Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
6 (9.5%)
25% Cooper lived
4 (6.3%)
35% Cooper lived.
2 (3.2%)
50% Cooper lived
14 (22.2%)
75% Cooper lived
14 (22.2%)
100 Cooper lived
23 (36.5%)

Total Members Voted: 58

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 1407471 times)

Offline andrade1812

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1590 on: March 28, 2017, 03:50:18 PM »
The tie is a big deal to us, now. To Cooper, it meant nothing. He wasn't worried about DNA, microscopic particles or Tom Kaye. Taking it off before the jump was a perfectly rational decision, from his perspective. Overthinking things clouds the more important issues of the case.
 

georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1591 on: March 28, 2017, 04:04:22 PM »
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The tie is a big deal to us, now. To Cooper, it meant nothing. He wasn't worried about DNA, microscopic particles or Tom Kaye. Taking it off before the jump was a perfectly rational decision, from his perspective. Overthinking things clouds the more important issues of the case.

couldnt agree more -  :)
 
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MeyerLouie

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1592 on: March 28, 2017, 07:55:29 PM »
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Where to dump an unwanted clip-on tie during a skyjacking:

1. Stick it in the briefcase.
2. Give it to Tina as a souvenir.
3. Throw it out the door.
4. Wrap it in toilet paper and throw it in the trash can.
5. Tie it to the bundle of stuff that was going out the door, such as the reserve chute with the X on it.
6. Tie it to the handle of the money bag clinch so it wouldn't chaff his hands.
7. Tie it around one shoe so that he is not totally barefoot on the ground.
8. Tuck it into the empty laminate pouch on the door since the instructional card was gone.
9. Wrap it around the crew's dinner to keep it a little warmer.
10. Smear hot sauce and gravy on it, and then place it next to the crew dinners so the German Shepherds go nuts.

Just sayin'...

or.... after Cooper going through all the issues to get ready for the jump, especially creating a makeshift carrier for the cash, at the end of it he realizes its minor annoyance and thinks "I don't need this tie" and grabs it and chucks it off, rather than taking storage space, which was quite limited.  In fact, that tena money could have been the three bundles he pulled to give to Mucklow, and when she wouldnt take it, he stuffs it in his pocket.  Or it didnt fit in bag and he was stuffing his pockets with bundles of cash. The tie wasn't needed, it would have been an annoyance, so he chucks it.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How much fricking space does a clip on tie take up?  Answer: not very much.  Apparently, Diclemeg, you've never owned, or stored away, a clip on tie.  They can be stored in virtually any cubby hole, anywhere -- they take up next to nothing in terms of space.  How much annoyance can a clip on tie be?  Answer: not very much.  Why do you insist on pole vaulting mouse turds with such an insignificant issue? And the Tina Bar money -- if he stuffed them in his pocket, how then did they get to Tina Bar, all nicely stacked together no less?

Meyer
 

Offline dice

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1593 on: March 28, 2017, 09:47:15 PM »
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Where to dump an unwanted clip-on tie during a skyjacking:

1. Stick it in the briefcase.
2. Give it to Tina as a souvenir.
3. Throw it out the door.
4. Wrap it in toilet paper and throw it in the trash can.
5. Tie it to the bundle of stuff that was going out the door, such as the reserve chute with the X on it.
6. Tie it to the handle of the money bag clinch so it wouldn't chaff his hands.
7. Tie it around one shoe so that he is not totally barefoot on the ground.
8. Tuck it into the empty laminate pouch on the door since the instructional card was gone.
9. Wrap it around the crew's dinner to keep it a little warmer.
10. Smear hot sauce and gravy on it, and then place it next to the crew dinners so the German Shepherds go nuts.

Just sayin'...

or.... after Cooper going through all the issues to get ready for the jump, especially creating a makeshift carrier for the cash, at the end of it he realizes its minor annoyance and thinks "I don't need this tie" and grabs it and chucks it off, rather than taking storage space, which was quite limited.  In fact, that tena money could have been the three bundles he pulled to give to Mucklow, and when she wouldnt take it, he stuffs it in his pocket.  Or it didnt fit in bag and he was stuffing his pockets with bundles of cash. The tie wasn't needed, it would have been an annoyance, so he chucks it.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How much fricking space does a clip on tie take up?  Answer: not very much.  Apparently, Diclemeg, you've never owned, or stored away, a clip on tie.  They can be stored in virtually any cubby hole, anywhere -- they take up next to nothing in terms of space.  How much annoyance can a clip on tie be?  Answer: not very much.  Why do you insist on pole vaulting mouse turds with such an insignificant issue? And the Tina Bar money -- if he stuffed them in his pocket, how then did they get to Tina Bar, all nicely stacked together no less?

Meyer

I'm not making any issue about the tie, instead I was giving my opinion about it made by another. 
And yes, I did have a clip on.  And, I think many might agree that when wearing a tie, one cant wait to remove it. I know I unbutton my neck button and remove the tie as soon as possible.  That is all I was saying in response to Robert, that it could have simply been that it no longer served the purpose and he chucked it.
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FLYJACK

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1594 on: March 28, 2017, 10:28:54 PM »
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Where to dump an unwanted clip-on tie during a skyjacking:

1. Stick it in the briefcase.
2. Give it to Tina as a souvenir.
3. Throw it out the door.
4. Wrap it in toilet paper and throw it in the trash can.
5. Tie it to the bundle of stuff that was going out the door, such as the reserve chute with the X on it.
6. Tie it to the handle of the money bag clinch so it wouldn't chaff his hands.
7. Tie it around one shoe so that he is not totally barefoot on the ground.
8. Tuck it into the empty laminate pouch on the door since the instructional card was gone.
9. Wrap it around the crew's dinner to keep it a little warmer.
10. Smear hot sauce and gravy on it, and then place it next to the crew dinners so the German Shepherds go nuts.

Just sayin'...

or.... after Cooper going through all the issues to get ready for the jump, especially creating a makeshift carrier for the cash, at the end of it he realizes its minor annoyance and thinks "I don't need this tie" and grabs it and chucks it off, rather than taking storage space, which was quite limited.  In fact, that tena money could have been the three bundles he pulled to give to Mucklow, and when she wouldnt take it, he stuffs it in his pocket.  Or it didnt fit in bag and he was stuffing his pockets with bundles of cash. The tie wasn't needed, it would have been an annoyance, so he chucks it.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How much fricking space does a clip on tie take up?  Answer: not very much.  Apparently, Diclemeg, you've never owned, or stored away, a clip on tie.  They can be stored in virtually any cubby hole, anywhere -- they take up next to nothing in terms of space.  How much annoyance can a clip on tie be?  Answer: not very much.  Why do you insist on pole vaulting mouse turds with such an insignificant issue? And the Tina Bar money -- if he stuffed them in his pocket, how then did they get to Tina Bar, all nicely stacked together no less?

Meyer

I'm not making any issue about the tie, instead I was giving my opinion about it made by another. 
And yes, I did have a clip on.  And, I think many might agree that when wearing a tie, one cant wait to remove it. I know I unbutton my neck button and remove the tie as soon as possible.  That is all I was saying in response to Robert, that it could have simply been that it no longer served the purpose and he chucked it.

The context of my question was "why would he plant the tie for investigators" to challenge Colbert's "team of expert's" assertion, not could he have left the tie.

Makes no sense to me..
 

georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1595 on: April 08, 2017, 04:17:41 PM »
Negotiable American Currency

I dont understand some people's fixation with this. The phrase stated by the crew makes perfect sense in the context and timing in which it was said. It's the context and timing people keep avoiding! We know who said it and why they said it - the crew said it! Cooper didn't say it! We know why the crew said it!

Flyjack insists:

FLYJACK
Dec 27, 2013, 8:37 AM
Post #49623 of 58140 (45156 views)
Re: [Smokin99] "negotiable American currency" [In reply to]
 
________________________________________
Smokin99 wrote:
There is no way to tell whether those were Cooper's exact words, or whether it was something the crew said on their own to make sure the FBI didn't play games about the ransom.

FLYJACK:
Sure, but explain why the crew might add it,,, if they are American,,, the argument makes no sense,, the hijacker didn't say it because he is an American, but the crew added it even though they are American..

something doesn't add up here..
   

This has nothing to do with American vs. foreign or anything else related to Cooper identity! This was a statement made by a crew member in the context of, or in reply to, what was being said and happening at the time in the plane - which was Cooper's demands and destination just having been given and now being communicated to_ THE CREW IS COMMUNICATING TO PEOPLE ON THE GROUND!

1. Cooper had just demanded $200,000 denominations not important. He specified that.
2. Cooper had just specified his destination as "Mexico City" and "the plane will not stop anywhere in the United States".

Cooper has just specified 'cash - denominations not important'. Cooper has just specified 'Mexico City' and said the plane cannot stop anywhere in the United States. Cooper has just demanded a one-way-trip from Seattle to Mexico City ... which is in a foreign country!

A crew member is now trying to translate all of this to the ground in brief intelligible terms anyone could understand. "Negotiable American Currency". The phrase covers all aspects of Cooper's demands in a single phrase anyone can understand. No more. No less.

It is context and time context a crew member is trying to communicate the hijacker's demands.

That is ALL there is to this. It is the crew communicating with the ground, not Cooper communicating to the world! These aren't Cooper's own words. They are a crew member's words in TACTICAL TECHNICAL SPEAK said in simple terms so any dumbass in the masses listening can understand ! The crew member is stating what will work in this situation where the hijacker wants cash and is headed for a foreign country right across the US border.   

 :)) 

« Last Edit: April 08, 2017, 06:07:38 PM by georger »
 

Offline 377

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1596 on: April 14, 2017, 02:50:28 PM »
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The tie is a big deal to us, now. To Cooper, it meant nothing. He wasn't worried about DNA, microscopic particles or Tom Kaye. Taking it off before the jump was a perfectly rational decision, from his perspective. Overthinking things clouds the more important issues of the case.

couldnt agree more -  :)

Me too.

377
 

Offline dice

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1597 on: April 20, 2017, 10:51:40 AM »
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The tie is a big deal to us, now. To Cooper, it meant nothing. He wasn't worried about DNA, microscopic particles or Tom Kaye. Taking it off before the jump was a perfectly rational decision, from his perspective. Overthinking things clouds the more important issues of the case.

couldnt agree more -  :)


Unmentioned above, were fingerprints.  Would Cooper have been concerned by leaving fingerprints on a polyester/nylon tie?   
If we assume yes, then that would imply that he took it off to get it out of way, early in his prep, and maybe forgot about it, being concerned about the other issues like the stairs.
If we assume no, then it could have a been left as a diss to a former employer or FBI or whoever,  or again, that he forgot about it.

And that he left the tie, could also imply that he wasn't management, but on the blue collar side, and that this was his disguise, getting the tie from his workplace.

A side thought.... 
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1598 on: April 20, 2017, 11:20:00 PM »
Quote
Unmentioned above, were fingerprints.  Would Cooper have been concerned by leaving fingerprints on a polyester/nylon tie?   
If we assume yes, then that would imply that he took it off to get it out of way, early in his prep, and maybe forgot about it, being concerned about the other issues like the stairs.
If we assume no, then it could have a been left as a diss to a former employer or FBI or whoever,  or again, that he forgot about it.

And that he left the tie, could also imply that he wasn't management, but on the blue collar side, and that this was his disguise, getting the tie from his workplace.

A side thought....

1971 was a whole different ball game for law enforcement. they didn't have much technology other than lifting prints off of smooth surfaces..Cooper could of took it off so it didn't smack him in the face on the way out, I don't know? touch DNA is a lost cause with so many agents handling the tie...the thing Cooper probably didn't count on were the butts. he left those without a care in the world. he was extremely lucky they lost them....
« Last Edit: April 20, 2017, 11:22:40 PM by Shutter »
 

georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1599 on: April 20, 2017, 11:33:38 PM »
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Quote
Unmentioned above, were fingerprints.  Would Cooper have been concerned by leaving fingerprints on a polyester/nylon tie?   
If we assume yes, then that would imply that he took it off to get it out of way, early in his prep, and maybe forgot about it, being concerned about the other issues like the stairs.
If we assume no, then it could have a been left as a diss to a former employer or FBI or whoever,  or again, that he forgot about it.

And that he left the tie, could also imply that he wasn't management, but on the blue collar side, and that this was his disguise, getting the tie from his workplace.

A side thought....

1971 was a whole different ball game for law enforcement. they didn't have much technology other than lifting prints off of smooth surfaces..Cooper could of took it off so it didn't smack him in the face on the way out, I don't know? touch DNA is a lost cause with so many agents handling the tie...the thing Cooper probably didn't count on were the butts. he left those without a care in the world. he was extremely lucky they lost them....

I would run anything found! Anything! Even the cat and dog serum!  :))  RUN IT ALL!   
 

Offline 377

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1600 on: April 21, 2017, 06:20:40 PM »
I agree, run everything.

I am not at all convinced that the cig butts are truly lost.

I have been up against the FBI in federal criminal cases and they are quite professional and careful in evidence collection, preservation and chain of custody documentation. Everything is bagged and tagged and every transfer is recorded. Evidence in unsolved major cases isn't just thrown away. And this certainly was an embarrassing major case. It was their ONLY unsolved skyjacking.

Saying they only have a partial DNA sample from a tie that might have been Cooper's might be a clever strategy.

377
« Last Edit: April 21, 2017, 06:21:48 PM by 377 »
 

MeyerLouie

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1601 on: April 22, 2017, 02:08:06 AM »
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..the thing Cooper probably didn't count on were the butts. he left those without a care in the world. he was extremely lucky they lost them....

______________________

They lost 'em alright, lost 'em on purpose.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1602 on: April 22, 2017, 11:08:44 AM »
I'm not so sure they have the butts. they spend a lot on man hours vetting a suspect. it would probably be cheaper just to run the test and get a positive result that would over rule all the "coincidences" the suspects have with there stories.
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1603 on: April 22, 2017, 05:51:08 PM »
Okay, 377, please lay out your Big Picture of what is going on with the FBI in Norjak. I accept your notion that the Bureau is too smart and too professional to lose evidence in their only unsolved skyjacking case. So they are setting up smoke screens? Why?

What say you?

...don't be afraid to add in Cossey, special treatment of GG, the T-Bar find, LD being announced as the "most promising," etc...
« Last Edit: April 22, 2017, 05:51:57 PM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1604 on: April 22, 2017, 11:38:33 PM »
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Okay, 377, please lay out your Big Picture of what is going on with the FBI in Norjak. I accept your notion that the Bureau is too smart and too professional to lose evidence in their only unsolved skyjacking case. So they are setting up smoke screens? Why?

What say you?

...don't be afraid to add in Cossey, special treatment of GG, the T-Bar find, LD being announced as the "most promising," etc...

Why is Pi 3.14159.... and not a simple whole prime integer ? God must be a conspiracy. Dont be shy - I know you have the answer.  :))

Maybe the problem is not the FBI but erroneous expectations and interpretations based on bias?

BTW Mr Cooper expert, who is the agent standing directly behind the person showing the fragment found in the KIRO video?  I'm asking you again and still no response.  ;)
« Last Edit: April 23, 2017, 12:00:42 AM by georger »