Author Topic: DB Cooper: The Definitive Investigation  (Read 10786 times)

georger

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Re: DB Cooper: The Definitive Investigation
« Reply #330 on: August 10, 2018, 01:32:20 AM »
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The other thing that I'm having a difficult time grasping is how a dredge layer could be underneath the money. What I mean is this: The top layer itself would have to be the dredge layer if indeed the dredge spoils were distributed or migrated to where the money was found. After all, it there was a second layer on top of the dredge layer this would imply that new sand would have to have been deposited on top of the 1974 dredge layer. This makes no sense because the beach has been in a state of constant erosion. Simply put, it strikes me as illogical for the top layer to consist of anything other than dredge spoils--if the spoils had been distributed or migrated that far--or, original Tena Bar sand that had yet to erode.

Thats right, in general, and that was Palmer's reading as well. If the dredge layer had been immediately below the top layer (upper active layer of recent arrival) that would have been acceptable. But that is not what Palmer found and how he interpreted things.  Of course Tom says Palmer is dead wrong. Tom says the dredging layer was 99% gone; washed away by 1980.

But, its even more curious. Palmer finds an upper active layer of recent arrival. Then a thicker "cross bedded" layer 8 to 24 inches thick between his two trenches! Cross-bedding equals time no matter how you slice it because cross bedding happens only when multiple layers are being added and worked, which takes time. Depending on how many years the cross bedded layer represent, it assures everything below it is older and, everything above it is recent. That cross bedded layer is a corner stone that establishes some kind of time scale at Tina Bar. What dates does it represent?

If Palmer was wrong and Tom is correct, the cross bedded layer then represents a number of years which makes sense if the layer below it is NOT the dredging layer. You can actually see the cross bedded layer clear as day in one of the FBI (hi res) photos of the trench. It is a thick layer! I also cant understand why Palmer didn't key off of that layer. That layer is a keystone to the whole story, as far as I am concerned. The upper active layer is actually the most recent working part of that whole cross bedded layer. That cross bedded layer may actually contain the last remnant of the old dredging spoils ... from which the money eroded out at the surface after years of erosion.

But, any way you interpret things, any fragments below the upper active layer is a problem. If those frags are in the cross bedded layer then you have a big problem! Those frags may establish the actual date the money arrived at Tina Bar by some means ... which some people vote was the dredging and spreading.     
« Last Edit: August 10, 2018, 01:35:46 AM by georger »
 

georger

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Re: DB Cooper: The Definitive Investigation
« Reply #331 on: August 10, 2018, 02:30:25 AM »
I think the cross bedded layer(s) is crucial. It takes time (years) to lay these layers down in spite of the fact TBar is an active place. Cross bedded layers must connect to an assignable time scale that makes sense. Palmer would have known that but he says nothing about it. Nada. Tom's scenario makes more sense in terms of the large cross bedded layer - Palmer's scenario fails to account for the cross bedded layer, and it may even conflict with its existence.

One fragment of money in the cross bedded layer even directly underneath the Ingram find, poses a problem.   
 

Robert99

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Re: DB Cooper: The Definitive Investigation
« Reply #332 on: August 10, 2018, 02:01:23 PM »
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I think the cross bedded layer(s) is crucial. It takes time (years) to lay these layers down in spite of the fact TBar is an active place. Cross bedded layers must connect to an assignable time scale that makes sense. Palmer would have known that but he says nothing about it. Nada. Tom's scenario makes more sense in terms of the large cross bedded layer - Palmer's scenario fails to account for the cross bedded layer, and it may even conflict with its existence.

One fragment of money in the cross bedded layer even directly underneath the Ingram find, poses a problem.   

Here are a couple of observations about the money find area at Tina Bar.

The 9 or 10 FBI agents, shown in a picture attached to one of Georger's posts above, seem to be digging their deep hole about the right distance from the water's edge.  The Ingram family members gave at least a couple of versions of where the money was found.  One was that it was just above the tide line and the other one was that it was near the tree line.  The small trees shown in that picture are dead and would head downstream probably during the next high water event.  Similiar small trees are also just up the beach from the water line today, but they are definitely not the ones shown in that 1980 photograph.

Tom Kaye has a diagram on his web page showing one bundle of bills with portions of several bills on the bundle top missing.  I have previously referred to these missing bill fragments as having been "torqued" with the remaining portion of the bills being held by a single rubber band at one end.  For this to happen, the bottom of the bundle would have to be constrained in the sand and the upper portion of the bundle exposed to water flow across the width of the bill.  It might take several weeks of relatively low velocity water (such as the Columbia River flow at Tina Bar) to remove the upper bill fragments.  Then something, such as more sand burying the entire bundle, would be required to stop the torquing and to hold the bundle in place until it was found in 1980.

So it seems to be the case that the bundles of the ransom money arrived at Tina Bar at the same time.  One was in such a position and configuration that the water flow took off fragments of several of the bills before the bundle was "frozen" in place until the Ingram family found it.  This total sequence could take several years and require only that the three bundles were probably still in the money bag when it paid a visit to Tina Bar.  The bundles came out of the bag and stayed at Tina Bar until they were found.  The money bag, the rest of the money, and maybe Cooper as well, then continued on down the river.

Does anyone on this thread have experience in river flows and comparing river water levels". 
« Last Edit: August 10, 2018, 02:06:06 PM by Robert99 »
 
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georger

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Re: DB Cooper: The Definitive Investigation
« Reply #333 on: August 10, 2018, 03:34:07 PM »
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I think the cross bedded layer(s) is crucial. It takes time (years) to lay these layers down in spite of the fact TBar is an active place. Cross bedded layers must connect to an assignable time scale that makes sense. Palmer would have known that but he says nothing about it. Nada. Tom's scenario makes more sense in terms of the large cross bedded layer - Palmer's scenario fails to account for the cross bedded layer, and it may even conflict with its existence.

One fragment of money in the cross bedded layer even directly underneath the Ingram find, poses a problem.   

Here are a couple of observations about the money find area at Tina Bar.

The 9 or 10 FBI agents, shown in a picture attached to one of Georger's posts above, seem to be digging their deep hole about the right distance from the water's edge.  The Ingram family members gave at least a couple of versions of where the money was found.  One was that it was just above the tide line and the other one was that it was near the tree line.  The small trees shown in that picture are dead and would head downstream probably during the next high water event.  Similiar small trees are also just up the beach from the water line today, but they are definitely not the ones shown in that 1980 photograph.

Tom Kaye has a diagram on his web page showing one bundle of bills with portions of several bills on the bundle top missing.  I have previously referred to these missing bill fragments as having been "torqued" with the remaining portion of the bills being held by a single rubber band at one end.  For this to happen, the bottom of the bundle would have to be constrained in the sand and the upper portion of the bundle exposed to water flow across the width of the bill.  It might take several weeks of relatively low velocity water (such as the Columbia River flow at Tina Bar) to remove the upper bill fragments.  Then something, such as more sand burying the entire bundle, would be required to stop the torquing and to hold the bundle in place until it was found in 1980.

So it seems to be the case that the bundles of the ransom money arrived at Tina Bar at the same time.  One was in such a position and configuration that the water flow took off fragments of several of the bills before the bundle was "frozen" in place until the Ingram family found it.  This total sequence could take several years and require only that the three bundles were probably still in the money bag when it paid a visit to Tina Bar.  The bundles came out of the bag and stayed at Tina Bar until they were found.  The money bag, the rest of the money, and maybe Cooper as well, then continued on down the river.

Does anyone on this thread have experience in river flows and comparing river water levels".

I think your observations are valid. The net effect is erosive forces working on the bundles over time. But how much time? Days, weeks, months, years? The location of the money is important in guessing which erosive forces from what direction, were at work. All of this is occurring in time. Once the bundles are exposed to forces at the surface the process speeds up. Another couple of years and there might not have been anything for anyone to find.

Which location is correct - Harold's or Crystal's ? Close to the water line or further up where Brian is photographed for the newspapers?

The press photo of Brian may be a bit deceiving. Was the incline as great at TBar as shown in the press photo? A lot of people have questioned that photo. Crystal said that location was where Harold had walked off to to take a leak; not where the kids and the campfire were, near the water line.  The people who actually Harold out to Tina Bar to identify the location are no longer alive to talk to. Very likely one of those people was the older agent at Vancouver. But! There has to be notes and files on that! (Where are they? Who has them?) All Schreuder knows is that when he and several other agents got out to the bar 'someone' had driven a stake at the presumed location, Harold had identified. But when this happened on the first day, nobody had heard Crystal's version of the find. The excavation was already in progress when Crystal called Himmelsbach several days later.

There were TWO press photos taken of Brian, depicting two different versions of his find story. One the Getty image showing Brian moving sand with his hand (Harold's story), and another where he is holding a stick probing the sand with a stick (which is what Crystal Ingram described)! Which photo is the true account?   
« Last Edit: August 10, 2018, 03:44:17 PM by georger »
 

georger

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Re: DB Cooper: The Definitive Investigation
« Reply #334 on: August 10, 2018, 03:48:10 PM »
Flyjack says in the money thread... !!!!!!


Offline FLYJACK

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
Reply #3836 on: Today at 03:39:14 PM

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TBAR..

My lead theory which is consistent with the known evidence..

The money landed on TBAR between 1974 and 1978.
It was in 3 packages/packets of 100 bills each.
Initially there were paper bank bands on each package/packet.
The 3 packages/packets formed a single (randomized by Bank) bundle with rubber bands at two locations around all.
It would have been about 1.5" inches thick.

The 100% paper bands completely deteriorated and the rubber bands broke apart leaving 3 packets/packages askew with remnants of rubber bands attached to the money.

Ckret got it wrong conflating bundles and packages/packets and threw everyone off.
There was no bag.

How they got there is for another day.
 

georger

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Re: DB Cooper: The Definitive Investigation
« Reply #335 on: August 10, 2018, 03:54:35 PM »
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Flyjack says in the money thread... !!!!!!


Offline FLYJACK

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
Reply #3836 on: Today at 03:39:14 PM

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TBAR..

My lead theory which is consistent with the known evidence..

The money landed on TBAR between 1974 and 1978.
It was in 3 packages/packets of 100 bills each.
Initially there were paper bank bands on each package/packet.
The 3 packages/packets formed a single (randomized by Bank) bundle with rubber bands at two locations around all.
It would have been about 1.5" inches thick.

The 100% paper bands completely deteriorated and the rubber bands broke apart leaving 3 packets/packages askew with remnants of rubber bands attached to the money.

Ckret got it wrong conflating bundles and packages/packets and threw everyone off.
There was no bag.

How they got there is for another day.

so, the money packets or bundles or packages or parcels or whatever ... was never in a bank bag as per Ckret and every testimony known in this case? Or do I not understand your French semantics sentence structure today, again?

Tina never brought in a bank bag on the plane from Al Lee?  What did she bring in? A suitcase? A suitcase wrapped in paper bank bands?

Just trying to understand again whatever it is you are trying to say.

God this is exhausting!  :rofl:
 
(maybe this would work better using hand signs and flags? Smoke signals?)
« Last Edit: August 10, 2018, 04:05:55 PM by georger »
 

Offline FLYJACK

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Re: DB Cooper: The Definitive Investigation
« Reply #336 on: August 10, 2018, 04:10:13 PM »
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Flyjack says in the money thread... !!!!!!


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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
Reply #3836 on: Today at 03:39:14 PM

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TBAR..

My lead theory which is consistent with the known evidence..

The money landed on TBAR between 1974 and 1978.
It was in 3 packages/packets of 100 bills each.
Initially there were paper bank bands on each package/packet.
The 3 packages/packets formed a single (randomized by Bank) bundle with rubber bands at two locations around all.
It would have been about 1.5" inches thick.

The 100% paper bands completely deteriorated and the rubber bands broke apart leaving 3 packets/packages askew with remnants of rubber bands attached to the money.

Ckret got it wrong conflating bundles and packages/packets and threw everyone off.
There was no bag.

How they got there is for another day.

so, the money packets or bundles or packages or parcels or whatever ... was never in a bank bag as per Ckret and every testimony known in this case? Or do I not understand your French semantics sentence structure today, again?

Tina never brought in a bank bag on the plane from Al Lee?  What did she bring in? A suitcase? A suitcase wrapped in paper bank bands?

Just trying to understand again whatever it is you are trying to say.

God this is exhausting!  :rofl:
 

ok,, clarification

They are separate.. 

Ckret got the bundles and packages/packets conflated.. bundles were randomized and re-banded by bank. Not the packets of 100.

AND

There was no bag/container needed, most believe/theorize that a money bag had to have held the three packages together to be found that close. If the 3 packages/packets were a single banded bundle rather than individual then no bag needed.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2018, 04:10:56 PM by FLYJACK »
 

Offline EU

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Re: DB Cooper: The Definitive Investigation
« Reply #337 on: August 10, 2018, 04:38:02 PM »
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I think the cross bedded layer(s) is crucial. It takes time (years) to lay these layers down in spite of the fact TBar is an active place. Cross bedded layers must connect to an assignable time scale that makes sense. Palmer would have known that but he says nothing about it. Nada. Tom's scenario makes more sense in terms of the large cross bedded layer - Palmer's scenario fails to account for the cross bedded layer, and it may even conflict with its existence.

One fragment of money in the cross bedded layer even directly underneath the Ingram find, poses a problem.   

Here are a couple of observations about the money find area at Tina Bar.

The 9 or 10 FBI agents, shown in a picture attached to one of Georger's posts above, seem to be digging their deep hole about the right distance from the water's edge.  The Ingram family members gave at least a couple of versions of where the money was found.  One was that it was just above the tide line and the other one was that it was near the tree line.  The small trees shown in that picture are dead and would head downstream probably during the next high water event.  Similiar small trees are also just up the beach from the water line today, but they are definitely not the ones shown in that 1980 photograph.

Tom Kaye has a diagram on his web page showing one bundle of bills with portions of several bills on the bundle top missing.  I have previously referred to these missing bill fragments as having been "torqued" with the remaining portion of the bills being held by a single rubber band at one end.  For this to happen, the bottom of the bundle would have to be constrained in the sand and the upper portion of the bundle exposed to water flow across the width of the bill.  It might take several weeks of relatively low velocity water (such as the Columbia River flow at Tina Bar) to remove the upper bill fragments.  Then something, such as more sand burying the entire bundle, would be required to stop the torquing and to hold the bundle in place until it was found in 1980.

So it seems to be the case that the bundles of the ransom money arrived at Tina Bar at the same time.  One was in such a position and configuration that the water flow took off fragments of several of the bills before the bundle was "frozen" in place until the Ingram family found it.  This total sequence could take several years and require only that the three bundles were probably still in the money bag when it paid a visit to Tina Bar.  The bundles came out of the bag and stayed at Tina Bar until they were found.  The money bag, the rest of the money, and maybe Cooper as well, then continued on down the river.

Does anyone on this thread have experience in river flows and comparing river water levels".

Let me tell you how I interpret this info.

The money was buried by Cooper (of course, everyone knows I believe Cooper was Sheridan Peterson) and later retrieved. During the retrieval--perhaps extraction is a better word--process, three bundles were accidentally left behind in the hole and reburied. I believe the "torquing" you refer to above took place during this extraction and reburial process. For the bills to get "misaligned" at this time makes sense to me.

At this point the bills are "set." For years the bills are "set" and do not move. Ultimately the bills fuse together and seriously degrade but this process takes several years. In fact, I believe TK proved this process would take several years given that when they unearthed their test bundle after 33 months there was virtually no sign of degradation.

Fast forward to 1980. By the time erosion had stripped away the several inches of sand on top of the bundles the bundles had fused and dramatically degraded. However, given that the bundles were still "set," everything was still in place, even the rubber bands which had dramatically degraded by this time as well.

I then believe wave action finally exposed  the top bills to the elements. At this point, any wave activity would quickly begin to strip away the degraded bill pieces which would now be free to migrate because they are no longer buried. Additionally, given the advanced degree of degradation, I wouldn't be surprised if a few hours of constant wave activity--even slight wave activity--fully displaced the portions of the bills that were missing when the money was discovered. Simply put, I think it is likely that the bundles had only very recently been unearthed and the missing portions of the bills washed away before the Ingrams discovered them.

I believe the money arrived on Tena Bar Wednesday, November 24, 1971.
 

Robert99

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Re: DB Cooper: The Definitive Investigation
« Reply #338 on: August 10, 2018, 04:39:21 PM »
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Flyjack says in the money thread... !!!!!!


Offline FLYJACK

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
Reply #3836 on: Today at 03:39:14 PM

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TBAR..

My lead theory which is consistent with the known evidence..

The money landed on TBAR between 1974 and 1978.
It was in 3 packages/packets of 100 bills each.
Initially there were paper bank bands on each package/packet.
The 3 packages/packets formed a single (randomized by Bank) bundle with rubber bands at two locations around all.
It would have been about 1.5" inches thick.

The 100% paper bands completely deteriorated and the rubber bands broke apart leaving 3 packets/packages askew with remnants of rubber bands attached to the money.

Ckret got it wrong conflating bundles and packages/packets and threw everyone off.
There was no bag.

How they got there is for another day.

so, the money packets or bundles or packages or parcels or whatever ... was never in a bank bag as per Ckret and every testimony known in this case? Or do I not understand your French semantics sentence structure today, again?

Tina never brought in a bank bag on the plane from Al Lee?  What did she bring in? A suitcase? A suitcase wrapped in paper bank bands?

Just trying to understand again whatever it is you are trying to say.

God this is exhausting!  :rofl:
 

ok,, clarification

They are separate.. 

Ckret got the bundles and packages/packets conflated.. bundles were randomized and re-banded by bank. Not the packets of 100.

AND

There was no bag/container needed, most believe/theorize that a money bag had to have held the three packages together to be found that close. If the 3 packages/packets were a single banded bundle rather than individual then no bag needed.

But there was a bag involved.  Tina carried it aboard the aircraft, Cooper took some money out of it to examine the bills, and the last time she saw Cooper (as she was headed for the cockpit) he was tieing the bag around his waist.  The people who found the money always refer to rubber bands and not paper bands.
 

Robert99

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Re: DB Cooper: The Definitive Investigation
« Reply #339 on: August 10, 2018, 04:46:57 PM »
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I think the cross bedded layer(s) is crucial. It takes time (years) to lay these layers down in spite of the fact TBar is an active place. Cross bedded layers must connect to an assignable time scale that makes sense. Palmer would have known that but he says nothing about it. Nada. Tom's scenario makes more sense in terms of the large cross bedded layer - Palmer's scenario fails to account for the cross bedded layer, and it may even conflict with its existence.

One fragment of money in the cross bedded layer even directly underneath the Ingram find, poses a problem.   

Here are a couple of observations about the money find area at Tina Bar.

The 9 or 10 FBI agents, shown in a picture attached to one of Georger's posts above, seem to be digging their deep hole about the right distance from the water's edge.  The Ingram family members gave at least a couple of versions of where the money was found.  One was that it was just above the tide line and the other one was that it was near the tree line.  The small trees shown in that picture are dead and would head downstream probably during the next high water event.  Similiar small trees are also just up the beach from the water line today, but they are definitely not the ones shown in that 1980 photograph.

Tom Kaye has a diagram on his web page showing one bundle of bills with portions of several bills on the bundle top missing.  I have previously referred to these missing bill fragments as having been "torqued" with the remaining portion of the bills being held by a single rubber band at one end.  For this to happen, the bottom of the bundle would have to be constrained in the sand and the upper portion of the bundle exposed to water flow across the width of the bill.  It might take several weeks of relatively low velocity water (such as the Columbia River flow at Tina Bar) to remove the upper bill fragments.  Then something, such as more sand burying the entire bundle, would be required to stop the torquing and to hold the bundle in place until it was found in 1980.

So it seems to be the case that the bundles of the ransom money arrived at Tina Bar at the same time.  One was in such a position and configuration that the water flow took off fragments of several of the bills before the bundle was "frozen" in place until the Ingram family found it.  This total sequence could take several years and require only that the three bundles were probably still in the money bag when it paid a visit to Tina Bar.  The bundles came out of the bag and stayed at Tina Bar until they were found.  The money bag, the rest of the money, and maybe Cooper as well, then continued on down the river.

Does anyone on this thread have experience in river flows and comparing river water levels".

Let me tell you how I interpret this info.

The money was buried by Cooper (of course, everyone knows I believe Cooper was Sheridan Peterson) and later retrieved. During the retrieval--perhaps extraction is a better word--process, three bundles were accidentally left behind in the hole and reburied. I believe the "torquing" you refer to above took place during this extraction and reburial process. For the bills to get "misaligned" at this time makes sense to me.

At this point the bills are "set." For years the bills are "set" and do not move. Ultimately the bills fuse together and seriously degrade but this process takes several years. In fact, I believe TK proved this process would take several years given that when they unearthed their test bundle after 33 months there was virtually no sign of degradation.

Fast forward to 1980. By the time erosion had stripped away the several inches of sand on top of the bundles the bundles had fused and dramatically degraded. However, given that the bundles were still "set," everything was still in place, even the rubber bands which had dramatically degraded by this time as well.

I then believe wave action finally exposed  the top bills to the elements. At this point, any wave activity would quickly begin to strip away the degraded bill pieces which would now be free to migrate because they are no longer buried. Additionally, given the advanced degree of degradation, I wouldn't be surprised if a few hours of constant wave activity--even slight wave activity--fully displaced the portions of the bills that were missing when the money was discovered. Simply put, I think it is likely that the bundles had only very recently been unearthed and the missing portions of the bills washed away before the Ingrams discovered them.

I believe the money arrived on Tena Bar Wednesday, November 24, 1971.

If I remember correctly, when the bill bundles were found they were basically compacted into the sand and relatively rigid.  This argues for the bills to have been buried for a lengthy period of time and after the bill fragments had been "torqued" off one bundle.

Also, a year or two ago, a buried bill project was being considered for the Tina Bar area.  But I think it was cancelled in part because no logical way could be determined to locate the bills after a relatively big river runoff.
 

Offline FLYJACK

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Re: DB Cooper: The Definitive Investigation
« Reply #340 on: August 10, 2018, 04:59:23 PM »
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Flyjack says in the money thread... !!!!!!


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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
Reply #3836 on: Today at 03:39:14 PM

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TBAR..

My lead theory which is consistent with the known evidence..

The money landed on TBAR between 1974 and 1978.
It was in 3 packages/packets of 100 bills each.
Initially there were paper bank bands on each package/packet.
The 3 packages/packets formed a single (randomized by Bank) bundle with rubber bands at two locations around all.
It would have been about 1.5" inches thick.

The 100% paper bands completely deteriorated and the rubber bands broke apart leaving 3 packets/packages askew with remnants of rubber bands attached to the money.

Ckret got it wrong conflating bundles and packages/packets and threw everyone off.
There was no bag.

How they got there is for another day.

so, the money packets or bundles or packages or parcels or whatever ... was never in a bank bag as per Ckret and every testimony known in this case? Or do I not understand your French semantics sentence structure today, again?

Tina never brought in a bank bag on the plane from Al Lee?  What did she bring in? A suitcase? A suitcase wrapped in paper bank bands?

Just trying to understand again whatever it is you are trying to say.

God this is exhausting!  :rofl:
 

ok,, clarification

They are separate.. 

Ckret got the bundles and packages/packets conflated.. bundles were randomized and re-banded by bank. Not the packets of 100.

AND

There was no bag/container needed, most believe/theorize that a money bag had to have held the three packages together to be found that close. If the 3 packages/packets were a single banded bundle rather than individual then no bag needed.

But there was a bag involved.  Tina carried it aboard the aircraft, Cooper took some money out of it to examine the bills, and the last time she saw Cooper (as she was headed for the cockpit) he was tieing the bag around his waist.  The people who found the money always refer to rubber bands and not paper bands.

I know, I meant no bag needed at TBAR to keep the 3 packets together if they were one rubber banded bundle.

The 100% paper bands would not last, you would never expect to find any, the rubber band fragments found attached to the money may have come from the rubber bands around all 3 packages/packets not individual packets.

There was no reason to reband the packets of 100, it was the bundles (per Bank) of packets that was randomized and re-banded by the bank.

So, IMO, a single bundle rubber banded in two places of 3 packets of 100 bills landed on TBAR, I believe between 1974-78 but that bleeds into another theory.

Take out the timeframe and this theory fits almost all scenarios. A money bag is not needed to keep the packets together on TBAR.

 
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Offline sry828

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Re: DB Cooper: The Definitive Investigation
« Reply #341 on: August 10, 2018, 05:09:50 PM »
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Flyjack says in the money thread... !!!!!!


Offline FLYJACK

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
Reply #3836 on: Today at 03:39:14 PM

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TBAR..

My lead theory which is consistent with the known evidence..

The money landed on TBAR between 1974 and 1978.
It was in 3 packages/packets of 100 bills each.
Initially there were paper bank bands on each package/packet.
The 3 packages/packets formed a single (randomized by Bank) bundle with rubber bands at two locations around all.
It would have been about 1.5" inches thick.

The 100% paper bands completely deteriorated and the rubber bands broke apart leaving 3 packets/packages askew with remnants of rubber bands attached to the money.

Ckret got it wrong conflating bundles and packages/packets and threw everyone off.
There was no bag.

How they got there is for another day.

so, the money packets or bundles or packages or parcels or whatever ... was never in a bank bag as per Ckret and every testimony known in this case? Or do I not understand your French semantics sentence structure today, again?

Tina never brought in a bank bag on the plane from Al Lee?  What did she bring in? A suitcase? A suitcase wrapped in paper bank bands?

Just trying to understand again whatever it is you are trying to say.

God this is exhausting!  :rofl:
 

ok,, clarification

They are separate.. 

Ckret got the bundles and packages/packets conflated.. bundles were randomized and re-banded by bank. Not the packets of 100.

AND

There was no bag/container needed, most believe/theorize that a money bag had to have held the three packages together to be found that close. If the 3 packages/packets were a single banded bundle rather than individual then no bag needed.

But there was a bag involved.  Tina carried it aboard the aircraft, Cooper took some money out of it to examine the bills, and the last time she saw Cooper (as she was headed for the cockpit) he was tieing the bag around his waist.  The people who found the money always refer to rubber bands and not paper bands.

I know, I meant no bag needed at TBAR to keep the 3 packets together if they were one rubber banded bundle.

The 100% paper bands would not last, you would never expect to find any, the rubber band fragments found attached to the money may have come from the rubber bands around all 3 packages/packets not individual packets.

There was no reason to reband the packets of 100, it was the bundles (per Bank) of packets that was randomized and re-banded by the bank.

So, IMO, a single bundle rubber banded in two places of 3 packets of 100 bills landed on TBAR, I believe between 1974-78 but that bleeds into another theory.

Take out the timeframe and this theory fits almost all scenarios. A money bag is not needed to keep the packets together on TBAR.

Your theory about the three packets of 100 bills individually banded in paper, and then collectively banded in rubber bands, makes perfect sense to me.  I just don't see how that links anything to Hahneman.  Also, if Hahneman was DB, and had to make the jump near TBar when he had planned to make the jump in Mexico, what did he do when he landed?
 

Offline FLYJACK

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Re: DB Cooper: The Definitive Investigation
« Reply #342 on: August 10, 2018, 05:15:33 PM »
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Flyjack says in the money thread... !!!!!!


Offline FLYJACK

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
Reply #3836 on: Today at 03:39:14 PM

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TBAR..

My lead theory which is consistent with the known evidence..

The money landed on TBAR between 1974 and 1978.
It was in 3 packages/packets of 100 bills each.
Initially there were paper bank bands on each package/packet.
The 3 packages/packets formed a single (randomized by Bank) bundle with rubber bands at two locations around all.
It would have been about 1.5" inches thick.

The 100% paper bands completely deteriorated and the rubber bands broke apart leaving 3 packets/packages askew with remnants of rubber bands attached to the money.

Ckret got it wrong conflating bundles and packages/packets and threw everyone off.
There was no bag.

How they got there is for another day.

so, the money packets or bundles or packages or parcels or whatever ... was never in a bank bag as per Ckret and every testimony known in this case? Or do I not understand your French semantics sentence structure today, again?

Tina never brought in a bank bag on the plane from Al Lee?  What did she bring in? A suitcase? A suitcase wrapped in paper bank bands?

Just trying to understand again whatever it is you are trying to say.

God this is exhausting!  :rofl:
 

ok,, clarification

They are separate.. 

Ckret got the bundles and packages/packets conflated.. bundles were randomized and re-banded by bank. Not the packets of 100.

AND

There was no bag/container needed, most believe/theorize that a money bag had to have held the three packages together to be found that close. If the 3 packages/packets were a single banded bundle rather than individual then no bag needed.

But there was a bag involved.  Tina carried it aboard the aircraft, Cooper took some money out of it to examine the bills, and the last time she saw Cooper (as she was headed for the cockpit) he was tieing the bag around his waist.  The people who found the money always refer to rubber bands and not paper bands.

I know, I meant no bag needed at TBAR to keep the 3 packets together if they were one rubber banded bundle.

The 100% paper bands would not last, you would never expect to find any, the rubber band fragments found attached to the money may have come from the rubber bands around all 3 packages/packets not individual packets.

There was no reason to reband the packets of 100, it was the bundles (per Bank) of packets that was randomized and re-banded by the bank.

So, IMO, a single bundle rubber banded in two places of 3 packets of 100 bills landed on TBAR, I believe between 1974-78 but that bleeds into another theory.

Take out the timeframe and this theory fits almost all scenarios. A money bag is not needed to keep the packets together on TBAR.

Your theory about the three packets of 100 bills individually banded in paper, and then collectively banded in rubber bands, makes perfect sense to me.  I just don't see how that links anything to Hahneman.  Also, if Hahneman was DB, and had to make the jump near TBar when he had planned to make the jump in Mexico, what did he do when he landed?

you are 100% correct, it doesn't link anything to Hahneman...  it could be true for any suspect.

the rest of your QN should be in the other thread.. this is for the SP theory
 

Robert99

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Re: DB Cooper: The Definitive Investigation
« Reply #343 on: August 10, 2018, 05:19:18 PM »
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Your theory about the three packets of 100 bills individually banded in paper, and then collectively banded in rubber bands, makes perfect sense to me.  I just don't see how that links anything to Hahneman.  Also, if Hahneman was DB, and had to make the jump near TBar when he had planned to make the jump in Mexico, what did he do when he landed?

In my humble opinion, the first thing Cooper did when he landed was to stop breathing.
 

Offline EU

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Re: DB Cooper: The Definitive Investigation
« Reply #344 on: August 10, 2018, 05:41:56 PM »
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Your theory about the three packets of 100 bills individually banded in paper, and then collectively banded in rubber bands, makes perfect sense to me.  I just don't see how that links anything to Hahneman.  Also, if Hahneman was DB, and had to make the jump near TBar when he had planned to make the jump in Mexico, what did he do when he landed?

In my humble opinion, the first thing Cooper did when he landed was to stop breathing.

I love it. That's great.