)   MSP-Flt Ops. Pilot reports that he has tried twice to contact Cooper unsuccessfully,
then he came on the PA system and said everything is OK.  (Cooper still on the plane)

20:11 (08:11)  Time generally attributed to Cooper’s jump. (FBI)

20:12 (08:12)  Oscillations reported…     Flt 305 advises they are getting some oscillations in the
cabin, Cooper must be doing something with the stairs.  (Anderson & Rataczak later explain this
report did not include mention of a ‘bump’.  Bump reported later to NWA by Rataczak “after we
discussed it for several minutes…”) (Cooper still on the plane or stairs)

20:15 (08:15)  SEA CNTR advises Portland Altimeter (Corresponding Sea Level Barometric
Pressure) is 30.03 inches of Hg. [This is important because it shows that at 20:15:56 they were
very near Portland.]

Time ??           Rataczak reports Cooper may have bailed to NWA on 131.8 MHz . (‘The oscillations
had stopped and we hadn’t experienced any further bumps, so we discussed it among ourselves
and we decided the ‘bump’ was when Cooper bailed so Bill (Rataczak) called it in to NWA’ – exact
time and position uncertain. ‘Nobody was taking notes or noting times and positions of any of
these events. Bill (Rataczak) thought (later reported) the bump we felt was about 5-10 minutes
after our last contact with Cooper at 8:05. I agreed with that but it could have been later. We
weren’t sure what had happened or if he was gone at all. Scott wanted to go back and look but
that got vetoed. Bill estimated (recalling) that he could see the lights of Portland-Vancouver
coming up, but we hadn’t crossed the Columbia yet. Bill was looking ahead and out his right
window. The test flight we conducted verified the link between the ‘bump’ and the stairs slamming
back up when weight was taken off the stairs. The Air Force guys and one NWA tech made that
connection pretty quickly. We weren’t sure what the ‘bump’ meant at the time, we weren’t sure
Cooper was gone, but the test flight confirmed what the ‘bump’ was. No, we weren’t anywhere
near the Washougal when the bump happened. As I said, we could see the lights of Portland-
Vancouver coming up. ‘ (H. Anderson, paraphased)

20:20 (08:20)     Flt Ops MSP request Go to 131.8 MHz.  (NWA channel)

20:20 (08:20)     Flt-Ops SEA advises Flt 305 is already on that frequency. Flt Ops MSP Advises we
are on the phone and will be talking with him shortly. 

Note*  Rataczak says the bump happened 5-10 mins after their last conversation with C at 8:05.
Rataczak’s bailout window is: 8:10-8:15. Anderson agrees but says it might have been slightly
later. What Anderson reveals is there was a delay in reporting, because they didn’t know what
had happened or what the bump meant for certain.  They discussed the matter before reporting
the socalled ‘bump.  But, this uncertainty as to precise time and location due to combined factors including delayed reporting, is reflected in the NWA-FBI search map. Indeed, including uncertainty in the NWA-FBI map confirms the fact there were "uncertainties" at play, in real time aboard flight 305 at the time. Otherwise, they could very easily have just issued a map of the primary search area and reduced the uncertainty the made-map conveys!


 

Here it is and it was posted under Flight Path.

Thanks - knew it looked familiar...

Note in the second "Time ??" the sentence:  "Bill was looking ahead and out his right window."  If he was looking ahead, it had to toward the nose of the aircraft and not off toward the right wing tip.

cockpit view -

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

cockpit view -

That picture is of a Boeing 727 test flight crew.  The pilot in the left seat is Lew Wallick who was the 727 project pilot, he made the first flight and flew practically all the tests that are of interest to the Cooper matter.

Note on the right side of the picture that there is a window directly in front of the co-pilot.  Then there is one to the right side of the co-pilot.  And a third window between the co-pilot and the flight engineer station and it is partly open in this picture.

I think the “ but we hadn’t crossed the Columbia yet “ to be the most interesting ! If the bump occurred prior to the plane crossing the Columbia, how is the Tina Bar no pull theory possible ?

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

cockpit view -

That picture is of a Boeing 727 test flight crew.  The pilot in the left seat is Lew Wallick who was the 727 project pilot, he made the first flight and flew practically all the tests that are of interest to the Cooper matter.

Note on the right side of the picture that there is a window directly in front of the co-pilot.  Then there is one to the right side of the co-pilot.  And a third window between the co-pilot and the flight engineer station and it is partly open in this picture.

I think the “ but we hadn’t crossed the Columbia yet “ to be the most interesting ! If the bump occurred prior to the plane crossing the Columbia, how is the Tina Bar no pull theory possible ?

Kermit, Language is a strange thing isn't it.  Have you ever been to Tina Bar?  Have you taken a good look at Tina Bar on a map?  I believe you have said that you were a hunter and fisherman.  If so, do you know how to use a simple magnetic compass?  And are you familiar with aeronautical charts and air traffic control operations?

You will probably claim that I am trying to toot my own horn, but you might learn something if you take even a casual glance at the flight path thread on which I discuss these matters at great length.  The information is already there, but you are just not interested in doing your homework.  And since you don't like to do your homework, I am not going to explain to you for the 100th time about the no-pull at Tina Bar.  All you have to do is to point your mouse to that thread and start reading.