Author Topic: DB Cooper: The Definitive Investigation  (Read 44176 times)

Offline EU

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Re: DB Cooper: The Definitive Investigation
« Reply #45 on: June 17, 2018, 06:40:39 PM »
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The only person to see his eyes was Flo?? And that was only for a few seconds? One does not confuse bright blue eyes with dark brown eyes.  Eyes are one of those things you don't usually forget.  From everything I've read and been told, he had very distinct dark brown eyes.

Yes, only Flo for a very brief period of time at the very beginning when she thought he was picking up on her and immediately after she sat down at which time she started writing down his demands...hence, "possibly brown." I would like to see other accounts of people talking about his very distinct brown eyes, that said, I know there aren't any.
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Offline fcastle866

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Re: DB Cooper: The Definitive Investigation
« Reply #46 on: June 17, 2018, 09:45:47 PM »
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The only person to see his eyes was Flo?? And that was only for a few seconds? One does not confuse bright blue eyes with dark brown eyes.  Eyes are one of those things you don't usually forget.  From everything I've read and been told, he had very distinct dark brown eyes.

Yes, only Flo for a very brief period of time at the very beginning when she thought he was picking up on her and immediately after she sat down at which time she started writing down his demands...hence, "possibly brown." I would like to see other accounts of people talking about his very distinct brown eyes, that said, I know there aren't any.

The whole eye color piece probably belongs in its own thread.  I quickly looked through the books and notes I have, and could only find mention by Flo of his brown eyes.  Somehow all the narratives have him with brown eyes.  All the stories out there of his eyes being brown may possibly have come from just one quick look by a stewardess before he put his sunglasses on.  Amazing.  I'd like to hear people's thoughts on this one.  If you were him and had blue eyes, you would have been laughing to your grave as they searched for a man with brown eyes.  Or still laughing if you're alive.
 

Offline 377

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Re: DB Cooper: The Definitive Investigation
« Reply #47 on: June 17, 2018, 10:57:35 PM »
If the FBI was certain that Cooper had brown eyes, they would not have investigated a blue-eyed subject, let alone request a DNA sample and investigate his alibis.

377
 
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georger

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Re: DB Cooper: The Definitive Investigation
« Reply #48 on: June 18, 2018, 12:00:10 AM »
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If the FBI was certain that Cooper had brown eyes, they would not have investigated a blue-eyed subject, let alone request a DNA sample and investigate his alibis.

377

I dont agree - the FBI had many reasons to investigate Peterson. For one he fit the leading skills profile at the time.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2018, 12:02:59 AM by georger »
 

Offline EU

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Re: DB Cooper: The Definitive Investigation
« Reply #49 on: June 18, 2018, 12:11:10 AM »
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If the FBI was certain that Cooper had brown eyes, they would not have investigated a blue-eyed subject, let alone request a DNA sample and investigate his alibis.

377


I dont agree - the FBI had many reasons to investigate Peterson.

Fact: Sheridan was one of only three suspects known to have had their DNA compared to Cooper-tie DNA.
Fact: Sheridan is the only one of the three that the FBI has not publicly cleared by virtue of this DNA comparison.
Fact: The FBI sent agents to investigate Sheridan--in the 2000s--in Nepal and Deer Park, WA.
Fact: As of two weeks ago--I asked--the FBI is still unwilling to clear Sheridan even though the case is administratively closed.
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georger

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Re: DB Cooper: The Definitive Investigation
« Reply #50 on: June 18, 2018, 12:30:22 AM »
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If the FBI was certain that Cooper had brown eyes, they would not have investigated a blue-eyed subject, let alone request a DNA sample and investigate his alibis.

377


I dont agree - the FBI had many reasons to investigate Peterson.

Fact: Sheridan was one of only three suspects known to have had their DNA compared to Cooper-tie DNA.
Fact: Sheridan is the only one of the three that the FBI has not publicly cleared by virtue of this DNA comparison.
Fact: The FBI sent agents to investigate Sheridan--in the 2000s--in Nepal and Deer Park, WA.
Fact: As of two weeks ago--I asked--the FBI is still unwilling to clear Sheridan even though the case is administratively closed.

And fact: Sheridan fits the skills set the FBI was most invested in investigating. That is supported by hundreds of 302s released so far.

I also doubt that one round alone, of comparing dna to a partial profile, is enough to eliminate-with-certainty any candidate. One round only would never strand up in Court in a situation where the comparison is being done with a partial. 
« Last Edit: June 18, 2018, 12:36:09 AM by georger »
 

Offline EU

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Re: DB Cooper: The Definitive Investigation
« Reply #51 on: June 18, 2018, 01:01:04 AM »
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If the FBI was certain that Cooper had brown eyes, they would not have investigated a blue-eyed subject, let alone request a DNA sample and investigate his alibis.

377


I dont agree - the FBI had many reasons to investigate Peterson.

Fact: Sheridan was one of only three suspects known to have had their DNA compared to Cooper-tie DNA.
Fact: Sheridan is the only one of the three that the FBI has not publicly cleared by virtue of this DNA comparison.
Fact: The FBI sent agents to investigate Sheridan--in the 2000s--in Nepal and Deer Park, WA.
Fact: As of two weeks ago--I asked--the FBI is still unwilling to clear Sheridan even though the case is administratively closed.

And fact: Sheridan fits the skills set the FBI was most invested in investigating. That is supported by hundreds of 302s released so far.

I also doubt that one round alone, of comparing dna to a partial profile, is enough to eliminate-with-certainty any candidate. One round only would never strand up in Court in a situation where the comparison is being done with a partial.

The FBI isn't absolutely certain that the DNA on Cooper's tie is actually Cooper's. In fact, there are three donors--by definition,at least two are not Cooper. That said, the primary donor sample is from saliva, therefore, likely Cooper's DNA. However, the DNA is inadmissible in Court and is useless for purposes of a prosecution. It does limit the field of prospective suspects for investigative purposes though, perhaps even dramatically.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

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Offline 377

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Re: DB Cooper: The Definitive Investigation
« Reply #52 on: June 18, 2018, 12:27:40 PM »
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If the FBI was certain that Cooper had brown eyes, they would not have investigated a blue-eyed subject, let alone request a DNA sample and investigate his alibis.

377

I dont agree - the FBI had many reasons to investigate Peterson. For one he fit the leading skills profile at the time.

If the FBI was certain that DBC had brown eyes, why would they interrogate and take a DNA sample from a suspect who has the bluest eyes you will ever see? That tells me the FBI absolutely did not consider the brown eye evidence conclusive, but you disagree. Please explain your conclusion further Georger. Thanks.

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FLYJACK

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Re: DB Cooper: The Definitive Investigation
« Reply #53 on: June 18, 2018, 12:31:40 PM »
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Sheridan Petersen ranks low on my list of suspects, not eliminated.. KC and Reca don't even make the list. There are probably thousands of suspects known and unknown that can be made to fit with circumstantial evidence. Some are just better than others..


Problems I have with SP..

Cooper - Latin/Mexican swarthy, marcelled "Nixon" like hair.

Cooper - needed instructions for rear stairs and then had trouble lowering them. Shows lack of knowledge/competence.

Cooper had jump experience but wasn't a top flight jumper. SP was TOO experienced.

SP was a high profile suspect, DNA was taken. DO we know it wasn't compared or just unconfirmed.

No clear exposure to tie environment.

and the totality of the circumstantial evidence that exists for SP is generally weak.



Until the FBI puts some dude on that plane, all we will have is circumstantial evidence.. some better than others.
I actually feel the reasons for eliminating Sheridan are far flimsier than the circumstantial evidence against him. Shaky alibi? Check.  Anyone missing him in the US at that time? Nope, because he was already abroad (could also be significant for laundering purposes - I'm pretty sure, say, Nepalese tellers were not all over the DBC hunt).

The swarthy complexion means - nothing, nothing, nothing. After 2 days in Thailand, I was dark as a coffee bean, and I never tanned a day before in my life with so much Irish blood I look like a mashed potato. After 5-6 years in Southeast Asia, SP HAD to be dark. I've lived in Asian. You will tan. You will burn. You will, if as fair as I, be sick as a dog first.

Marcelled hair, my ass. There, I've said it. That description comes from ONE witness who couldn't even correctly identify which FA sat next to DBC through most of the flight. Paint shop or no, I take everything that particular witness says with a massive dose of salt. I do think the outfit was probably a mismatched combo of black and brown, based on the Mitchell and Mucklow descriptions. Hair is the least consistent item in the witness descriptions.

Needed stair instructions - meh. Probably more familiar with the military model than the
civilian, or just never had to open the door himself before. Didn't need parachute instructions, though = not his first rodeo. I also don't see any evidence that Cooper wasn't a top jumper. "Too experienced" is not a problem for me. Besides, he could also be attempting to hide expertise, after already revealing he didn't need jump instructions, recognizing Portland from the air, and revealing he knew the oxygen location.

According to EU, two other suspects were CLEARED, but SP was not, exactly. They couldn't prove he was aboard, but their DNA is incomplete and not even surely Cooper's. Just because they can't convict him doesn't prove he didn't do it.

Exposure to tie environment - well, presuming (and we can't really presume this) the 3-yr-old tie wasn't purchased at the Portland Sally Ann on Nov 23, and was even Cooper's tie - the one element not explained by SP's background was a common element. It was probably on my dad's clothes - he repaired TVs and always had a half-dozen around with their tubes exposed. MY clothes could have contained that element.

I love Sheridan. But nothing has convinced me to eliminate him - except an eye colour confirmed by one (very much in shock) witness, who changed her story about when he donned the glasses in her interviews. Ditto Gossett, though with him I am concerned about alibi. I'm not very clear on whether his whereabouts for Nov 24 can be verified. (I also do not eliminate the possibility of Cooper's death; the story of the woman with the missing dad is compelling). Most suspects I have far less trouble eliminating. Which is not to say that ANY of the people named thus far did it.


So, let's see,,

Cooper,
wasn't swarthy, latin, olive, Mexican American or Native American, it was a tan.
the tie wasn't his or those tie particles are very common.
eyes were blue not brown.
hair wasn't marcelled or wavy (Alice Hancock also confirmed wavy hair..), he was balding.
a technical Boeing employee unable to operate rear airstairs even after instructions means nothing.
the FBI didn't publicly eliminate SP, evidence he is Cooper.

Now, those things may be individually possible, but in totality with all other evidence extremely unlikely. I wouldn't eliminate SP but in totality the circumstantial evidence is WEAK. There are thousands of people that can made into circumstantial suspects. Tens of thousands can be made into weak suspects.






« Last Edit: June 18, 2018, 01:04:22 PM by FLYJACK »
 

Offline 377

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Re: DB Cooper: The Definitive Investigation
« Reply #54 on: June 18, 2018, 12:53:16 PM »
Flyjack wrote: "Tens of thousands can be made into weak suspects."

Finally, my chance to be a NORJACK suspect, albeit a weak one.

PRO:
Owned a 727 a flight manual prior to Nov. 1971
Traveled to Seattle Nov 71, prior to DBC skyjack.
Experienced jumping military surplus parachute gear.
Fascinated with Boeing aircraft, extensive library.
Starving student, $200K would have been quite useful.
Exposure to tie elements, worked in TV repair, exposed to broken color CRTs, worked in university experimental prototype machine shop.
Owned a black clip on tie and DBC type clasp.
Obsessed with jumping from unusual aircraft since 1968. Made a passenger jet jump in 2006.


CON:
Was 22 years old in Nov 71.
No grudges.
Had no way to know a 727 could be jumped.
Didn't smoke.
Didn't drink hard liquor.
6'2" height.
No night or off DZ jump experience in 71.

So Flyjack, can I be suspect no. 9999?

377

 

Offline EU

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Re: DB Cooper: The Definitive Investigation
« Reply #55 on: June 18, 2018, 01:04:42 PM »
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Sheridan Petersen ranks low on my list of suspects, not eliminated.. KC and Reca don't even make the list. There are probably thousands of suspects known and unknown that can be made to fit with circumstantial evidence. Some are just better than others..


Problems I have with SP..

Cooper - Latin/Mexican swarthy, marcelled "Nixon" like hair.

Cooper - needed instructions for rear stairs and then had trouble lowering them. Shows lack of knowledge/competence.

Cooper had jump experience but wasn't a top flight jumper. SP was TOO experienced.

SP was a high profile suspect, DNA was taken. DO we know it wasn't compared or just unconfirmed.

No clear exposure to tie environment.

and the totality of the circumstantial evidence that exists for SP is generally weak.



Until the FBI puts some dude on that plane, all we will have is circumstantial evidence.. some better than others.
I actually feel the reasons for eliminating Sheridan are far flimsier than the circumstantial evidence against him. Shaky alibi? Check.  Anyone missing him in the US at that time? Nope, because he was already abroad (could also be significant for laundering purposes - I'm pretty sure, say, Nepalese tellers were not all over the DBC hunt).

The swarthy complexion means - nothing, nothing, nothing. After 2 days in Thailand, I was dark as a coffee bean, and I never tanned a day before in my life with so much Irish blood I look like a mashed potato. After 5-6 years in Southeast Asia, SP HAD to be dark. I've lived in Asian. You will tan. You will burn. You will, if as fair as I, be sick as a dog first.

Marcelled hair, my ass. There, I've said it. That description comes from ONE witness who couldn't even correctly identify which FA sat next to DBC through most of the flight. Paint shop or no, I take everything that particular witness says with a massive dose of salt. I do think the outfit was probably a mismatched combo of black and brown, based on the Mitchell and Mucklow descriptions. Hair is the least consistent item in the witness descriptions.

Needed stair instructions - meh. Probably more familiar with the military model than the
civilian, or just never had to open the door himself before. Didn't need parachute instructions, though = not his first rodeo. I also don't see any evidence that Cooper wasn't a top jumper. "Too experienced" is not a problem for me. Besides, he could also be attempting to hide expertise, after already revealing he didn't need jump instructions, recognizing Portland from the air, and revealing he knew the oxygen location.

According to EU, two other suspects were CLEARED, but SP was not, exactly. They couldn't prove he was aboard, but their DNA is incomplete and not even surely Cooper's. Just because they can't convict him doesn't prove he didn't do it.

Exposure to tie environment - well, presuming (and we can't really presume this) the 3-yr-old tie wasn't purchased at the Portland Sally Ann on Nov 23, and was even Cooper's tie - the one element not explained by SP's background was a common element. It was probably on my dad's clothes - he repaired TVs and always had a half-dozen around with their tubes exposed. MY clothes could have contained that element.

I love Sheridan. But nothing has convinced me to eliminate him - except an eye colour confirmed by one (very much in shock) witness, who changed her story about when he donned the glasses in her interviews. Ditto Gossett, though with him I am concerned about alibi. I'm not very clear on whether his whereabouts for Nov 24 can be verified. (I also do not eliminate the possibility of Cooper's death; the story of the woman with the missing dad is compelling). Most suspects I have far less trouble eliminating. Which is not to say that ANY of the people named thus far did it.


So, let's see,,

Cooper,
wasn't swarthy, latin, Mexican American or Native American, it was a tan.
the tie wasn't his or those tie particles are very common.
eyes were blue not brown.
hair wasn't marcelled or wavy (Alice Hancock also confirmed wavy hair..), he was balding.
a technical Boeing employee unable to operate rear airstairs even after instructions means nothing.
the FBI didn't publicly eliminate SP, evidence he is Cooper.

Now, those things may be individually possible, but in totality with all other evidence extremely unlikely. I wouldn't eliminate SP but in totality the circumstantial evidence is WEAK. There are thousands of people that can made into circumstantial suspects. Tens of thousands can be made into weak suspects.

The "totality" of the evidence against Sheridan as described in DB Cooper: The Definitive Investigation coming out July 10th is overwhelming. I stand by my investigation and reporting of the facts.

Moreover, a quick review of some of the more salient facts as noted on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login should make it abundantly clear that Sheridan is  uniquely and exceptionally credible.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

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FLYJACK

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Re: DB Cooper: The Definitive Investigation
« Reply #56 on: June 18, 2018, 01:05:33 PM »
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Flyjack wrote: "Tens of thousands can be made into weak suspects."

Finally, my chance to be a NORJACK suspect, albeit a weak one.

PRO:
Owned a 727 a flight manual prior to Nov. 1971
Traveled to Seattle Nov 71, prior to DBC skyjack.
Experienced jumping military surplus parachute gear.
Fascinated with Boeing aircraft, extensive library.
Starving student, $200K would have been quite useful.
Exposure to tie elements, worked in TV repair, exposed to broken color CRTs, worked in university experimental prototype machine shop.
Owned a black clip on tie and DBC type clasp.
Obsessed with jumping from unusual aircraft since 1968. Made a passenger jet jump in 2006.


CON:
Was 22 years old in Nov 71.
No grudges.
Had no way to know a 727 could be jumped.
Didn't smoke.
Didn't drink hard liquor.
6'2" height.
No night or off DZ jump experience in 71.

So Flyjack, can I be suspect no. 9999?

377

Sure, right about where KC lands..
 
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Offline 377

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Re: DB Cooper: The Definitive Investigation
« Reply #57 on: June 18, 2018, 01:16:49 PM »
Just put me ahead of Reca and I'll be content.  ;)

377
 
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FLYJACK

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Re: DB Cooper: The Definitive Investigation
« Reply #58 on: June 18, 2018, 01:39:27 PM »
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Just put me ahead of Reca and I'll be content.  ;)

377

Reca who?
 

Offline 377

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Re: DB Cooper: The Definitive Investigation
« Reply #59 on: June 18, 2018, 01:48:22 PM »
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Just ahead of Barb Dayton on the Cooper 10,000 list.

377