Author Topic: Flight Path And Related Issues  (Read 170842 times)

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2805 on: September 09, 2019, 04:05:39 PM »
Those are from GG's...look in the vault and you will see them at the top. complete with "true-ink watermarks
« Last Edit: September 09, 2019, 04:05:54 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2806 on: September 09, 2019, 04:09:03 PM »
Reichenbach wouldn't tell me who he was. all he said was he was a group of four people using that name. I asked gray where he got his and wouldn't tell me. I asked him if he knew who Reichenbach was and he laughed and said "is that the name he's using" and stopped conversing.....
 

Offline georger

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2807 on: September 09, 2019, 04:12:15 PM »
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Reichenbach wouldn't tell me who he was. all he said was he was a group of four people using that name. I asked gray where he got his and wouldn't tell me. I asked him if he knew who Reichenbach was and he laughed and said "is that the name he's using" and stopped conversing.....

Well we apparently have two different version of similar files from GG and Richenbach.

Ive run out of time for this ...
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2808 on: September 09, 2019, 04:12:27 PM »
I took the file straight from GG's site after asking him if it was okay. I knew something was wrong when it said third officer..if you check True-Ink website it will have the same files I have?
« Last Edit: September 09, 2019, 04:13:11 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline georger

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2809 on: September 09, 2019, 04:25:39 PM »
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I took the file straight from GG's site after asking him if it was okay. I knew something was wrong when it said third officer..if you check True-Ink website it will have the same files I have?

That file that identifies Rat as 3rd officer is wrong ....... no matter where it came from.

I said before I thought that file was referring to Anderson - I have solid reasons for saying that not the least of which is actual interviews with ANDERSON!  So far as I know ANDERSON is the ONLY crew member that testified about the planes position vs times _ on 11/24! On 11/24 Rat did not say one word about times or position ... oir even oscillations of bump! ONLY ANDERSON TESTIFIED ABOUT THAT ON THE EVENING OF 11/24.

It is possible some dumbass FBI agent identified Rat as Third Officer - that is entirely possible - and it would wind up in some FBI 302 mistakes and all. You apparently have a 302 that makes that mistake.


 
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2810 on: September 09, 2019, 04:30:22 PM »
The files appear to have been made from listening to a recording since they use the terms "Ratazcak stated or he also said" which is either getting the data from notes or a tape recording. it's possible they marked the tape with the wrong name...
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2811 on: September 09, 2019, 07:19:39 PM »
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I don't believe there is anymore to that document. when I post them they are associated with the current discussion and only show details surrounding that subject.

Yes, the Campbell files are the statements taken the evening of the hijacking. I made my files public long before GG made his public. mine are redacted and his are not. Anderson is not in either of the files. I have six separate files in the vault. those are the one's that were sent to me by Reickenbach or how ever his name was spelled. he was part of a group of four that posted under the same username. he grew tired of Blevins and left his site and gave me the files and vanished...

I got my files from Gray. They are un-redacted. Anderson is named. Intro starts -

"11-24 Harold Anderson :
Harold E Anderson, was interviewed at the Reno Airport, Reno Nevada, late on the evening of November 24, 1971. He identified himself as the Third Officer & Flight Engineer on Northwest Airlines Flight #305. 
Anderson advised that according to some notes he made, it was at 2759 Zulu time or 3:59 pm Pacific Standard Time, that he received an emergency signal from hostess Mucklow on the interphone with a series of bells signalling they had trouble onboard. This is a pre-arranged signal for such emergencies and he made a notation in his book of the time of notification. "

Georger, if you typed that in correctly, then there is a problem with the original document.

First, Zulu time (which is Greenwich Mean Time) only goes from 0000 to 2400 Zulu.  There is no such time as 2759 Zulu.

Second, I believe the correct time for the start of the hijacking was 2:58 PM PST on November 24, 1971.  In Zulu time, that is 0058 Zulu on November 25, 1971.  Zulu time is 8 hours ahead of PST.
 

Offline georger

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2812 on: September 09, 2019, 11:35:57 PM »
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The files appear to have been made from listening to a recording since they use the terms "Ratazcak stated or he also said" which is either getting the data from notes or a tape recording. it's possible they marked the tape with the wrong name...

Thats my thought too - typist error. Thats what my sec thinks too - and she is always right@!  :chr2:

The information is the same regardless of the source, but Im betting the source is Anderson.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2019, 11:38:47 PM by georger »
 

Offline georger

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2813 on: September 09, 2019, 11:37:56 PM »
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I don't believe there is anymore to that document. when I post them they are associated with the current discussion and only show details surrounding that subject.

Yes, the Campbell files are the statements taken the evening of the hijacking. I made my files public long before GG made his public. mine are redacted and his are not. Anderson is not in either of the files. I have six separate files in the vault. those are the one's that were sent to me by Reickenbach or how ever his name was spelled. he was part of a group of four that posted under the same username. he grew tired of Blevins and left his site and gave me the files and vanished...

I got my files from Gray. They are un-redacted. Anderson is named. Intro starts -

"11-24 Harold Anderson :
Harold E Anderson, was interviewed at the Reno Airport, Reno Nevada, late on the evening of November 24, 1971. He identified himself as the Third Officer & Flight Engineer on Northwest Airlines Flight #305. 
Anderson advised that according to some notes he made, it was at 2759 Zulu time or 3:59 pm Pacific Standard Time, that he received an emergency signal from hostess Mucklow on the interphone with a series of bells signalling they had trouble onboard. This is a pre-arranged signal for such emergencies and he made a notation in his book of the time of notification. "

Georger, if you typed that in correctly, then there is a problem with the original document.

First, Zulu time (which is Greenwich Mean Time) only goes from 0000 to 2400 Zulu.  There is no such time as 2759 Zulu.

Second, I believe the correct time for the start of the hijacking was 2:58 PM PST on November 24, 1971.  In Zulu time, that is 0058 Zulu on November 25, 1971.  Zulu time is 8 hours ahead of PST.

Has nothing to do with me or my typing ... or anyone's typing here.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2814 on: September 10, 2019, 12:01:02 AM »
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The files appear to have been made from listening to a recording since they use the terms "Ratazcak stated or he also said" which is either getting the data from notes or a tape recording. it's possible they marked the tape with the wrong name...

Thats my thought too - typist error. Thats what my sec thinks too - and she is always right@!  :chr2:

The information is the same regardless of the source, but Im betting the source is Anderson.

I see Rats file now that was given to me. it's the first file of six. GG is aware of this now. what he will do is probably nothing. he didn't seem concerned.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2019, 12:02:51 AM by Shutter »
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2815 on: September 10, 2019, 01:56:49 PM »
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I don't believe there is anymore to that document. when I post them they are associated with the current discussion and only show details surrounding that subject.

Yes, the Campbell files are the statements taken the evening of the hijacking. I made my files public long before GG made his public. mine are redacted and his are not. Anderson is not in either of the files. I have six separate files in the vault. those are the one's that were sent to me by Reickenbach or how ever his name was spelled. he was part of a group of four that posted under the same username. he grew tired of Blevins and left his site and gave me the files and vanished...

I got my files from Gray. They are un-redacted. Anderson is named. Intro starts -

"11-24 Harold Anderson :
Harold E Anderson, was interviewed at the Reno Airport, Reno Nevada, late on the evening of November 24, 1971. He identified himself as the Third Officer & Flight Engineer on Northwest Airlines Flight #305. 
Anderson advised that according to some notes he made, it was at 2759 Zulu time or 3:59 pm Pacific Standard Time, that he received an emergency signal from hostess Mucklow on the interphone with a series of bells signalling they had trouble onboard. This is a pre-arranged signal for such emergencies and he made a notation in his book of the time of notification. "

Georger, if you typed that in correctly, then there is a problem with the original document.

First, Zulu time (which is Greenwich Mean Time) only goes from 0000 to 2400 Zulu.  There is no such time as 2759 Zulu.

Second, I believe the correct time for the start of the hijacking was 2:58 PM PST on November 24, 1971.  In Zulu time, that is 0058 Zulu on November 25, 1971.  Zulu time is 8 hours ahead of PST.

Has nothing to do with me or my typing ... or anyone's typing here.

Georger, are you saying that you did not type in the quotation?  Regardless of how the quotation got into your post, it is wrong.

Anderson was acting as flight engineer on the hijacked aircraft but he was also a NWA pilot.  That is what those three stripes on his uniform sleeves mean.  And I believe that he eventually retired from NWA as a Captain on international flights and flying a 747.

And I am sure that Anderson knew how to tell time and was probably using it in the flight engineer's log he was keeping that day.  And I'll bet that NWA typists were also conversant in the Zulu time system.

So your quotation, wherever it came from, is suspect.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2816 on: September 10, 2019, 02:46:34 PM »
If you take at look at the file below you will see these statements were written by the agents and not the witnesses. it's obviously the agent was who got the time wrong as well as the name. it's possible they recorded the statements and transferred them to documents or since Campbell appears to have interviewed them used his notes....
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2817 on: September 10, 2019, 02:54:10 PM »
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If you take at look at the file below you will see these statements were written by the agents and not the witnesses. it's obviously the agent was who got the time wrong as well as the name. it's possible they recorded the statements and transferred them to documents or since Campbell appears to have interviewed them used his notes....

Rataczak was the second officer on that flight.  This entire file should be trashed and whoever prepared it should be given the boot.  But it will probably be passed off as truth from on high simply because it is from the FBI.
 

Offline georger

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2818 on: September 10, 2019, 03:33:38 PM »
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I don't believe there is anymore to that document. when I post them they are associated with the current discussion and only show details surrounding that subject.

Yes, the Campbell files are the statements taken the evening of the hijacking. I made my files public long before GG made his public. mine are redacted and his are not. Anderson is not in either of the files. I have six separate files in the vault. those are the one's that were sent to me by Reickenbach or how ever his name was spelled. he was part of a group of four that posted under the same username. he grew tired of Blevins and left his site and gave me the files and vanished...

I got my files from Gray. They are un-redacted. Anderson is named. Intro starts -

"11-24 Harold Anderson :
Harold E Anderson, was interviewed at the Reno Airport, Reno Nevada, late on the evening of November 24, 1971. He identified himself as the Third Officer & Flight Engineer on Northwest Airlines Flight #305. 
Anderson advised that according to some notes he made, it was at 2759 Zulu time or 3:59 pm Pacific Standard Time, that he received an emergency signal from hostess Mucklow on the interphone with a series of bells signalling they had trouble onboard. This is a pre-arranged signal for such emergencies and he made a notation in his book of the time of notification. "

Georger, if you typed that in correctly, then there is a problem with the original document.

First, Zulu time (which is Greenwich Mean Time) only goes from 0000 to 2400 Zulu.  There is no such time as 2759 Zulu.

Second, I believe the correct time for the start of the hijacking was 2:58 PM PST on November 24, 1971.  In Zulu time, that is 0058 Zulu on November 25, 1971.  Zulu time is 8 hours ahead of PST.

Has nothing to do with me or my typing ... or anyone's typing here.

Georger, are you saying that you did not type in the quotation?  Regardless of how the quotation got into your post, it is wrong.

Anderson was acting as flight engineer on the hijacked aircraft but he was also a NWA pilot.  That is what those three stripes on his uniform sleeves mean.  And I believe that he eventually retired from NWA as a Captain on international flights and flying a 747.

And I am sure that Anderson knew how to tell time and was probably using it in the flight engineer's log he was keeping that day.  And I'll bet that NWA typists were also conversant in the Zulu time system.

So your quotation, wherever it came from, is suspect.

It comes from FBI 302's! There are two sources for these 302's - a guy named Richenbach whoever he is and Geoff Gray.

I am assuming the agent got it wrong. Or two versions of the same notes were typed up maybe at two different offices. Its impossible to know. The info is the same but under two names; Rat vs Anderson.

The rest of the story is these docs do not stand alone but are backed up by other testimony so these two conflicting docs could be thrown out and the same info is still in play. No way to deny that. That is why multiple interviews are always a good thing.

Dont jump to conclusions just because you have a bias to sell.
 

Offline georger

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2819 on: September 10, 2019, 03:36:06 PM »
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If you take at look at the file below you will see these statements were written by the agents and not the witnesses. it's obviously the agent was who got the time wrong as well as the name. it's possible they recorded the statements and transferred them to documents or since Campbell appears to have interviewed them used his notes....

Rataczak was the second officer on that flight.  This entire file should be trashed and whoever prepared it should be given the boot.  But it will probably be passed off as truth from on high simply because it is from the FBI.

That would be a radical move! You cant give someone the boot - today is 2019! The people responsible are long gone. Might as well try to give Cleopatra the boot! She sits in a museum somewhere!