Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
5 (11.4%)
25% Cooper lived
3 (6.8%)
35% Cooper lived.
1 (2.3%)
50% Cooper lived
10 (22.7%)
75% Cooper lived
9 (20.5%)
100 Cooper lived
16 (36.4%)

Total Members Voted: 39

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 422558 times)

Offline Robert99

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 756
  • Thanked: 96 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5580 on: May 10, 2020, 05:29:58 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
could the white rope be part of the container and not the parachute itself that was dyed pink? see photo of the clips being tied back..

It is unlikely that the white rope came from the pink reserve.  Also, there is nothing conclusive to prove that the white rope came from the missing reserve.  Who knows, the missing reserve may have been dyed pink as well.

Reserve chest parachutes were in very short supply in the 1960s.  The one in question was probably dyed pink to identify it as belonging to the skydiving center where it came from.  What was in the missing reserve was apparently junk from damaged reserves or other sources.  So who knows if it was white, pink, polka dot, or some combination of these and other colors.

Based on the appearance of having been heavily used, it appears to me that the source of the white rope remains to be seen.  Again, based on his inspection of the pink reserve, maybe Tom Kaye could comment further. 

And if the white rope came from the missing reserve, why didn't Cooper just leave the remainder of the canopy on the airliner as he did with the pink reserve?  If he threw that canopy out the back of the aircraft, it would be more likely to be found than anything else he disposed of or even his own body assuming he was a no-pull.
 

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7965
  • Thanked: 778 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5581 on: May 10, 2020, 05:32:45 PM »
I sent Tom an email shortly after my last post...hopefully he will chime in..

as mentioned before..there was plenty of rope on the pink chute so why use rope from another?
« Last Edit: May 10, 2020, 05:33:35 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7965
  • Thanked: 778 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5582 on: May 10, 2020, 05:39:21 PM »
According to the FBI along with Cossey the dummy chute was white as well as the lines..
 

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7965
  • Thanked: 778 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5583 on: May 10, 2020, 05:44:10 PM »
He left the other back chute...he tore up one chute and left the remains..odds would have parts of the second reserve left on the plane vs thrown out..the briefcase might of been a danger to him being left behind (evidence)..the chutes not used had no value with incrimination..
 

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7965
  • Thanked: 778 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5584 on: May 10, 2020, 06:15:25 PM »
Tom seems to believe it's part of the original construction of the canopy....I mean container..
« Last Edit: May 10, 2020, 09:25:08 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline Robert99

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 756
  • Thanked: 96 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5585 on: May 10, 2020, 11:20:34 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Tom seems to believe it's part of the original construction of the canopy....I mean container..

This would not be from the pink reserve parachute.  If it was from the missing reserve, it would be just another shroud line and it appears to me to be slightly larger than a shroud line (compare with the pink shroud lines).
 

Offline dudeman17

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 30
  • Thanked: 9 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5586 on: May 10, 2020, 11:53:55 PM »
Those white lines are not a normal part of the container. They do appear to be parachute suspension lines. Everything else is speculation, none of it provable. The questions in my mind were, where else would they come from but the other reserve, and why else would they be there unless he tried to tie it on. They don't look 'more worn' to me, just the cut ends are frayed, possibly from an awkward cut if he cut it back off after tying it on.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
In my jumping experience, one of these snaps almost always came unfastened during the opening.
 

Where would you get an idea like that? Not even close. Just because your friend apparently failed to hook one up correctly once...


As for a rigger, I would suggest looking up JerryBaumchen over at DZ. You'd probably find him in Gear and Rigging, or in Speaker's Corner. I've never interacted with him, he probably doesn't know who I am, but from reading his posts he appears to be a knowledgable old-school rigger who would probably be familiar with gear from this era.
 

Offline Robert99

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 756
  • Thanked: 96 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5587 on: May 11, 2020, 12:12:01 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Those white lines are not a normal part of the container. They do appear to be parachute suspension lines. Everything else is speculation, none of it provable. The questions in my mind were, where else would they come from but the other reserve, and why else would they be there unless he tried to tie it on. They don't look 'more worn' to me, just the cut ends are frayed, possibly from an awkward cut if he cut it back off after tying it on.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
In my jumping experience, one of these snaps almost always came unfastened during the opening.
 

Where would you get an idea like that? Not even close. Just because your friend apparently failed to hook one up correctly once...


As for a rigger, I would suggest looking up JerryBaumchen over at DZ. You'd probably find him in Gear and Rigging, or in Speaker's Corner. I've never interacted with him, he probably doesn't know who I am, but from reading his posts he appears to be a knowledgable old-school rigger who would probably be familiar with gear from this era.

Where would I get an idea like that?  By looking at the snaps after the main canopy opened.  Elementary, Dr. Dudeman17.  If both snaps are securely fastened before the exit, and then one is unfastened after the opening, ergo, etc.!  This was a common problem in the 1960s.

Do you have experience jumping with belly mounted reserves?
 

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7965
  • Thanked: 778 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5588 on: May 11, 2020, 07:23:49 AM »
I'm trying to follow the logic of using another set of lines to attach and why no evidence of a second chute dismantle was left behind like everything else that was discarded or not used?

Here is one with a cord/line on the outside of the container..
« Last Edit: May 11, 2020, 07:45:14 AM by Shutter »
 

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7965
  • Thanked: 778 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5589 on: May 11, 2020, 07:48:40 AM »
Another pic with lines coming out of the container...
 

Offline Robert99

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 756
  • Thanked: 96 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5590 on: May 11, 2020, 01:11:39 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I'm trying to follow the logic of using another set of lines to attach and why no evidence of a second chute dismantle was left behind like everything else that was discarded or not used?

Here is one with a cord/line on the outside of the container..

Those are just normal threads holding the fasteners in place.  The shroud line connections to the fasteners are inside the pack and not shown.  The short cord tied around the end hand loop is not part of the parachute assembly.
 

Offline Robert99

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 756
  • Thanked: 96 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5591 on: May 11, 2020, 01:15:14 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Another pic with lines coming out of the container...

In this picture, the ripcord is not in its housing and it looks like some kind of plastic tie is attached to it.  The cord underneath the pack apparently is the same one attached to a handle in your previous post and is not part of the parachute assembly.
 

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7965
  • Thanked: 778 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5592 on: May 11, 2020, 01:48:03 PM »
Same chute both pics..found it interesting to have lines coming out (frayed) similar to our issue..
« Last Edit: May 11, 2020, 01:48:52 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline Robert99

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 756
  • Thanked: 96 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5593 on: May 11, 2020, 02:15:06 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Same chute both pics..found it interesting to have lines coming out (frayed) similar to our issue..

If you are talking about the cord line that is attached to the handle, it is not part of the parachute.  The reason for it being attached to the handle is not known, but it serves no function related to the parachute except maybe something to hang it up by.  The fact that this cord is so frayed means that it has been in use for a very long time and is not something that Cooper would have cut and messed with for five minutes.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2020, 04:05:48 PM by Robert99 »
 

Offline georger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2012
  • Thanked: 286 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5594 on: May 11, 2020, 03:02:54 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Those white lines are not a normal part of the container. They do appear to be parachute suspension lines. Everything else is speculation, none of it provable. The questions in my mind were, where else would they come from but the other reserve, and why else would they be there unless he tried to tie it on. They don't look 'more worn' to me, just the cut ends are frayed, possibly from an awkward cut if he cut it back off after tying it on.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
In my jumping experience, one of these snaps almost always came unfastened during the opening.
 


Where would you get an idea like that? Not even close. Just because your friend apparently failed to hook one up correctly once...


As for a rigger, I would suggest looking up JerryBaumchen over at DZ. You'd probably find him in Gear and Rigging, or in Speaker's Corner. I've never interacted with him, he probably doesn't know who I am, but from reading his posts he appears to be a knowledgable old-school rigger who would probably be familiar with gear from this era.

Yes. Rigger JerryBaumchen over at DZ shared his knowledge several times in the Old Cooper thread at DZ. His opinion should be sought. I doubt any of the 'vested interests' here will do that! I guess it falls on you to ask Baumchen, if you will . . . it would be nice to have his input on these questions. It might only take him seconds to explain what these photos are showing, or not. I hope you ask his opinion!
 :congrats:
« Last Edit: May 11, 2020, 03:05:44 PM by georger »