Author Topic: Flight Path And Related Issues  (Read 231899 times)

Offline georger

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2985 on: May 07, 2020, 01:28:20 AM »
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So, if you have followed any of the above a smart person would ask: what do any of these 13 "loci" tell about Cooper's physical traits etc? That is where the rubber meets the road. The answers to that must wait until I am free to think and compose something. But Google any of these loci to make your own estimates! Good luck Keep in mind we dont know how many of these loci the FBI lab has identified .. to qualify as a Partial. Could be 7, 11, but must be at least 5.   ;)

 CSF1PO
    FGA
    THO1
    TPOX
    VWA
    D3S1358
    D5S818
    D7S820
    D8S1179
    D13S317
    D16S539
    D18S51
    D21S11

continuing... let's pause. Most people dont care!

Note: the Original CODIS Core Loci, required from October 1998 until December 31, 2016, relied on and tested for 13 loci pictured above. The 13 loci system was updated: Effective January 1, 2017, the CODIS Core Loci will include 20 loci.  The only known FBI Codis13 profile for Cooper was a 13 loci profile, which reportedly yielded a partial profile at best, according to Galen Cook.  So, was the Cooper test updated effective Jan 1, 2017 to test for the larger 20 loci sample? That's an open question which may rely on the strength of the old Codis-13 "partial" profile the FBI lab has. But, since the FBI closed the Cooper case in 2016 there is no apparent need for an updated 20-loci test! The FBI may have elected not to try for new tests under the newer CODIS system ? Only the FBI could clarify that issue. As a footnote to all of this: the FBI moved to a 20-loci test in 2017 to bring its testing platform up to International standards, since the European and Canadian International system has relied on a 23-loci test platform for years.

In addition, Galen Cook and a few select others 'claim' to know 'quite a lot' about the "partial" dna profile the FBI has for DB Cooper and the extensive repetitious sampling that was required to obtain even a partial result! Cook paints a very bleak picture based on conversations he says he has had with SA Curtis Eng.. Rumor has it a prodigious effort was required with repeated tests conducted, in order to get any result! Maybe some day Cook will share with the rest of the world what he knows about Cooper's Partial dna profile and the story behind it ... representing very arduous efforts with virtually useless results ! ?

It needs to be said that it is also to the advantage of anyone peddling a suspect to maintain that the FBI's partial profile for Cooper is worthless ... and cannot even exclude people! This is called "nullification" - a well known defense strategy in the legal system.

 :chr2: 
« Last Edit: May 07, 2020, 02:05:21 AM by georger »
 
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Offline EU

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2986 on: May 07, 2020, 11:18:28 AM »
The partial DNA profile the FBI has can do one thing only: Exclude suspects.

It cannot definitively point to DBC and it cannot tell us anything about DBC's heritage or any other such traits.
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Offline georger

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2987 on: May 07, 2020, 02:14:26 PM »
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The partial DNA profile the FBI has can do one thing only: Exclude suspects.

It cannot definitively point to DBC and it cannot tell us anything about DBC's heritage or any other such traits.

Yes, I found your earlier news article/interview on the subject. You are not even conversant in these matters - you are simply parroting what others have said or told you!

How many loci has the FBI identified and what are they? Can you supply any written labs reports?

What you are saying depends completely on the nature of the Partial(s) the FBI has. See this from the FBI's own page on Partials.

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28. What is a partial match at NDIS?
A: Occasionally a partial match between a forensic profile and an offender profile is observed during a routine NDIS database search. The FBI defines a partial match as a moderate stringency candidate match between two single source profiles having at each locus all of the alleles of one sample represented in the other sample (see illustration below). A “partial match” is not an exact match of the two profiles. When evaluating whether a candidate match is viable and should be processed through to confirmation, a forensic scientist may discover that the candidate offender profile is, in fact, excluded as the possible source of the profile obtained from crime scene evidence. Because of a similarity in alleles between the forensic unknown and the candidate offender profile, the scientist may conclude that a close biological relative of the offender may be the source of the forensic unknown.
 
The following illustrates a hypothetical partial match as seen in the Scientific Working Group on DNA Analysis Methods (SWGDAM) Recommendations to the FBI Director on the “Interim Plan for the Release of Information in the Event of a ‘Partial Match’ at NDIS” at You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login (with correction at You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login).
 
Locus   Forensic Unknown   Candidate Offender   Match Stringency
D8S1179   13   13, 14   Moderate
D21S11   28, 31.2   28, 31.2   High
D7S820   12   10, 12   Moderate
D7S820   10, 12   10   Moderate
D3S1358   15, 17   15, 17   High
TH01   8   7, 8   Moderate
D13S317   9, 12   9   Moderate
D16S539   11, 12   12   Moderate
VWA   17   15, 17   Moderate
TPOX   8, 11   8   Moderate
D18S51   24   16, 24   Moderate
D5S818   9, 12   12   Moderate
FGA   24, 25   24, 25   High

« Last Edit: May 07, 2020, 02:36:11 PM by georger »
 

Offline EU

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2988 on: May 07, 2020, 02:35:32 PM »
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The partial DNA profile the FBI has can do one thing only: Exclude suspects.

It cannot definitively point to DBC and it cannot tell us anything about DBC's heritage or any other such traits.

Yes, I found your earlier article/interview on the subject. You are not even conversant in these matters - you are simply parroting what others have said or told you!

How many loci has the FBI identified and what are they? Can you supply any written labs reports?

What you are saying depends completely on the nature of the Partial(s) the FBI has.

You are the one not conversant in these matters. I know precisely how many loci the FBI identified and how many they were attempting to identify. Believe it or not GEORGER, there are people actually doing a lot of work on this case who know a lot more than you think. Of course, there are others who speak in tongues and parables and thrive on giving people $#!+.
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Offline georger

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2989 on: May 07, 2020, 02:40:03 PM »
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The partial DNA profile the FBI has can do one thing only: Exclude suspects.

It cannot definitively point to DBC and it cannot tell us anything about DBC's heritage or any other such traits.

Yes, I found your earlier article/interview on the subject. You are not even conversant in these matters - you are simply parroting what others have said or told you!

How many loci has the FBI identified and what are they? Can you supply any written labs reports?

What you are saying depends completely on the nature of the Partial(s) the FBI has.

You are the one not conversant in these matters. I know precisely how many loci the FBI identified and how many they were attempting to identify. Believe it or not GEORGER, there are people actually doing a lot of work on this case who know a lot more than you think. Of course, there are others who speak in tongues and parables and thrive on giving people $#!+.

I see, so 30+ years in this field does not qualify me?

I know precisely how many loci the FBI identified and how many they were attempting to identify.

So STOP the bullshit and High Stakes Holdem Politics and just tell us what you know, for a change!  WHAT LOCI HAS THE FBI IDENTIFIED ACCORDING TO YOU! ?

I will pass this on to geneticists I used to work with. These are the people who invented the kits and methods the FBI uses.  Your contribution to this field is what?   

* I thot you were here to work on the Cooper case! Apparently you are here for Politics and a Takeover ? With your superior knowledge ;) you claim are you going to help or not?  I can connect you in thirty seconds to actual researchers in the field ... if you like ... so put up or ....

You are out of your element here, bud! I suggest you revise your pitch and your approach! 

Should we just add your authoritative BS to Galen Cook's claims?    Are you here to work on the Cooper case or what! ?
« Last Edit: May 07, 2020, 02:58:36 PM by georger »
 

Offline EU

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2990 on: May 07, 2020, 03:14:19 PM »
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You are out of your element here, bud! I suggest you revise your pitch and your approach! 


I'm not your "bud" and never will be your "bud." I do not like people like you.

Moreover, I could care less what you and others like you know or think that I know or don't know.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

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Offline georger

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2991 on: May 07, 2020, 03:19:29 PM »
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You are out of your element here, bud! I suggest you revise your pitch and your approach! 


I'm not your "bud" and never will be your "bud." I do not like people like you.

Moreover, I could care less what you and others like you know or think that I know or don't know.

Mister Ulis, long time DB Cooper Researcher and film maker/politician running for office and High Stake Holdem TV Star .......... and book writer?

Your statement is: I know precisely how many loci the FBI identified and how many they were attempting to identify...

How many DB Cooper loci has the FBI identified, and what are they?            You either know or you are lying.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2020, 03:20:47 PM by georger »
 

Offline EU

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2992 on: May 07, 2020, 03:23:51 PM »
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You either know or you are lying.

You are absolutely right.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

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Offline georger

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2993 on: May 07, 2020, 03:32:41 PM »
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You either know or you are lying.

You are absolutely right.

More smarm from the guy. I will take it you dont even know what you are talking about.  Good luck with your DB Cooper political campaign takeover.

Could it be the FBI only has identified 5 loci out of 13? And they might be:

DNA marker    Mother    Child    Alleged father
D21S11    28, 30    28, 31.2    29, 31.2
D7S820    9, 10    10, 11    11, 12
TH01    6, 9.3    9, 9.3    8, 9
D13S317    10, 12    12, 13    11, 13
D19S433    14, 16.2    14, 15    14.2, 15

Which contrary to Mr. Ulis' information is precisely those loci needed to run a familial trace!   I dont know but Ulis claims to know.

This isnt some popularity contest but actual science. Either Ulis knows what he's talking about or he is playing games and FOS.

Since this is all an 'Event Sociologique' Ulis has devised ......... you decide.  And be prepared to live with the results!     

« Last Edit: May 07, 2020, 03:38:11 PM by georger »
 

Offline georger

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2994 on: May 07, 2020, 03:49:57 PM »
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You either know or you are lying.

You are absolutely right.

More smarm from the guy. I will take it you dont even know what you are talking about.  Good luck with your DB Cooper political campaign takeover.

Could it be the FBI only has identified 5 loci out of 13? And they might be:

DNA marker    Mother    Child    Alleged father
D21S11    28, 30    28, 31.2    29, 31.2
D7S820    9, 10    10, 11    11, 12
TH01    6, 9.3    9, 9.3    8, 9
D13S317    10, 12    12, 13    11, 13
D19S433    14, 16.2    14, 15    14.2, 15

Which contrary to Mr. Ulis' information is precisely those loci needed to run a familial trace!   I dont know but Ulis claims to know.

This isnt some popularity contest but actual science. Either Ulis knows what he's talking about or he is playing games and FOS.

Since this is all an 'Event Sociologique' Ulis has devised ......... you decide.  And be prepared to live with the results!   

This reminds me a lot of what we went through with Galen Cook and his supposed privileged information about the dna FBI has supposedly been able to extract from three organic samples on the tie - but Cook would never give any details he said SA Eng had given him! 

So WTF is going on here!  Why is the FBI revealing is sacred genetic evidence about DB Cooper to RANK AMATEURS who dont know the difference between a nucleic acid and 49 Chevy ! ?  It defies belief!

Somebody is playing games here, or passing a line of Cooper bullshit 5000 miles long, the public can never recover from! It gives the word EXTORTION a brand new meaning!     The hijacking of ... the hijacking ?

My advice is: dont speculate about this. Dont believe anything any amateur Cooper speculator-opportunist says ... wait for the FBI to release what they have which could take years, or never. Listen to only credible qualified people with credentials so far as Cooper dna is concerned. Anything else is a media and internet driven fraud. Especially during the dangerous time we are all living in.

There are no credible reports that the Arc of the Covenant has actually been found!   :nono:
 
« Last Edit: May 07, 2020, 04:03:15 PM by georger »
 

Offline georger

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2995 on: May 08, 2020, 12:39:24 AM »
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The partial DNA profile the FBI has can do one thing only: Exclude suspects.

It (the FBI Cooper profile) cannot definitively point to DBC and it cannot tell us anything about DBC's heritage or any other such traits.

Are you sure of your facts you state above, Dr. Ulis?

I ask because the FBI DNA page suggests a different interpretation, and ... we have three known cases of the FBI using its partial profile to compare with suspects .... which contradicts your statements above!  I mean if you are going to give statements/interviews to newspapers about these matters, shouldn't you at least have some working knowledge of these matters and know what you are talking about? Apparently not!

You state: " it cannot tell us anything about DBC's heritage". 

Quoting Agent Gutt: ""The DNA that they were able to extract from uncle L.D. Cooper's daughter, who was born after the fact, did not match the partial sample of DNA that we have in our files for DB Cooper," Gutt said."

So here is a clear cut instance of the FBI lab using their DB Cooper partial profile and comparing it to FAMILIAL DNA in Marla's family, and LD Cooper's daughter. That, Mr Ulis, is heritage ie familial! Moreover, that comparison that was done requires the presence of at least five core loci in the two samples being compared, before any comparison can be made. If true, that is a revelation about the FBI's DB Cooper partial profile. These comparisons rely on standard lab protocols being followed between two standardised samples each with a common set of the same five core loci!   (see the FBI CODIS HERITAGE fact sheet!)       

How do you explain that?

If the partial on file can be compared to a relative of a suspect (heritage dna ... familial dna), why could it not be used to compare to anyone's relative or familial line including Cooper's own familial line? The answer is: it has already been done on Marla's relative's familial line....          duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

I dont expect you to know how it can be done because you dont know squat about these matters in spite of your running around preaching about these matters to news outlets.... I will only say the answer is right on the FBI's own face page in their discussion about Loci:  (Cod13, Cod20, Ancestral loci, etc) 

Today we use "partial profiles" to compare unwanted children and potential parents, in every State in this country, for the assessment of child support claims! It appears the FBI used the same techniques using the same core loci to compare their Cooper partial to Marla's relative, testing if he was related to DB Cooper. The techniques are the same and the loci needed are the same. That probably means we now have five core loci in the DB Cooper partial profile. Do you want me to state them and render a judgement about what each means? (There is actually more going on here than I have stated but let's leave that until another time.)

Your turn Dr. Ulis-Elvis!  :o 

Again: here is the FBI Codis Fact Sheet Im using:  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login   


 
« Last Edit: May 08, 2020, 01:09:09 AM by georger »
 

Offline EU

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2996 on: May 08, 2020, 01:21:06 AM »
Let me help you with this GEORGER, expert of all things...

...heritage meaning...Latin, Italian, Middle Eastern, etc...

...other traits meaning...blue eyes, black hair, aversion to garlic, etc...

Stop whining about everyone and everything.

EU (Elvis) out!
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Offline georger

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2997 on: May 08, 2020, 02:11:06 AM »
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Let me help you with this GEORGER, expert of all things...

...heritage meaning...Latin, Italian, Middle Eastern, etc...

...other traits meaning...blue eyes, black hair, aversion to garlic, etc...

Stop whining about everyone and everything.

EU (Elvis) out!

Well once again you're OFF TOPIC.  Get your attitude fixed! :D

Heritage and paternity genetic testing, has its roots in the early 1990s, as I recall. CODIS-13 had been established in October 1998. Integrated DNA of Iowa City began making test kits and oligos for Federal use and university research around the same time. The Human Genome Project took hold about 1989 (Craig Venter) and that would develop into an offshoot company named "23 & Me" which still exists today. During the 1990s  Universal Genetics Inc began consultations with a number of people proposing standards for commercial DNA paternity testing. The core loci systems established during that era have stayed pretty much the backbone of testing in America, until now.

That means that the testing of LD Cooper's relative in 2011 occurred under those protocols. The testing of LD's daughter is what allows us to make an intelligent guess about five core loci the FBI must have in their Cooper partial ... without which outside comparison testing might not have been done. I mean, the FBI and other agencies have a funny habit of sticking to statistically proven protocols which have standing in Courts of Law - the horse doesn't usually wander too far from the barn in these matters! It's very likely the FBI Lab used established protocols and loci in comparing LD's daughter's sample to their DB Cooper partial. That requires comparing specific loci in both samples, plus D19S433.

Spare us your disruptive smarm, Elvis!       :))
« Last Edit: May 08, 2020, 05:06:07 AM by georger »
 

Offline georger

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2998 on: May 08, 2020, 04:56:09 AM »
Nobody should be surprised when suspect peddlers DONT WANT Cooper's genome known or explored!

I mean why destroy a free ride to fame and news coverage! Belittle anyone trying to open that box. Take the high road and claim you know more than they do. Claim they are trouble makers. Who cares about the actual case at issue!

It works every time!   :congrats:
 
« Last Edit: May 08, 2020, 05:09:26 AM by georger »
 

Offline Unsurelock

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2999 on: May 08, 2020, 10:45:43 AM »
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Nobody should be surprised when suspect peddlers DONT WANT Cooper's genome known or explored!

I mean why destroy a free ride to fame and news coverage! Belittle anyone trying to open that box. Take the high road and claim you know more than they do. Claim they are trouble makers. Who cares about the actual case at issue!

It works every time!   :congrats:

Georger, except for the term "suspect peddler," you just described yourself.