Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
4 (10.3%)
25% Cooper lived
2 (5.1%)
35% Cooper lived.
1 (2.6%)
50% Cooper lived
9 (23.1%)
75% Cooper lived
8 (20.5%)
100 Cooper lived
15 (38.5%)

Total Members Voted: 34

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 256636 times)

Offline Unsurelock

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 239
  • Thanked: 19 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4560 on: December 23, 2018, 08:23:57 PM »
Cooper Did Not Work on the SST

Another "interesting particle" found on the Norjack Tie is Cadmium. While 86% of this element today goes into making batteries, during WWII it was used on flatware, as cadmium plating prevented rust. Too bad it was poisonous.

Still, it was useful as it protected metals against the elements. It was used to plate patio furniture, trailer hitches, all types of hardware, fishing reels, you name it. It was also used to plate wrenches, ratchets and entire tool kits available at most hardware stores.

And since titanium was rare, it didn't bother Joe Shmoe that his tools would leave a corrosive residue on his home improvement projects. It didn't affect steel or aluminum, just titanium.

See, before the SST project (the Boeing 2707), they had a spy plane called the A-12, later the Blackbird. They noticed a weird phenomenon happening only in summer - a spot weld would fail in 6 weeks. But a spot weld made in Winter would not. As it turns out, the local water was chlorinated in summer, and the chlorine corroded the titanium.

Then another weird thing started to happen.  Bolt heads started to inexplicably drop off in high heat. It was found that mechanics using cadmium-plated tools were leaving a residue of the metal on the bolts, and the cadmium was trashing the titanium.

After that, they made a clean sweep of the site and removed all cadmium tools from all tool boxes. (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login)

As the SST was going to have a titanium fuselage, there would be no cadmium in that work environment, or likely any part of the plane.

So either he picked up the cadmium elsewhere, like on his patio furniture, and here's where some of us start admitting that these particles are not just from smoking and working, or he didn't work on the SST.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2018, 11:44:48 PM by Unsurelock »
 

Offline nickyb233

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 72
  • Thanked: 2 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4561 on: December 26, 2018, 03:48:40 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Cooper Did Not Work on the SST

Another "interesting particle" found on the Norjack Tie is Cadmium. While 86% of this element today goes into making batteries, during WWII it was used on flatware, as cadmium plating prevented rust. Too bad it was poisonous.

Still, it was useful as it protected metals against the elements. It was used to plate patio furniture, trailer hitches, all types of hardware, fishing reels, you name it. It was also used to plate wrenches, ratchets and entire tool kits available at most hardware stores.

And since titanium was rare, it didn't bother Joe Shmoe that his tools would leave a corrosive residue on his home improvement projects. It didn't affect steel or aluminum, just titanium.

See, before the SST project (the Boeing 2707), they had a spy plane called the A-12, later the Blackbird. They noticed a weird phenomenon happening only in summer - a spot weld would fail in 6 weeks. But a spot weld made in Winter would not. As it turns out, the local water was chlorinated in summer, and the chlorine corroded the titanium.

Then another weird thing started to happen.  Bolt heads started to inexplicably drop off in high heat. It was found that mechanics using cadmium-plated tools were leaving a residue of the metal on the bolts, and the cadmium was trashing the titanium.

After that, they made a clean sweep of the site and removed all cadmium tools from all tool boxes. (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login)

As the SST was going to have a titanium fuselage, there would be no cadmium in that work environment, or likely any part of the plane.

So either he picked up the cadmium elsewhere, like on his patio furniture, and here's where some of us start admitting that these particles are not just from smoking and working, or he didn't work on the SST.

Compounds containing cadmium are used in black and white television phosphors, and in the blue and green phosphors for color television picture tubes. Cadmium sulfide is used as a yellow pigment, and cadmium selenide is used as a red pigment, often called cadmium red.

Many were surprised when Boeing got the SST contract in 1966, Lockheed's experience with high-speed flight had made them the front-runner in many people's opinion, and their delta L2000 design looked less risky, even allowing for the Mach 2.7 speed.

They were proved right, the VG 2707 proved an impractical design, the weight of the huge swing-wing mechanism was excessive, and early tests with models indicated the wings would need strengthening.

The second 2707 VG design moved the huge GE4 turbojets to the massive horizontal stabiliser, a bitter Lockheed engineer commented 'I guess they had to put 'em there to prevent them from burning the tail off!'

With the swing wings, the complex triple slotted trailing-edge flaps, leading edge flaps, all the other flight controls plus the complex droop nose, the 2707 had 59 moving surfaces, concerning to some potential pilots.

In 1969, Boeing changed the 2707 design to the -300 tailed delta. Much more conventional, but the Mach 2.7 speed required extensive use of titainium, and those GE4's, each with some 60,000lbs of reheated thrust, would have been much noisier then even Concorde's engines.

As we all know, aircraft noise and pollution had become serious issues by 1970, the 2707 had enemies, though some were more concerned with 90% of the 2707 development coming from tax $. Must have been quite a sight to see right-wing republicans allied with enviromentalists!

Finally, in March 1971, Congress voted by a majority of one to stop funding 2707 development, the wrong-headed initial designs had lost too much time and money.

Lockheed's design probably would have flown, though whether it would ever had entered service is another matter, the Boeing SST, though much bigger than Concorde, (230 pax), had about the same range.  I think the L2000 would have been similar.
 
Apart from the remains discussed previously, there was a legacy from the 2707 program still with us, late in the project, Boeing were looking at cathode-ray tube displays for the 2707, though a flight engineer would still be required, along with plenty of conventional instruments for the Capt. and F/O.

Here it is mentioned in a 68 flying magazine issue, Boeing Commercial Airplanes starting experimenting with CRT's in 66-67. Coopers model clip on tie stopped being manufactured in 65.  Timeline fits.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
« Last Edit: December 26, 2018, 04:22:33 PM by nickyb233 »
 

Offline andrade1812

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 387
  • Thanked: 25 times
    • My Website
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4562 on: January 07, 2019, 11:38:54 AM »
Where did the Cooper website go? Can't find it off the main forum page...
 

Offline georger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 553
  • Thanked: 59 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4563 on: January 07, 2019, 01:06:56 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Where did the Cooper website go? Can't find it off the main forum page...

? ? ? ? ?
 

Offline andrade1812

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 387
  • Thanked: 25 times
    • My Website
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4564 on: January 07, 2019, 11:14:13 PM »
Never mind, I found a link
 

Offline 377

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1508
  • Thanked: 281 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4565 on: January 08, 2019, 01:02:39 PM »
Military (and some civilian) parachute harness fittings were cadmium plated. Toxic stuff but very good at preventing oxidation of the steel beneath it.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

377



« Last Edit: January 08, 2019, 01:03:10 PM by 377 »
 
The following users thanked this post: nickyb233, georger

Offline Tom Kaye

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 58
  • Thanked: 20 times
Tom Kaye's Tie Talk at Conference
« Reply #4566 on: January 10, 2019, 03:09:56 PM »
Hi Everyone,

The video of my tie talk is now public for those of  you that didn't make the conference. Great editing job by Dirk Wierenga thanks Dirk!
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Tom
 
The following users thanked this post: andrade1812, nickyb233, haggarknew, georger

Offline georger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 553
  • Thanked: 59 times
Re: Tom Kaye's Tie Talk at Conference
« Reply #4567 on: January 10, 2019, 11:55:31 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Hi Everyone,

The video of my tie talk is now public for those of  you that didn't make the conference. Great editing job by Dirk Wierenga thanks Dirk!
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Tom

That was a nice, comprehensive, excellent presentation. Thanks Tom and all. Very thought provoking.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2019, 12:01:21 AM by georger »
 

Offline Tom Kaye

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 58
  • Thanked: 20 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4568 on: January 13, 2019, 10:33:11 PM »

Days with no posts on the forum,what is going on?

Tom
 
The following users thanked this post: georger

Offline andrade1812

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 387
  • Thanked: 25 times
    • My Website
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4569 on: January 13, 2019, 10:36:01 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Days with no posts on the forum,what is going on?

Tom

Well... now that you're here again... we'll find something... ;)
 

Offline georger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 553
  • Thanked: 59 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4570 on: January 13, 2019, 11:19:16 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Days with no posts on the forum,what is going on?

Tom

Well... now that you're here again... we'll find something... ;)

There are two or three new members - who havent said a word? There are always a number of guests here reading the forum ?
 

Offline georger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 553
  • Thanked: 59 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4571 on: January 14, 2019, 02:54:35 PM »
Evidence

"I think Tosaw and Rat met at some point in the 1980's and Rat made some best assessments to Tosaw about the air route.  Otherwise, I have no idea why Richard left money for Rat in Tosaw's will.  My inclination is that between Janet's story, Rat's recollection, Anderson's data, and the money find at Tina's Bar, Tosaw believed these facts merged and he could locate Cooper's remains in the Columbia River near Tina's Bar.  I even met with Tosaw on his two expeditions in 2005, and 2008.  Nothing. They just didn't find anything of value where they looked. 

This new place identified is very interesting. I have no idea why Richard didn't check it out.

Keep me updated when you get the files. I am very anxious to read those early crew interviews, when things were still fresh on their minds."

 vote the smileycode and safe
« Last Edit: January 14, 2019, 03:09:38 PM by georger »
 

Offline Unsurelock

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 239
  • Thanked: 19 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4572 on: January 14, 2019, 04:33:05 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Military (and some civilian) parachute harness fittings were cadmium plated. Toxic stuff but very good at preventing oxidation of the steel beneath it.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

377

377, I think the only mention of Cadmium I had found on this forum while reading up was a post you made on fittings. Not much opportunity for transfer unless the tie tack scraped the fittings and deposited it on the cloth.
 

Offline Unsurelock

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 239
  • Thanked: 19 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4573 on: January 15, 2019, 12:40:09 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Military (and some civilian) parachute harness fittings were cadmium plated. Toxic stuff but very good at preventing oxidation of the steel beneath it.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

377

377, I think the only mention of Cadmium I had found on this forum while reading up was a post you made on fittings. Not much opportunity for transfer unless the tie tack scraped the fittings and deposited it on the cloth.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login   Here is Tom's latest presentation.

R99 wrote and applauds Tom's new presentation!

Already watched it, after Tom posted it. Something more to add?
 

Offline georger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 553
  • Thanked: 59 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4574 on: January 15, 2019, 02:32:21 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Military (and some civilian) parachute harness fittings were cadmium plated. Toxic stuff but very good at preventing oxidation of the steel beneath it.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

377

377, I think the only mention of Cadmium I had found on this forum while reading up was a post you made on fittings. Not much opportunity for transfer unless the tie tack scraped the fittings and deposited it on the cloth.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login   Here is Tom's latest presentation.

R99 wrote and applauds Tom's new presentation!

Already watched it, after Tom posted it. Something more to add?

Im sorry - I didnt mean to upset you. I was posting for other readers who read this forum also. I will remove it!

Maybe you can explain to the rest of us (and Tom) what the significance of cadmium on the tie is? 
« Last Edit: January 15, 2019, 02:38:31 AM by georger »