Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
5 (11.6%)
25% Cooper lived
2 (4.7%)
35% Cooper lived.
1 (2.3%)
50% Cooper lived
10 (23.3%)
75% Cooper lived
9 (20.9%)
100 Cooper lived
16 (37.2%)

Total Members Voted: 38

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 405492 times)

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5340 on: March 29, 2020, 11:55:44 PM »
A jet-setter from Quebec City. I base all of this on the green paper bag. And chicken entrails read by Swami Cooper.

And the other guy stole my lines from a decade ago!   :nono:
« Last Edit: March 30, 2020, 01:02:58 AM by georger »
 

Offline Prospector

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5341 on: March 30, 2020, 02:36:18 PM »
Power and control is somewhat like heroin, once you have had a taste of it, you want more.  The more you have, the more you need to be satisfied.  For some, it can become an addiction.  When it is denied, the addicted can lose impulse control and become hostile.  It is apparent from the info released to the public that he was most comfortable when he had power and was in control.  He articulated that there would be no tolerance to him being toyed with, no “funny stuff”.  An example of his impulse control failing is the gruff tone taken with the refueling delays, his calm demeanor was undermined by a perceived threat to his successful completion of his operational plan, being denied power and control. 

This could be applied to possible behaviors to be on the lookout for that he may have exhibited within a community before and after the event.  He would likely be an individual who people may describe as being “controlling” and “easily angered” when he “did not get his way”.   He may also boldly invest much effort into bringing people around to his way of thinking.  He may manipulate thoughts and opinions of associates by trying to convince vs. merely conveying information.  People who questioned his point of view and authority or vetted his claims of fact could be witness to his predatory anger and vindictive retaliation.  Documentation may exist that demonstrates a long standing pattern to this behavior.

Some people have a hard time hiding that they have something to hide.

 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5342 on: March 30, 2020, 07:12:44 PM »
I like your analysis, 'Spector. Made me think, and see DBC in a new light.
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5343 on: March 31, 2020, 12:12:17 AM »
Power and control is somewhat like heroin, once you have had a taste of it, you want more.    There is no evidence that Cooper had a control or power addiction. In fact the very opposite may be the case.  He issued specific instructions for people to follow vs. shouting/threatening/boasting/arguing or hysterical confused orders combined with bullying. etc. ;D

Cooper said he had a grudge. Those are not the words of a control person or power addiction. Cooper may have seen himself as a classless victim who had never had much power in his life - a person used to taking orders? We just dont have enough details. If the particles on the tie are his, then he may have been part of a large power structure, with little personal discretion ?

Different hijackers have handled the issue of 'control' differently, using different devices. (1) In Cooper's case he chose a bomb and the threat of a bomb (he showed the bomb and explained its operation methodically, to certify his claim.) – bombs are a fairly strong determiner/deterrent to interference which need little elaboration  (2) He issued concrete demands that were logical and possible to fulfill.  (3) He requested/demanded cooperation. The President of NWO (Nyrop) complied quickly - issued an Order for no interference.  (4) Cooper was quiet and non-demonstrable so as not to alert or excite passengers! He made no loud announcements to passengers. He worked specifically through stews and nobody else.  (5) After noting Flo's initial reaction he got rid of Flo (sent her to the cockpit!) and selected the quieter, calmer, more rational Tina to be his companion and communicator. He rejected and nullified Hancock probably because of her age and her supervisory role between stews, but he answered her questions in a straightforward manner sufficient to keep her informed. (6) Cooper maintained distance between himself and everyone else except for Tina. (7) DB Cooper was not Donald Trump on a power trip!

Those are not the actions of a power addict celebrating power. Cooper is a methodical person exercising control by recognition of a system in which specific people are in control of the plane who can satisfy his demands quietly with deliberation, when given instructions without any conspicuous disturbance or involvement of others inside the plane. That requires a ton of patience and personal control on Cooper's part ... which is part of his personality profile.  [For example a personality like the Unabomber could never have kept himself together long enough to duplicate the social intelligence Cooper demonstrated .]
« Last Edit: March 31, 2020, 12:35:39 AM by georger »
 
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Offline Prospector

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5344 on: March 31, 2020, 02:15:56 PM »
Examining the origins of the information pertaining to the pursing of the lips would indicate that an important piece of information may have been inadvertently released to the public.  It is worth consideration as it is indicative of tardive dyskinesia.  The action of the mouth in this case is described as having relaxed and firm positions that may appear when pulsating in rhythm to resemble a goldfish while oxygenating the gills.  The action, when observed, is variable between a subtle twitch when he is calm and relaxed to a rapid pulsating increasing in intensity as excitement or concentration increases in intensity.   It is a permanent involuntary action that persists into old age.  Tardive dyskinesia may be an unintended side effect of the 1st Generation anti-psychotic medications and may be indicative of prior abhorrent behaviors of the fugitive that may have attracted the attention of medical professionals in the time period prior to the hijacking.  If validated, it provides a characteristic of the fugitive that would be a valuable tool for people to spot him at a radius far beyond the effectiveness of the composite drawings and other descriptions of the physical characteristics of the hijacker.  It is an eye-catching behavior when observed even from a distance. It would be valuable holdback information as it speaks volumes about him. 
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5345 on: March 31, 2020, 02:42:14 PM »
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Examining the origins of the information pertaining to the pursing of the lips would indicate that an important piece of information may have been inadvertently released to the public.  It is worth consideration as it is indicative of tardive dyskinesia.  The action of the mouth in this case is described as having relaxed and firm positions that may appear when pulsating in rhythm to resemble a goldfish while oxygenating the gills.  The action, when observed, is variable between a subtle twitch when he is calm and relaxed to a rapid pulsating increasing in intensity as excitement or concentration increases in intensity.   It is a permanent involuntary action that persists into old age.  Tardive dyskinesia may be an unintended side effect of the 1st Generation anti-psychotic medications and may be indicative of prior abhorrent behaviors of the fugitive that may have attracted the attention of medical professionals in the time period prior to the hijacking.  If validated, it provides a characteristic of the fugitive that would be a valuable tool for people to spot him at a radius far beyond the effectiveness of the composite drawings and other descriptions of the physical characteristics of the hijacker.  It is an eye-catching behavior when observed even from a distance. It would be valuable holdback information as it speaks volumes about him.

tardive dyskinesia. Yepper, that looks and acts just like him. Along with his crippled right foot and missing left arm! Do you sit around and make this stuff up?  :rofl:
 

Offline EU

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5346 on: April 01, 2020, 09:34:41 AM »
One other thing that I don't believe I've mentioned here relates to the alligator tie clip DBC left behind.

I have always referred to the tie clip as a cheap, imitation mother-of-pearl, clip. Additionally, when Tom Kaye described finding gold on the tie he ascribed it to the tie clip and other jewelry that he apparently wore on the tie--which I somewhat discounted because I believed the tie clip probably was not actually plated with real gold.

All of this said, I was at Tom's place a few weeks back and brought the tie clip--and accompanying cufflinks--that I have that is precisely the same as the one DBC left behind with the tie. While there, Tom actually tested the tie clip and cufflinks and determined that indeed they were both platted with real gold. So, Tom was right, the traces of gold found on the tie can be attributed, at least in part, to the tie clip that he wore with the tie.

Also, I checked and learned that the tie clip--and cufflinks--feature real mother-of-pearl, not fake as I had assumed.

My point being, I'm not really sure how "cheap" the tie clip and its accompany set of cufflinks, tie tack, and money clip actually were. Perhaps this accessory set was actually a little more upscale?
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

RFK
 
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Offline fcastle866

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5347 on: April 01, 2020, 02:36:09 PM »
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One other thing that I don't believe I've mentioned here relates to the alligator tie clip DBC left behind.

I have always referred to the tie clip as a cheap, imitation mother-of-pearl, clip. Additionally, when Tom Kaye described finding gold on the tie he ascribed it to the tie clip and other jewelry that he apparently wore on the tie--which I somewhat discounted because I believed the tie clip probably was not actually plated with real gold.

All of this said, I was at Tom's place a few weeks back and brought the tie clip--and accompanying cufflinks--that I have that is precisely the same as the one DBC left behind with the tie. While there, Tom actually tested the tie clip and cufflinks and determined that indeed they were both platted with real gold. So, Tom was right, the traces of gold found on the tie can be attributed, at least in part, to the tie clip that he wore with the tie.

Also, I checked and learned that the tie clip--and cufflinks--feature real mother-of-pearl, not fake as I had assumed.

My point being, I'm not really sure how "cheap" the tie clip and its accompany set of cufflinks, tie tack, and money clip actually were. Perhaps this accessory set was actually a little more upscale?

Do we know how much the tie clip cost back in that time period?  The first thing that comes to mind is "why have a cheap clip on tie, but a fancy tie clip and cuff links set?"  It would be an odd combination, maybe the clip was a gift.  I often wonder what would have happened if the FBI had shown a picture of the tie in 1971, would someone have come forward who recognized it?  I suspect it was used as a holdback.

Just a personal observation about a tie clip.  When I've worn tie clips or tacks, it has been more to keep my tie in place for say a picture, or in an outfit I really don't want the tie to be moving around in.  If I was wearing a tie more often, say for work, I would not usually use a clip.  I wonder how popular tie clips were back then?  If Cooper was around machinery, then a tie clip would likely not be unusual.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2020, 02:58:17 PM by fcastle866 »
 

Offline EU

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5348 on: April 01, 2020, 03:12:09 PM »
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Do we know how much the tie clip cost back in that time period?  The first thing that comes to mind is "why have a cheap clip on tie, but a fancy tie clip and cuff links set?"

Just a personal observation about a tie clip.  When I've worn tie clips or tacks, it has been more to keep my tie in place for say a picture, or in an outfit I really don't want the tie to be moving around in.  If I was wearing a tie more often, say for work, I would not usually use a clip.  I wonder how popular tie clips were back then?  If Cooper was around machinery, then a tie clip would likely not be unusual.

I don't know how much this set would have cost back in the 60's, that said, it does appear to have been a pretty nice set...maybe it wasn't even sold at Penney's.

What makes all of this important is that we can safely point to a relationship between the tie clip/set and the tie itself, which suggests that the tie was not purchased second-hand...not that this is a serious consideration anyway.

The reason I suggest a relationship is because the tie clip set also included a tie tack. And, Tom Kaye points out that the tie has a hole in it from the regular usage of a tie tack as well. What this means is that it is very likely that DBC wore this tie a lot with the tie clip attached to the tie, and likely the tie tack from the same set which would also be plated in gold.

In other words, it is unlikely that the tie would have been sold second-hand with the tie clip already attached. And, it appears that this tie clip was used with this tie a lot. Therefore, the logical conclusion is that this tie and tie clip were both owned and used by Cooper a lot, not to mention, the notable fact that the tie also contained commercially pure titanium, aluminum, stainless steel and rare earth elements that suggest a relationship with an aerospace environment and/or a sophisticated manufacturing process.

Put another way, it all smells like Cooper.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

RFK
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5349 on: April 01, 2020, 11:39:14 PM »
Liquor sales soar during shutdown -  :chr2:
 

Offline nickyb233

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5350 on: April 03, 2020, 06:59:22 AM »
My opinion is that everything cooper did was deliberately calculated for a reason and if you approach it with that logic some things start to reveal themselves. I don’t believe there are many coincidences here and very little if at all was random. First let’s start with the name he boarded under Dan Cooper and the way he presented it. Correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t he give his name to the ticket agent as cooper dan cooper, the same way as James Bond in his movies (my name is bond James Bond), we all know about the dan cooper comic so I won’t go into that but that has many connections and then the brandishing of the Raleigh cigs, the face of the brand being Sir Walter Raleigh an English landed gentleman, royal, writer, poet, soldier, politician, courtier, spy and explorer (taken from Wikipedia). Well shit that’s a lot of similarities to James Bond and Major Dan Cooper. DB was so careful in so many ways and that’s why he never was caught. He took back his notes from the stews didn’t leave prints ect. Why did he brandish these cigs by making them clearly visible and letting Tina light them up and even smoke one, if they were camels or marls I would think nothing of it but they weren’t. That would of of been a tell and solid clue for law enforcement that could link back to him, which leads me to believe he wasn’t a normal Raleigh smoker but he admired the guy, if he was a regular smoker of them he could of just as easily had them in a cigarette holder. Of all the infinite names he picks Dan Cooper which shares so many similarities to the even and evidence? Come on! This was personal to Cooper going back to his comment about the grudge, he clearly wanted to leave his mark/stamp or what have you on this thing and in that he gave us subtle clues/insight into who the man was (a glimpse into the legend so to speak) which he was completely comfortable with doing knowing these tells were so obscure nobody in law enforcement was a sophisticated enough thinker to put the pieces of the puzzle together. As The Godfather Bruce Smith has said a time or two, it’s not like you see on TV there aren’t any LT. Olivia Bensons. He was emulating and paying homage to some of his idols Raleigh, Bond, and Dan Cooper!
« Last Edit: April 03, 2020, 08:36:45 AM by nickyb233 »
 

Offline EU

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5351 on: April 03, 2020, 09:54:31 AM »
I think that there is a tendency to look for connections among things that usually don't exist.

People rob banks for a reason. The reason being that they want money.

DB Cooper extorted $200K because he wanted $200K. Moreover, it's safe to assume that he wanted to get away with it...that he didn't want to get caught.

Therefore, may I suggest that sometimes a skyjacking and extortion is nothing more than a skyjacking and extortion. After all, I have yet to identify a single bank robber that ever robbed a bank for anything other than the money.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

RFK
 
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Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5352 on: April 03, 2020, 11:35:11 AM »
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I think that there is a tendency to look for connections among things that usually don't exist.

People rob banks for a reason. The reason being that they want money.

DB Cooper extorted $200K because he wanted $200K. Moreover, it's safe to assume that he wanted to get away with it...that he didn't want to get caught.

Therefore, may I suggest that sometimes a skyjacking and extortion is nothing more than a skyjacking and extortion. After all, I have yet to identify a single bank robber that ever robbed a bank for anything other than the money.

As legendary bank robber Willie Sutton put it, he robbed banks because "that's where the money is."
 

Offline fcastle866

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5353 on: April 03, 2020, 02:16:09 PM »
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I think that there is a tendency to look for connections among things that usually don't exist.

People rob banks for a reason. The reason being that they want money.

DB Cooper extorted $200K because he wanted $200K. Moreover, it's safe to assume that he wanted to get away with it...that he didn't want to get caught.

Therefore, may I suggest that sometimes a skyjacking and extortion is nothing more than a skyjacking and extortion. After all, I have yet to identify a single bank robber that ever robbed a bank for anything other than the money.

Even with having a decent amount of regular work on my plate, I still have a lot of time on my hands.  Take away travel, the bars, sports, the gym, and it does not leave one with a lot to do.  So I'm a little more invested in these conversations than I might be on a regular day.

It may be as simple as he wanted $200,000.  That's a lot of money though.  Over $1 million.  Who needs that much money and does not make it on anyone's radar for gambling debts, major medical expenses, etc.?  I guess if he needed only $10,000, might as well ask for $200,000.  But why not rob a bank instead?

Had any other criminals staged robberies with the intent of getting this much money in the past?  What comes to mind for me is an art heist, or a big con.  Some would agree with me that this hijacking was different in so many ways than the garden variety crime. 

Yes, bank robbers rob banks for the money.  But an airplane hijacking with so many chances for error, and no guarantee that the money would be there?

It could be simple.  He needed the $.  My opinion is there is just something more here than "He just needed the money."  For some reason I thought of Andrew Dice Clay right there.  Again, too much time on my hands.

DB Cooper dead or alive, when found, the money problem may be answered.
 
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Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5354 on: April 03, 2020, 02:54:53 PM »
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I think that there is a tendency to look for connections among things that usually don't exist.

People rob banks for a reason. The reason being that they want money.

DB Cooper extorted $200K because he wanted $200K. Moreover, it's safe to assume that he wanted to get away with it...that he didn't want to get caught.

Therefore, may I suggest that sometimes a skyjacking and extortion is nothing more than a skyjacking and extortion. After all, I have yet to identify a single bank robber that ever robbed a bank for anything other than the money.

Even with having a decent amount of regular work on my plate, I still have a lot of time on my hands.  Take away travel, the bars, sports, the gym, and it does not leave one with a lot to do.  So I'm a little more invested in these conversations than I might be on a regular day.

It may be as simple as he wanted $200,000.  That's a lot of money though.  Over $1 million.  Who needs that much money and does not make it on anyone's radar for gambling debts, major medical expenses, etc.?  I guess if he needed only $10,000, might as well ask for $200,000.  But why not rob a bank instead?

Had any other criminals staged robberies with the intent of getting this much money in the past?  What comes to mind for me is an art heist, or a big con.  Some would agree with me that this hijacking was different in so many ways than the garden variety crime. 

Yes, bank robbers rob banks for the money.  But an airplane hijacking with so many chances for error, and no guarantee that the money would be there?

It could be simple.  He needed the $.  My opinion is there is just something more here than "He just needed the money."  For some reason I thought of Andrew Dice Clay right there.  Again, too much time on my hands.

DB Cooper dead or alive, when found, the money problem may be answered.

In fact, People rob banks for all kinds of reasons. Just as people join Cooper forums for all kinds of reasons!  :o  There are all kinds of people. This was particularly true during the political 1970s, during the Vietnam War.

Of course there is money in banks, but banks are also pivotal citadels of power. Like the King's castle or the Lord's manor! A primary distribution hub for social and governmental policies, etc. Airlines serve a similar important role.  If you want to make a statement you strike at the center of power. Cooper clearly said he had a grudge of some kind. "But not at your airlines", he said. Notice he said "airlines" plural.  ;) That's political, not strictly financial. He chose a bomb which was an instrument of political action and a symbol everyone understood at the time! 

Do you know how many banks and airplanes were blown up during the 1970s just to make a political statement ? Cooper falls in the terrorist category! He said he was hijacking because of a "grudge". SDS and other groups identified with Cooper, as one of their own ... a hero ... whether he identified with them or not.  There is no escaping the political component of his hijacking ...

Cooper's "ideolect" must contain a political component - there's no escaping it. That fact alone rules a number of popular forum suspects out.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2020, 05:36:47 PM by georger »