Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
6 (9.5%)
25% Cooper lived
4 (6.3%)
35% Cooper lived.
2 (3.2%)
50% Cooper lived
14 (22.2%)
75% Cooper lived
14 (22.2%)
100 Cooper lived
23 (36.5%)

Total Members Voted: 58

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 1389104 times)

Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4350 on: November 26, 2018, 01:02:25 AM »
colors of some of the various phosphors (attached)
P1, P2, P7, P11, P31 (tektronix mentioned these?)

also table of standard phosphors
a lot of colors there

« Last Edit: November 26, 2018, 01:04:28 AM by snowmman »
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4351 on: November 26, 2018, 03:33:51 AM »
Tektronix had it's first layoffs in it's history in fall 1971
Also, curious death of it's chairman/co-founder May 16, 1971

Earnings fell for the first time in fiscal 1971, by a devastating 34.7 percent. Early in the year employees took unpaid time off to avoid layoffs, but it did not help. That autumn, Tektronix announced the first layoffs in its fast-paced history.

Adding to the pain that year was the death of Murdock, who drowned when his seaplane flipped during takeoff on the Columbia River. Murdock had not been active in daily management of the company for many years, but he had stayed on as chairman of the board and was generally regarded as the person who gave Tektronix its strategic vision.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2018, 03:34:57 AM by snowmman »
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4352 on: November 26, 2018, 04:07:01 AM »
In July 2008 I posted this at DZ.com...hmm. maybe I should have stayed focused on Tektronix!

The interesting/bizarre thing: Melvin Jack Murdock's body was never found. And he was flying with this woman Naomi Hamblin?? Murdock was 53 then. I remember thinking it was an example of how a body could be lost in the Columbia and not found.

Specifically: Jack Murdock drowned at age 53 after a floatplane accident on the Columbia River on a Sunday afternoon in Klickitat County, Washington. Jack's body was never recovered. He had been flying a 1970 Piper PA-18-150 "Super Cub," #N8745Y
He was taxiing for takeoff in rough water on a Sunday afternoon when his Piper "Super Cub" floatplane nosed over in the water.

Less than 2 weeks after that, the other co-founder of Tektronix, Vollum had a heart attack (but recovered).

from my DZ.com post:

I got into looking at this because I was wondering about an engineer in the Portland area, rather than Seattle. Intel didn't have fabs there yet in '71. Tektronix was a big employer. They had their first hard time in '71..from company history:

"Earnings fell for the first time in fiscal 1971, by a devastating 34.7 percent. Early in the year employees took unpaid time off to avoid layoffs, but it did not help. That autumn, Tektronix announced the first layoffs in its fast-paced history. Adding to the pain that year was the death of Murdock, who drowned when his seaplane flipped during takeoff on the Columbia River. Murdock had not been active in daily management of the company for many years, but he had stayed on as chairman of the board and was generally regarded as the person who gave Tektronix its strategic vision.

Less than two weeks after Murdock's death, Vollum suffered a heart attack. Vollum recovered, but he resigned as president in 1972."

Murdock was quite a guy. details of the accident:

from Google News (article snippet)
May 18, 1971 - State Patrol officers said Murdock, 54, and a passenger, Naomi Hamblin of Portland, swam for shore after staying with the overturned plane for two hours. Police said Murdock apparently did not make it to shore. Mrs. Hamblin said the two floated downstream with the plane until it was caught in ...

So, even though a lot of drowned bodies are found today, eventually (some not till 6 months later?)...this is an existence proof for a drowning victim in the Columbia never being found in '71.


There's also the peripheral idea of a laid off Tektronix worker being Cooper? They cancelled layoffs in the spring, but I think? they had them in the fall as it notes above.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2018, 04:15:11 AM by snowmman »
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4353 on: November 26, 2018, 05:22:06 AM »
Interesting: Texktronix recycled scrap CRTs from manufacture

article said:
"The high technology and complex processes required to build CRTs cause a high scrap rate. We reclaim and salvage materials from rejects, including some $2.5 million in parts and assemblies per year"

This was 1975.

Cooper maybe was involved in reclaim and salvage at Tektronix, rather than engineering/manufacture.

The high scrap rate is interesting.  Things would probably be "less clean" in that area.
 
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4354 on: November 26, 2018, 08:03:00 AM »
My grandfather worked on TV's on the side for years. he use to use a brick to bust the cathode (neck) before tossing the tubes in the garbage. would of been interesting to test his clothes for particles. I'm not sure how much would really be found. all the goody particles are inside the tube.

The only way the garbage men would take these picture tubes back then was if the cathode neck was busted. this released the vacuum in the tube.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2018, 08:08:02 AM by Shutter »
 

Offline 377

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4355 on: November 26, 2018, 08:07:31 AM »
Interesting find Snow.

I started repairing radios and TVs at age 12. Within a year I had a thriving business doing fixed price monochrome CRT replacements. A local distributor saw the end coming as color TVs were entering the market. He agreed to sell me black and white CRTs for very low prices. Most of the time the CRTs I was hired to replace had worn out electron guns with weak emission and consequently low screen brightness. Filament voltage boosters were not much help as they gave a brighter but washed out low contrast screen images. A few jobs resulted from set owners accidentally breaking the melted glass vacuum seal at the end of the CRT neck. Sometimes the neck itself was fractured. This happened with the back of the set removed in order to remove tubes for testing at drug store DIY tube testers. Were this same accident to happen on a color CRT it could result in a vacuum implosion of air and a few glass particles followed by an expulsion of rare earth screen phosphors out of the newly created orifice.

Tektronix sounds more promising but all sources need to be considered. TV repairmen might get exposed. And yes, some of the grown up ones wore ties on house calls.

377


 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4356 on: November 26, 2018, 08:11:23 AM »
I think you would have to look more into manufacturing with direct exposure to these elements. specifically the manufacturing of the tube itself and not so much the electronics part of the television or any given device with a screen.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2018, 08:11:50 AM by Shutter »
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4357 on: November 26, 2018, 01:06:16 PM »
yeah, the existence of the "frit" is new
that was used to bond glass
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I wonder how they determined that.

Has Tom backed away from "pure Ti"

While Tom has done good work, I think he should write up things better at his site.

He didn't address Palladium at all?

I was thinking maybe Tektronix was involved with Palladium-plated contects, but I don't see things like Palladium-nickel. Palladium is combined with weird things.

Basically: the data at Tom's site doesn't make sense to me. Tom says to pursue it, but I don't really trust his data.

From his data, I can't see the conclusions he's making.

Like the Cerium Lanthanum, could that just be from the flint in a cigarette lighter?

And why is the Palladium present with Aluminum?

And Tom hasn't presented enough pictures to say why "cutting tool". There's a couple of spirals on his site.

And why jump to the conclusion that the gold and platinum is from jewelry?
Is the Palladium from jewelry too? Seems like a random guess.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2018, 01:15:38 PM by snowmman »
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4358 on: November 26, 2018, 01:08:51 PM »
It'd be interesting to show the particles that are supposed to be phosphors, so we could agree on why we think there are phosphors.

I'm not even sure the statement "there are phosphors" is correct.

If it is, we could isolate it to one of the standard phosphors that are used.

Tektronix used a lot of P31..a green phosphor. Some others also.

I couldn't find anything relating to any Portland Skydiving Club (if it existed) or anything around Beavorton in the FBI files.

I wonder how heavily Portland was investigated as an area for Cooper.
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4359 on: November 26, 2018, 01:21:23 PM »
Glass frits contain stuff like
Na2O, CaO, B2O3, Al2O3, and SiO2

I wonder how they determined it was a frit?
I would think they decided based on pictures.

We need some pictures of the so-called glass frit
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4360 on: November 26, 2018, 01:38:51 PM »
nice video showing how they made ceramic crt's at tektronix in 1967



you can see the manufacturing line, and how they handled the materials

lot of loose powder!

no ties on the manufacturing line.

very manual process. lots of hand touching everything.

lathe-like thing used at the end, I think as part of the sealing process
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Glass crt was probably similar
 

Offline Kermit

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4361 on: November 26, 2018, 01:47:11 PM »
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It'd be interesting to show the particles that are supposed to be phosphors, so we could agree on why we think there are phosphors.

I'm not even sure the statement "there are phosphors" is correct.

If it is, we could isolate it to one of the standard phosphors that are used.

Tektronix used a lot of P31..a green phosphor. Some others also.

I couldn't find anything relating to any Portland Skydiving Club (if it existed) or anything around Beavorton in the FBI files.

I wonder how heavily Portland was investigated as an area for Cooper.

I lived in Portland area since my folks moved there in 1946. Tektronics, Iron Fireman and Electronics Specialty were all huge local Companies in those days ! Iron Fireman and Electronic Specialty became Boeing later and my older brother worked there for many years as an Engineer.
As for Skydiving, there were some in the Aurora/Canby area and also the Eagle Creek/Estacada areas. Both are suburbs of Portland as Portland actually had very few good areas within its City Limits.
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4362 on: November 26, 2018, 02:12:45 PM »
Hmm. the magic words all in one sentence (at Tektronix)
I think from 1989 though?

"titanium avionics color CRT frit fixturing"

Maybe EDM was the unknown manufacturing process some of the particles displayed in pictures.

These parts were put in a time capsule at Tektronix, from the tool and die shop.

Interesting use of EDM (Electrical Discharge Machining) at Tektronix in 1960s
They did have titanium avionics color CRT frit fixturing.

These parts were prepared to demonstrate the capabilities of the Electrical Discharge Machining (EDM) process.  This is a “non-traditional” metal machining technique using high voltage applied to numerically controlled, opposed wire electrodes submerged in a dielectric liquid.  EDM grew in popularity in the 1960’s as a means to pattern metal stock more rapidly and efficiently than conventional machining.  It was used, for example, to fabricate steel electron gun fabrication tooling and the titanium avionics color CRT frit fixturing.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2018, 02:23:29 PM by snowmman »
 

Offline DovidFraiman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4363 on: November 26, 2018, 04:20:31 PM »
In reply to snowmman

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Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4364 on: November 26, 2018, 04:24:36 PM »
Okay, this plan needs someone who knows how to kiss Tom Kaye's ass.

What if we get a '60s era Textronix CRT break it open and analyze the phosphors using the same SEM process?

we should be able to get an exact particle match, if what Tom Kaye claims is true: both images and SEM analysis.

Just need to know what phosphors Tom is looking for. Then we find the CRT.

Basically it's calling Tom out. He's talking smack on stage, but I don't think he has the data to back it up. I'd like to see the data driven thing.

This is just like fingerprint matching. Everyone assumes we can't do the fingerprint match, but it's easy. The CRT tubes are still around.

Is Tom motivated to do any more work?