Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
6 (9.5%)
25% Cooper lived
4 (6.3%)
35% Cooper lived.
2 (3.2%)
50% Cooper lived
14 (22.2%)
75% Cooper lived
14 (22.2%)
100 Cooper lived
23 (36.5%)

Total Members Voted: 58

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 1389113 times)

Offline EU

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5415 on: April 06, 2020, 02:26:39 AM »
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I think that there is a tendency to look for connections among things that usually don't exist.

People rob banks for a reason. The reason being that they want money.

DB Cooper extorted $200K because he wanted $200K. Moreover, it's safe to assume that he wanted to get away with it...that he didn't want to get caught.

Therefore, may I suggest that sometimes a skyjacking and extortion is nothing more than a skyjacking and extortion. After all, I have yet to identify a single bank robber that ever robbed a bank for anything other than the money.


You are contradicting your own point Eric...if you wanted money just rob a bank?? Why do something like this go back to my post and coopers comments it was a person grudge.

To the contrary, it's  not a contradiction at all.

People roll in their wheelhouse. This is why someone like Bernie Madoff steals via a stockmarket scam. Or a Brinks truck robbery is often an inside job. Or an art heist is usually committed by someone familiar with the art world.

DB Cooper likely was very familiar with aviation--the Boeing 727 in particular--and skydiving. Moreover, the evidence on the tie backs this theory up.
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Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5416 on: April 06, 2020, 04:08:47 AM »
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I think that there is a tendency to look for connections among things that usually don't exist.

People rob banks for a reason. The reason being that they want money.

DB Cooper extorted $200K because he wanted $200K. Moreover, it's safe to assume that he wanted to get away with it...that he didn't want to get caught.

Therefore, may I suggest that sometimes a skyjacking and extortion is nothing more than a skyjacking and extortion. After all, I have yet to identify a single bank robber that ever robbed a bank for anything other than the money.


You are contradicting your own point Eric...if you wanted money just rob a bank?? Why do something like this go back to my post and coopers comments it was a person grudge.

To the contrary, it's  not a contradiction at all.

People roll in their wheelhouse. This is why someone like Bernie Madoff steals via a stockmarket scam. Or a Brinks truck robbery is often an inside job. Or an art heist is usually committed by someone familiar with the art world.

DB Cooper likely was very familiar with aviation--the Boeing 727 in particular--and skydiving. Moreover, the evidence on the tie backs this theory up.

People roll in their wheelhouse. ?

What is that supposed to mean?  People choose socks that fit their feet?

What does that powerful metaphor offer the DB Cooper case? Wheelhouses?  C:-) 
« Last Edit: April 06, 2020, 04:17:53 AM by georger »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5417 on: April 06, 2020, 06:39:17 AM »
What Cooper did is very similar to a bank robbery. a note is given to the teller and usually they are told they have a gun which in some cases is a bluff. the problem here is they are hitting one teller and only get what she has in the draw. then you have the bold guys who come in with guns but still don't get 200 grand. most banks don't have that much money on hand. some only get under a thousand dollars. you need to get in and out as quick as you can. this is why descriptions are often off. a typical bank robber tries not to involve everyone in the bank.
 

Offline EU

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5418 on: April 06, 2020, 09:56:52 AM »
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People roll in their wheelhouse. ?

What is that supposed to mean?  People choose socks that fit their feet?

What does that powerful metaphor offer the DB Cooper case? Wheelhouses?  C:-)

According to waywordradio.org:

Q) What does it mean if something is in your wheelhouse?

A) If something is in your wheelhouse, it's well within your area of expertise. According to the Dickson Baseball Dictionary, the term wheelhouse refers to swinging a bat when the ball is right in your crush zone. (Mar 5, 2011)
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

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Offline EU

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5419 on: April 06, 2020, 11:17:08 AM »
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Only as last resort...I don't think he believed it would happen..it's possible it could of......

Someone refresh me here. 

Cooper is sitting to the right of Tina.  She lights his cigarettes for him.

Is he smoking with his left hand, and his right hand is always in the briefcase?  I thought I read somewhere that Flo was the one that said he had his hand in the briefcase the whole time.  The whole time in this case would not have been long if it was Flo talking.  Maybe it was Tina.  But he had it in there from takeoff in Portland all the way until when? When he counts the money?  He drinks with one hand too?  It's a long time to have your hand in the briefcase.

Let's get creative here.  Why else would he keep his hand in the briefcase?  Tina is pretty harmless, he seems to like her, and she is ok with him.  It's not like she is going to overpower him.

Possibilities:

He really is afraid that he will need to set off the bomb and wants to keep his hands close
He has a gun in there and wants it close
He has a watch on, or some identifying jewelry
He has a scar or a tattoo or a mark on his hand
His hands give him away as blue collar and not the hands of a businessman

EU, Shutter, Martin, Bruce, couple of other guys, you think out of the box, what are some ideas?

By the way, in the 1970 movie Airport, a deranged man makes a briefcase bomb with dynamite and wires and carries it on a plane.  He uses a deadman switch, a little sliver of wood attached to a string.  This movie is said to have been one of the first "disaster" type movies of the new genre.

The left-handed versus right-handed question is one I have thought about a lot.

I'm surprised that there are very few references in the FBI files regarding which hand DBC used. If it could be determined that DBC was left-handed that would narrow the field down close to 95% given the way children were forced to use their right hands back in the old days (20's and 30's).

Of note, Bill Mitchell does mention that DBC had his left-hand in the case--I assume when the case is sitting on DBC's lap.

Beyond that, the case sitting on seat 18F--on Cooper's right--necessitates DBC using his right hand at this point which is meaningless. This can be extended to Cooper smoking with his left hand (not mentioned in the FBI files), this too would also be meaningless.

All told, I suspect DBC was left-handed given Bill Mitchell's testimony. After all, if the case is sitting on his lap this is a non-biased action which gives DBC the opportunity to utilize the hand he favors.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

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Offline Parrotheadvol

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5420 on: April 06, 2020, 01:52:38 PM »
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Only as last resort...I don't think he believed it would happen..it's possible it could of......

Someone refresh me here. 

Cooper is sitting to the right of Tina.  She lights his cigarettes for him.

Is he smoking with his left hand, and his right hand is always in the briefcase?  I thought I read somewhere that Flo was the one that said he had his hand in the briefcase the whole time.  The whole time in this case would not have been long if it was Flo talking.  Maybe it was Tina.  But he had it in there from takeoff in Portland all the way until when? When he counts the money?  He drinks with one hand too?  It's a long time to have your hand in the briefcase.

Let's get creative here.  Why else would he keep his hand in the briefcase?  Tina is pretty harmless, he seems to like her, and she is ok with him.  It's not like she is going to overpower him.

Possibilities:

He really is afraid that he will need to set off the bomb and wants to keep his hands close
He has a gun in there and wants it close
He has a watch on, or some identifying jewelry
He has a scar or a tattoo or a mark on his hand
His hands give him away as blue collar and not the hands of a businessman

EU, Shutter, Martin, Bruce, couple of other guys, you think out of the box, what are some ideas?

By the way, in the 1970 movie Airport, a deranged man makes a briefcase bomb with dynamite and wires and carries it on a plane.  He uses a deadman switch, a little sliver of wood attached to a string.  This movie is said to have been one of the first "disaster" type movies of the new genre.

The left-handed versus right-handed question is one I have thought about a lot.

I'm surprised that there are very few references in the FBI files regarding which hand DBC used. If it could be determined that DBC was left-handed that would narrow the field down close to 95% given the way children were forced to use their right hands back in the old days (20's and 30's).

Of note, Bill Mitchell does mention that DBC had his left-hand in the case--I assume when the case is sitting on DBC's lap.

Beyond that, the case sitting on seat 18F--on Cooper's right--necessitates DBC using his right hand at this point which is meaningless. This can be extended to Cooper smoking with his left hand (not mentioned in the FBI files), this too would also be meaningless.

All told, I suspect DBC was left-handed given Bill Mitchell's testimony. After all, if the case is sitting on his lap this is a non-biased action which gives DBC the opportunity to utilize the hand he favors.

Perhaps. But if the bomb was fake, then does it really matter which hand he had in there? In that scenario, his right hand is free to use if necessary, perhaps suggesting he is a righty.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2020, 01:53:05 PM by Parrotheadvol »
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5421 on: April 06, 2020, 02:33:58 PM »
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Only as last resort...I don't think he believed it would happen..it's possible it could of......

Someone refresh me here. 

Cooper is sitting to the right of Tina.  She lights his cigarettes for him.

Is he smoking with his left hand, and his right hand is always in the briefcase?  I thought I read somewhere that Flo was the one that said he had his hand in the briefcase the whole time.  The whole time in this case would not have been long if it was Flo talking.  Maybe it was Tina.  But he had it in there from takeoff in Portland all the way until when? When he counts the money?  He drinks with one hand too?  It's a long time to have your hand in the briefcase.

Let's get creative here.  Why else would he keep his hand in the briefcase?  Tina is pretty harmless, he seems to like her, and she is ok with him.  It's not like she is going to overpower him.

Possibilities:

He really is afraid that he will need to set off the bomb and wants to keep his hands close
He has a gun in there and wants it close
He has a watch on, or some identifying jewelry
He has a scar or a tattoo or a mark on his hand
His hands give him away as blue collar and not the hands of a businessman

EU, Shutter, Martin, Bruce, couple of other guys, you think out of the box, what are some ideas?

By the way, in the 1970 movie Airport, a deranged man makes a briefcase bomb with dynamite and wires and carries it on a plane.  He uses a deadman switch, a little sliver of wood attached to a string.  This movie is said to have been one of the first "disaster" type movies of the new genre.

The left-handed versus right-handed question is one I have thought about a lot.

I'm surprised that there are very few references in the FBI files regarding which hand DBC used. If it could be determined that DBC was left-handed that would narrow the field down close to 95% given the way children were forced to use their right hands back in the old days (20's and 30's).

Of note, Bill Mitchell does mention that DBC had his left-hand in the case--I assume when the case is sitting on DBC's lap.

Beyond that, the case sitting on seat 18F--on Cooper's right--necessitates DBC using his right hand at this point which is meaningless. This can be extended to Cooper smoking with his left hand (not mentioned in the FBI files), this too would also be meaningless.

All told, I suspect DBC was left-handed given Bill Mitchell's testimony. After all, if the case is sitting on his lap this is a non-biased action which gives DBC the opportunity to utilize the hand he favors.

Perhaps. But if the bomb was fake, then does it really matter which hand he had in there? In that scenario, his right hand is free to use if necessary, perhaps suggesting he is a righty.

Since nobody has built versions of his bomb and tried them, nobody knows . . .  :-\

Why didnt anyone ask the stews what hand they thought he favored?  :-\
« Last Edit: April 06, 2020, 02:37:29 PM by georger »
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5422 on: April 06, 2020, 04:11:01 PM »
Anyone know where this page and its accompanying pages are from - - - DB Cooper 2859 ?

FLYJAVCK published it at DZ but as usual gave no context or the adjoining pages .... where can the whole doc be found with the adjoining pages 1, 3, etc?

FJ is using this page to claim Cooper was 'right handed' by how he carried the bomb to the Lav in his left hand, with right hand inside the bomb.   

The FBI files are NOT in consecutive page order!  Where TF does page 2859 come from ! ?  What part? What download?  vote the smileycode and safe  :offtopicman:
« Last Edit: April 06, 2020, 04:37:20 PM by georger »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5423 on: April 06, 2020, 05:27:53 PM »
Quote
FJ is using this page to claim Cooper was 'right handed' by how he carried the bomb to the Lav in his left hand, with right hand inside the bomb.

I will have to look but a notation is at the bottom of Mitchell's statement saying his left hand was in and out of the case...Alice makes a statement that his right hand was in the briefcase the whole time...I seem to recall a statement that he had both hand on the briefcase coming out of the bathroom...the document doesn't match witness testimony...

Nancy House stated Cooper came out of the bathroom with the briefcase in both arms..
« Last Edit: April 06, 2020, 07:14:34 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5424 on: April 06, 2020, 06:00:14 PM »
Still hard to determine what hand Cooper favored. he could of come out of the bathroom with it in his left hand so the briefcase is not so trapped coming out and turning right going down the isle. any type of quick detonation would be best on the outside vs the inside..I haven't found any witness statements of his hands in the case during the trip to the bathroom other than an agent stating it..

Read the full document..she seen him going to the bathroom only...

Quote
FJ is using this page to claim Cooper was 'right handed' by how he carried the bomb to the Lav in his left hand, with right hand inside the bomb.

I'm left handed and would do that configuration...hold the briefcase with my left and my right hand inside...70 -90% are right handed sooooo?
« Last Edit: April 06, 2020, 06:18:33 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline EU

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5425 on: April 06, 2020, 06:50:50 PM »
Tom Kaye and I discussed using DBC's tie in some manner to determine whether he was right or left handed.

Initially, I asked Tom if he noticed more debris on one side of the tie knot or the other...the pictures have a shadow so it's impossible to tell. Tom said he did not recall one side of the tie knot being any more soiled than the other.

Tom theorized that perhaps more gold particles would be present on one side of the tie or the other where the tie clip was affixed--thereby giving us an idea of which direction DBC applied the tie clip. However, we were unable to accurately measure any sort of "gold debris" disparity.

I have never seen anything that discusses DBC striking a match--a dead giveaway--or smoking using one hand or the other. In my opinion this is somewhat shoddy work on the part of the FBI. The files should at least say that the question was asked and Tina and/or Flo couldn't recall.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

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Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5426 on: April 06, 2020, 07:02:37 PM »
If Cooper got on before Mitchell he sat on the right if he came up the stairs...I would of sat on the left side.
 

Offline EU

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5427 on: April 06, 2020, 07:27:11 PM »
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If Cooper got on before Mitchell he sat on the right if he came up the stairs...I would of sat on the left side.

I considered this too and looked at my decision making process as a right-hander and found that I tend to favor taking a seat to my right...or to the left if there's a good looking woman involved.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

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Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5428 on: April 06, 2020, 07:28:39 PM »
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If Cooper got on before Mitchell he sat on the right if he came up the stairs...I would of sat on the left side.

Cooper would want to be in the rearmost row with no one behind him.  Using your logic, if Cooper was the second to last to board he might/might not be right handed and Mitchell might be left handed.  If Cooper was the last to board, Mitchell might/might not be left handed and Cooper right handed.  I doubt if any realistic conclusions can be drawn based on which side of the cabin Cooper was on.
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5429 on: April 06, 2020, 07:31:55 PM »
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If Cooper got on before Mitchell he sat on the right if he came up the stairs...I would of sat on the left side.

I considered this too and looked at my decision making process as a right-hander and found that I tend to favor taking a seat to my right...or to the left if there's a good looking woman involved.

At last, someone making sense in a post here.
 
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