Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case (Read 1401325 times)

snowmman · « **Reply #4365 on:** November 26, 2018, 04:28:13 PM »

re the storage scope patent. Yeah Tektronix engineers had a bunch of them.
I have a list of 40+ CRT engineers at Tektronix in the '60s
But manufacturing was big too.
Was reading details of the 350 laid off..they were in machining and process.

Now is the Phosphor story bullshit or real?

Phosphor compounds weren't random. You didn't sprinkle random combinations.
we need to match what Tom claims is Tektronix phosphor, to the phosphor compounds Tektronix used in the '60s

it's a small set.

The problem is, Tom's thrown out suppositions, without enough information to back up his claims.

snowmman · « **Reply #4366 on:** November 26, 2018, 04:32:36 PM »

Kermit
thanks for the Aurora, OR info.

The FBI apparently did sniff around the Aurora airport...one or two memos where they talked to people there. Apparently no leads.

I'm starting to doubt the idea of a laid-off Tektronix CRT manager getting $200,000 in cash.
How was he going to use that much cash? (launder it?)

It doesn't make sense to me that someone smart enough to design/manufacture/test/recycle CRTs for Tektronix would do something criminal, which even if successful, would be unlikely to result in cash he could use....Unless his plan was to move out of the area and ??

Maybe the tie was bought at a thrift store in Portland, like people have suggested.

snowmman · « **Reply #4367 on:** November 26, 2018, 04:35:25 PM »

Frit comparisons

that Tek patent mentions these frits, probably in use at the time:

A suitable glaze is lead borosilicate glass mixed with a flux. Among examples of various materials which may be used are Harshaw Q-12 glaze, Harshaw No. 83 frit, Corning No. 89 frit, and Corning No. 95 frit.

Harshaw Q-12 glaze,
Harshaw No. 83 frit,
Corning No. 89 frit, and
Corning No. 95 frit.

If Tom was motivated, we could probably get some of these 60s era frits and do comparison to Cooper's tie particles (again, like fingerprint analysis)

snowmman · « **Reply #4368 on:** November 26, 2018, 04:59:36 PM »

Here's an interesting thing:

The use of interesting elements, in ceramic composition of the CRT tubes, to shield Xrays

this was a later patent...but it's interesting that some interesting elements could be mixed in the ceramics when they made ceramic CRT tubes.

X-ray attenuating polycrystalline ceramic materials having at least 20 wt. percent cerium oxide are disclosed. In addition, the materials can include one or more X-ray attenuating substances selected from the group including compounds of strontium, zirconium, yttrium, niobium, molybdenum, neodymium and tungsten. The materials can be formed in strong, non-porous bodies such as cathode ray tube funnels.

Kermit · « **Reply #4369 on:** November 26, 2018, 05:01:23 PM »

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Kermit
thanks for the Aurora, OR info.

The FBI apparently did sniff around the Aurora airport...one or two memos where they talked to people there. Apparently no leads.

I'm starting to doubt the idea of a laid-off Tektronix CRT manager getting $200,000 in cash.
How was he going to use that much cash? (launder it?)

It doesn't make sense to me that someone smart enough to design/manufacture/test/recycle CRTs for Tektronix would do something criminal, which even if successful, would be unlikely to result in cash he could use....Unless his plan was to move out of the area and ??

Maybe the tie was bought at a thrift store in Portland, like people have suggested.

Lots of little details about the area back in the 60’s and 70’s that the out of State Feds didn’t know about ! I doubt hardly anyone even back in the 70’s were aware of the tiny airfield hidden at the top of Scooters Mountain in Happy Valley, Oregon where I lived for 28 years. It was called Trohs and had a gravel runway. My Uncle who flew for United forever landed his Cessna there when he came to visit. He was so disgusted that some of the gravel rocks on runway put dents in his new aircraft. Next trip he put her down at the Troutdale Airport about 7 miles East of PDX. I wonder how many recall when a commercial pilot mistakingly mistook Troutdale airport for Portland International and landed his large aircraft at Troutdale ! I’m sure the FAA were not happy about that !

Kermit · « **Reply #4370 on:** November 26, 2018, 05:08:11 PM »

The Aircraft was a DC 8 with 81 passengers aboard plus crew. Plane landed on August 13, 1962 at the small Airport in Troutdale, Oregon.

snowmman · « **Reply #4371 on:** November 26, 2018, 05:09:44 PM »

I think you mean Scouters Mountain, not Scooters. ??

map here?

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Maybe it was called "Troh's Nest"/Happy Valley Airport?

The airport was located on top of a hill (called 'Scouter’s Mountian') in rural Clackamas County.

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“Troh’s Nest was the 3rd & last of Henry Troh’s 3 Portland area airports.

He bought the land in 1957 when it became clear that city taxes & development were going to force the closure of his larger 'Skyport' airport

located in the rapidly developing area of east Portland.

This new airfield was to be somewhat of a retirement location for Henry, farther away from the growth and excitement of the city.

However 'Troh’s Nest' ended up being more of a project than either of his 2 previous airfields.

The airport was located on top of a hill (called 'Scouter’s Mountian') in rural Clackamas County.

After buying the land, Henry graded a preliminary short north/south airstrip on top of the hill which amounted to only about 1,200 usable feet.

Henry Troh & his wife Ethyl Piper (the aircraft manufacturer’s daughter) built a home & hangar adjacent to the airfield & moved there in 1958.

Their plan was to create a small fly-in community with houses for pilots adjacent to the runway.”

According to Lorraine Troh Gabel (in her biography of her dad “Time Flies”), when Henry’s “Skyport” Airport finally closed in 1958,

he focused on extending the short runway at Troh’s Nest.

He purchased the adjacent 47 acre tract to the south for this purpose but quickly realized he had a major problem.

Unknown to him, shortly after he purchased the initial parcel for his retirement airport,

his neighbor (a Boy Scout Adult Training Center) purchased a 3 acre square of land precisely at the south end of his runway

for the purpose of preventing him from extending it.

After being approached by Henry’s attorney, the Scout Council offered to sell the land they had purchased for $1,000 the year before to him for $10,000!

Troh was furious & refused to pay the outrageous sum.

Both of Portland’s local papers reported on the dispute with each one taking a different side on the matter.

“Eventually Troh decided to fill in a valley on his property for a new, longer runway

which would sidestep the Scout Council blockade even though this took away the parcels on which he was going to build the additional homes for pilots.

The 2nd turf runway was finished around 1964. It was designated 14/32 and was 1,900' long according to the 1967 Airports USA Directory.”

“Henry Troh used it to run a successful charter business from the airport until his untimely passing from a brain tumor in 1968.”

“After Troh’s death, his wife & daughter negotiated a land trade with the Scout Council which removed the 3-acre blockade parcel

and allowed a 3rd runway (16/34) to be built to 2,300' feet according to the 1976 AOPA Airports USA.

“Strangely, Happy Valley Airport was still depicted as an active airport on the 2010 Portland Sectional,

however given the runway obstructions, it is unlikely that it is usable as an airport.”

Kermit · « **Reply #4372 on:** November 26, 2018, 05:42:34 PM »

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I think you mean Scouters Mountain, not Scooters. ??

map here?

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Maybe it was called "Troh's Nest"/Happy Valley Airport?

The airport was located on top of a hill (called 'Scouter’s Mountian') in rural Clackamas County.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

“Troh’s Nest was the 3rd & last of Henry Troh’s 3 Portland area airports.

He bought the land in 1957 when it became clear that city taxes & development were going to force the closure of his larger 'Skyport' airport

located in the rapidly developing area of east Portland.

This new airfield was to be somewhat of a retirement location for Henry, farther away from the growth and excitement of the city.

However 'Troh’s Nest' ended up being more of a project than either of his 2 previous airfields.

The airport was located on top of a hill (called 'Scouter’s Mountian') in rural Clackamas County.

After buying the land, Henry graded a preliminary short north/south airstrip on top of the hill which amounted to only about 1,200 usable feet.

Henry Troh & his wife Ethyl Piper (the aircraft manufacturer’s daughter) built a home & hangar adjacent to the airfield & moved there in 1958.

Their plan was to create a small fly-in community with houses for pilots adjacent to the runway.”

According to Lorraine Troh Gabel (in her biography of her dad “Time Flies”), when Henry’s “Skyport” Airport finally closed in 1958,

he focused on extending the short runway at Troh’s Nest.

He purchased the adjacent 47 acre tract to the south for this purpose but quickly realized he had a major problem.

Unknown to him, shortly after he purchased the initial parcel for his retirement airport,

his neighbor (a Boy Scout Adult Training Center) purchased a 3 acre square of land precisely at the south end of his runway

for the purpose of preventing him from extending it.

After being approached by Henry’s attorney, the Scout Council offered to sell the land they had purchased for $1,000 the year before to him for $10,000!

Troh was furious & refused to pay the outrageous sum.

Both of Portland’s local papers reported on the dispute with each one taking a different side on the matter.

“Eventually Troh decided to fill in a valley on his property for a new, longer runway

which would sidestep the Scout Council blockade even though this took away the parcels on which he was going to build the additional homes for pilots.

The 2nd turf runway was finished around 1964. It was designated 14/32 and was 1,900' long according to the 1967 Airports USA Directory.”

“Henry Troh used it to run a successful charter business from the airport until his untimely passing from a brain tumor in 1968.”

“After Troh’s death, his wife & daughter negotiated a land trade with the Scout Council which removed the 3-acre blockade parcel

and allowed a 3rd runway (16/34) to be built to 2,300' feet according to the 1976 AOPA Airports USA.

“Strangely, Happy Valley Airport was still depicted as an active airport on the 2010 Portland Sectional,

however given the runway obstructions, it is unlikely that it is usable as an airport.”

Yes of course it was on top of Scouters Mountain, not Scooters Mountain as I’m guilty often of not proof reading my posts ! The Hill was probably at the 800 ft elevation as my home was about 600 ft. as I recall. The Boy Scout Lodge was just across the road from the airfield and was home to many of the regional Boy Scout ceremonies. The Mountain is presently being developed with new housing as the view property is probably just too spendy and the Airstip is history. I was a member of the Happy Valley planning commission for many years and the City had a population of 1214 when I lived there. One of my neighbors owned his own Aircraft and would actually fly in and out of his backyard on his own self made runway ! Rules and regulations were very lax back in those days ! See no evil... report no evil !

Unsurelock · « **Reply #4373 on:** November 26, 2018, 06:52:00 PM »

It's going to come down to money. I think Tom has learned not to put his own money into this case except in certain cases. Give it a shot. Let's see what McCrone would charge for analysis. I would consider chipping in.

In the meantime, all of the pure antimony particles found, while they could have come from a diode used to control the flow of electricity in the bomb, they also could have come from manufacturing the glass for a TV screen:

"Another (use for Antimony) is a fining agent to remove microscopic bubbles in glass, mostly for TV screens; antimony ions interact with oxygen, suppressing the tendency of the latter to form bubbles."

Shutter · « **Reply #4374 on:** November 26, 2018, 07:04:03 PM »

Staff time: $140-$200; analysis: $50-$500 per sample or $150-$290 per
hour.

This is not McCrone

Unsurelock · « **Reply #4375 on:** November 26, 2018, 07:27:53 PM »

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Staff time: $140-$200; analysis: $50-$500 per sample or $150-$290 per
hour.

This is not McCrone

Per sample. I assume this is the equivalent of one stub that was used on the tie rather than one tie.

snowmman · « **Reply #4376 on:** November 26, 2018, 08:05:54 PM »

Before doing anything new, I think we need better data/analysis results from what's already been done.

Like if someone is sure the existing data says "phosphors"

can someone extract the exact data in the xls file that is a phosphor particle? and all the particles that are similar?

It doesn't make sense to pursue phosphors unless we all agree the current data likely has phosphors.

I was hoping Tom Kaye would distribute a powerpoint slide deck or something that supports the claims.

Is the idea that the xls files is sufficient to support the claims? If so, what entries in what files?

snowmman · « **Reply #4377 on:** November 26, 2018, 08:09:43 PM »

Here's an example of why I"m wondering if I'm just dumb.

All this talk about Yttrium and red phosphor.
My quick read is that you need Europium too?

Was Europium tested for? Or, the non-existent in the xls, does that mean no Europium was found? (activator for red phosphors with Yttrium)

If there's no Europium or other activator, why the talk about red phosphors?

Tom implied multi-color display phosphors? ...I think that's unlikely and if it's really phosphor, it's some kind of single color display. If so, what phosphor/color?

Or is really a color tv (color crt display)

Way too much nod and wink going on here, I think.

Shutter · « **Reply #4378 on:** November 26, 2018, 09:05:44 PM »

How about Fluorescent tubes?

FLYJACK · « **Reply #4379 on:** November 26, 2018, 09:40:21 PM »

Snowmman,

Do you happen to recall where this came from? One of your posts on DZ..

"They said only one bundle was missing rubber bands"

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Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case (Read 1401325 times)

snowmman

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

snowmman

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

snowmman

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snowmman

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Kermit

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Kermit

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snowmman

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Kermit

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Unsurelock

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Shutter

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Unsurelock

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snowmman

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snowmman

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Shutter

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FLYJACK

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