Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
5 (11.9%)
25% Cooper lived
2 (4.8%)
35% Cooper lived.
1 (2.4%)
50% Cooper lived
10 (23.8%)
75% Cooper lived
8 (19%)
100 Cooper lived
16 (38.1%)

Total Members Voted: 37

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 347263 times)

Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4380 on: November 27, 2018, 02:29:13 PM »
Flyjack, I tried to figure out why I said that but couldn't. Something to keep looking for.

There's a link to the story of the teacher in Oklahoma who was selling a Cooper bill on ebay around the time of the Ingram auction.

It was possible the info came from that story but maybe not. It sounds like something I would have read in a newspaper? I was trying to see if Ckret might have said that but I don't think so. Looking at some dz.com posts, there seems to be statements that the rubber bands were around each bundle..which is odd..not one set of rubber bands around a 3 bundles. If rubber bands were around individual bundles of approx 100 bills, that's pretty odd to me. Because it doesn't make sense with the various "bank bands" memos.

The ebay bill story:

The Ingrams had moved back to Oklahoma. I researched that and it appeared to be true.

The story was something like this (the ebay link is no longer valid)
FBI agent's son (retired teacher) buying an Ingram bill 20 years ago from the Ingram family, for his father, who is now dead. 
The teacher had Brian's younger brother in class

The bill was apparently authenticated by PCGS
Whatever bill that is, it'd be nice to know. It has a more interesting story behind it for collectors..or the Singaporan syndicate I'm in contact with for the Cooper bill pump and dump operation.

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Snowmman,

Do you happen to recall where this came from? One of your posts on DZ..

"They said only one bundle was missing rubber bands"

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Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4381 on: November 27, 2018, 02:45:04 PM »
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Flyjack, I tried to figure out why I said that but couldn't. Something to keep looking for.

There's a link to the story of the teacher in Oklahoma who was selling a Cooper bill on ebay around the time of the Ingram auction.

It was possible the info came from that story but maybe not. It sounds like something I would have read in a newspaper? I was trying to see if Ckret might have said that but I don't think so. Looking at some dz.com posts, there seems to be statements that the rubber bands were around each bundle..which is odd..not one set of rubber bands around a 3 bundles. If rubber bands were around individual bundles of approx 100 bills, that's pretty odd to me. Because it doesn't make sense with the various "bank bands" memos.

The ebay bill story:

The Ingrams had moved back to Oklahoma. I researched that and it appeared to be true.

The story was something like this (the ebay link is no longer valid)
FBI agent's son (retired teacher) buying an Ingram bill 20 years ago from the Ingram family, for his father, who is now dead. 
The teacher had Brian's younger brother in class

The bill was apparently authenticated by PCGS
Whatever bill that is, it'd be nice to know. It has a more interesting story behind it for collectors..or the Singaporan syndicate I'm in contact with for the Cooper bill pump and dump operation.

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Snowmman,

Do you happen to recall where this came from? One of your posts on DZ..

"They said only one bundle was missing rubber bands"

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List the years of all of this@!

Some guy in Oklahoma has a Cooper bill to sell - when? What year?

[I could ave bought all of Ingram's Cooper bills and folders but didnt!] I declined even pursuing it to avoid a messy transaction with the Ingrams. Nothing transacted with the Ingrams is ever simple or straightforward!   

When did the guy in OK get a Cooper bill from the Ingrams?

Is the bill the OK guy has an 'accounted for bill' Brian was awarded by the Court?  ::)

You are aware? that the Ingrams held bills back for themselves 'as souvenirs' in their original transaction with H and the FBI?

 
« Last Edit: November 27, 2018, 02:50:05 PM by georger »
 

Offline 377

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4382 on: November 27, 2018, 02:49:59 PM »
My Cooper twenty is now in TK's hands for inspection and analysis. Let's see what he and Al find. Maybe nothing, but who else but a Vortex dweller would permit them to snip a tiny portion for destructive testing?

In fairness, I'll also offer it to Snow when TK's team is finished. Snow has connections at the very highest levels of Russian science. He already has them working diligently on the T Bar cattle "surgery".

377
 
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Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4383 on: November 27, 2018, 02:51:14 PM »
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My Cooper twenty is now in TK's hands for inspection and analysis. Let's see what he and Al find. Maybe nothing, but who else but a Vortex dweller would permit them to snip a tiny portion for destructive testing?

In fairness, I'll also offer it to Snow when TK's team is finished. Snow has connections at the very highest levels of Russian science. He already has them working diligently on the T Bar cattle "surgery".

377

 ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) Rolls eyes!   

Everyone else should just retire and let you and whoever run the case!  But Blevins might sue you !    >:D

You need a new wing on the Cooper Country Club!  :rofl:   And a shrine with locked door somewhere behind the kitchen! This is worse than the Shriner's!  Is there a White Shrine Carol and the women could join?
« Last Edit: November 27, 2018, 02:56:30 PM by georger »
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4384 on: November 27, 2018, 03:13:51 PM »
Georger,
I posted the story in 2008, so the ebay sale must have been around then.
20 years before that would have been around 1988.

Brian went back to Sallisaw to go to high school, after they left WA. Attended high school in Sallisaw 1986-1990

It was Sallisaw, OK
« Last Edit: November 27, 2018, 03:20:39 PM by snowmman »
 

Offline 377

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4385 on: November 27, 2018, 04:16:07 PM »
"Brian went back to Sallisaw...'

Obviously, a code relating to Sailshaw. Get the cipher boys on this immediately Snow.

377
 

Offline 377

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4386 on: November 27, 2018, 04:21:56 PM »
Georger wrote: "You need a new wing on the Cooper Country Club!"

Actually, I'm not a country club squire type Georger. I don't golf, don't play polo, have never dated a debutant and don't drink enough to fit in.

I'd rather hang with the misfits at the DZ. I feel a certain kinship after half a century in their midst.

377
« Last Edit: November 27, 2018, 04:23:31 PM by 377 »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4387 on: November 27, 2018, 07:03:35 PM »
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My Cooper twenty is now in TK's hands for inspection and analysis. Let's see what he and Al find. Maybe nothing, but who else but a Vortex dweller would permit them to snip a tiny portion for destructive testing?

In fairness, I'll also offer it to Snow when TK's team is finished. Snow has connections at the very highest levels of Russian science. He already has them working diligently on the T Bar cattle "surgery".

377

377, can you find out if they also do dental work? I need a couple of crowns and I didn't sell that many books...
 

FLYJACK

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4388 on: November 27, 2018, 08:12:37 PM »
Found something very interesting...

Apparently silver nitrate was sprayed on "stolen" money to mark it... it would turn black as well as the hands of anyone who touched it.

And Brian said some of the bills he found WERE DARKENED.

Maybe there was no report of silver nitrate used for fingerprints because it wasn't. Some bills were possibly sprayed with silver nitrate to mark it. If so, maybe that is why those packets were discarded...
« Last Edit: November 27, 2018, 08:17:18 PM by FLYJACK »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4389 on: November 28, 2018, 01:24:10 AM »
Interesting. I'm gonna call Brian.
 

FLYJACK

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4390 on: November 28, 2018, 08:34:26 AM »
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Interesting. I'm gonna call Brian.

Silver Nitrate was the precursor to exploding dye packs.

Bruce,

If you do talk to Brian ask him if he can recall the exact location of the rubber band fragments.. and if they all fell of (crumbled) immediately when pulled from the sand or later.

Were they on all three packets or some of the packets, tops or bottoms of each or some?

Try to determine if each packet was individually banded or all three were banded as one bundle.. though he may not remember.

There wouldn't have been rubber bands on/around the sides of the packets, just attached to tops/bottoms. If the middle packet didn't have frags that indicates rubber bands around all three as a bundle.


Pringle - money from "One bundle"  :-\

"There is certain information known only to us and the hijacker."
« Last Edit: November 28, 2018, 09:48:17 AM by FLYJACK »
 

FLYJACK

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4391 on: November 28, 2018, 09:59:30 AM »
Here it is...

Tom Kaye assumed the Silver Nitrate application was FBI fingerprint checking post TBAR find. It was never substantiated. Pre- Spraying/Marking ransom money with Silver Nitrate would be info held back by FBI, post fingerprint analysis is not.

"Immediately apparent on the blackened bills was a rainbow iridescence as shown in Figure 3. This signaled that there was likely a molecular layer on the surface causing light refraction.  Subsequent examination under EDS showed that the black Fig 3 Rainbow iridescence on the black bills signalled a refractive molecular layer present on the surface.coating was due to a silver on the bills surface. Several potential natural sources for the silver coating were examined, but in casual conversation, a law enforcement officer mentioned that silver nitrate that was used in the early 70's to detect fingerprints. This treatment had the negative side effect of eventually turning the evidence black. Commercially available nitrate test strips were employed and the results were clearly positive. Further examination of the news photos from 1971 did not show any black bills. Although there was no record of any testing done on the bills prior to this analysis, the data indicates the blackened bills were checked for fingerprints using silver nitrate at some point in the 70's."
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4392 on: November 28, 2018, 10:03:22 AM »
in the original PCGS auction in 2008, they said Ingram had 84 bills
if the insurance company got that many, and the FBI got 14 or so, then that means at least 84+84+14 = 182 bills

so it's at least two bundles?

Now maybe Ingram's bills separated into more, post insurance-split, and maybe the insurance bills didn't split as much.

But there seems to be more than 100 bills? So more than one bundle?

I think there have been around 46 bills or fragments sold by PCGS. I think that is reasonable to assume unique bills, because PCGS took great pains to assemble pieces into a larger bill.
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4393 on: November 28, 2018, 10:06:07 AM »
if silver nitrate was on the bills in 1971, they would have turned black very quickly.

(before 1980)

Are you saying you think there were black bills in 1980?
 

FLYJACK

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4394 on: November 28, 2018, 10:11:05 AM »
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in the original PCGS auction in 2008, they said Ingram had 84 bills
if the insurance company got that many, and the FBI got 14 or so, then that means at least 84+84+14 = 182 bills

so it's at least two bundles?

Now maybe Ingram's bills separated into more, post insurance-split, and maybe the insurance bills didn't split as much.

But there seems to be more than 100 bills? So more than one bundle?

I think there have been around 46 bills or fragments sold by PCGS. I think that is reasonable to assume unique bills, because PCGS took great pains to assemble pieces into a larger bill.

Snow,

The terminology is imprecise.. and used differently.

A "packet" is a group of 100 bills.

A "bundle" is a group of "packets".

Problem arises when people call "packets" bundles as CKRET did..


One bundle may be a group of 3 "packets". TBAR may have been a group of 3 packets which was rubber banded into 1 bundle. If so, that changes how the money could have arrived and ended up "together".

« Last Edit: November 28, 2018, 10:19:50 AM by FLYJACK »