Author Topic: Eric Ulis (You Tube Channel)  (Read 1551 times)

Offline Robert99

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Re: Eric Ulis (You Tube Channel)
« Reply #30 on: May 10, 2019, 01:00:06 AM »
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Robert, are you saying there was no reason to track the flight with radar? There was no reason to track a hijacked flight with a criminal threatening to blow the plane up and the criminal had a parachute and a plausible way out of the aircraft?

No.  As I understand it, SAGE is part of a weapon system and I presume it would be devoted to unknown aircraft approaching the USA and not to airline traffic taking off from SEATAC.  Also, I presume that SAGE has its own dedicated radar system and would not be a part of the FAA Air Traffic Control radar network.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Eric Ulis (You Tube Channel)
« Reply #31 on: May 10, 2019, 01:22:09 AM »
The Air Force was already involved prior to taking off from Seattle, correct? it appears this would have been a benefit for them to track the plane. it was designed for a different purpose but they were involved in it none the less. I find it hard to believe they were half involved? they also have the same radar system Seatac and other airports have, right? ever wonder if they checked them both for accuracy?
 

Offline EU

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Re: Eric Ulis (You Tube Channel)
« Reply #32 on: May 10, 2019, 01:24:15 AM »
I asked a couple of pretty straightforward questions about why the need for FDR info and transcript info if being tracked by SAGE. Moreover, what about the F-106's inability to travel as slow as 200 MPH? How do we actually know SAGE was used? Who said so?
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Eric Ulis (You Tube Channel)
« Reply #33 on: May 10, 2019, 01:28:40 AM »
I've posted several parts in the 302's where the Sage is mentioned..along with the Air Force making the map...
 

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Re: Eric Ulis (You Tube Channel)
« Reply #34 on: May 10, 2019, 01:35:10 AM »
Yes, I'm trying to understand what transpired because I'm convinced something got F'd up. As the DB Cooper Bite mentions, I'm not convinced that SAGE was used. I base this upon the things I brought up in the vid. That said, I really don't know but I am convinced somebody got something wrong somewhere.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

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Offline EU

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Re: Eric Ulis (You Tube Channel)
« Reply #35 on: May 10, 2019, 11:54:56 AM »
Daily DB Cooper Bite. I discuss the FBI's decision to close the case unsolved.

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Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

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Offline Robert99

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Re: Eric Ulis (You Tube Channel)
« Reply #36 on: May 10, 2019, 02:28:53 PM »
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The Air Force was already involved prior to taking off from Seattle, correct? it appears this would have been a benefit for them to track the plane. it was designed for a different purpose but they were involved in it none the less. I find it hard to believe they were half involved? they also have the same radar system Seatac and other airports have, right? ever wonder if they checked them both for accuracy?

When all else fails, go to Wiki and search for "SAGE radar stations" or some such thing.  It turns out that SAGE was intended for use with the F-106 aircraft.  Since the F-106's didn't work out in the hijacking, it is probable that SAGE wasn't used either.

In all probability, just the radar from local stations was available and they were not able to follow the airliner all the time due to the mountains in the northwest part of the country and the fact that the airliner was below mountain tops in some areas.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Eric Ulis (You Tube Channel)
« Reply #37 on: May 10, 2019, 04:24:16 PM »
Yes, it was intended to track and destroy aircraft that didn't belong in our airspace. that doesn't mean the radar system only relied on the planes while in the air. it was designed to work with the planes to get to it's target. the Sage guided them to the position. if they had problems with the plane that evening it doesn't mean the radar wasn't tracking properly...
 

Offline georger

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Re: Eric Ulis (You Tube Channel)
« Reply #38 on: May 10, 2019, 05:55:25 PM »
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Yes, it was intended to track and destroy aircraft that didn't belong in our airspace. that doesn't mean the radar system only relied on the planes while in the air. it was designed to work with the planes to get to it's target. the Sage guided them to the position. if they had problems with the plane that evening it doesn't mean the radar wasn't tracking properly...

Agree - here here! The system was more than adequate to tracking any plane within its range.
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Eric Ulis (You Tube Channel)
« Reply #39 on: May 11, 2019, 01:25:06 AM »
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Yes, it was intended to track and destroy aircraft that didn't belong in our airspace. that doesn't mean the radar system only relied on the planes while in the air. it was designed to work with the planes to get to it's target. the Sage guided them to the position. if they had problems with the plane that evening it doesn't mean the radar wasn't tracking properly...

Agree - here here! The system was more than adequate to tracking any plane within its range.

Okay, what was its range?  And where was the SAGE radar located?  Further, radar cannot penetrate mountain ranges.
 

Offline georger

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Re: Eric Ulis (You Tube Channel)
« Reply #40 on: May 11, 2019, 05:17:13 AM »
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Yes, it was intended to track and destroy aircraft that didn't belong in our airspace. that doesn't mean the radar system only relied on the planes while in the air. it was designed to work with the planes to get to it's target. the Sage guided them to the position. if they had problems with the plane that evening it doesn't mean the radar wasn't tracking properly...

Agree - here here! The system was more than adequate to tracking any plane within its range.

Okay, what was its range?  And where was the SAGE radar located?  Further, radar cannot penetrate mountain ranges.

So you are claiming SAGE had no range or inadequate range, couldnt see through mountains, and was located in the wrong place. Anything else!?  :rofl:
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Eric Ulis (You Tube Channel)
« Reply #41 on: May 11, 2019, 08:24:49 AM »
Sage had over 90 radar locations. they varied in purpose. some where long range radar. some were direction centers and then you had gap fillers for low altitude aircraft.

They were aware of what was in the sky. for civilian and military flights, flight plans were provided by the Air Movement Information Service of the FAA. a further step in positive aircraft tracking and identification was through mark X  SIF. (selective identification feature) which was an upgrade from IFF (Identification of friend or foe)

If they failed to identify anything in the sky. it was marked as unknown and planes were scrambled for visual inspection.
 

Offline EU

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Re: Eric Ulis (You Tube Channel)
« Reply #42 on: May 11, 2019, 08:58:09 AM »
I would be interested in knowing several things regarding this SAGE stuff as it relates to the flight path. After all, my understanding is that SAGE was a stand-alone system:

1) Is there anything from the Air Force that actually states SAGE was used? Not just hearsay mentioned in FBI 302s.

2) What actual method(s) was used to put the flight path together? In other words, was there some sort of radar tracing pattern recorded whereby they could "rewind" the recording and literally see the flight path traced on a radar screen? Or, was it a matter of crunching numbers and data, after the fact, to arrive at plot points?

3) Why is it that we have been told that the F-106s couldn't fly as slow as 305 considering 305 was flying at nearly 200 miles per hour?

4) Why is it that flight recorder data was used from N467US to help reconstruct the flight path?

5) Why were radio transcripts used to help reconstruct the flight path?

6) What role did Northwest Orient personnel play in reconstructing the flight path and why?

7) Why are there 19 redactions in the flight transcripts, all of them related to the critical portion of the flight when DBC jumped?

8) Why are the timing plots along the flight path in question--wasn't radar data time-stamped? How do they explain the missing plot at 20:04?
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

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Offline Shutter

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Re: Eric Ulis (You Tube Channel)
« Reply #43 on: May 11, 2019, 08:59:22 AM »

Since 1958 the Air Force and FAA have had joint use of radars and control centers for air defense and traffic control functions.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Eric Ulis (You Tube Channel)
« Reply #44 on: May 11, 2019, 09:12:00 AM »
The 302's are not "hearsay" they are documented files of things that occurred during the investigation. they are not assumptions. that would be "gossip files"

To gain information about anything you compile everything surrounding the event. that's like saying a gun used in a crime was a .45 caliber and leaving it at that without testing it to insure it was that gun used in the crime.

To get an accurate location of something you would obviously use every tool available.

We have now raised the level of parties that are incompetent to not just the FBI but the Air Force. who else are we much smarter than? are we sure the plane wasn't a DC-9?