Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
5 (11.6%)
25% Cooper lived
2 (4.7%)
35% Cooper lived.
1 (2.3%)
50% Cooper lived
10 (23.3%)
75% Cooper lived
9 (20.9%)
100 Cooper lived
16 (37.2%)

Total Members Voted: 38

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 417325 times)

FLYJACK

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2625 on: February 12, 2018, 04:18:22 PM »
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Website: Tom Kaye


The titanium and stainless particle is quite informative (Fig. 5). This particle requires several Fig. 5  Titanium piece with embedded stainless steel particle at top. The color coding is green for titanium and red for iron.  (Length = 0.43mm)factors be in place for its production. The first requirement is that there is pure titanium available. Second, a 400 series stainless steel has to be in intimate association with the titanium. Third, there has to be some type of device or machinery involved, capable of producing high-compressive forces that would abrade and smear the two metals together as shown. The fact the stainless particle was smeared into the titanium means its highly unlikely that it was from a hardened cutting tool, which would tend to fracture and not smear. The most likely place these factors would come together and produce this type of particle, would be in a fabrication facility using titanium.

Fact: All titanium used in aircraft is alloyed and the Cooper material was pure titanium.
Interpretation: Due to the lack of alloyed titanium, Cooper did not work in the aircraft industry.

YES, and what about all the other (almost 40) particles, CP Ti is only one..

The best match for all particles that I could find is a specific Dental Lab. NOT DENTAL OFFICE.

The tie was manufactured late 1965/early 1966 based on the two labels. I found a pilot/skydiver in that environment from 1966-1971.



Do any of these metallic particles show the Widmanstätten pattern indicative of meteoric origin?  That could link Cooper to the Astronaut core group ?

Mockery is not an actual argument.

If you can find a better particle environment match, do let us know..

.

Mockery? Hang up phone calls to my apt at Iowa City? WTF!  It may be YOU who is MOCKING US! iN FACT it is YOU who HAVE refused to let us into the resources you are using or your methods? We have been asking for months! You single hanedly come up with more astounding 'scientific breakthroughs' in the DB Cooper case than any other single known person ever in the history of the DB Cooper case. Except for Tom Kaye of course. So what are your methods and practices - just shear brilliance? You see and know things nobody knows - not even the FBI! So dear one - please stop making hangup calls to my apartment. Just share your methods for a change. Life will be a lot simpler that way -  :rofl:  Stop mocking us! And me.   :rofl:

So my question still stands: Do any of these metallic particles show the Widmanstätten pattern indicative of meteoric (high percentage nickle) origin/content?

You are a scientific tecky guy (apparently) - who does mass spectroscopy in his spare time? So you surely should know the answer to my question. The question actually matters! Duhhhhhh. The answer options are: Yes, No, I don't know!

I mean, Cooper is alleged by some to have very technical (top secret) skills-knowledge. How far does this go? Is there any actual evidence of it. Particles on the tie may indicate a very high skill set!? You say a dental office? Could it be the Space Program? Astronaut program and astronaut washout core? 

And you call this mockery?  :nono: Im just exploring the options just as you are. So ... give me a break Einstein!

HAHA, doubling down..  :bravo:

I found a match for the tie environment by doing my own research and YOU found NOTHING.

Again, IF you have a better tie environment match LET US KNOW.. there may be one but nobody has identified it yet.

I do think that it is more important to at least consider the Dental Lab environment than mock it from a position of ignorance.

.
 

Offline 377

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2626 on: February 12, 2018, 04:27:41 PM »
What about the aluminum spirals? Is that consistent with a dental lab? I see that kind of shavings/debris in machine shops all the time.

377
« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 05:04:55 PM by 377 »
 

FLYJACK

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2627 on: February 12, 2018, 05:16:21 PM »
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What about the aluminum spirals? Is that consistent with a dental lab? I see that kind of shavings/debris in machine shops all the time.

377

You are referring to this.. from Citizensleuths.com

"Two spiral aluminum chips were extracted from the tie (Fig. 6). These spiral were very small at about 1/16" in length and were perfectly formed by a rotational cutting process like a lathe or drill bit. EDS analysis determined that the predominant alloy was magnesium, showing the closest match to either 500 series cast or 5000 series wrought aluminum. This series of aluminum is not found in either of the labs used to analyze these particles. 5000 series is known for its high corrosion resistance and good weldability (5). This type of particle is again typically found in a metal fabrication shop, consistent with the other findings."


Consistent - Dental labs do use lathes and in the late 1960's AL-MG alloys were used in dental implants.

However, with only 2 AL-MG spirals found it can't be ruled out that they were picked up in the plane or elsewhere.

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Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2628 on: February 12, 2018, 06:04:50 PM »
Flyjack, I asked you once before not to use HTML links unless you shrink down the original photo..it takes up far too much bandwidth...


I don't think you will get the spiral effect with a lathe...it's horizontal with a tool running across the material...a bench press, or drill bit has a point to it that will produce the small spirals that can range from small to large spirals...
 

Offline 377

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2629 on: February 12, 2018, 06:22:05 PM »
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hard to say... apparently you can get spiral shavings from drill presses, routers and lathes.

377

 

FLYJACK

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2630 on: February 12, 2018, 06:24:46 PM »
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Flyjack, I asked you once before not to use HTML links unless you shrink down the original photo..it takes up far too much bandwidth...


I don't think you will get the spiral effect with a lathe...it's horizontal with a tool running across the material...a bench press, or drill bit has a point to it that will produce the small spirals that can range from small to large spirals...

The image is small and from here, embedded.

Dental Labs use lathes, drills and drill presses.. 1/16" spiral length is very very small

Having almost 40 of the tie particles consistent with a Dental Lab environment is not proof but it is very convincing and worth pursuing with no other environment even coming close.

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Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2631 on: February 12, 2018, 06:31:46 PM »
Fair enough...actually, almost any bit will produce a micro spiral...they all have points..

the question is, how dirty of a lab/shop was it to get the material on the tie...labs are usually pretty controlled, even the manufacturing of televisions..when I work in the shop using drills, or even the large 24" saw, I get aluminum all over me.

Labs, and large manufacturing companies are pretty clean, unlike a shop I work at, or any typical small manufacture. they tend to be much cleaner, including the equipment. shields block a lot...then you have a lot of them wearing coats, or lab jackets that hide most of the tie..

then the million dollar question like the prints & DNA...was it really Cooper's........
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2632 on: February 12, 2018, 06:40:56 PM »
A lathe works at a much higher RPM..they tend to give more of a coil type drop off vs a drill press gets a cone shape filing due to a slower RPM...If the lathe is working on metal on the inside, I guess it could produce this type of filing....
« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 06:43:33 PM by Shutter »
 

FLYJACK

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2633 on: February 12, 2018, 07:23:35 PM »
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Fair enough...actually, almost any bit will produce a micro spiral...they all have points..

the question is, how dirty of a lab/shop was it to get the material on the tie...labs are usually pretty controlled, even the manufacturing of televisions..when I work in the shop using drills, or even the large 24" saw, I get aluminum all over me.

Labs, and large manufacturing companies are pretty clean, unlike a shop I work at, or any typical small manufacture. they tend to be much cleaner, including the equipment. shields block a lot...then you have a lot of them wearing coats, or lab jackets that hide most of the tie..

then the million dollar question like the prints & DNA...was it really Cooper's........

There were very few spirals and they were small, most of the other particles were like dust.

That suggests a clean environment, not a machine shop.


Was the tie "Cooper's"..  or an accomplice or an unwitting associate?

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Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2634 on: February 12, 2018, 07:57:41 PM »
Quote
That suggests a clean environment, not a machine shop.

It's all speculation.

Could of been someone that didn't use the equipment that much, a jacket could of covered most of the material, the person could of been clean by not using his front to wipe down...some floor managers don't use the equipment..it goes on and on..

the tie could of been his mothers, his brother, the guy down the street...out of the garbage can 3.5 miles away from his home, where does it end?

I don't think it's anyone else's except his...but like others do with everything else...it's open season...all the above works. it's worth a shot to look into it, but I wonder if it can really be narrowed down...proving he survived seems to be the key point to all of it...
 

Offline MEYDC

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2635 on: February 12, 2018, 08:30:37 PM »
The tie could have been bought at a thrift store. Ties are hardly ever washed, so who is to say that the particles are an indicator for his career.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2636 on: February 12, 2018, 08:33:23 PM »
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The tie could have been bought at a thrift store. Ties are hardly ever washed, so who is to say that the particles are an indicator for his career.

True, but a tie is worn by millions, just as a suit is, so did Cooper really buy clothes? either way, he still had them and had to get rid of them....my guess is they were his clothes...
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2637 on: February 12, 2018, 09:55:34 PM »
Titanium Trivia

Titanium was not put to use until the 20th century. Although titanium was discovered in 1791, a large-scale process to refine it was not developed until the late 1940’s. In the United States, the government funded the start-up of the titanium industry for development of titanium as a strategic metal for aircraft, missiles, and spacecraft.


The 1955 General Motors Firebird II experimental concept car’s body was made from titanium. GM’s brochure from the 1956 Motorama auto show referred to titanium as the 'wonder metal'. GM stylist Harley Earl received patent 180509 for his design, which resembles a jet fighter on four wheels. The concept car never went into production, however GM’s Pontiac division later adopted the Firebird name for their very popular muscle car.

The first submarine constructed with a titanium hull was called the Soviet Project 661 - The Anchar. Construction of the Anchar began in 1963 at Sevmash, and was handed over to the Soviet navy in 1969.

 
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FLYJACK

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2638 on: February 12, 2018, 10:22:07 PM »
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Quote
That suggests a clean environment, not a machine shop.

It's all speculation.

Could of been someone that didn't use the equipment that much, a jacket could of covered most of the material, the person could of been clean by not using his front to wipe down...some floor managers don't use the equipment..it goes on and on..

the tie could of been his mothers, his brother, the guy down the street...out of the garbage can 3.5 miles away from his home, where does it end?

I don't think it's anyone else's except his...but like others do with everything else...it's open season...all the above works. it's worth a shot to look into it, but I wonder if it can really be narrowed down...proving he survived seems to be the key point to all of it...

True,

but the combination of particles found on the tie are very unique and it came from somewhere. It is physical evidence that may lead to something. Probably the best lead in this case.

I found a pilot/skydiver that was in that specific Dental Lab environment from 1966 to 1971 and the kicker is some of you know him though he has never been brought up in relation to the Cooper case. He may have been the source for tie (knowingly or unknowingly). He is also one person/associate away from the Seattle Dan Cooper comic.

This is a thread that needs to be pulled...

.

 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2639 on: February 12, 2018, 10:39:24 PM »
Quote
This is a thread that needs to be pulled...

Why?