Author Topic: Flight Path And Related Issues  (Read 204907 times)

Offline Robert99

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2910 on: March 22, 2020, 11:44:45 PM »
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I'm not certain I understand the argument here. The airport is in Reno, therefore the jet had to fly over Reno to get to the Reno airport. This is not the same thing as flying over densely populated areas of Portland/Vancouver unnecessarily which is precisely what the FBI Flight Path depicts.

BTW, I am very familiar with Reno and Reno is a fraction of the size of Portland/Vancouver.

Finally, flying in between downtown Portland and Beaverton in 1971 is not at all the same as flying over downtown Portland. Not to mention flying west of downtown Portland--which Captain Scott apparently insisted he did--is along a straight line when considering a Maylay to Canby path.

The Reno airport is on the east side of Reno.  The airliner could not handle high descent rates, as crazy as that may sound, per statements made very early in the Oakland ATC radio transcripts.  So the controller kept the airliner well north of Reno and tried to get it established on the localizer for runway 16 (it would be landing to the south).  A 10 mile final approach is not out of the ordinary for normal approaches, so an extended final approach would give the airliner more time to get set up for landing but it was not able to land on the first try and had to circle for a second attempt.
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2911 on: March 22, 2020, 11:49:09 PM »
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I'm trying to make sense of Portland pretty much ignoring a bomb coming there way, but the pilots were concerned and management? then specific data was given by the Portland operator who was very explicit with degree and location? two  separate reports near V23 from radar operators?

There is nothing to suggest that the Portland radar operator was directly involved with the airliner.  And as pointed out some time ago, the airliner was never very far from V-23 even when bypassing Portland on the Malay to Canby line.
 

Offline EU

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2912 on: March 22, 2020, 11:51:41 PM »
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I'm trying to make sense of Portland pretty much ignoring a bomb coming there way, but the pilots were concerned and management? then specific data was given by the Portland operator who was very explicit with degree and location? two  separate reports near V23 from radar operators?

Portland did not handle 305--it was handled by ATC.

Also, I think it's important to remember that there were four jets all in the same area related to the event--305, the T-38 and the two F-106s. Perhaps this fact begins to explain where the FBI Flight Path was derived.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

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Offline georger

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2913 on: March 22, 2020, 11:51:59 PM »
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It would be unfathomable for the Air Force to have tracked the wrong aircraft... for the ENTIRE flight. The original map stretches well south of the area we focus on, and chase aircraft came and went. When did the Air force stop tracking 305... and when did they start tracking it again?

I still want/demand to know who EU's "individual at McChord who was tasked with crunching radar data" - is! Name the guy! Name his unit?  Name anyone he worked with or was a part of!

EU's claim either has substance or it doesn't.  Or he just made this up ? Nobody is entitled to make something like this up -

Is EU even aware that several members of the TAG were interviewed several times and they named the people who were working radar etc at McChord that night? We've been over this stuff before. 

EU and the Other Guy are going to keep at this until all life is extinguished from the Earth and the pyramids collapse - that much is 1000000000% obvious. Good luck to the lone survivor!   ;)
« Last Edit: March 22, 2020, 11:58:33 PM by georger »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2914 on: March 22, 2020, 11:52:13 PM »
Quote
Portland did not handle 305--it was handled by ATC.


They don't have to be involved in anything. it's against your own rules about a bomb coming into a populated area...ALL involved on the ground should of been concerned and monitoring the progress of the flight. again, common sense would tell you to be watching..
« Last Edit: March 22, 2020, 11:57:04 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline georger

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2915 on: March 22, 2020, 11:53:52 PM »
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I'm trying to make sense of Portland pretty much ignoring a bomb coming there way, but the pilots were concerned and management? then specific data was given by the Portland operator who was very explicit with degree and location? two  separate reports near V23 from radar operators?

Portland did not handle 305--it was handled by ATC.

Also, I think it's important to remember that there were four jets all in the same area related to the event--305, the T-38 and the two F-106s. Perhaps this fact begins to explain where the FBI Flight Path was derived.

How is it important?
 

Offline EU

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2916 on: March 22, 2020, 11:57:19 PM »
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It would be unfathomable for the Air Force to have tracked the wrong aircraft... for the ENTIRE flight. The original map stretches well south of the area we focus on, and chase aircraft came and went. When did the Air force stop tracking 305... and when did they start tracking it again?

I still want/demand to know who EU's "individual at McChord who was tasked with crunching radar data" - is! Name the guy! Name his unit?  Name anyone he worked with or was a part of!

EU's claim either has substance or it doesn't.  Or he just made this up ? Nobody is entitled to make something like this up -

Is EU even aware that several members of the TAG were interviewed several times and they named the people who were working radar etc at McChord that night? We've been over this stuff before.

You have absolutely no idea who was personally tasked with plotting the path and melding data from NWO and the FDR, do you? If you do I would very interested to know who all of these people are. I have never seen an identifying document from the FBI, have you?

To suggest that people are infallible when defined in a plural capacity is nonsense. People make mistakes. Period.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

RFK
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2917 on: March 23, 2020, 12:00:41 AM »
Quote
To suggest that people are infallible when defined in a plural capacity is nonsense. People make mistakes. Period.

The problem I see is you are claiming multiple people from multiple entities are completely wrong...radar, FDR, operator statements etc. civilian radar, Sage radar...
« Last Edit: March 23, 2020, 12:01:30 AM by Shutter »
 

Offline georger

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2918 on: March 23, 2020, 12:04:45 AM »
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It would be unfathomable for the Air Force to have tracked the wrong aircraft... for the ENTIRE flight. The original map stretches well south of the area we focus on, and chase aircraft came and went. When did the Air force stop tracking 305... and when did they start tracking it again?

I still want/demand to know who EU's "individual at McChord who was tasked with crunching radar data" - is! Name the guy! Name his unit?  Name anyone he worked with or was a part of!

EU's claim either has substance or it doesn't.  Or he just made this up ? Nobody is entitled to make something like this up -

Is EU even aware that several members of the TAG were interviewed several times and they named the people who were working radar etc at McChord that night? We've been over this stuff before.

You have absolutely no idea who was personally tasked with plotting the path and melding data from NWO and the FDR, do you? If you do I would very interested to know who all of these people are. I have never seen an identifying document from the FBI, have you?

To suggest that people are infallible when defined in a plural capacity is nonsense. People make mistakes. Period.

R E EE EE  DDDD V E R Y CAREFULLY!

No singe person drew the 305 flight - at McChord or anywhere else. A SYSTEM DID!  A COMPUTER!   People assessed and  reviewed it all multiple times.

Let me do an exhaustive 5 hour search and I will give you the name of the group.  Or you can search past posts and find it yourself! 


Im sorry but I have serious things to do - my ELVIS time has run out - i mustr leave the bldg. BYE!

 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2919 on: March 23, 2020, 12:05:10 AM »
Quote
I have never seen an identifying document from the FBI, have you?

I don't see a reason for the military to give the FBI or NWO anything but the map. why would they have to explain themselves?
 

Offline EU

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2920 on: March 23, 2020, 12:06:17 AM »
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Quote
To suggest that people are infallible when defined in a plural capacity is nonsense. People make mistakes. Period.

The problem I see is you are claiming multiple people from multiple entities are completely wrong...radar, FDR, operator statements etc. civilian radar, Sage radar...

I think if you took inventory on those who attest to the FBI Flight Path you would be surprised. If the proclamations were unanimous, why then did the FBI begin to entertain a Washougal flight path and radically different timing?
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

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Offline EU

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2921 on: March 23, 2020, 12:07:55 AM »
Like it or not, somebody F'd up.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

RFK
 

Offline Kermit

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2922 on: March 23, 2020, 12:17:28 AM »
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It’s kinda funny how people try to sell this Western Flight plan by using this “ why would they fly over a populated area “ story ! However when I ask a simple question where exactly is this unpopulated area West of Portland..... I get no response ! I lived here most of my life and delivered mail in S W Portland and lived there. Beaverton borders Portland to the West and is home to Nike and a ton of businesses ! Further West is Hillsboro a mere 20 miles from PDX. Interesting!

Are you suggesting that the area about 10 miles west of PIA was as built up as downtown Portland in 1971?
I’m not here to give you a bad time ! I’ll always try to give you as accurate information about what Portland was like in 1970. The Downtown you saw in 2009 wasn’t anything like it was in 1970. The Pearl district where REI is located was far more an Industrial area with the huge Blitz Weinhard brewery there and lots of businesses. So many of the tall residential high rise Appt buildings like the Grant, Lincoln, Sherman Towers were built in the mid 70’s and 80. I’d venture to say almost all the newer high rise in the Pearl weren’t even thought of in 1970. Most of downtown Portland was retail Stores like Meier and Frank etc and office buildings. I read that about 55% lived outside of the downtown area and were commuters. Most of the commuters lived in Mulltnomah county to the East. However from the mid 60’s, Washington County and Yamhill counties were the fastest growing area which was of course West Portland and Beaverton, Tigard areas. Beaverton is about 11 nautical miles from PDX. I lived at 6152 S W Miles ct  back then. I’ve given a long honest answer and I’m just saying that there was no place West of Portland that was unpopulated.
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2923 on: March 23, 2020, 02:21:22 AM »
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It’s kinda funny how people try to sell this Western Flight plan by using this “ why would they fly over a populated area “ story ! However when I ask a simple question where exactly is this unpopulated area West of Portland..... I get no response ! I lived here most of my life and delivered mail in S W Portland and lived there. Beaverton borders Portland to the West and is home to Nike and a ton of businesses ! Further West is Hillsboro a mere 20 miles from PDX. Interesting!

Are you suggesting that the area about 10 miles west of PIA was as built up as downtown Portland in 1971?
I’m not here to give you a bad time ! I’ll always try to give you as accurate information about what Portland was like in 1970. The Downtown you saw in 2009 wasn’t anything like it was in 1970. The Pearl district where REI is located was far more an Industrial area with the huge Blitz Weinhard brewery there and lots of businesses. So many of the tall residential high rise Appt buildings like the Grant, Lincoln, Sherman Towers were built in the mid 70’s and 80. I’d venture to say almost all the newer high rise in the Pearl weren’t even thought of in 1970. Most of downtown Portland was retail Stores like Meier and Frank etc and office buildings. I read that about 55% lived outside of the downtown area and were commuters. Most of the commuters lived in Mulltnomah county to the East. However from the mid 60’s, Washington County and Yamhill counties were the fastest growing area which was of course West Portland and Beaverton, Tigard areas. Beaverton is about 11 nautical miles from PDX. I lived at 6152 S W Miles ct  back then. I’ve given a long honest answer and I’m just saying that there was no place West of Portland that was unpopulated.

First, I have NEVER claimed that the area west of Portland was "unpopulated".

Second, if you compare 1971 era maps with present day maps of Portland, it is plainly obvious that the area west of Portland was not as congested in 1971 as Portland proper or the east side of Portland.

Would you prefer that the wreckage of a bombed airliner land on top of the REI store or on top of a few ranch houses on the west side of Portland?  The point of staying west was to keep the body count down.

As the saying goes, I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you. ::)
« Last Edit: March 23, 2020, 02:28:54 AM by Robert99 »
 

Offline Kermit

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2924 on: March 23, 2020, 09:49:41 AM »
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It’s kinda funny how people try to sell this Western Flight plan by using this “ why would they fly over a populated area “ story ! However when I ask a simple question where exactly is this unpopulated area West of Portland..... I get no response ! I lived here most of my life and delivered mail in S W Portland and lived there. Beaverton borders Portland to the West and is home to Nike and a ton of businesses ! Further West is Hillsboro a mere 20 miles from PDX. Interesting!

Are you suggesting that the area about 10 miles west of PIA was as built up as downtown Portland in 1971?
I’m not here to give you a bad time ! I’ll always try to give you as accurate information about what Portland was like in 1970. The Downtown you saw in 2009 wasn’t anything like it was in 1970. The Pearl district where REI is located was far more an Industrial area with the huge Blitz Weinhard brewery there and lots of businesses. So many of the tall residential high rise Appt buildings like the Grant, Lincoln, Sherman Towers were built in the mid 70’s and 80. I’d venture to say almost all the newer high rise in the Pearl weren’t even thought of in 1970. Most of downtown Portland was retail Stores like Meier and Frank etc and office buildings. I read that about 55% lived outside of the downtown area and were commuters. Most of the commuters lived in Mulltnomah county to the East. However from the mid 60’s, Washington County and Yamhill counties were the fastest growing area which was of course West Portland and Beaverton, Tigard areas. Beaverton is about 11 nautical miles from PDX. I lived at 6152 S W Miles ct  back then. I’ve given a long honest answer and I’m just saying that there was no place West of Portland that was unpopulated.

First, I have NEVER claimed that the area west of Portland was "unpopulated".

Second, if you compare 1971 era maps with present day maps of Portland, it is plainly obvious that the area west of Portland was not as congested in 1971 as Portland proper or the east side of Portland.

Would you prefer that the wreckage of a bombed airliner land on top of the REI store or on top of a few ranch houses on the west side of Portland?  The point of staying west was to keep the body count down.

As the saying goes, I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you. ::)

Once again you refuse to accept anything that doesn’t validate your western flight plan. You asked about what was about 10 miles west of PIA which is PDX. I told you that Beaverton is about 11 nautical miles from PIA. You have consistently discounted any experts statements that were actually there in 1971. It’s a total wonder why there weren’t daily airline crashes in and around PIA as nobody had any idea where all those planes were ! The U. S Air Force were supposed to protect us from enemies but nobody knew where any planes were. Radar was useless in 1971 I guess. I know for a fact that the pilots saw the glow of the lights of Portland, Vancouver but I guess they must have been wrong also as I guess it was Beaverton or Hillsboro. As the saying goes, I can explain it to you but I can’t understand it for you !😁