Author Topic: Flight Path And Related Issues  (Read 143145 times)

Offline georger

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Re: Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #1425 on: October 18, 2018, 01:42:39 AM »
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pic of the 727 E1 and E2 on the runway together, sporting the same paint job (as in the drop pic above)
and in a hanger with the Dash 80.
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Offline Shutter

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #1426 on: March 24, 2019, 10:38:01 AM »
To move the flight path would be a rather large conspiracy. The FAA, Air Force, ATC, FBI, pilots.

I don't think the dredge can be dismissed until it's proven the money couldn't survive. the only place it would get some what damaged is with the impellers which are not blades. then you need to determine where Cooper went into the water. it's possible he went into the Columbia but it's a long shot. the odds would be worse moving the path vs going into the river. they have a very large area of possibility due to not knowing exactly where he jumped and a small area/margin of error on the flight path. it makes sense to avoid populated area's but that doesn't mean it's true.

If Cooper was a no pull anywhere around Tbar, I find it odd that nobody stumbled onto him or his scent. lots of people use the beach and search the area for wood or exploration. it can't be ruled out either but the odds are once again high.
 

Offline EU

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #1427 on: March 24, 2019, 10:59:36 AM »
Regarding the flight path:

1) The Hicks' placard was found WEST of the FBI's flight path.

Question: Given that the winds were quite brisk from the SW that night, how is it possible that the placard was found west of the flight path?
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

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Offline fcastle866

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Re: Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #1428 on: March 24, 2019, 11:29:30 AM »
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Regarding the flight path:

1) The Hicks' placard was found WEST of the FBI's flight path.

Question: Given that the winds were quite brisk from the SW that night, how is it possible that the placard was found west of the flight path?

West of the flight path?  I show it east of the flight path.  Southeast of Toutle, WA and north of Pigeon Springs, WA.  Coordinates below.  Based off altitude, wind, and descent speed, the spot of the placard is pretty close to where it would have blown had it dropped off right where the FBI says the flight path was.  Now, if they plane all of a sudden turned west at that point, then it could have ended up over Tina Bar.  But to Shutter's point, that's a lot of people who had to be wrong.  The pilots, the air traffic controllers, the pilots in the F-106's.  A mile or two off on the flight path, maybe, but even that is unlikely.  All these men were professionals, many were combat vets, so to be off by 5 or even 10 miles is huge.  They have to know where they are in the air or they aren't pilots.

46°14’38.4″N 122°41’01.3″W
This can be cut and pasted in to Google Maps, just let it cycle thru a bit or hit search.
Shows as Unamed Road, Toutle, WA 98649

Why people like to think water is a magnet is beyond me.  Lake Merwin or the Columbia are islands in a sea of land.  Parachutes don't seek out water like humans do going to the beach.

« Last Edit: March 24, 2019, 11:33:38 AM by fcastle866 »
 

Offline EU

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Re: Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #1429 on: March 24, 2019, 11:46:39 AM »
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Regarding the flight path:

1) The Hicks' placard was found WEST of the FBI's flight path.

Question: Given that the winds were quite brisk from the SW that night, how is it possible that the placard was found west of the flight path?

West of the flight path?  I show it east of the flight path.  Southeast of Toutle, WA and north of Pigeon Springs, WA.  Coordinates below.  Based off altitude, wind, and descent speed, the spot of the placard is pretty close to where it would have blown had it dropped off right where the FBI says the flight path was.  Now, if they plane all of a sudden turned west at that point, then it could have ended up over Tina Bar.  But to Shutter's point, that's a lot of people who had to be wrong.  The pilots, the air traffic controllers, the pilots in the F-106's.  A mile or two off on the flight path, maybe, but even that is unlikely.  All these men were professionals, many were combat vets, so to be off by 5 or even 10 miles is huge.  They have to know where they are in the air or they aren't pilots.

46°14’38.4″N 122°41’01.3″W
This can be cut and pasted in to Google Maps, just let it cycle thru a bit or hit search.
Shows as Unamed Road, Toutle, WA 98649

Why people like to think water is a magnet is beyond me.  Lake Merwin or the Columbia are islands in a sea of land.  Parachutes don't seek out water like humans do going to the beach.

The FBI states that the flight path was put together based upon radar from the Air Force. I have not read anything regarding pilots providing clarity on the flight path. I do know the jet ended up west of Portland.

The GPS coordinates for the placard find were provided by Carroll Hicks. This spot is west of the FBI flight path.

Nothing has been found in the FBI's search area after 47 years. The money was found on Tena Bar which is upstream from the search area.

If the pilots flew south from Maylay directly to Canby this lines up with the Hicks' placard find, Tena Bar money find and west-of-Portland staging area.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

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Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #1430 on: March 24, 2019, 12:10:26 PM »
I think it's on track now?
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #1431 on: March 24, 2019, 12:10:55 PM »
where do you see the placard west of the flight path?
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #1432 on: March 24, 2019, 12:14:08 PM »
Quote
Why people like to think water is a magnet is beyond me.  Lake Merwin or the Columbia are islands in a sea of land.  Parachutes don't seek out water like humans do going to the beach.

darkness overrules...nobody knows if Cooper knew where he was at any given time. it's all speculation as to his experience.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #1433 on: March 24, 2019, 12:17:57 PM »
Quote
The night of the hijacking, both air traffic control and military radars were following the plane

Extremely hard to counter.....
 

Offline EU

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #1434 on: March 24, 2019, 12:18:35 PM »
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where do you see the placard west of the flight path?

I lifted this image from Tom Kaye's site.

The white line depicts the FBI flight path.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

RFK
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #1435 on: March 24, 2019, 12:23:07 PM »
I would talk with Tom regarding the accuracy of the map..
 

Offline EU

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #1436 on: March 24, 2019, 12:23:40 PM »
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Quote
The night of the hijacking, both air traffic control and military radars were following the plane

Extremely hard to counter.....

The radio transcripts released by the FBI show that the guy in Portland tracking the jet was also the guy who organized the chase planes meeting up west of Portland. I other words, he was multi-tasking and coordinating a few things in addition to tracking the flight. It seems likely that he was not tracking the flight precisely given his other tasks.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

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Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #1437 on: March 24, 2019, 12:25:13 PM »
Understanding the flight path is a critical first step in determining the history of the money and how it became buried on Tena Bar. The various lines of evidence all point to the original FBI flight path as accurate and do not support the Tena Bar overflight or Washougal Washdown Theory. This research finds no reason to believe that the FBI fight path or the jump zone was in error. This does however create a large obstacle in explaining how the money came to rest on Tena Bar. The flight path information along with other research presented here, provides no support for naturally transporting the bundles to Tena Bar via the Columbia River. This leaves only a mechanical or human explanation. The human explanation has historically been ruled out due to the belief that Cooper died in the jump. After 40 years, no body or other evidence has ever been found, suggesting that the idea Cooper died in the jump may be in error. A mechanical explanation has additional obstacles, so the processes that transported the money out of the woods and then twenty miles to the sand bar remains a mystery.
 

Offline EU

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #1438 on: March 24, 2019, 12:26:01 PM »
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I would talk with Tom regarding the accuracy of the map..

What part of the map are you disputing?

Also, upon speaking with R99 he says the placard free-fall analysis conducted by him--and presented in this image--was very conservative. In fact, he believes the jet was further west then depicted on the map.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

RFK
 

Offline EU

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #1439 on: March 24, 2019, 12:28:41 PM »
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This research finds no reason to believe that the FBI fight path or the jump zone was in error.

This is clearly incorrect. After all, the placard find is pretty convincing evidence that the flight path was wrong. Not to mention, the Tena Bar money find also indicates the flight path was wrong.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

RFK