Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
5 (11.4%)
25% Cooper lived
3 (6.8%)
35% Cooper lived.
1 (2.3%)
50% Cooper lived
10 (22.7%)
75% Cooper lived
9 (20.5%)
100 Cooper lived
16 (36.4%)

Total Members Voted: 39

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 422759 times)

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5190 on: December 01, 2019, 08:54:12 PM »

Here is a good photo of the placard.


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Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5191 on: December 02, 2019, 12:00:06 AM »
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It takes up to 100 minutes to become dark after sunset. Photo below is 4pm today..complete with overcast...with light rain.

There was a Moon the evening of 11-24-71. I posted about this eons ago ........ sorry it got lost and nobody cared.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5192 on: December 02, 2019, 12:12:43 AM »
Partial moon calendar November 1971
 
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Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5193 on: December 02, 2019, 12:29:43 AM »
This newspaper report about lab work is very controversial. So far there are no 302's explaining it - and I doubt T Kaye even knows this lab report exists? I am told Himmelsbach believed this lab person (a geologist?) had proved the Ingram money came through the Washougal. Others did not agree. Was this conflict ever resolved?   

Good luck with it!

* reformatted the article.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2019, 03:20:26 AM by georger »
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5194 on: December 02, 2019, 04:06:41 AM »
pdf #43 consists of 483 pages. 367 pages are extraneous, refer to suspects or FBI matters.

20 pages may be important and introduce new material never seen before - example: a brand new geologist's report on sand analysis of the Ingram bills claiming the money originated or came through the Washougal River system before arriving at Tina Bar. A segment of this article also explains attempts that were made to extract finger prints from the bills using a new IBM laser system as distinct from silver nitrate processing which the FBI also tried. This is a controversial article.   

82 pages of articles, photos, etc related to money find matters.

14 pages of FBI 302s either related to the Ingram find chronology or the Palmer Report. These 14 pages do not comprise the entirety of the Ingram find chronology or the Palmer reports, but are merely  segments from those reports, contained in the document Tom Kaye refers to as "The Transcript".   
« Last Edit: December 02, 2019, 04:53:57 AM by georger »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5195 on: December 02, 2019, 07:59:03 AM »
Based on viewing sunset here and through live video of Seattle can conclude the times they post for both area's were correct except the last light. Light could still be seen past the time posted.

The weather was similar as well including cloud cover and light rain...pretty simple to figure out...

Growing up in Ohio and here I always noticed you need dark thunder storm type of clouds to affect sunset. Really nasty weather and not light rain or an overcast to bring sunset an hour early.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2019, 08:29:38 AM by Shutter »
 
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5196 on: December 02, 2019, 02:31:53 PM »
I just got off the phone with Bruce Kitt from Northwest history center. He wasn't familiar with the emergency panel what so ever. He is looking into it further. He only recalls the one door. I'm sending him a safety card showing the option.

I also read the 302 about another piece of a stairwell found. He believes it might of been the material above the stairs and on the side. The skirting that was damaged. He did confirm it was made of fiberglass and would bend like metal. He didn't think it was from 305 due to deterioration over several years....
« Last Edit: December 02, 2019, 02:34:02 PM by Shutter »
 
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Offline EU

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5197 on: December 02, 2019, 02:39:30 PM »
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I just got off the phone with Bruce Kitt from Northwest history center. He wasn't familiar with the emergency panel what so ever. He is looking into it further. He only recalls the one door. I'm sending him a safety card showing the option.

I also read the 302 about another piece of a stairwell found. He believes it might of been the material above the stairs and on the side. The skirting that was damaged. He did confirm it was made of fiberglass and would bend like metal. He didn't think it was from 305 due to deterioration over several years....

Where can the 302 be found in the files?
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

RFK
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5198 on: December 02, 2019, 02:58:24 PM »
I think its file 35...DB Cooper-13330 not sure on page but more than halfway through the file..
« Last Edit: December 02, 2019, 03:04:27 PM by Shutter »
 
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Offline fcastle866

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5199 on: December 13, 2019, 10:55:11 AM »
A lot of my notes are in boxes for a bit, so I figured it's just as fast to get an answer here.

1.  The glass/glasses that Cooper used for his drinks were taken away.  When were those taken and by whom? I thought I remember those disapearing at the end of the flight (wondering why they would not have been taken right away).

2.  Who did he tell that "It looks like Tacoma down there"  Wiki says it was Flo, but she would have been in the cockpit by then.  I'm guessing it was Tina, and Tina told Flo, and Flo told the investigators, because I thought I read one of her statements that said that (In Marty's book, packed away with the rest until I can get to it).

Thanks.
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5200 on: December 13, 2019, 03:11:52 PM »
Here we go again - more Flyjack claims - all relying on Tosaw's book!

Has it ever occurred to Flyjack that Tosaw 'made stuff up'?   Crew interviews conflict with Tosaw accounts! FBI agents strongly objected to Tosaw's claims and accounts and said "Tosaw is making things up." Author Musika Farnsworth ran squarely into this issue when she tried to reconcile Tosaw claims with FBI agents accounts. Farnsworth finally interviewed Himmelsbach at length and H told Muskia that inspite of what she thought about the FBI or Himmelsbach personally, that Tosaw literally made things up for his book - and H told Farnsworth 'There is literally nothing in the FBI's interviews of people that supports most of the claims Tosaw is attributing to witnesses, and that comes up specifically in the case of Tosaw's socalled interview of Tina Mucklow whens he was in the convent.'

H went on to explain that Tosaw's socalled interview of Mucklow was short, cryptic, and interrupted by The Mother Superior who had finally granted Tosaw permission for a brief interview with Mucklow! Tosaw never had a free flowing lengthy personal interview with Mucklow, over the convent telephone! Tina's Mother Superior was on the line the whole time, according to Himmelsbach, and she finally cut Tosaw's socalled interview with Mucklow short! From this, Tosaw then goes and inserts all kinds of claims and attributions to Mucklow, in his book!

H also said that after Tosaw's book came out an agent was allowed to interview Tina and his report was that Tina was unsettled and mystified about some of Tosaw's claims attributed to her. (There should be a 302 about that!)

So, I caution Flyjack to take Tosaw's claims in his book with a grain of salt. Many of his claims are totally undocumented and probably made up!

Flyjack says today:

"Also from Tosaw’s book.. 
Cooper had 2 drinks.
Money in packets of $2000 strapped in PAPER BANDS and some had additional rubber bands, corroborates Tina, H and Bank letter to FBI..
Cooper offered 2 packets of money to stews, other than Tina.
Cooper demanded flaps down but flight ops was calculating range and they went back and asked Cooper, he then said 15 degrees. 
Soderlind suggested SF or LA, and a second stop in Yuma.. and “Cooper was advised that it wasn’t necessary for the plane to stop anywhere in the US, but in any event he did not want to stop at either SF or LA because those cities were too big.” Reno was suggested by Soderlind and Cooper agreed."

Be advised that Tosaw "made a lot of stuff up" according to the FBI. When Flyjack mixes Tosaw claims with FBI 302s and other sources, the conclusions Fkyjack is claiming may be factually false. It's as simple as that.

Carr talked to the bank employ that prepared the bundles of money for delivery to SeaTac and no paper straps were involved. That is a simple fact if you believe the bank employee who did the actual assembling of the money over Tosaw's undocumented account, for his book!

Richard Tosaw told a cub reporter at the Univ of Iowa Daily Iowan in February of 1980 shortly after Cooper money had been found: " I have retired. I am interested in DB Cooper case. Im going to write a book about the Cooper case now in addition to my work on Nile Kinnick." The excavation of Tina Bar wasn't even finished and Tosaw is already advising the press: 'I have retired. I am interested in DB Cooper case and Im going to write a book about the Cooper case.' ! Tosaw was going to deal himself in and he started with a headline in Iowa City! The coffin on the Tina Bar excavation wasnt even closed and now Tosaw is going to add his voice too and grab a headline.
 :rofl:
« Last Edit: December 13, 2019, 03:29:23 PM by georger »
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5201 on: December 13, 2019, 04:09:20 PM »
I recommend to Cooper people that they take the Tosaw book and drop it in the toilet. Im serious.  :bravo:
 

Offline nickyb233

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5202 on: December 13, 2019, 04:58:57 PM »
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I recommend to Cooper people that they take the Tosaw book and drop it in the toilet. Im serious.  :bravo:

Well you say tosaw made stuff up and 377 said in his upcoming interview on The Cooper Vortex with Darren in regards to his report about Tina telling him cooper looked at the packing card that he doesn’t think Tosaw is the type to make stuff up. Add this to the list of cooper conflicts,it’s maddening! 😑
« Last Edit: December 13, 2019, 05:05:43 PM by nickyb233 »
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5203 on: December 13, 2019, 06:04:35 PM »
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I recommend to Cooper people that they take the Tosaw book and drop it in the toilet. Im serious.  :bravo:

Well you say tosaw made stuff up and 377 said in his upcoming interview on The Cooper Vortex with Darren in regards to his report about Tina telling him cooper looked at the packing card that he doesn’t think Tosaw is the type to make stuff up. Add this to the list of cooper conflicts,it’s maddening! 😑

yes and it does drive some Coopertinos crazy.

Tosaw's actual interview with Tina is a case in point. Over the telephone, short, restrained by the Mother Superior ... Tina was barely free to talk and yet Tosaw claimed a full free-flowing interview with Tina which is...  a lie. 
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5204 on: December 13, 2019, 06:32:57 PM »
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I recommend to Cooper people that they take the Tosaw book and drop it in the toilet. Im serious.  :bravo:

Well you say tosaw made stuff up and 377 said in his upcoming interview on The Cooper Vortex with Darren in regards to his report about Tina telling him cooper looked at the packing card that he doesn’t think Tosaw is the type to make stuff up. Add this to the list of cooper conflicts,it’s maddening! 😑

yes and it does drive some Coopertinos crazy.

Tosaw's actual interview with Tina is a case in point. Over the telephone, short, restrained by the Mother Superior ... Tina was barely free to talk and yet Tosaw claimed a full free-flowing interview with Tina which is...  a lie.

I prefer the term: "Literary license." It is plausible to assume that Richard Tosaw back-filled Tina's non-interview-over-the-phone with information that he obtained from his brother, Mike Tosaw, whom I believe was a field agent at the Seattle office at that time.

Dismissing Tosaw, or fully embracing Himmelsbach's commentary, is ill-advised in my view. Rather, I say take both with a grain of salt, and keep digging for more corroboration.
 
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