Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
5 (11.9%)
25% Cooper lived
2 (4.8%)
35% Cooper lived.
1 (2.4%)
50% Cooper lived
10 (23.8%)
75% Cooper lived
8 (19%)
100 Cooper lived
16 (38.1%)

Total Members Voted: 37

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 346256 times)

Offline EU

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5115 on: November 10, 2019, 06:26:13 PM »
yes
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5116 on: November 10, 2019, 06:36:34 PM »
I'm looking on the DZ now...it was just a bank bag tied at the top he showed if not mistaken...
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5117 on: November 10, 2019, 07:40:30 PM »
Back in the old thread on the DZ appears to have some issues. I don't see any photo's and the links don't work. you have to copy them..
 

Offline EU

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5118 on: November 12, 2019, 01:01:38 PM »
I'm just curious which size bank bag that Carr showed. There is nothing in the files that states the size, which is critical to my theory.

That said, I have done quite a bit of research in this area and think it is very likely that the money was delivered in a canvas currency bank bag size H.

The reasons are that the H bag is the proper size bag for the amount of currency delivered. In other words, the size H bag typically holds 12 to 13 bundles depending upon whether the currency has been circulated. The other options are either too small or very big.

Moreover, the witness testimony regarding the size of the money bag--2' X 1'--also suggests the H bag because it is a flat bag sized 29" X 14" when empty.
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Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5119 on: November 12, 2019, 01:27:21 PM »
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I'm just curious which size bank bag that Carr showed. There is nothing in the files that states the size, which is critical to my theory.

That said, I have done quite a bit of research in this area and think it is very likely that the money was delivered in a canvas currency bank bag size H.

The reasons are that the H bag is the proper size bag for the amount of currency delivered. In other words, the size H bag typically holds 12 to 13 bundles depending upon whether the currency has been circulated. The other options are either too small or very big.

Moreover, the witness testimony regarding the size of the money bag--2' X 1'--also suggests the H bag because it is a flat bag sized 29" X 14" when empty.

One of the statements that was posted in the last few days gave the bag dimensions as 1 foot by 1 foot by 9 inches.  This translates to 0.750 cubic feet.  I believe these dimensions were given by someone in the NWA Seattle office immediately before the money was taken out to the aircraft.

The dimensions of American currency bills are 6.14 inches by 2.61 inches by 0.0043 inches.  For the 10,000 bills given to Cooper, this translates to 0.3988 cubic feet.  This is the absolute minimum volume that they could occupy.  So the 0.750 cubic feet estimate given above appears to be realistic.

The weight of a bill is given as about 0.04 ounces or about 1 gram.  There are 454 grams in a pound.  For the 10,000 Cooper bills this translates to 22.03 pounds which is accurate.

Cooper cut about 100 feet of shroud lines from one of the reserve chutes according to Tom Kaye's measurements.  This length of lines could wrap around the bill bag more than 25 times.  So Cooper could have tied that bundle of bills into a very secure package as well as attach it to himself.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2019, 02:38:29 PM by Robert99 »
 

Offline EU

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5120 on: November 12, 2019, 03:13:41 PM »
The ransom measured 11" X 12" X 6.5". This equals 858 cubic inches as a block. Obviously, freely tossed in a bag the volume will be greater even though the shape may be somewhat more rounded--which is more efficient.

I spoke with a long-time bank bag company that has been in the business for 125 years making bank bags. They're actually sending me a Size H bag which is 28" X 14". Also, he is sending me a lead seal. These bags were sealed with a piece of twine throttling the neck of the bag and sealed with a crimped lead seal.. The FBI files describe the cash arriving at SeaTac, the seal being broken and the cash verified, then the cash being sent to DBC.
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Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5121 on: November 12, 2019, 03:28:45 PM »
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The ransom measured 11" X 12" X 6.5". This equals 858 cubic inches as a block. Obviously, freely tossed in a bag the volume will be greater even though the shape may be somewhat more rounded--which is more efficient.

I spoke with a long-time bank bag company that has been in the business for 125 years making bank bags. They're actually sending me a Size H bag which is 28" X 14". Also, he is sending me a lead seal. These bags were sealed with a piece of twine throttling the neck of the bag and sealed with a crimped lead seal.. The FBI files describe the cash arriving at SeaTac, the seal being broken and the cash verified, then the cash being sent to DBC.

The money was transported from the bank to the NWA Seattle office by a Seattle police detective.  It was almost immediately taken out to the airliner by Al Lee and the detective.  It was not counted after it arrived at SEATAC.
 

Offline EU

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5122 on: November 12, 2019, 03:38:19 PM »
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The money was transported from the bank to the NWA Seattle office by a Seattle police detective.  It was almost immediately taken out to the airliner by Al Lee and the detective.  It was not counted after it arrived at SEATAC.

The cash was delivered to SeaTac by two security officials with SeaFirst Bank via an unmarked police car. When they arrived the white bank bag was removed from a large leather satchel. The seal was broken off the white bag and the contents of the white bag were viewed in a cursory manner to verify it contained cash. It was then handed off to Al Lee who later handed the money off to Tina.
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Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5123 on: November 12, 2019, 03:57:02 PM »
Eric is correct.  In fact, I believe we've seen the reports from the NWO employee at the freight desk who inspected the money. Not sure what his name is - but we discussed his perspective here a couple of years ago, if I remember correctly.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5124 on: November 12, 2019, 05:50:39 PM »
I posted the money arrival several days ago..
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5125 on: November 13, 2019, 12:25:18 AM »
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I posted the money arrival several days ago..

Shutter's first post is where I got the dimensions for the money bag that was used in the above calculations.  As I remember the previous information about this specific event, most of which is verified by Shutter's post, the police detective was the driver of the NWA vehicle in which he and Al Lee transported the money plus the four parachutes out to the aircraft almost immediately after the money arrived at the NWA facility.  It was not counted by NWA personnel.

The last two of the four parachutes, the reserves, had arrived at the NWA facility just moments before the money did.  This was about 5:15 or a bit later.  The aircraft had just landed and the passengers were still on it.  After Tina got the money and parachutes onboard, the passengers and two of the stews were released and the refueling, with its delaying problems, then began.  The aircraft did not take off until 7:36 PM.

 
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5126 on: November 13, 2019, 12:38:00 AM »
This document too...
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5127 on: November 13, 2019, 12:55:54 AM »
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This document too...

The dimensions given in this document computes at 0.50 cubic feet which is consistent with the previous computations.
 

Offline EU

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5128 on: November 17, 2019, 04:51:55 PM »
Is anyone aware of info regarding the 100 packets of cash handed over to DBC inasmuch as the top serial number and bottom serial number for each of the packets are available?

I have seen such a list for the packets of twenties totaling 30k from the SeaFirst set-aside money that was not delivered to DBC. Unaware of such a list for the packets that were delivered to DBC.
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Offline EU

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5129 on: November 18, 2019, 12:58:17 PM »
I have two pictures of the white canvas bank bag Size H with lead seal that I received from a long-time bank bag manufacturer. The DBC money likely showed up in a bag that looked exactly like this--minus the lead seal which was cut-off immediately before the bag was handed off to DBC.

I'll be packing this bag with $200,000 in fake cash at CooperCon to give people an idea of what the ransom actually looked like.

The pics may be seen at You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

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