Author Topic: Flight Path And Related Issues  (Read 231926 times)

Offline dudeman17

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 46
  • Thanked: 14 times
Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2970 on: May 05, 2020, 04:22:58 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
After all, how many people have any idea where Yuma is?

Military parachutists. Not sure how far back it goes, but Yuma has been a well established training ground for military jumpers as long as I've been aware of it. (I started in '79)
 

Offline Robert99

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 863
  • Thanked: 99 times
Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2971 on: May 05, 2020, 04:35:43 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Do you have a source for Cooper making any suggestions for a refueling stops or for any stops before getting to Mexico?  The airliner could not have made it to Phoenix non-stop from Seattle in the configuration Cooper specified.  In fact, it wasn't until the airliner was in the Portland area that they knew they could make it to Reno non-stop. 

In 1971, it was Douglas that had a flight test facility at Yuma so there was no Boeing connection at that time.  Of course, Douglas was merged into Boeing at a later date.

The Phoenix and Yuma suggestions are in the FBI files, off the top of my head not sure where. It's clear from these files that Cooper suggested Phoenix. It's a little hazy as to how Yuma entered the conversation. It may have been Cooper saying the he knew the jet could make it to Yuma or something similar.

Boeing tested at Edwards (I believe) with the 727 and may have flown to other regional areas as part of the Edwards testing--even if only as an emergency landing spot if a problem arrived. And yes, Boeing started actively testing in Yuma in the 80's if I'm not mistaken even though Douglas was already there.

Again, I have not seen any evidence that Cooper suggested any location except Mexico.  But Cooper did agree to land at Reno after the flight crew explained the range problem to him.  The 727 did visit, repeat visit, other locations during its testing.  For instance, cold weather testing was probably done in Alaska and some one of the test aircraft took advantage of some unusual weather conditions and did some testing in high crosswinds in New Mexico.  But this doesn't mean that they were in these locations for more than a few days.  That is, no permanent facilities there.

Some of the 777 hot weather testing was done at Sky Harbor in Phoenix.  The 777 test aircraft, with just its green paint primer on, was parked at the business terminal at Sky Harbor on a really hot day and stayed there until it was thoroughly heat soaked.  It had to be parked on steel plates to keep the wheels from sinking into the blacktop.

Boeing and Douglas merged on August 1, 1997, almost 26 years after the hijacking.
 

Offline georger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2227
  • Thanked: 303 times
Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2972 on: May 05, 2020, 05:39:17 PM »
Alice may have seen the meals and maps in a box that Tina carried onboard and assumed that Cooper asked for them.  But there were only four crew meals and not one for Cooper.

When Cooper stated that he wanted to go to Mexico, Al Lee would automatically have started gathering the necessary flight maps, approach plates, and such without being asked.  He included four meals for his crew because he knew they hadn't eaten in several hours and still had an unknown number of hours to go.  Al Lee was just taking care of his NWA crew.


I think that's very solid.

Next thing we will be hearing - is Cooper asked for maps to    Nicaragua!  Or to Hahneman's back door!  ;)

And the maps came in "packets with paper straps" and had termite damage too ?  :D    It's only logical!
« Last Edit: May 05, 2020, 05:42:05 PM by georger »
 

Offline fcastle866

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 177
  • Thanked: 57 times
Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2973 on: May 05, 2020, 05:59:24 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
McCoy attempted to confuse the authorities as to his destination, giving them a list of cities to fly over. I'm only exploring what Cooper's Arizona suggestion could have been based on.

The obvious question then becomes: If DBC was planning to jump near Phoenix, why then did he jump near Vancouver?

Possibly along these lines is one of his requests.  According to Alice he asked for the money, parachutes, crew meals, fuel, and maps.  But she forgot what type of maps he asked for.  This seems to have all happened before the pilots told him they could not get to Mexico City and ended up with Reno. Did the maps indicate something of use for the investigation?  The map request seems to be something you would not forget.

There is no record of Cooper actually asking for any maps or crew meals.  The flight crew needed information as to where Cooper wanted to go so they could get the appropriate maps.  Upon learning that Cooper wanted to go to Mexico, Al Lee got together as many maps as he could for such a Seattle to Mexico flight and included four crew meals apparently without being asked and not including one for Cooper.

A flight from Seattle to Mexico or Reno to Mexico would not pass anywhere near Phoenix.  Cooper did not specify any flight path to get to Mexico.  He only agreed to head to Reno after the flight crew suggested it.

Robert: Page 161 to 163 in Martin Andrade's book has a FBI debrief with Alice Hancock.  She states in this that he asked for maps and meals.  I'd have to do some looking through files to see what file that actually comes from, or ask someone who has cataloged the 302's to see if it is in there.

Alice said he asked for maps and meals.  Granted she did not have a lot of contact with Cooper, so it may have been her impression and may not have actually happened.

Part of his gentleman persona has come from the meal request.

Part of his gentleman persona has come from the meal request.

Really! How so?  You mean like feeding prisoners in jails? Compassion.

Did Cooper own a tux and attend the opera? Which opera?

Did Cooper wash his feet?   Did Hancock ask?

Georger: Pleasant as always, even in a pandemic.  Where did DB Cooper's gentleman persona come from then? The way he dressed, the way he talked, offering a tip to the stews?  All of that helped.  Are you saying that the crew meals did not play a role in establishing that persona through the years?  If people think he asked for meals, and that has been referenced through the years, then it played a role in building the gentleman persona.

Whether or not he was a gentleman is debatable, but there are those who believe it.

From Citizen Sleuths:  "While in the air, he opened his brief case showing a bomb to the flight attendant and hijacked the plane. The plane landed in Seattle where he demanded 200K in cash, four parachutes and food for the crew before releasing all the passengers"

Weren't you a Citizen Sleuth Georger? Regardless, there are a lot of names on that list.

I don't post BS here, it's all because I'm curious.  Take a nap or pills or something. 
 

Offline Unsurelock

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 346
  • Thanked: 39 times
Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2974 on: May 05, 2020, 07:07:18 PM »
Cooper himself recommended Phoenix and Yuma. See here: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
 

Offline georger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2227
  • Thanked: 303 times
Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2975 on: May 05, 2020, 11:30:25 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Cooper himself recommended Phoenix and Yuma. See here: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Yes. There was debate btwn Snowmman and FLYJACK about this clear back in 2018?  Proving nothing ever gets resolved between COMPETITORS in Cooper cultland. What matters is the internet competition ......... case left on the battle field of personal competition! 
« Last Edit: May 06, 2020, 12:11:46 AM by georger »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3753
  • Thanked: 248 times
    • The Mountain News
Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2976 on: May 06, 2020, 03:21:42 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

...Tina is the one who carried everything onto the airplane in Seattle....


Not according to the passengers I've spoken with about the matter. Larry Finegold, the younger MacPherson, and Jack Almstad told me that two men brought the money onboard and Tina got from them at the forward door, then carried it back to Cooper in the rear.

Once the passengers were released, Tina made three trips down to Al Lee and brought the four parachutes aboard, as I understand her subsequent actions regarding the ransom exchange.

Ah, if only Tina would talk to us.... sigh...

...and I wonder if she would tell us the truth, and how many of us would believe her? Some would. Some not, I suppose.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2020, 03:23:21 AM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

Offline Parrotheadvol

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 420
  • Thanked: 46 times
Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2977 on: May 06, 2020, 09:55:58 AM »
Didn't Tina say that she went out to get the money? I saw this on the case closed doc, but I don't remember if it was the 2016 interview, or if it was footage of the press conference from right after the hijacking. But I thought at some point she said something like that. I'll go back and look when I get a chance.
 

Offline EU

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1482
  • Thanked: 226 times
    • DB  Cooper: The Definitive Investigation of Sheridan Peterson
Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2978 on: May 06, 2020, 10:32:45 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Georger: Pleasant as always, even in a pandemic.  Where did DB Cooper's gentleman persona come from then? The way he dressed, the way he talked, offering a tip to the stews?  All of that helped.  Are you saying that the crew meals did not play a role in establishing that persona through the years?  If people think he asked for meals, and that has been referenced through the years, then it played a role in building the gentleman persona.

Whether or not he was a gentleman is debatable, but there are those who believe it.

From Citizen Sleuths:  "While in the air, he opened his brief case showing a bomb to the flight attendant and hijacked the plane. The plane landed in Seattle where he demanded 200K in cash, four parachutes and food for the crew before releasing all the passengers"

Weren't you a Citizen Sleuth Georger? Regardless, there are a lot of names on that list.

I don't post BS here, it's all because I'm curious.  Take a nap or pills or something.

fcastle866 is right about this...that is, a gentleman persona was developed by virtue of DBC's appearance and manners.

Specifically, the suit and tie, the bourbon and 7, the fact that Tina stated during the press conference that DBC was courteous, and the fact that even during firmer moments DBC didn't say "no funny stuff or I'll blow you and everyone else to F'ing smitherines." Rather, DBC spoke with a euphemism and said he would "do the job."

These are subtle, but important, points in my mind inasmuch as they appear to suggest that DBC was out of his element. In other words, not a hardened, or career, criminal.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

RFK
 

Offline georger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2227
  • Thanked: 303 times
Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2979 on: May 06, 2020, 02:31:22 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Georger: Pleasant as always, even in a pandemic.  Where did DB Cooper's gentleman persona come from then? The way he dressed, the way he talked, offering a tip to the stews?  All of that helped.  Are you saying that the crew meals did not play a role in establishing that persona through the years?  If people think he asked for meals, and that has been referenced through the years, then it played a role in building the gentleman persona.

Whether or not he was a gentleman is debatable, but there are those who believe it.

From Citizen Sleuths:  "While in the air, he opened his brief case showing a bomb to the flight attendant and hijacked the plane. The plane landed in Seattle where he demanded 200K in cash, four parachutes and food for the crew before releasing all the passengers"

Weren't you a Citizen Sleuth Georger? Regardless, there are a lot of names on that list.

I don't post BS here, it's all because I'm curious.  Take a nap or pills or something.

fcastle866 is right about this...that is, a gentleman persona was developed by virtue of DBC's appearance and manners.

Specifically, the suit and tie, the bourbon and 7, the fact that Tina stated during the press conference that DBC was courteous, and the fact that even during firmer moments DBC didn't say "no funny stuff or I'll blow you and everyone else to F'ing smitherines." Rather, DBC spoke with a euphemism and said he would "do the job."

These are subtle, but important, points in my mind inasmuch as they appear to suggest that DBC was out of his element. In other words, not a hardened, or career, criminal.

I try not to waste my time on such 'nonsense'.

I seriously doubt Cooper's identity (his whole life and personality) is summed up by his hijacking. We dont know who he was! That's the point!   

We dont know if he was a nice guy, a mean guy, a lazy guy, a wealthy guy, a poor guy, a truthful guy etc, or a candlestick maker .... in the rest of his life.

To assert that we 'know Cooper' based on the hijacking alone is pure bunk. It's lazy stereotyping and its based on what socalled facts? There are no facts that we can be confident of. I can't and I am a former licensed psychologist! Any judgement about Cooper is going to be based on an incomplete sampling. His behavior during the hijacking may very well not define him!

Attempts to define the Unabomber went through countless revisions and failed for years. Fitzgerald etal finally took a different approach concentrating on the bomber's written material (the bomber's Ideolect).  That approach connected dots fairly quickly with the public's help.

Gentleman Persona is meaningless! It's a journalistic invention, and a figment. It may have no efficacy when compared to the actual hijacker and his life and personality. So far as anyone knows Cooper never wrote a manifesto to compare anything with!

There is a partial dna profile for the guy I guess, but the FBI wont release it! And there is at least one FBI guy who wants Cooper found by investigators who have their hands tied behind their backs talking 'gentleman persona' .... and nothing else. It's ludicrous on its face!     

   
 

Offline georger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2227
  • Thanked: 303 times
Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2980 on: May 06, 2020, 03:46:54 PM »
DB Cooper partial dna profile:

A full CODIS-13 DNA profile of a suspect means that tests have identified at least 13 loci of a suspect to a statistically reliable level to be used in Court.

A “partial CODIS-13 DNA match” means a full CODIS DNA profile of a suspect is lacking, but some number of loci have been identified to a statistically reliable level, after x-number of tests. 

A “partial CODIS-13 DNA match” means that a suspect can only be  “excluded.” from a list of suspects, but not “included” to a high degree of accuracy needed to prosecute.

One problem is, the FBI has not defined how many loci are necessary for a “partial DNA match” to allow a prosecutor to follow the pathway to a “familial” partial DNA match, to ultimately obtaining a full profile of some relation who may be the actual Cooper.

And in the Cooper sample, the FBI has not told us how many loci they have identified in their Partial profile, and what those loci are. Without that information we are unable to even speculate about DB Cooper’s physical traits or compare him to any other supposed suspect! 
(above 5 paragraphs written by Georger)

See: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login            From this FBI fact sheet, read below:

19. What are the CODIS core loci?
Effective January 1, 2017, the CODIS Core Loci include the following 20 loci:

    CSF1PO
    FGA
    THO1
    TPOX
    VWA
    D3S1358
    D5S818
    D7S820
    D8S1179
    D13S317
    D16S539
    D18S51
    D21S11
    D1S1656
    D2S441
    D2S1338
    D10S1248
    D12S391
    D19S433
    D22S1045

The Original CODIS Core Loci, required from October 1998 until December 31, 2016, included the following 13 loci:  These are the loci tested for in the Cooper case as per our last information, which yielded a Partial result after at least 3 tests -

    CSF1PO
    FGA
    THO1
    TPOX
    VWA
    D3S1358
    D5S818
    D7S820
    D8S1179
    D13S317
    D16S539
    D18S51
    D21S11
« Last Edit: May 06, 2020, 04:02:09 PM by georger »
 

Offline georger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2227
  • Thanked: 303 times
Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2981 on: May 06, 2020, 03:54:34 PM »
From this url we find Partial Match explained, below: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

28. What is a partial match at NDIS?
A: Occasionally a partial match between a forensic profile and an offender profile is observed during a routine NDIS database search. The FBI defines a partial match as a moderate stringency candidate match between two single source profiles having at each locus all of the alleles of one sample represented in the other sample (see illustration below). A “partial match” is not an exact match of the two profiles. When evaluating whether a candidate match is viable and should be processed through to confirmation, a forensic scientist may discover that the candidate offender profile is, in fact, excluded as the possible source of the profile obtained from crime scene evidence. Because of a similarity in alleles between the forensic unknown and the candidate offender profile, the scientist may conclude that a close biological relative of the offender may be the source of the forensic unknown.
 
The following illustrates a hypothetical partial match as seen in the Scientific Working Group on DNA Analysis Methods (SWGDAM) Recommendations to the FBI Director on the “Interim Plan for the Release of Information in the Event of a ‘Partial Match’ at NDIS” at You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login (with correction at You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login).
 
Locus   Forensic Unknown   Candidate Offender   Match Stringency
D8S1179   13   13, 14   Moderate
D21S11   28, 31.2   28, 31.2   High
D7S820   12   10, 12   Moderate
D7S820   10, 12   10   Moderate
D3S1358   15, 17   15, 17   High
TH01   8   7, 8   Moderate
D13S317   9, 12   9   Moderate
D16S539   11, 12   12   Moderate
VWA   17   15, 17   Moderate
TPOX   8, 11   8   Moderate
D18S51   24   16, 24   Moderate
D5S818   9, 12   12   Moderate
FGA   24, 25   24, 25   High

29. Can partial match information at NDIS be disclosed?
Since a partial match is not an exact profile match to an offender profile and therefore cannot be subject to NDIS-defined confirmation procedures, the FBI has authorized procedures for the release of partial match information. NDIS laboratories that identify a partial match resulting from an NDIS search and wish to identify the offender profile should refer to Appendix G of the NDIS Operational Procedures Manual and contact the FBI’s CODIS Unit for further information.
 
30. Is there any guidance on how to address these partial matches?
At the FBI’s request, the Scientific Working Group on DNA Analysis Methods (SWGDAM) reviewed the scientific issues relating to partial matches and developed recommendations to assist in the evaluation of this information. Those recommendations are available in Forensic Science Communications at You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login (with correction at You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login).

31. How successful are partial matches at locating potential suspects?
As explained in SWGDAM’s recommendations “Moderate stringency CODIS matches, in general, have very low efficiency in locating true relatives in offender databases. There is little useful probative value in the majority of partial matches using the current CODIS searching rules and algorithms. There are two main reasons for this: (1) true siblings will very rarely share alleles at all CODIS core loci; (2) as offender DNA databases get large, the number of unrelated people that do share at least one allele at all loci increases very rapidly. The original intent for allowing moderate stringency CODIS searches was the realization and acknowledgment that crime scene profiles often may be partially degraded and/or contain DNA from more than one contributor. Additionally, different primer sets may have been used between profiles. Allowing the detection of partial matches can help accommodate these two scenarios and allow the ultimate detection of full, high-stringency matches that might otherwise not have been found.” The Committee’s complete list of recommendations is available at You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login (with correction at You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login).

32. Are partial matches the same as familial searches?
No. A partial match, as indicated above, is the spontaneous product of a routine database search where a candidate offender profile is not identical to the forensic profile but because of a similarity in the number of alleles shared between the forensic profile and the candidate profile, the offender may be a close biological relative of the source of the forensic profile. Familial searching is an intentional or deliberate search of the database conducted after a routine search for the purpose of potentially identifying close biological relatives of the unknown forensic sample associated with the crime scene profile.
 
33. Are familial searches performed at NDIS?
No, familial searching is not currently performed at NDIS. See also Familial Searching and Federal Register Vol. 73, No. 238 (December 10, 2008 at page 74937).
 
... see the whole document at url above for fuller explanation . . .
 

Offline georger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2227
  • Thanked: 303 times
Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2982 on: May 06, 2020, 04:36:40 PM »
So, if you have followed any of the above a smart person would ask: what do any of these 13 "loci" tell about Cooper's physical traits etc? That is where the rubber meets the road. The answers to that must wait until I am free to think and compose something. But Google any of these loci to make your own estimates! Good luck Keep in mind we dont know how many of these loci the FBI lab has identified .. to qualify as a Partial. Could be 7, 11, but must be at least 5.   ;)

 CSF1PO
    FGA
    THO1
    TPOX
    VWA
    D3S1358
    D5S818
    D7S820
    D8S1179
    D13S317
    D16S539
    D18S51
    D21S11   
« Last Edit: May 06, 2020, 04:39:48 PM by georger »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3753
  • Thanked: 248 times
    • The Mountain News
Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2983 on: May 06, 2020, 06:32:24 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Didn't Tina say that she went out to get the money? I saw this on the case closed doc, but I don't remember if it was the 2016 interview, or if it was footage of the press conference from right after the hijacking. But I thought at some point she said something like that. I'll go back and look when I get a chance.

That is the standard narrative. As a result, I was shocked to hear a different story from the passengers. Made me wonder if "little while lies" might be the tip of a covering-up iceberg.

Specifically, how did the FBI and NWO alter the story of who did what and when? Then we need to ask WHY?

The money retrieval is one item. Also in dispute is when the passengers were moved up to the front of the plane. Most passengers say they moved up near the end of the flight, with one guy saying they were one final approach. Again, this is counter to the official narrative.

Further, the two-hours circling around Seattle were not a piece of cake as the official story suggests. Rather, there was at least one drunken disturbance that required significant intervention by the FAs, and even DBC reported raised his voice to shut someone up in Row 12.

Perhaps the most disturbing piece of information from the passengers is the report from Larry Finegold that one of the men who brought the money onboard was an FBI agent. The SA's name was "John" and Finegold, a Seattle USADA, knew him from the courts.

Was all the scrubbing of truth necessary to protect NWO's public image? Maybe. Was it more? Maybe.

Did Tina participate willingly in all of this? Maybe. Maybe not. If not, was she shut up somehow? Is that why she went into hiding for 30 years? Maybe. Maybe not.

Is Tina complicit in this narrative spin? Did she "kind of" lie to help the NWO and the FBI appear to be honest when they were deceiving the public? Is her complicity the leverage that the FBI has over her? That is, if they actually have any leverage over her. That is total speculation on my part, but others share it, such as Galen. Remember, Tina seems to do what the FBI want her to do when they want her to do it, such as appear in the 2016 HC docu, or lie through her teeth in the 2012 Eugene Weekly interview.

Bottom Line: Talk to me Tina or face the implications of your silence. Tina could clear ALL of this up in five minutes. Or at least go on the record with her explanation for all of these incidents.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2020, 06:32:53 PM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

Offline georger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2227
  • Thanked: 303 times
Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2984 on: May 07, 2020, 12:45:56 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Didn't Tina say that she went out to get the money? I saw this on the case closed doc, but I don't remember if it was the 2016 interview, or if it was footage of the press conference from right after the hijacking. But I thought at some point she said something like that. I'll go back and look when I get a chance.

That is the standard narrative. As a result, I was shocked to hear a different story from the passengers. Made me wonder if "little while lies" might be the tip of a covering-up iceberg.

Specifically, how did the FBI and NWO alter the story of who did what and when? Then we need to ask WHY?

The money retrieval is one item. Also in dispute is when the passengers were moved up to the front of the plane. Most passengers say they moved up near the end of the flight, with one guy saying they were one final approach. Again, this is counter to the official narrative.

Further, the two-hours circling around Seattle were not a piece of cake as the official story suggests. Rather, there was at least one drunken disturbance that required significant intervention by the FAs, and even DBC reported raised his voice to shut someone up in Row 12.

Perhaps the most disturbing piece of information from the passengers is the report from Larry Finegold that one of the men who brought the money onboard was an FBI agent. The SA's name was "John" and Finegold, a Seattle USADA, knew him from the courts.

Was all the scrubbing of truth necessary to protect NWO's public image? Maybe. Was it more? Maybe.

Did Tina participate willingly in all of this? Maybe. Maybe not. If not, was she shut up somehow? Is that why she went into hiding for 30 years? Maybe. Maybe not.

Is Tina complicit in this narrative spin? Did she "kind of" lie to help the NWO and the FBI appear to be honest when they were deceiving the public? Is her complicity the leverage that the FBI has over her? That is, if they actually have any leverage over her. That is total speculation on my part, but others share it, such as Galen. Remember, Tina seems to do what the FBI want her to do when they want her to do it, such as appear in the 2016 HC docu, or lie through her teeth in the 2012 Eugene Weekly interview.

Bottom Line: Talk to me Tina or face the implications of your silence. Tina could clear ALL of this up in five minutes. Or at least go on the record with her explanation for all of these incidents.

Try isnt going to talk to you or Galen in any event.  YOu can bank on that.