Poll

How did the money arrive on Tena Bar

River Flooding
1 (5%)
Floated to it's resting spot via Columbia river
2 (10%)
Planted
6 (30%)
Dredge
11 (55%)
tossed in the river in a paper bag
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 17

Voting closed: August 16, 2016, 09:05:28 AM

Author Topic: Tina Bar Money Find  (Read 408453 times)

Offline Robert99

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4380 on: September 03, 2019, 04:54:18 PM »
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This is all well known and documented. Between 1970-1980 the find site was never under water in the Columbia River. Other people's speculations and claims are irrelevant and wrong.
 

This is just more baloney from Georger!  He posted a chart recently that disproves his own claim!

In mid-February 1980 when the FBI was working at the Tina Bar site, the Columbia River level there was well below 5 feet above sea level.  The Ingrams indicated they found the money close to the river water line.  From all appearances, the FBI people were generally never more than about 2 or 3 feet above the river water level.  Admittedly, the FBI expert did move up into the trees as he attempted to determine the layers of earth at the site.

The Columbia River water level data is available from the National Weather Service from about 1973 to well past 1980.  I downloaded it several years ago but don't have it at the present time.  However, if I can find that link, I will post it and everyone on this site can judge for themselves what the level was at the Tina Bar site.

Kermit should be able to set Georger straight based on his own knowledge of the river level from 1971 to the present time.
 

Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4381 on: September 03, 2019, 05:46:13 PM »
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Quote

This is all well known and documented. Between 1970-1980 the find site was never under water in the Columbia River. Other people's speculations and claims are irrelevant and wrong.
 

This is just more baloney from Georger!  He posted a chart recently that disproves his own claim!

In mid-February 1980 when the FBI was working at the Tina Bar site, the Columbia River level there was well below 5 feet above sea level.  The Ingrams indicated they found the money close to the river water line.  From all appearances, the FBI people were generally never more than about 2 or 3 feet above the river water level.  Admittedly, the FBI expert did move up into the trees as he attempted to determine the layers of earth at the site.

The Columbia River water level data is available from the National Weather Service from about 1973 to well past 1980.  I downloaded it several years ago but don't have it at the present time.  However, if I can find that link, I will post it and everyone on this site can judge for themselves what the level was at the Tina Bar site.

Kermit should be able to set Georger straight based on his own knowledge of the river level from 1971 to the present time.

LEARN HOW TO POST! YOUR POSY EDITORIAL VIOLATES FORUM STANDARDS.

ARE YOU BLIND! ?

You blurt: "The Ingrams indicated they found the money close to the river water line"

Fact: Only Crystal Ingram contended that! You apparently havent read forum posts since 2003! So go back and read the thread. Forget me! I thought you knew this material?

The FBI staked out the Ingram find site at 40ft above the water line. Now maybe the Ingrams were lying? But you know more than anyone about this so . . . .  post away ...... but post in forum standards after the {/quote} marker? Do you see it?  ;) 

Have you got more incompetent moral advice for Florida hurricane victims today!?   :rofl:

Have you got any more incompetent comments to make about my senility!?   :rofl:

Cheers! 
« Last Edit: September 03, 2019, 06:12:15 PM by georger »
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4382 on: September 03, 2019, 07:22:58 PM »
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Quote

This is all well known and documented. Between 1970-1980 the find site was never under water in the Columbia River. Other people's speculations and claims are irrelevant and wrong.
 

This is just more baloney from Georger!  He posted a chart recently that disproves his own claim!

In mid-February 1980 when the FBI was working at the Tina Bar site, the Columbia River level there was well below 5 feet above sea level.  The Ingrams indicated they found the money close to the river water line.  From all appearances, the FBI people were generally never more than about 2 or 3 feet above the river water level.  Admittedly, the FBI expert did move up into the trees as he attempted to determine the layers of earth at the site.

The Columbia River water level data is available from the National Weather Service from about 1973 to well past 1980.  I downloaded it several years ago but don't have it at the present time.  However, if I can find that link, I will post it and everyone on this site can judge for themselves what the level was at the Tina Bar site.

Kermit should be able to set Georger straight based on his own knowledge of the river level from 1971 to the present time.

LEARN HOW TO POST! YOUR POSY EDITORIAL VIOLATES FORUM STANDARDS.

ARE YOU BLIND! ?

You blurt: "The Ingrams indicated they found the money close to the river water line"

Fact: Only Crystal Ingram contended that! You apparently havent read forum posts since 2003! So go back and read the thread. Forget me! I thought you knew this material?

The FBI staked out the Ingram find site at 40ft above the water line. Now maybe the Ingrams were lying? But you know more than anyone about this so . . . .  post away ...... but post in forum standards after the {/quote} marker? Do you see it?  ;) 

Have you got more incompetent moral advice for Florida hurricane victims today!?   :rofl:

Have you got any more incompetent comments to make about my senility!?   :rofl:

Cheers!

Forty feet ABOVE the water line?  That is nonsense.  If that were the case, Portland International Airport (which is 30 feet above sea level) would have been under 10 feet of water.

The FBI probably staked things up to 40 feet FROM the water line.  That clearly shows in the pictures taken during the days the FBI agents were at Tina Bar.

The highest point in the immediate Tina Bar area is probably no more than 30 feet ABOVE SEA LEVEL.

If you have been reading the posts on this site recently, you should know that my advice to anyone in southern Florida and vicinity is that they should have been making plans for hurricanes when they were drawing up the blue prints for their houses.  You simply don't wait until the day before a hurricane or tornado arrives to start making plans for them.

 

Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4383 on: September 03, 2019, 11:32:43 PM »
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Quote

This is all well known and documented. Between 1970-1980 the find site was never under water in the Columbia River. Other people's speculations and claims are irrelevant and wrong.
 

This is just more baloney from Georger!  He posted a chart recently that disproves his own claim!

In mid-February 1980 when the FBI was working at the Tina Bar site, the Columbia River level there was well below 5 feet above sea level.  The Ingrams indicated they found the money close to the river water line.  From all appearances, the FBI people were generally never more than about 2 or 3 feet above the river water level.  Admittedly, the FBI expert did move up into the trees as he attempted to determine the layers of earth at the site.

The Columbia River water level data is available from the National Weather Service from about 1973 to well past 1980.  I downloaded it several years ago but don't have it at the present time.  However, if I can find that link, I will post it and everyone on this site can judge for themselves what the level was at the Tina Bar site.

Kermit should be able to set Georger straight based on his own knowledge of the river level from 1971 to the present time.

LEARN HOW TO POST! YOUR POSY EDITORIAL VIOLATES FORUM STANDARDS.

ARE YOU BLIND! ?

You blurt: "The Ingrams indicated they found the money close to the river water line"

Fact: Only Crystal Ingram contended that! You apparently havent read forum posts since 2003! So go back and read the thread. Forget me! I thought you knew this material?

The FBI staked out the Ingram find site at 40ft above the water line. Now maybe the Ingrams were lying? But you know more than anyone about this so . . . .  post away ...... but post in forum standards after the {/quote} marker? Do you see it?  ;) 

Have you got more incompetent moral advice for Florida hurricane victims today!?   :rofl:

Have you got any more incompetent comments to make about my senility!?   :rofl:

Cheers!

Forty feet ABOVE the water line?  That is nonsense.  If that were the case, Portland International Airport (which is 30 feet above sea level) would have been under 10 feet of water.

The FBI probably staked things up to 40 feet FROM the water line.  That clearly shows in the pictures taken during the days the FBI agents were at Tina Bar.

The highest point in the immediate Tina Bar area is probably no more than 30 feet ABOVE SEA LEVEL.

If you have been reading the posts on this site recently, you should know that my advice to anyone in southern Florida and vicinity is that they should have been making plans for hurricanes when they were drawing up the blue prints for their houses.  You simply don't wait until the day before a hurricane or tornado arrives to start making plans for them.

You apparently have lost language skills. Look at the picture.

*No cause for torqued bills is known. We dont even know where in the bundles of bills Tom's sample came from. You keep saying it was water flow pressure. Maybe it was gravity, impact force, dredge pipe pressure, FJ's termites, or a moose, or cattle...  :)   
« Last Edit: September 04, 2019, 12:08:01 AM by georger »
 

Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4384 on: September 03, 2019, 11:51:48 PM »
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Am I alone in seeing the money location being underwater before 1974, thus putting the idea the money was buried there shortly after the hijacking in jeopardy?

How does this put the money being buried on November 24, 1971 in jeopardy? If the money is a foot or two down why would high water in '72 and '74 be a problem?

Since the money was found an inch or two under the sand in 1980, it would have to have been underwater at some point (and probably was several times) before that time.  And that is no problem whatsoever.

Remember that Tom Kaye has posted evidence that one of the packets had been "torqued".  That is, it only had a single band near one end and some of the bills had been rotated with respect to the others and the portion of the bills between the band and the longer end had been torn off and was missing.  This is no problem either.

The torqueing is clear evidence that the packet had been exposed to flowing water.  It would probably require several cycles of drying and wetting to weaken the paper to the point that it tears easily.  It also may indicate that the torqueing was done at a different location.

Tom identified three bills askew or torqued. The rest of the bills underneath the top three were aligned properly. Additionally, apparently this was evident for only one of the three packets.

In my mind this indicates that the bills were buried dry in a hole probably two feet or so deep. The top three bills being askew could easily have happened as the bills were thrown in the hole and buried.

It is apparent that in addition to rain water that migrated from the surface to the bills, there was also river water that occasionally reached the bills during a couple of high-water events. In fact, it appears that there may have only been two high-water events before the money was discovered in 1980--June of 1972 and June of 1974.

This makes perfect sense. In part, because Tom's analysis showed virtually no damage to bills that were buried for 33 months as part of a test. Remember, 377's Cooper twenty--which is a very complete sample--lost about 75% of its original profile due to rotting away while buried. Simply put, this is more evidence that the bills were buried for a very long time.

apparently this was evident for only one of the three packets.

What packets?

Were your packets bound with paper straps or rubber bands, or both? What bank official did you talk to?

What's your definition of a "packet"?  Is a packet a bundle?  Is a packet a parcel?   :))  Were there parcels of packets of bundles? Is packet a prime number?

*Carr used the term bundle.
*The bank people Carr talked to used the word bundle/bundles. No paper straps were involved. Only rubber bands.
*Is 'packet' an official banking term, used by whom/when at what bank?
*Do you know the difference between colloquial use of words vs. technical use of words/terms?
*Was Tina Mucklow a bank employee using technical banking language?
*Were FBI agents using technical banking terms when they wrote or talked about the Cooper ransom money?
*If "parcel" is used in an official FBI 302 is that word being used as a technical banking term, and if so what does the term mean and not mean?
 
« Last Edit: September 04, 2019, 12:22:37 AM by georger »
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4385 on: September 04, 2019, 01:25:54 AM »
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Am I alone in seeing the money location being underwater before 1974, thus putting the idea the money was buried there shortly after the hijacking in jeopardy?

How does this put the money being buried on November 24, 1971 in jeopardy? If the money is a foot or two down why would high water in '72 and '74 be a problem?

Since the money was found an inch or two under the sand in 1980, it would have to have been underwater at some point (and probably was several times) before that time.  And that is no problem whatsoever.

Remember that Tom Kaye has posted evidence that one of the packets had been "torqued".  That is, it only had a single band near one end and some of the bills had been rotated with respect to the others and the portion of the bills between the band and the longer end had been torn off and was missing.  This is no problem either.

The torqueing is clear evidence that the packet had been exposed to flowing water.  It would probably require several cycles of drying and wetting to weaken the paper to the point that it tears easily.  It also may indicate that the torqueing was done at a different location.

Tom identified three bills askew or torqued. The rest of the bills underneath the top three were aligned properly. Additionally, apparently this was evident for only one of the three packets.

In my mind this indicates that the bills were buried dry in a hole probably two feet or so deep. The top three bills being askew could easily have happened as the bills were thrown in the hole and buried.

It is apparent that in addition to rain water that migrated from the surface to the bills, there was also river water that occasionally reached the bills during a couple of high-water events. In fact, it appears that there may have only been two high-water events before the money was discovered in 1980--June of 1972 and June of 1974.

This makes perfect sense. In part, because Tom's analysis showed virtually no damage to bills that were buried for 33 months as part of a test. Remember, 377's Cooper twenty--which is a very complete sample--lost about 75% of its original profile due to rotting away while buried. Simply put, this is more evidence that the bills were buried for a very long time.

apparently this was evident for only one of the three packets.

What packets?

Were your packets bound with paper straps or rubber bands, or both? What bank official did you talk to?

What's your definition of a "packet"?  Is a packet a bundle?  Is a packet a parcel?   :))  Were there parcels of packets of bundles? Is packet a prime number?

*Carr used the term bundle.
*The bank people Carr talked to used the word bundle/bundles. No paper straps were involved. Only rubber bands.
*Is 'packet' an official banking term, used by whom/when at what bank?
*Do you know the difference between colloquial use of words vs. technical use of words/terms?
*Was Tina Mucklow a bank employee using technical banking language?
*Were FBI agents using technical banking terms when they wrote or talked about the Cooper ransom money?
*If "parcel" is used in an official FBI 302 is that word being used as a technical banking term, and if so what does the term mean and not mean?

Georger, just get a good nights sleep.  The world will look different tomorrow.