Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
4 (10.3%)
25% Cooper lived
2 (5.1%)
35% Cooper lived.
1 (2.6%)
50% Cooper lived
9 (23.1%)
75% Cooper lived
8 (20.5%)
100 Cooper lived
15 (38.5%)

Total Members Voted: 34

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 302346 times)

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4830 on: July 15, 2019, 02:05:41 PM »
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Apparently the dogs ate the crew meals in Reno, but I'm not sure where I read that. :D

Comes from Gray and Smith repeats it -
[/quote]

Actually, I wrote it. I got it straight from Rataczak.
[/quote]

Maybe Gray got it from you but I doubt it - Gray interviewed several Reno agents. He called me about Kaye matters and told me what he had been doing.... interviewing Reno agents. He said the dogs had made a real mess on the plane, ... I forget the year. He said there was food missing from the galley. I asked: "Cooper took food"? He said, "They dont know for sure...".   

Apparently the dogs were sent on the plane without being on leashes. Free to run free! And they did a lot of damage.   
« Last Edit: July 15, 2019, 02:14:04 PM by georger »
 

Offline haggarknew

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4831 on: July 16, 2019, 01:38:05 AM »
As per last post....I find the story of the dogs fascinating. Sounds to me like L.E. thought there was a real possibility D.B. was still on the plane. Would this have been a standard practice (as far as turning the dogs loose with no leashes)or was it because it they thought he was still there and possibly armed? How many dogs were involved? It seems odd that they would let the dogs run wild thru an unprocessed crime scene. I am thinking that they must have been attack dogs. If they were dogs looking for a scent (trained scent dogs) I have doubts they would have ate food while working a scent.  Whether they were attack dogs or scent dogs,I still find it rather odd that they would be sent into the plane unleashed.     
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4832 on: July 16, 2019, 04:10:26 AM »
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As per last post....I find the story of the dogs fascinating. Sounds to me like L.E. thought there was a real possibility D.B. was still on the plane. Would this have been a standard practice (as far as turning the dogs loose with no leashes)or was it because it they thought he was still there and possibly armed? How many dogs were involved? It seems odd that they would let the dogs run wild thru an unprocessed crime scene. I am thinking that they must have been attack dogs. If they were dogs looking for a scent (trained scent dogs) I have doubts they would have ate food while working a scent.  Whether they were attack dogs or scent dogs,I still find it rather odd that they would be sent into the plane unleashed.   

Maybe Smith knows more?  But it does sound like they sent the dogs on in case Cooper was there to pose a threat.
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4833 on: July 17, 2019, 03:31:40 AM »
As I recall, Bill indicated there were two dogs. He seemed bemused that they ate the food before doing any other sniffing work.
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4834 on: July 17, 2019, 01:47:46 PM »
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As I recall, Bill indicated there were two dogs. He seemed bemused that they ate the food before doing any other sniffing work.

BR is a bemusement!

There is either a large untold part of the Cooper story that BR is not telling, or BR was a raving idiot during and after the hijacking!  He is the textbook definition of inconsistency and blithering idiocy, while also participating in the minutia of a hijacking in progress, ... then he emerges knowing damned near nothing! He says he doesn't even know if Cooper was on the plane or not! In addition to not knowing what planet he was on or what day of the week it was!

I wonder if the FAA considered suspending him for a while, to let him cool off and dry out, and come back to Earth!?
« Last Edit: July 17, 2019, 02:27:41 PM by georger »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4835 on: July 19, 2019, 08:27:19 PM »
Billy was quite cogent when I spoke with him. That said, I do agree that most of his memories of Norjak these days are inconsistent.

To me, I believe he is withholding some important information for some reason, and his cover stories get a little sloppy. Like the whole "we were over the Washougal" thingy. His close relationship with Himmelsbach gives me pause, too.
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4836 on: July 20, 2019, 01:01:49 AM »
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Billy was quite cogent when I spoke with him. That said, I do agree that most of his memories of Norjak these days are inconsistent.

To me, I believe he is withholding some important information for some reason, and his cover stories get a little sloppy. Like the whole "we were over the Washougal" thingy. His close relationship with Himmelsbach gives me pause, too.

Nobody, has the intense detailed relationship with the hijacker this crew had up to 7:54 followed by

7:54:30:   'Roger. Miss Mucklow said he apparently has the knapsack around him and thinks he will attempt a jump. 
MSP:      Roger. After leaving this freq go to 131.8 we have direct phone patch there (to Company)',

then by 8:15-20 until they land at Reno, doesn't even know if the hijacker is still on the plane or not!

BR can claim that if he wants.  He can also claim he is the King of England!      :rofl:

« Last Edit: July 20, 2019, 01:28:21 AM by georger »
 

Offline haggarknew

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4837 on: July 20, 2019, 05:45:21 AM »
What if he is telling the truth about the dogs eating the food first? I am not accusing anyone of lieing . In fact Hager believed that to be true. He told me they were a couple of younger dogs who weren't fully trained yet. He had some connection to the dogs. I can't remember all of the details. I think it might have been thru the parents of one of the dogs. Maybe the connection was thru a sibling of the dogs, I honestly don't remember. He never met the dogs personally but due to his connection he SPECULATED their ages to be kind of young (also inexperienced) for an attack dog. Hager found it odd they would turn a young, inexperienced, and probably over aggressive dog, loose on the plane. Where were all the flight crew and other people ( L.E. and such ) while the dogs were on the plane?
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4838 on: July 20, 2019, 03:49:53 PM »
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What if he is telling the truth about the dogs eating the food first? I am not accusing anyone of lieing . In fact Hager believed that to be true. He told me they were a couple of younger dogs who weren't fully trained yet. He had some connection to the dogs. I can't remember all of the details. I think it might have been thru the parents of one of the dogs. Maybe the connection was thru a sibling of the dogs, I honestly don't remember. He never met the dogs personally but due to his connection he SPECULATED their ages to be kind of young (also inexperienced) for an attack dog. Hager found it odd they would turn a young, inexperienced, and probably over aggressive dog, loose on the plane. Where were all the flight crew and other people ( L.E. and such ) while the dogs were on the plane?

Crew had departed the plane, of course. Any idea that Cooper was still on the plane - was patently nuts! The crew had already reported Cooper gone clear back at 8:15-20 after reporting about 7:41 'he intends to jump soon'. So the Transcript is not only missing vital comms that occurred, this nonsense about him possibly still being on the plane is a ruse intended for public consumption ... and the Walter Cronkite bubble gum report!

The company con to cover the hijacker's con had already started!

Who were they trying to con and why? Maybe the Titanic is still out there cruising around somewhere -= lost! With the information being kept private by - The Company! ?   

 :rofl:

 
« Last Edit: July 20, 2019, 05:10:44 PM by georger »
 
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Offline haggarknew

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4839 on: July 21, 2019, 06:23:41 AM »
Were the dogs from L.E. or from the military?
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4840 on: July 21, 2019, 10:59:55 AM »
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Were the dogs from L.E. or from the military?

Isn't there a picture of the National Guard or military at the bottom of the stairs with a dog?
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4841 on: July 21, 2019, 03:49:18 PM »
My understanding of events in Reno is that FBI SAC Red Campbell entered the plane first by the stairs. Once he ascertained Coop was gone, then the crew left. Then Campbell's team of three other agents boarded. After that, I don't know.

This scenario suggests that Rataczak left he airplane before the dogs went aboard.

Also, Tina's statements on the History Channel docu, if I recall accurately, suggests that she left the plane alone, and then stood by herself on the tarmac for several minutes - by one of the runway lights, "as I had been instructed in our training." So where was the FBI, Rataczak, Scotty, Anderson???

Calame and Rhodes clearly show how confusing this all was in their book: DB Cooper - The Real McCoy.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2019, 04:00:22 PM by Bruce A. Smith »
 
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4842 on: July 21, 2019, 04:00:08 PM »
Here is the photo I was talking about. looking now, it appears to be a state patrol officer with the dog...
 
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Offline Lynn

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4843 on: July 21, 2019, 04:22:33 PM »
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Here is the photo I was talking about. looking now, it appears to be a state patrol officer with the dog...
Good catch. Definitely a dog.
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4844 on: July 21, 2019, 05:41:31 PM »
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My understanding of events in Reno is that FBI SAC Red Campbell entered the plane first by the stairs. Once he ascertained Coop was gone, then the crew left. Then Campbell's team of three other agents boarded. After that, I don't know.

This scenario suggests that Rataczak left he airplane before the dogs went aboard.

Also, Tina's statements on the History Channel docu, if I recall accurately, suggests that she left the plane alone, and then stood by herself on the tarmac for several minutes - by one of the runway lights, "as I had been instructed in our training." So where was the FBI, Rataczak, Scotty, Anderson???

Calame and Rhodes clearly show how confusing this all was in their book: DB Cooper - The Real McCoy.

I believe the statement from Scott is that the crew left first after telling people by radio that they were going to do so and where they would be standing with respect to the aircraft.