Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
6 (9.5%)
25% Cooper lived
4 (6.3%)
35% Cooper lived.
2 (3.2%)
50% Cooper lived
14 (22.2%)
75% Cooper lived
14 (22.2%)
100 Cooper lived
23 (36.5%)

Total Members Voted: 58

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 1407030 times)

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4725 on: March 10, 2019, 10:54:06 PM »
Quote
I hope that Shutter opens up a new thread for Unrequited Love and Love Triangles in the Cooper Vortex.

That topic is better fit for the Mountain News.
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4726 on: March 11, 2019, 02:07:44 AM »
Well, if you really think so, Shut... sigh....
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4727 on: March 11, 2019, 03:10:41 PM »
FLYJACK says:
March 11, 2019 at 10:11 am
Was there a beeper planted by the FBI?
They don’t admit there was one used but the FBI files document a report of a very faint beeper signal picked up about 40 hours later just upstream of TBAR.

Can anyone produce the FOIA document (302) FLYJACK is talking about? 

40 hours later... later than what ?  When?   

« Last Edit: March 11, 2019, 03:13:10 PM by georger »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4728 on: March 11, 2019, 06:43:33 PM »
I recall a document speaking of a faint signal but not around T-Bar and not a signal used for chutes. If not mistaken they even give the model of the emergency beacon. I have no idea where it is in the 302's. 377 chimed in on the conversation. must of been over a year ago..

I believe the 302 was making it sound like it was possible he used it as a jump point but they ruled it out if I am correct. it's been a while since I read the document.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4729 on: March 11, 2019, 08:40:42 PM »
The signal tone was coming from Evergreen field north of Government island miles away from Tbar. it was on frequency 243.0 which is a emergency broadcast freq. it moved to Reynolds Aluminum plant west of Vancouver before fading out. this was on 12/26/71 at 3:30

any type of tracking device in the chutes go off when deployed. I don't think they start until deployed.
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4730 on: March 11, 2019, 11:44:16 PM »
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The signal tone was coming from Evergreen field north of Government island miles away from Tbar. it was on frequency 243.0 which is a emergency broadcast freq. it moved to Reynolds Aluminum plant west of Vancouver before fading out. this was on 12/26/71 at 3:30

any type of tracking device in the chutes go off when deployed. I don't think they start until deployed.

Could be a coincidence or some kid in a jeep testing a piece of surplus gear?  ;) Nowhere in the 302 posted today does it say anyone had placed a tracker in any of the chutes? Maj Dawson said he wanted to put trackers in military chutes but of course that was vetoed and the military never supplied any of the chutes. Here's the 302 text below, as copied from another site.

7:25PM URGENT 11/26/71 TLA
TO: – SEATTLE (C164 – 81)
FROt-1: PORTLA ND ( 164-41)
UNlSUB; HIJACKING OF NORTHWEST ORIENT AIRLINES FLIGHT THREE
ZERO FiVE, ELEVEN TWENTTYFOUR SEVENTYONE:” CAA -HIJACKING; EXTORTION
00: SEATTLE.
________________ OREGON AIR NATIONAL GUARD,
ADVISED THAT AT APPROXIMATELY THREE THIRTY P.M. TODAY AS HE WAS
MAKING APPROACH TO PORTLAND INTERNATIONAL AiRPORT IN F-ONE ZERO
ONE FIGHTER: HEARD A FAINT RADIO TONE SIGNAL BEING BROADCAST
ON TWO FOUR THREE POINT ZERO MC. A FREQUENCY RESERVED FOR EMERGENCY AIRCRAFT RADIO TRANSMISSIONS. SIGNAL FIRST HEARD NEAR EVERGREEN AIRPORT, JUST EAST OF VANCOUVER, WASHINGTON, THEN HEARD SECOND TIME NEAR REYNOLDS ALUMINUM PLANT WEST OF VANCOUVER. SIGNAL HEARD FOR APPROXIMATELY FIVE MINUTES, DURING WHICH TIME __________ ATTEMPTED TO OBTAIN RADIO FIX ON AUTOMATIC DIRECTION FINDER EQUIPMENT WITHOUT SUCCESS AS SIGNAL FADED OUT. SIGNAL WAS OF
END OF PAGE ONE
TYPE TRANSMITTED BY EMERGENCY LOCATED BEACONS CARRIED BY GENERAL AVIATION AND MILITARY AIRCRAFT. NO SUCH BEACONS KNOWN TO HAVE BEEN IN OPERATION, EITHER ACCIDENTALLY OR FOR TEST PURPOSES, AT TIME. FOR INFORMATION.
END
HANDWRITTEN NOTE “MANNING HANDLING”
 
« Last Edit: March 11, 2019, 11:49:38 PM by georger »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4731 on: March 11, 2019, 11:51:02 PM »
he brought up the document just as I did a year ago. what ever it was, was moving but didn't last long. the bottom line is if it was a tracking device from 305 then it would of went off when he left the plane. that's how they work. it wouldn't start two days later. it's activated by pressure/altitude or the cord...it would of exposed him way before Evergreen. it has a short life with the battery. I don't know how easy they were to get in that period. 243.0 is a military emergency frequency. it's not a toy.
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4732 on: March 11, 2019, 11:54:21 PM »
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he brought up the document just as I did a year ago. what ever it was, was moving but didn't last long. the bottom line is if it was a tracking device from 305 then it would of went off when he left the plane. that's how they work. it wouldn't start two days later. it's activated by pressure/altitude or the cord...it would of exposed him way before Evergreen. it has a short life with the battery. I don't know how easy they were to get in that period. 243.0 is a military emergency frequency. it's not a toy.

From the report you could almost calculate rate of travel in mph? Was the signal airborne, on the ground following roads, moving at walking or running speed .. ?   Whats the distance covered over the time period noted?
« Last Edit: March 11, 2019, 11:57:15 PM by georger »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4733 on: March 11, 2019, 11:59:45 PM »
no way of telling since they couldn't track the signal in time..it's not specific enough to get a speed or direction other than the two locations mentioned. you don't want to get caught playing around on military freqs. they do it though. just like hackers. you have a massive amount of aircraft in that area, along with airports. could of been anything..but doubtful it came from 305. it would of went off prior to picking up the signal two days later.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4734 on: March 12, 2019, 12:01:54 AM »
You need a directional antenna to find the signal. I don't know if they could track it by altitude. perhaps today, but back then I think it was just a matter of signal strength. we use to do it with CB's years ago.
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4735 on: March 12, 2019, 12:07:05 AM »
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no way of telling since they couldn't track the signal in time..it's not specific enough to get a speed or direction other than the two locations mentioned. you don't want to get caught playing around on military freqs. they do it though. just like hackers. you have a massive amount of aircraft in that area, along with airports. could of been anything..but doubtful it came from 305. it would of went off prior to picking up the signal two days later.

Well the date is "7:25PM URGENT 11/26/71 TLA - URGENT." and the message is "OREGON AIR NATIONAL GUARD, ADVISED THAT AT APPROXIMATELY THREE THIRTY P.M. TODAY"   so this was not on 11/24 or 11/25, but on 11/26 at "3:30OM TODAY"  so this is two days after the hijacking and the jump ? 
« Last Edit: March 12, 2019, 12:07:39 AM by georger »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4736 on: March 12, 2019, 12:08:04 AM »
11/26/71
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4737 on: March 12, 2019, 12:11:58 AM »
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11/26/71

?  The hijacking and jump were on Wednesday, November 24, 1971.  11/26 is two days later? So is Cooper now running around two days later with the parachute-pinger going off on his back? Or in the money bag?  Or parachute and pinger being transported on the 26th to somewhere ?
« Last Edit: March 12, 2019, 12:13:10 AM by georger »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4738 on: March 12, 2019, 12:14:24 AM »
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11/26/71

?  The hijacking and jump were on Wednesday, November 24, 1971.  11/26 is two days later? So is Cooper now running around two days later with the parachute-pinger going off on his back? Or in the money bag?

It's not logical anyway you look at it. even if he found them they would of went off when he left the plane and they would of had him. he couldn't of kept it because it would of been alerting them from the second he left the plane. I believe the FBI realized this and let it go....
« Last Edit: March 12, 2019, 12:15:16 AM by Shutter »
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4739 on: March 12, 2019, 12:27:27 AM »
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11/26/71

?  The hijacking and jump were on Wednesday, November 24, 1971.  11/26 is two days later? So is Cooper now running around two days later with the parachute-pinger going off on his back? Or in the money bag?

It's not logical anyway you look at it. even if he found them they would of went off when he left the plane and they would of had him. he couldn't of kept it because it would of been alerting them from the second he left the plane. I believe the FBI realized this and let it go....

oh well ... connection was lost so reply didnt go ...

I do kind of see Fkyjack's point. What's the concern over a pinger going off two days after the hijacking if no pinger was involved in the case? Portland fires an URGENT message to Seattle over it. Did Seattle reply to Portland: URGENT - WHAT PINGER?  THERE WERE NO PINGERS IN THE CHUTES OR WITH THE MONEY!
« Last Edit: March 12, 2019, 12:30:30 AM by georger »