Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
4 (10.3%)
25% Cooper lived
2 (5.1%)
35% Cooper lived.
1 (2.6%)
50% Cooper lived
9 (23.1%)
75% Cooper lived
8 (20.5%)
100 Cooper lived
15 (38.5%)

Total Members Voted: 34

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 246440 times)

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4650 on: February 14, 2019, 12:15:29 AM »

The stake used is metal...you can see it right at the start of the video. this also shows Palmer pointing on a overhead photo..

« Last Edit: February 14, 2019, 12:17:04 AM by Shutter »
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4651 on: February 14, 2019, 02:08:17 AM »
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The stake used is metal...you can see it right at the start of the video. this also shows Palmer pointing on a overhead photo..



ok so Dorwin's piece of a wooden tree branch stake shoved into the sand has now morphed into a formal metal stake. Good to know. And Palmer is pointing to the exact location of the money find in that frame. I guess that eliminate's Crystal's story. You can see all of this in these frames ... 
« Last Edit: February 14, 2019, 02:08:51 AM by georger »
 

Offline Robertrand

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4652 on: February 14, 2019, 02:13:57 AM »
Here's another KATU video. In it a guy says they found pieces up to 2-3 feet down. He doesn't say where though.

Edit: He actually says the shards were found in the same vicinity of the original large quantity of money.



« Last Edit: February 14, 2019, 02:20:48 AM by Robertrand »
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4653 on: February 14, 2019, 05:10:42 AM »
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Here's another KATU video. In it a guy says they found pieces up to 2-3 feet down. He doesn't say where though.

Edit: He actually says the shards were found in the same vicinity of the original large quantity of money.



Good post! It seems to suggest mixing or multiple burials in different places, but why would anyone bury just a few bills at any location?  Palmer found a smooth undisturbed transition of layered strata (which includes a cross bedded layer which takes time to accumulate) ... from the Ingram site right down to the beach. He found the same profile in his comparison trench dug south of the Ingram find.

But Im going to suggest something that a lot of people have asked which nobody seems to want to discuss publicly. Are the Fazios telling the whole truth?  Did the Fazios or their neighbor just a few feet to the north of the Ingram find allow sand to be dumped on their beach which has gone unrecorded in this affair, and nobody bothered to check or mention it - let sleeping dogs lay? There are violations involved and possible fines in unrecorded dumping ...

Something is unexplained here. 

Why would Cooper pick Tina Bar of all places to bury anything he valued!? It is a known destructive environment and a highly public place. He might as well have buried it in a school yard underneath the swings!
 
« Last Edit: February 14, 2019, 05:19:24 AM by georger »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4654 on: February 14, 2019, 07:08:38 AM »
Quote
ok so Dorwin's piece of a wooden tree branch stake shoved into the sand has now morphed into a formal metal stake. Good to know. And Palmer is pointing to the exact location of the money find in that frame. I guess that eliminate's Crystal's story. You can see all of this in these frames ..


You can see a string attached to the stake. at the very end of the original KATU video that I found the reporter is right next to the stake and puts his hands on it. they could of used a wood stake at the beginning to mark the spot. I'm just going by what I see.

IMO it looks more like a metal stake than wood. the still photo appears to have several markers? 
« Last Edit: February 14, 2019, 07:32:26 AM by Shutter »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4655 on: February 14, 2019, 07:35:53 AM »
After reviewing Palmer marking a spot on the photo it appears to be further north of the money find. it's past the tree line that is close to the last entrance. no audio explaining why he's pointing at that location.
 

Online EU

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4656 on: February 14, 2019, 08:21:13 AM »
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After reviewing Palmer marking a spot on the photo it appears to be further north of the money find. it's past the tree line that is close to the last entrance. no audio explaining why he's pointing at that location.

The 6a.jpeg that Goerger posts above of Palmer pointing to a spot is absolutely correct. It is the spot I identified. It is about 20 feet from the northern property line.
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Online EU

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4657 on: February 14, 2019, 08:31:12 AM »
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Here's another KATU video. In it a guy says they found pieces up to 2-3 feet down. He doesn't say where though.

Edit: He actually says the shards were found in the same vicinity of the original large quantity of money.



Dorwin simply misspoke. There is no evidence of anything holes dug 3 feet deep except for the Palmer trenches to examine strata.

In fact, you can easily see the plaid shirt agent discovering the small fragment at a depth of about 12-18 inches.

Furthermore, it stands to reason that if there was a hole 3 feet deep and a fragment was found at that depth that they would continue to dig deeper, perhaps another foot or so thereby making the hole 4 feet deep. Yet there is no evidence to support such deep holes.

You can look at the depth of the holes on camera and be assured that they actually exceed the depth at which shards were found.
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4658 on: February 14, 2019, 09:00:10 AM »
Eric, I don't know if you have the full screen version of the KATU video but it shows two different levels in the dig where a piece was found. again, this video does not document everything going on. towards the end the reporter is in the hole and it's not 18" deep. not much was found at the 3 foot level. most of the pieces were 2 feet and above.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2019, 09:15:00 AM by Shutter »
 

Online EU

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4659 on: February 14, 2019, 09:37:46 AM »
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Eric, I don't know if you have the full screen version of the KATU video but it shows two different levels in the dig where a piece was found. again, this video does not document everything going on. towards the end the reporter is in the hole and it's not 18" deep. not much was found at the 3 foot level. most of the pieces were 2 feet and above.

Yes I have the larger full-screen version.

At the beginning the reporter even states that they're digging "maybe a foot and a half down, two feet at the most." And the footage of the agents in the background substantiate that estimate. The footage also clearly shows the plaid-shirt agent--the guy who finds the shard while filming--in the background too.

Baring in mind that sand is also piled immediately adjacent to the digging all over the place it may appear that the holes are deeper. However, when I looked closely at all of the footage and pictures I estimated that the great majority of what we are looking at is within 18". Nonetheless, we can casually watch the footage and clearly see there is no one waist-deep in some hole.

Also consider this question: If the shards were found 3' deep and these pieces were found on top of the 1974 dredge spoil layer, where did all of this additional sand (at least top 3') come from? Someone shipped it in and piled over 3' feet of sand on top of the dredge spoil layer--which by the way is over 300 feet away--after 1974? Remember, this is after 6 years of constant erosion (1974 dredge to 1980 money find). That suggests that perhaps as much as 5 feet of fresh sand somehow ended up on top of the 1974 dredge spoils. That makes no sense.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2019, 09:51:08 AM by EU »
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4660 on: February 14, 2019, 11:00:16 AM »
the start of the video is almost the start of the dig. it's not going to automatically go to 3 feet. you are basing this on a video showing "in progress" work. things will change during that period. one would be depth. kind of like saying 6 hours before a hurricane and only 4 foot waves coming in....even in the video towards the very end with the reporter in the hole showing where the ground begins showing dirt above from the dig. the stake is a foot off the bottom.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2019, 11:02:23 AM by Shutter »
 

Online EU

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4661 on: February 14, 2019, 11:23:13 AM »
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the start of the video is almost the start of the dig. it's not going to automatically go to 3 feet. you are basing this on a video showing "in progress" work. things will change during that period. one would be depth. kind of like saying 6 hours before a hurricane and only 4 foot waves coming in....even in the video towards the very end with the reporter in the hole showing where the ground begins showing dirt above from the dig. the stake is a foot off the bottom.

A couple of points.

1) The only additional pieces found were on the first day of digging (when Schroeder was interviewed).

2) We have footage and pictures after the digging ended which shows Palmer's trench being dug near the money find spot. Richard Fazio is actually operating the backhoe.
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4662 on: February 14, 2019, 11:24:13 AM »
No it doesn't make sense that the beach didn't erode. I've been saying that for years as well. the top layer or second (have to check) Palmer reports is consistent with the material taken off the bottom of the river for testing in another dredge operation in the 90's. Kaye believes Palmer found the clay layer that runs the entire beach front.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4663 on: February 14, 2019, 11:25:19 AM »
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the start of the video is almost the start of the dig. it's not going to automatically go to 3 feet. you are basing this on a video showing "in progress" work. things will change during that period. one would be depth. kind of like saying 6 hours before a hurricane and only 4 foot waves coming in....even in the video towards the very end with the reporter in the hole showing where the ground begins showing dirt above from the dig. the stake is a foot off the bottom.

A couple of points.

1) The only additional pieces found were on the first day of digging (when Schroeder was interviewed).

2) We have footage and pictures after the digging ended which shows Palmer's trench being dug near the money find spot. Richard Fazio is actually operating the backhoe.

Unless actual notes are found it's hard to believe anything. the Fazio's claimed they only pushed the sand 50 yards north and south.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4664 on: February 14, 2019, 11:28:30 AM »
Read the newspapers...lots of inconsistencies

FBI finds a fist size clump..
$3,000 of the money was recovered....

etc. etc. etc.