Author Topic: Flight Path And Related Issues  (Read 223652 times)

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2850 on: October 06, 2019, 07:56:56 PM »
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I assume that the "Paul" is Paul Soderland (spelling?).  Did he have anything to use other than the information from sources mentioned in the above paragraph?  It appears that the pilot's were not debriefed by the FBI except in Reno on the evening of the hijacking.  And I believe a possible jump zone was worked up even before the airliner got to Reno.

I believe Paul used every tool available, why wouldn't he? the FBI has nothing to do with any of this other than being told where to look. yes, it's possible the START of finding out where the plane was started on the 24th. we read dozens of documents of changes due to new evidence be it the FDR, radar, or pilot testimony. even the testing in 72. haven't you read the documents of the FBI saying multiple times they got off the phone with Paul surrounding the dropzone or statements from the pilots? they relied on others and didn't plot or calculate anything.

Going to T bar will not resolve the problem. Tom Kaye spent a lot of time there. he doesn't believe the plane flew over the area. I also find it hard to believe Cooper was concealed in a small area surrounded by people on a daily basis. you believe he's dead, other don't. Tbar doesn't show that clue either.

Insulting others for not going there is no fair play either. you have believed Cooper landed on Cat Island for a decade and failed to search the area. it should all be buried right there in that small patch of woods?  we don't really know what Paul did. we have bits and pieces of all of it.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2019, 07:57:37 PM by Shutter »
 
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Online Robert99

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2851 on: October 07, 2019, 12:56:51 AM »
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I assume that the "Paul" is Paul Soderland (spelling?).  Did he have anything to use other than the information from sources mentioned in the above paragraph?  It appears that the pilot's were not debriefed by the FBI except in Reno on the evening of the hijacking.  And I believe a possible jump zone was worked up even before the airliner got to Reno.

I believe Paul used every tool available, why wouldn't he? the FBI has nothing to do with any of this other than being told where to look. yes, it's possible the START of finding out where the plane was started on the 24th. we read dozens of documents of changes due to new evidence be it the FDR, radar, or pilot testimony. even the testing in 72. haven't you read the documents of the FBI saying multiple times they got off the phone with Paul surrounding the dropzone or statements from the pilots? they relied on others and didn't plot or calculate anything.

Going to T bar will not resolve the problem. Tom Kaye spent a lot of time there. he doesn't believe the plane flew over the area. I also find it hard to believe Cooper was concealed in a small area surrounded by people on a daily basis. you believe he's dead, other don't. Tbar doesn't show that clue either.

Insulting others for not going there is no fair play either. you have believed Cooper landed on Cat Island for a decade and failed to search the area. it should all be buried right there in that small patch of woods?  we don't really know what Paul did. we have bits and pieces of all of it.

I didn't say that the FBI estimated the initial drop zone.  And who said that anything about being "concealed in a small area surrounded by people"?  Any search for Cooper today on Caterpillar Island would need such things as ground penetrating radar.  If he was originally snagged in one of those man eating briar patches, part of him might still be there but would probably be under a few feet of sand at this point.

The money find at Tina Bar, which was apparently just cash in a hole without any container, is strong evidence that Cooper moved downstream from Caterpillar Island, and probably in the spring 1972 runoff.

Why don't you mention something to Georger about not insulting others?  Otherwise, he would probably never think about that.   
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2852 on: October 07, 2019, 08:43:58 AM »
My point was Caterpiller Island is a very busy island which I imagine many people utilize the beach and the woods throughout the year. I consider it a small area when looking at maps and coverage. the chute was on his back and probably could be located with a metal detector vs ground radar along with other items on his body. the list is larger than the one's who have been to Tbar so it insults more than just Georger. Galen has been to Tbar multiple times and with someone who has studied the river and believes it was planted. Eric has been there and believes it was planted. the Army corps of engineers have been there and failed to mention the body should be close by the find. the same goes for Tom Kaye. whats funny is two people (Eric & shutter) noted everyone was in the wrong location where the money was found that has been to Tbar.

In my opinion of the area and not stepping foot on the ground can come to a conclusion that these area's are not untouched or free from curious explorer's that have ventured into the wooded area over the years. I think Cooper would be visible or artifacts with Cooper for sometime after the fact. I think if we were to give credit to a western path Eric's location would be more plausible since the area is basically off limits to the public and free from accidental findings. the odds are better in his case.   

I had to tell you and Georger to knock off the attacks/insults several times prior to my getting involved in the conversation.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2853 on: October 07, 2019, 07:56:09 PM »
We need to cease all the BS. I think it's best you two stop responding to each other. posting Georger's name is hitting below the belt. this is the second time you have done this. the next hint of an argument will get a month's vacation.
 
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Online Robert99

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2854 on: October 08, 2019, 12:04:12 AM »
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We need to cease all the BS. I think it's best you two stop responding to each other. posting Georger's name is hitting below the belt. this is the second time you have done this. the next hint of an argument will get a month's vacation.

How about mentioning to Georger that he should stop posting my name.  I have posted my name from time to time but it was for a specific reason.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2855 on: October 08, 2019, 01:06:39 AM »
Nope, not the same at all. your name is on the DZ, this website, this forum and was on Sluggo's website for years. you never asked once to have your name kept private or even semi-private. doesn't matter if everyone knows his name. he doesn't like it being mentioned. you have known this for as long as I have, perhaps longer. if it was reversed, I would do the same for you or anyone else on this board. it's pretty simple.

Perhaps later down the road you guys can discuss things but at the moment I think it's best to move on from this issue.

Good Nite.....
 

Offline georger

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2856 on: October 08, 2019, 12:27:29 PM »
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Nope, not the same at all. your name is on the DZ, this website, this forum and was on Sluggo's website for years. you never asked once to have your name kept private or even semi-private. doesn't matter if everyone knows his name. he doesn't like it being mentioned. you have known this for as long as I have, perhaps longer. if it was reversed, I would do the same for you or anyone else on this board. it's pretty simple.

Perhaps later down the road you guys can discuss things but at the moment I think it's best to move on from this issue.

Good Nite.....

It is what it is - there is nothing to discuss. Now or ever. 
 

Offline georger

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2857 on: December 11, 2019, 01:17:34 PM »
Its official - could see lights of Portland and specific areas.

"  Contrary to our earlier belief, the crew told him that they could see the lights of Portland And other distinctive lights in that area, so given knowledge of the specific area the hijacker could very easily have made a jump to a specific location. "
« Last Edit: December 11, 2019, 01:17:58 PM by georger »
 

Online Robert99

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2858 on: December 11, 2019, 02:07:47 PM »
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Its official - could see lights of Portland and specific areas.

"  Contrary to our earlier belief, the crew told him that they could see the lights of Portland And other distinctive lights in that area, so given knowledge of the specific area the hijacker could very easily have made a jump to a specific location. "

See post #4294 on the Suspects and Confessions thread for more comments on the above.

Cooper did not have any control over the flight path of the airliner.  He did not specify any particular route to be flown.

Consequently, there is no way on God's Green Earth that Cooper could have jumped "to a specific location".
 

Offline fcastle866

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2859 on: December 12, 2019, 09:19:54 AM »
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Its official - could see lights of Portland and specific areas.

"  Contrary to our earlier belief, the crew told him that they could see the lights of Portland And other distinctive lights in that area, so given knowledge of the specific area the hijacker could very easily have made a jump to a specific location. "

See post #4294 on the Suspects and Confessions thread for more comments on the above.

Cooper did not have any control over the flight path of the airliner.  He did not specify any particular route to be flown.

Consequently, there is no way on God's Green Earth that Cooper could have jumped "to a specific location".

Robert: He didn't need to control the flight path, he only needed to know the general area, which he likely did.  If a plane starts in Seattle and is flying to Mexico City or Reno or wherever, then that path is south.  By giving a specific altitude, he can have some control of the path as well.  Whether or not he knew where he was going is up to interpretation, but there is a strong possibility that he could have had an idea of where he was going and a general area of where to jump and land.  He would not have been able to pinpoint a drop zone, but landing in a general area was certainly possible, and if he had help on the ground, then all he needed was a general area.
 

Online Robert99

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2860 on: December 12, 2019, 10:23:19 AM »
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Its official - could see lights of Portland and specific areas.

"  Contrary to our earlier belief, the crew told him that they could see the lights of Portland And other distinctive lights in that area, so given knowledge of the specific area the hijacker could very easily have made a jump to a specific location. "

See post #4294 on the Suspects and Confessions thread for more comments on the above.

Cooper did not have any control over the flight path of the airliner.  He did not specify any particular route to be flown.

Consequently, there is no way on God's Green Earth that Cooper could have jumped "to a specific location".

Robert: He didn't need to control the flight path, he only needed to know the general area, which he likely did.  If a plane starts in Seattle and is flying to Mexico City or Reno or wherever, then that path is south.  By giving a specific altitude, he can have some control of the path as well.  Whether or not he knew where he was going is up to interpretation, but there is a strong possibility that he could have had an idea of where he was going and a general area of where to jump and land.  He would not have been able to pinpoint a drop zone, but landing in a general area was certainly possible, and if he had help on the ground, then all he needed was a general area.

Jumping "in a general area" is not jumping "to a specific location".  When Cooper jumped, he may or may not have had an idea about which state he was in [Washington or Oregon], but he didn't have the means to know which city he was near.
 

Offline haggarknew

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2861 on: December 12, 2019, 10:27:22 AM »
I hear crow tastes like chicken, is that true Robert99?
 

Online Robert99

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2862 on: December 12, 2019, 10:34:52 AM »
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I hear crow tastes like chicken, is that true Robert99?

I don't know what crows taste like.  Georger should be able to tell you.  And you should look twice before jumping to conclusions.
 

Offline georger

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2863 on: December 13, 2019, 03:58:29 PM »
NASA sky pollution surveys - Portland vs Seattle 1970. The V23 corridor between the two cities is very dark. With dark adaptation Portland would stand out ahead to pilots at 10k ft. no matter the weather. To a photometer Portland would register off scale! There is no cloud cover known on Earth that could obscure sky glow from these cities in 1970-71. Red (+5) is as high as the scale goes in 1950-75. 
« Last Edit: December 13, 2019, 04:06:36 PM by georger »
 

Online Robert99

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2864 on: December 13, 2019, 04:17:50 PM »
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NASA sky pollution surveys - Portland vs Seattle 1970. The V23 corridor between the two cities is very dark. With dark adaptation Portland would stand out ahead to pilots at 10k ft. no matter the weather. There is no cloud cover known on Earth that could obscure sky glow from these cities. Red (+5) is as high as the scale goes in 1950-75.

Georger has apparently never seen a thunderstorm and his remarks about the weather are just more nonsense.  For his information, thunderstorms in the USA can reach 40 or 50 thousand feet altitude and up to 70 thousand feet in other parts of the world.  In fact, U-2's flying at 70 thousand feet on operational missions have had to detour around them in some parts of the world.

I'll bet the picture Georger posted was made on a clear night or nearly clear night.  And if it was a "sky pollution survey" made at night, what were the frequencies that were used in the survey equipment?  Were they all in the visual to the human eye range?