Author Topic: Flight Path And Related Issues  (Read 224732 times)

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #3255 on: August 09, 2020, 07:56:18 PM »
When will Cooper become black and why not?
« Last Edit: August 09, 2020, 09:10:38 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #3256 on: August 09, 2020, 07:59:07 PM »
When did the flight path become similar to descriptions?
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #3257 on: August 09, 2020, 08:01:23 PM »
Didn't Ammerman expand his duties?
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #3258 on: August 09, 2020, 10:23:04 PM »
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When would out National defense system be down. it ran 24/7? the system had issues from the ground to the fighters?

Portland doesn't have to be involved directly with the hijacking..why is this so hard to understand? are all of these documents surrounding the Portland radar operators more plots for a conspiracy, why would they say what they did if they had no idea where 305 was was and how did it end up similar to the map?

Again, you made claims many times over the years about having a bomb and flying over cities, right? why in the world wouldn't the ground want to know where that plane was. especially in there own airspace? that doesn't explain away the statements made by the operators. 

Ammerman explains being on 150 mile range and not very effective, correct? he also claims Portland would be on 40 miles and much more precise, right? how is it they both come to the same conclusions (Portland) while two people that are not operators or "involved in the actual tracking" were right? this is like trying to explain away witnesses seeing a subject run out of a front door and you stating they came out of the back door?

These are tough hurdles to get over in order to change the path IMHO. I'm all for it but everything needs a valid reason to dismiss..

Basically, I don't know anything about the SAGE system or where it fit into the North American Air Defense Command's operation inside Cheyenne Mountain in Colorado Springs, Colorado.  But the air defense system for the western hemisphere started at about the North Pole.  Have you hear of the DEW (Distant Early Warning) radars in Northern Canada and Alaska.  Also, do you remember seeing any Navy EC-121 Constellations flying around with large radar domes on the top of the fuselage.  They covered the spots that the radars couldn't cover, and I happened to know some crew members who were on those 121's during 12+ hour missions.

The national air defense system did not start at McChord AFB in Seattle but thousands of miles north & east & west of there. 
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #3259 on: August 09, 2020, 10:45:52 PM »

I'm no expert on the SAGE either but read a lot about it. the system was divided into sectors similar to the traffic control system. all linked together. this included "Texas towers" in the ocean for increased warning time. I'm sure just as any other system it had it flaws. they had to identify everything in the air marking friend or foe..Cooper might of fell into the foe..might of been a great exercise for them tracking the plane, I don't know.

We all have questions and concerns revolving around the flight and the jump..no question about it..lots of things have to be properly dismissed to make any adjustments to where Cooper landed. it's hard when we don't have all the evidence. I'm not 100% on any of this, never have been. still undecided whether Cooper survived..Tom Kaye has been opening new doors for years and still doesn't push any single issue or possibility.
 

Offline georger

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #3260 on: Today at 12:11:49 AM »
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Hominid wrote the following....

The data coming from the radar site came in increments of .088° (1 4096th of a full circle) for azimuth and .25nm for range. If the likely errors were more than two times these values, the designers would simply have decreased the resolution of the data. There is no point in transmitting data to a precision of 1 if the data is only accurate to 8, for example. The direction center at McChord could have smoothed the data to get better accuracy.

But the coordinate data used to plot the FBI plot didn't necessarily take full advantage of the accuracy of the data the airforce had available. The data from which the plot was made was rounded to whole minutes of latitude and longitude. So the actual accuracy of the plots is ±.5 minutes of latitude and longitude. This was the source of the incorrect info about the '72 searchzone map to the effect that the accuracy was ±.5 nautical miles (should have been .5nm for N-S, but .347nm for E-W)



The positions were determined by computations, almost certainly by the airforce 84th radar evaluation squadron, using the coordinates and associated time stamps obtained from the Mt. Hebo site, plus the surveyed location of the Mt. Hebo site and the earth model of the time. The 84th had, and still has, a detachment at McChord and doing such analyses was part of their official functions and still is today. The McChord direction center just used the SAGE system in their normal function of tracking practically everything bigger than a piper or cessna. They did not analyze the system or data from it.

Shutter, if Hominid is still around how about getting him to explain where those numbers above came from?

In the 1971 time frame, radar antennas made about 6 revolutions per minute or about one revolution about ever 10 seconds.  That means the radar would paint an aircraft only about ever 10 seconds and the antenna would rotate about 60 degrees in that time frame.

In that 10 seconds, an airliner with a ground speed of about 180 knots, or 3 nautical miles per minute, would travel about one-half of a nautical mile or about 3000 feet.

The numbers presented above by Hominid are nonsense.  Radar used in tracking aircraft has never been that accurate in tracking aircraft or anything to my knowledge.  I believe Ammerman was recently quoted as saying that his radar display was only accurate to within several miles.

The Portland radar was not involved in the actual tracking of the airliner, that was strictly up to the Seattle ATC Controllers.  The operator apparently just happened to see it on his local display and he probably could not be certain that he was looking at 305 in the first place.

The SAGE system was reportedly not on line that night in the first place.  And all raw radar data used by the FAA and the USAF probably came from the same radar at McChord AFB.

Hom is no longer 'around'.    :congrats:   May he rest in peace.

Its a  :conspiracy:       Some things are beyond R99's grasp.  :o
« Last Edit: Today at 12:17:15 AM by georger »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #3261 on: Today at 05:40:49 AM »
Quote
Also, take a close look at the 1972 FBI Flight map (White) and compare it to the FBI Flight Path map (Yellow)...they are slightly different.

I've never seen the white version of the flight path. can this be posted? if you are talking about the dropzone maps, those were done by Paul S. and will not be exact to the map made by the Air Force...
 

Online EU

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #3262 on: Today at 07:57:37 AM »
I have never been able to upload pictures onto the Forum. Not sure why. I receive an error message even though the size of the image is not an issue.
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