Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
5 (12.2%)
25% Cooper lived
2 (4.9%)
35% Cooper lived.
1 (2.4%)
50% Cooper lived
9 (22%)
75% Cooper lived
8 (19.5%)
100 Cooper lived
16 (39%)

Total Members Voted: 36

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 329697 times)

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4845 on: July 21, 2019, 11:47:26 PM »
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Here is the photo I was talking about. looking now, it appears to be a state patrol officer with the dog...

11:13
Reno TLC:   Northwest 305. Reno Tower. Do not touch anything aboard the
      Aircraft. Exit the aircraft from the front. Do not touch anything aboard
      The aircraft and exit from the front. 
305:      Reno this is Northwest 305. Ok sir.  Be advised that ah we apparently
ah,  our passenger took leave of us somewhere ah, between here and
Seattle we have uh, made a rather cursory examination of the aircraft
for the brief case and we are unable to do this. We would like to secure
the aircraft we’ll leave the beacon on. We’re going to, well fact of the
matter is we’re going to shut everything down. We’re going to take
leave of the aircraft, we would request that we have ground transpor-
tation if you would. Uh, we don’t need the fuelers. We certainly thank
them for standing by and everyone else we really appreciate the support
and help we got and if we could get some transportation into the ..
ah well ah .. I think United has an operations department here do they
not.


11:14 pm pst
Reno TLC:   305 Affirmative. Do not touch anything on the aircraft. Depart the aircraft
Depart the aircraft from the front entrance. Do not touch anything on it.
Just depart it from the front. We will have transportation available.

305:   Ok uh, be advised we got no front uh steps and uhh, we just as soon come
 out here, uh, We’ll go down the back steps and uh uh, we’ll be taking
leave of the aircraft and shutting it down at this time and we’ll stand uh, 
at the forward part of the aircraft awaiting uh transportation.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2019, 12:32:32 AM by georger »
 
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Offline haggarknew

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4846 on: July 23, 2019, 01:22:55 AM »
What time did 305 land in Reno?
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4847 on: July 23, 2019, 01:35:30 AM »
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What time did 305 land in Reno?

The Reno Airport Tower's radio transcripts indicate that the airliner landed (touch downed on the runway) at 11:02 PM PST and that the crew exited the aircraft at 11:22 PM PST.
 
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Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4848 on: July 23, 2019, 02:28:40 PM »
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What time did 305 land in Reno?

The Reno Airport Tower's radio transcripts indicate that the airliner landed (touch downed on the runway) at 11:02 PM PST and that the crew exited the aircraft at 11:22 PM PST.

Last transmission from 305:
11:22 pm
305:               Good night sir.
Reno:            Good night.

And they said Cooper was long gone ... it was the bomb they were apparently concerned about and searching for. If there was a real concern about Cooper or his bomb why would they still be on the plane 20 minutes later !? There didn;t seem to be any real urgency on anyone's part ?

My guess is we are missing two parts of the story (the facts): 8:10-8:20 and 11:02-22. 

At 11:14 pm pst there is an exchange and 305 says: 

Reno TLC:    DO YOU, CAN YOU, REMEMBER THE LAST TIME YOU VISUALLY OBSERVED THE HIJACKER?

305:            IM SORRY I UH UH… WE HAVE AH, BEEN GIVEN ORDERS IF YOU’LL,  IF YOU’LL PARDON US FOR AH NOT CUTTING YA SHORT,  BUT WE’VE BEE GIVEN ORDERS NOT TO,  NOT TO UH, ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS AT THIS TIME.

Who gave them these orders? The Company, when ? Clear back in the 8:10-8:20 period?

At 11:08 305 has already said:

11:08      
305:      Reno? Ok uh, I’ll tell you what – stand by just a moment.
      We’re uh, we’re gonna look back here and see what’s going on.
Reno:      Ok.

So they went back at 11:08 and looked to see if Cooper or the bomb was there.

But clear back at  10:48      
305:      Approach? Uh 305. We cant seem to raise him back there if he is there
      We kind of hate to, uhh, we’de just as soon land with the thing hanging
      Down.

305:      I want to stay away from any hazard if the bomb goes off we don’t want it
                to hinder anyone and we’ll want the fuel trucks to pull up so anyway, if
                you’ve got a wider apron.

So, its the bomb they are concerned about - not Cooper. They already know Cooper is long gone.

Clear back at 8:20 pm    
305:           Called. (called to Cooper? No answer & think he has jumped?)
MSP:      Go to 131.8 (phone patch to company on that freq.)
SEADD:   He (Nyrop?) is already on that frequency.
MSP:      Roger. We are on the phone and will be talking to him shortly.
SEADD:   Roger.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2019, 03:20:53 PM by georger »
 
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Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4849 on: July 23, 2019, 03:12:07 PM »
I concur, G. I believe we are missing details on these time periods.
 
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Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4850 on: July 23, 2019, 03:23:23 PM »
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I concur, G. I believe we are missing details on these time periods.

I revised mine above with even more details from Transcript.

The order to not talk probably happened in the 8:20 period. Then at Reno in the 11:20 period 305 says: we have been order NOT TO TALK. So everything said to the Company has been redacted and 305 has been ordered not to say anything publicly. 

The only concern at Reno is the bomb.

One reason the FBI and the Company might not want the crew to talk is: facts are material to any criminal case. If everything is broadcast for the public to hear that could compromise any case against Cooper. Only Cooper and the crew (and whoever 305 talks to!) knows the true facts. There was even an FAA directive about this -   these 'proscriptions' can be for an employees lifetime!  Rataczak may still be under that order because the Cooper case is still an active case. Mucklow likewise.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2019, 03:54:08 PM by georger »
 
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Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4851 on: July 23, 2019, 04:51:59 PM »
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I concur, G. I believe we are missing details on these time periods.

I revised mine above with even more details from Transcript.

The order to not talk probably happened in the 8:20 period. Then at Reno in the 11:20 period 305 says: we have been order NOT TO TALK. So everything said to the Company has been redacted and 305 has been ordered not to say anything publicly. 

The only concern at Reno is the bomb.

One reason the FBI and the Company might not want the crew to talk is: facts are material to any criminal case. If everything is broadcast for the public to hear that could compromise any case against Cooper. Only Cooper and the crew (and whoever 305 talks to!) knows the true facts. There was even an FAA directive about this -   these 'proscriptions' can be for an employees lifetime!  Rataczak may still be under that order because the Cooper case is still an active case. Mucklow likewise.

Earlier in the Oakland Center's radio transcript, the crew was given an ARINC radio frequency for northern California and told to contact NWA Minneapolis through that system.  The communications through the ARINC system were both by teletype and the radio/phone patch which was set up as the airliner was leaving Seattle.  The voice communications were instantaneous but the teletype messages arrived a number of minutes after the corresponding voice message.

A few years ago, a number of the ARINC teletype printouts were made available to Fred Poynter at the WSHM by former Seattle/NWA personnel.  Poynter and his staff did an analysis of those printouts and concluded that a number of messages had been deleted or redacted.  This is the same thing as was done with the radio transcripts from the Seattle ATC Center.

In summary, both the ATC radio transcripts and the ARINC messages for the hijacking are incomplete. 
 
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Offline haggarknew

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4852 on: July 24, 2019, 01:33:15 AM »
As per last few...        Totally agree, main concern was brief case. Good point about being an "active case".   After landing didn't they taxi the aircraft as far away from everything as possible before sending in bomb sniffing (possibly Vietnam bound) dogs? Makes me question the possibility that he might have actually left the brief case on the plane.(purely speculation).
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4853 on: July 27, 2019, 02:44:24 PM »
Cooper speaks of a "pleasant place"

One place that seems to be overlooked is Mazatlan, Mexico.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2019, 02:46:38 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline Lynn

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4854 on: July 28, 2019, 02:44:37 AM »
I don't have any of the books written by FBI agents - the Himmelsbach or the one about McCoy. Is there much mention of searches done for taxi drivers, hotel/motel staff, Sky Chef staff, etc. who might have had contact with Cooper? I'm sure this was done but I have seen little to no detail of what their investigation at the Portland end entailed.
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4855 on: July 28, 2019, 03:23:01 AM »
Very little detail, Lynn, on the subject of hotels, taxi and bus drivers, etc. is given in Himm's NORJAK, or Calame and Rhodes' DB Cooper- The Real McCoy.

That said, they are excellent books. I encourage you to read them, especially Calame and Rhodes. It unfathomable that a book like that would be written these days by an FBI agent. Their analysis and facts given about the Reno retrieval is scathing.
 
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4856 on: July 28, 2019, 02:25:25 PM »
It's hard to use McCoy vs Cooper. McCoy was caught rather quickly. I don't recall how quick or how soon his cover was blown. his mouth did that.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4857 on: July 28, 2019, 02:29:51 PM »
They were onto McCoy quicker than I thought. this is from the FBI's site.

A search of the countryside in the vicinity of the Provo, Utah Airport was conducted since evidence indicated that the hijacker had bailed out in the area. At approximately 2:00 a.m. the next day, FBI agents, Provo City Police, and the Utah County Sheriff’s posse lined up some 20 to 30 yards apart and combed the surrounding fields.

The night dragged on with no new leads being developed. Within a few hours, though, area residents woke up to news of the hijacking. The Salt Lake City Office of the FBI received a telephone call before noon from a concerned citizen who said an acquaintance had outlined a “foolproof” plan for hijacking an airplane. The acquaintance, Richard Floyd McCoy, Jr., was a Vietnam veteran, a helicopter pilot, and an avid and capable skydiver. McCoy, 29, was reportedly a member of the Utah Air National Guard and a Police Science Major at Brigham Young University. In addition, McCoy was generally known to be having serious financial problems.
 
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Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4858 on: August 02, 2019, 02:00:05 PM »
Cooper used his tie to wipe prints off in the airplane:

Flyjack writes:  "I wrote "some of the particles may have been picked up in the plane if Cooper used the tie to wipe prints from surfaces."

You can read it at DZ.  Now FLYJACK is accusing me of lying, again! So, here is his whole post verbatim.

" The tie:  There are semi horizontal lines (as worn) of "particles" on the tie...

These aren't random but suggest a sideways wiping... it looks consistent with Cooper using the tie to wipe prints from the plane. Most of the particles were used in the 727 (inc CP TI), some of the particles may have been picked up in the plane if Cooper used the tie to wipe prints from surfaces.

I can't see how you would get those "line" patterns so high above the tie "clip/pin/tack" on the tie during normal wearing/use. Those lines look like a series of rub/wipes.. at a similar semi-horizontal angle..  and none vertical.. "

Is the PRIMA DONA robotic FLYJACK now satisfied?   :rofl:   A fact a minute - a new fact every day. FLYJACK knows more about the Cooper hijacking than DB Cooper did himself!

*Flyjack Flyjack, he's our man.
If Flyjack can't do it, then FLYJACK can!

But, FLYACK didnt say what he said! It will change in the next five minutes. Or tomorrow. Or the day after tomorrow. So..... stay tuned. Follow the dancing FLYJACK ball.  He may say next: it never happened at all.  ;)

Oh the drama of it all!  :conspiracy:
« Last Edit: August 02, 2019, 03:52:03 PM by georger »
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4859 on: August 03, 2019, 01:16:18 AM »
FJ raised raised tie streaking issues - claiming someone used the tie to wipe or scrub finger prints off the plane.

So, I ask FJ: where are these streaks you see on the tie? Lines of particles suggesting streaks from rubbing? 

I have some very hi-res images of the tie - where are these lines of particles suggesting streaking from rubbing? Smudging of lines of particles from pressure? Blurring and displacement of particles due to pressure? 
« Last Edit: August 03, 2019, 01:17:47 AM by georger »