Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
5 (11.6%)
25% Cooper lived
2 (4.7%)
35% Cooper lived.
1 (2.3%)
50% Cooper lived
10 (23.3%)
75% Cooper lived
9 (20.9%)
100 Cooper lived
16 (37.2%)

Total Members Voted: 38

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 414985 times)

Offline Lynn

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2610 on: February 11, 2018, 04:12:56 PM »
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Hayden is mentioned with his chutes..page 67
Thanks! Still reading the Ckret DZ files. Interesting stuff. Keeps bringing me back to the parachutes.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2611 on: February 11, 2018, 04:14:05 PM »
that will take a while to read through...good stuff...I quote from it often... O0
 

Offline MEYDC

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2612 on: February 11, 2018, 07:55:30 PM »
I am going through FBI Files and saw something interesting FILE 164-81 the date was 11-29-71 SA Henry Schutz talked to the artist who interviewed one of the stewerdesses, the only one who saw the man without glasses, and she unable to definatley recall what his eyes looked like. I hadn't seen that before. I am still going through the files so I wonder if I will see something else about this. Yesterday I also saw something interesting in the fbi files Richard McCoy's family had taken an add in a paper out asking for money for his defense fund.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2018, 08:12:00 PM by MEYDC »
 

georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2613 on: February 11, 2018, 11:31:36 PM »
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I believe right where you were looking has them...pretty sure...

Prediction: In my dotage, my scrolling finger will be a hook. Thanks! :D

Anything in the files indicating they took photos inside 305 - at Reno.  ?
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2614 on: February 11, 2018, 11:36:10 PM »
Titanium Update:

Ron and pat Forman invited me to join an interview they conducted with an Aficionados of the DB Cooper case, Gary Dotson. Gary found the Forman's book in a Goodwill store in Puyallup, WA, and sought out the Formans. Surprisingly, he read an obscure passage at the end of the book that describes a friend of Barb's who lived near her in Nevada shortly before her death in 2002. Gary recognized that he knew this friend, whose name is "Seattle Sam." Sam has a last name which I am withholding at this time to protect his privacy, but Sam and Gary were friends and both worked at Boeing in a variety of capacities, including the SST program. After the SST program was terminated in May 1971, Gary and Sam went to work at Lockheed as contractors. Both returned to Boeing afterwards.

Gary told us a lot about the titanium used in the SST program. I was surprised to hear that a lot of titanium was used, and Gary said that it was being used for structural supports in the wing, hinges and pins, and other critical elements in the wing, which is an application for Ti far beyond what Sailshaw had been describing to us.

Gary told us that for one of his jobs he worked in a fabrication shop that cut the titanium and he described the kinds of drilling and sawing that was required to fab the titanium parts. Drill bits were discarded after one hole - the Ti is that tough. The cutting saws blades had multiple facets, and the dulling was severe.

Gary also told us that Boeing was using so much titanium that large shipments had to be imported from Russia.

Surprisingly, Gary said that everyone who worked on the manufacturing floor did not wear a tie, but everyone in his key punch and data centers associated with the manufacturing areas did. Gary did not wear a clip-on tie - he wore a full-length traditional tie.

Gary worked in the Auburn Boeing facility, whereas Sail worked in the Renton plant. Both were manufacturing facilities. Boeing had a third SST plant in Portland.

Gary also told us that technicians from Tektronix were up at the Auburn plant conducting tests and other research on their monitors. He knew the name, "Tektronix," well. It was not a foreign name to him at all.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2018, 11:37:35 PM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2615 on: February 11, 2018, 11:45:57 PM »
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Titanium Update:

Ron and pat Forman invited me to join an interview they conducted with an Aficionados of the DB Cooper case, Gary Dotson. Gary found the Forman's book in a Goodwill store in Puyallup, WA, and sought out the Formans. Surprisingly, he read an obscure passage at the end of the book that describes a friend of Barb's who lived near her in Nevada shortly before her death in 2002. Gary recognized that he knew this friend, whose name is "Seattle Sam." Sam has a last name which I am withholding at this time to protect his privacy, but Sam and Gary were friends and both worked at Boeing in a variety of capacities, including the SST program. After the SST program was terminated in May 1971, Gary and Sam went to work at Lockheed as contractors. Both returned to Boeing afterwards.

Gary told us a lot about the titanium used in the SST program. I was surprised to hear that a lot of titanium was used, and Gary said that it was being used for structural supports in the wing, hinges and pins, and other critical elements in the wing, which is an application for Ti far beyond what Sailshaw had been describing to us.

Gary told us that for one of his jobs he worked in a fabrication shop that cut the titanium and he described the kinds of drilling and sawing that was required to fab the titanium parts. Drill bits were discarded after one hole - the Ti is that tough. The cutting saws blades had multiple facets, and the dulling was severe.

Gary also told us that Boeing was using so much titanium that large shipments had to be imported from Russia.

Surprisingly, Gary said that everyone who worked on the manufacturing floor did not wear a tie, but everyone in his key punch and data centers associated with the manufacturing areas did. Gary did not wear a clip-on tie - he wore a full-length traditional tie.

Gary worked in the Auburn Boeing facility, whereas Sail worked in the Renton plant. Both were manufacturing facilities. Boeing had a third SST plant in Portland.

Gary also told us that technicians from Tektronix were up at the Auburn plant conducting tests and other research on their monitors. He knew the name, "Tektronix," well. It was not a foreign name to him at all.

Bruce, it was Lockheed, not Boeing, that was the developer of the use of Titanium in aircraft.  The Lockheed SR-71, and related designs, were made principally from Titanium and were flying prior to 1963.  So Lockheed was a decade or so ahead of Boeing in working with Titanium and did the hard work on learning how to process it for manufacturing purposes.
 

Offline Lynn

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2616 on: February 12, 2018, 01:30:38 AM »
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I am going through FBI Files and saw something interesting FILE 164-81 the date was 11-29-71 SA Henry Schutz talked to the artist who interviewed one of the stewerdesses, the only one who saw the man without glasses, and she unable to definatley recall what his eyes looked like. I hadn't seen that before. I am still going through the files so I wonder if I will see something else about this. Yesterday I also saw something interesting in the fbi files Richard McCoy's family had taken an add in a paper out asking for money for his defense fund.
Which part of the FBI docs is it in? I don't recall this, either, but do remember quite a bit of back-and-forthing about witness disagreements re the composite.
 

Offline MEYDC

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2617 on: February 12, 2018, 06:32:43 AM »
I think that it was in section 10 on the FBI files page. I have get ready for work but I will post a link if you can't find it later on.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2618 on: February 12, 2018, 09:07:15 AM »
was pure titanium used?

This titanium grade is used almost exclusively for airframe, aircraft engine parts, marine, surgical implants, hydraulic tubing. Good formability and corrosion resistance are its hallmark. Titanium Grade 5 (6AL-4V)is an alloyed titanium product containing 6% Aluminum and 4% Vanadium; is a medium strength product.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2619 on: February 12, 2018, 09:36:25 AM »
Website: Tom Kaye


The titanium and stainless particle is quite informative (Fig. 5). This particle requires several Fig. 5  Titanium piece with embedded stainless steel particle at top. The color coding is green for titanium and red for iron.  (Length = 0.43mm)factors be in place for its production. The first requirement is that there is pure titanium available. Second, a 400 series stainless steel has to be in intimate association with the titanium. Third, there has to be some type of device or machinery involved, capable of producing high-compressive forces that would abrade and smear the two metals together as shown. The fact the stainless particle was smeared into the titanium means its highly unlikely that it was from a hardened cutting tool, which would tend to fracture and not smear. The most likely place these factors would come together and produce this type of particle, would be in a fabrication facility using titanium.

Fact: All titanium used in aircraft is alloyed and the Cooper material was pure titanium.
Interpretation: Due to the lack of alloyed titanium, Cooper did not work in the aircraft industry.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 09:38:46 AM by Shutter »
 

FLYJACK

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2620 on: February 12, 2018, 11:11:15 AM »
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Website: Tom Kaye


The titanium and stainless particle is quite informative (Fig. 5). This particle requires several Fig. 5  Titanium piece with embedded stainless steel particle at top. The color coding is green for titanium and red for iron.  (Length = 0.43mm)factors be in place for its production. The first requirement is that there is pure titanium available. Second, a 400 series stainless steel has to be in intimate association with the titanium. Third, there has to be some type of device or machinery involved, capable of producing high-compressive forces that would abrade and smear the two metals together as shown. The fact the stainless particle was smeared into the titanium means its highly unlikely that it was from a hardened cutting tool, which would tend to fracture and not smear. The most likely place these factors would come together and produce this type of particle, would be in a fabrication facility using titanium.

Fact: All titanium used in aircraft is alloyed and the Cooper material was pure titanium.
Interpretation: Due to the lack of alloyed titanium, Cooper did not work in the aircraft industry.

YES, and what about all the other (almost 40) particles, CP Ti is only one..

The best match for all particles that I could find is a specific Dental Lab. NOT DENTAL OFFICE.

The tie was manufactured late 1965/early 1966 based on the two labels. I found a pilot/skydiver in that environment from 1966-1971.

 

Offline 377

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2621 on: February 12, 2018, 01:08:54 PM »
Q: Were any of the materials found on the tie linked to road flares? I know they are primarily sulfur but what else is in them?

Found this:

Flares produce their light through the combustion of a pyrotechnic composition. The ingredients are varied, but often based on strontium nitrate, potassium nitrate, or potassium perchlorate and mixed with a fuel such as charcoal, sulfur, sawdust, aluminium, magnesium, or a suitable polymeric resin.

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Last blog entry says: "They used to be a decent source of red phosphorous as well. Many of them would have a nice sized blob of it on the top... "

377

« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 01:10:44 PM by 377 »
 

georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2622 on: February 12, 2018, 03:01:45 PM »
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Website: Tom Kaye


The titanium and stainless particle is quite informative (Fig. 5). This particle requires several Fig. 5  Titanium piece with embedded stainless steel particle at top. The color coding is green for titanium and red for iron.  (Length = 0.43mm)factors be in place for its production. The first requirement is that there is pure titanium available. Second, a 400 series stainless steel has to be in intimate association with the titanium. Third, there has to be some type of device or machinery involved, capable of producing high-compressive forces that would abrade and smear the two metals together as shown. The fact the stainless particle was smeared into the titanium means its highly unlikely that it was from a hardened cutting tool, which would tend to fracture and not smear. The most likely place these factors would come together and produce this type of particle, would be in a fabrication facility using titanium.

Fact: All titanium used in aircraft is alloyed and the Cooper material was pure titanium.
Interpretation: Due to the lack of alloyed titanium, Cooper did not work in the aircraft industry.

YES, and what about all the other (almost 40) particles, CP Ti is only one..

The best match for all particles that I could find is a specific Dental Lab. NOT DENTAL OFFICE.

The tie was manufactured late 1965/early 1966 based on the two labels. I found a pilot/skydiver in that environment from 1966-1971.



Do any of these metallic particles show the Widmanstätten pattern indicative of meteoric origin?  That could link Cooper to the Astronaut core group ?
 

FLYJACK

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2623 on: February 12, 2018, 03:14:39 PM »
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Website: Tom Kaye


The titanium and stainless particle is quite informative (Fig. 5). This particle requires several Fig. 5  Titanium piece with embedded stainless steel particle at top. The color coding is green for titanium and red for iron.  (Length = 0.43mm)factors be in place for its production. The first requirement is that there is pure titanium available. Second, a 400 series stainless steel has to be in intimate association with the titanium. Third, there has to be some type of device or machinery involved, capable of producing high-compressive forces that would abrade and smear the two metals together as shown. The fact the stainless particle was smeared into the titanium means its highly unlikely that it was from a hardened cutting tool, which would tend to fracture and not smear. The most likely place these factors would come together and produce this type of particle, would be in a fabrication facility using titanium.

Fact: All titanium used in aircraft is alloyed and the Cooper material was pure titanium.
Interpretation: Due to the lack of alloyed titanium, Cooper did not work in the aircraft industry.

YES, and what about all the other (almost 40) particles, CP Ti is only one..

The best match for all particles that I could find is a specific Dental Lab. NOT DENTAL OFFICE.

The tie was manufactured late 1965/early 1966 based on the two labels. I found a pilot/skydiver in that environment from 1966-1971.



Do any of these metallic particles show the Widmanstätten pattern indicative of meteoric origin?  That could link Cooper to the Astronaut core group ?

Mockery is not an actual argument.

If you can find a better particle environment match, do let us know..

.
 

georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2624 on: February 12, 2018, 03:48:15 PM »
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Website: Tom Kaye


The titanium and stainless particle is quite informative (Fig. 5). This particle requires several Fig. 5  Titanium piece with embedded stainless steel particle at top. The color coding is green for titanium and red for iron.  (Length = 0.43mm)factors be in place for its production. The first requirement is that there is pure titanium available. Second, a 400 series stainless steel has to be in intimate association with the titanium. Third, there has to be some type of device or machinery involved, capable of producing high-compressive forces that would abrade and smear the two metals together as shown. The fact the stainless particle was smeared into the titanium means its highly unlikely that it was from a hardened cutting tool, which would tend to fracture and not smear. The most likely place these factors would come together and produce this type of particle, would be in a fabrication facility using titanium.

Fact: All titanium used in aircraft is alloyed and the Cooper material was pure titanium.
Interpretation: Due to the lack of alloyed titanium, Cooper did not work in the aircraft industry.

YES, and what about all the other (almost 40) particles, CP Ti is only one..

The best match for all particles that I could find is a specific Dental Lab. NOT DENTAL OFFICE.

The tie was manufactured late 1965/early 1966 based on the two labels. I found a pilot/skydiver in that environment from 1966-1971.



Do any of these metallic particles show the Widmanstätten pattern indicative of meteoric origin?  That could link Cooper to the Astronaut core group ?

Mockery is not an actual argument.

If you can find a better particle environment match, do let us know..

.

Mockery? Hang up phone calls to my apt at Iowa City? WTF!  It may be YOU who is MOCKING US! iN FACT it is YOU who HAVE refused to let us into the resources you are using or your methods? We have been asking for months! You single hanedly come up with more astounding 'scientific breakthroughs' in the DB Cooper case than any other single known person ever in the history of the DB Cooper case. Except for Tom Kaye of course. So what are your methods and practices - just shear brilliance? You see and know things nobody knows - not even the FBI! So dear one - please stop making hangup calls to my apartment. Just share your methods for a change. Life will be a lot simpler that way -  :rofl:  Stop mocking us! And me.   :rofl:

So my question still stands: Do any of these metallic particles show the Widmanstätten pattern indicative of meteoric (high percentage nickle) origin/content?

You are a scientific tecky guy (apparently) - who does mass spectroscopy in his spare time? So you surely should know the answer to my question. The question actually matters! Duhhhhhh. The answer options are: Yes, No, I don't know!

I mean, Cooper is alleged by some to have very technical (top secret) skills-knowledge. How far does this go? Is there any actual evidence of it. Particles on the tie may indicate a very high skill set!? You say a dental office? Could it be the Space Program? Astronaut program and astronaut washout core? 

And you call this mockery?  :nono: Im just exploring the options just as you are. So ... give me a break Einstein!

PS: Thanks for letting me get back to work! [Taken about a half hour ago, this series of 5 images shows SpaceX's Tesla Roadster (circled) cruising through the cosmos in a heliocentric orbit having a perihelion of 0.99 au and aphelion ~1.67 au. The orbital information was provided by NASA's JPL Horizons website. Thanks to Bill and the group.] This will be released to the media with a link shortly. 

Back to regularly scheduled multi-tasking at DBCooperForum.com !  :chr2:
« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 04:20:46 PM by georger »