Author Topic: 2019 Cooper  (Read 6869 times)

Offline Shutter

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Re: 2019 Cooper
« Reply #60 on: November 25, 2019, 09:06:36 PM »
that would be a negative....it appears to have drifted off lol
 

Offline nickyb233

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Re: 2019 Cooper
« Reply #61 on: November 25, 2019, 09:15:51 PM »
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Tig uses gas a hardly any smoke....have you ever welded or worked in a shop? you don't seem to have a clue how things work. especially, in a large warehouse...

Nope that’s why I joined different welding Facebook groups to learn and I talked with many welders. TIG might not produce visible smoke but it gives off an ozone of nano particles which are very real and very hazardous to these guys health. They have all kinds of medical issues because of it. Just because there is no smoke doesn’t mean there are no particles (fumes) being expelled into the environment, there nano which are not visible to the naked eye shut. If Kaye/mccrones  didn’t use an electron microscope they wouldn’t of been picked up.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2019, 10:08:31 PM by nickyb233 »
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: 2019 Cooper
« Reply #62 on: November 25, 2019, 10:52:22 PM »
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Tig uses gas a hardly any smoke....have you ever welded or worked in a shop? you don't seem to have a clue how things work. especially, in a large warehouse...

Nope that’s why I joined different welding Facebook groups to learn and I talked with many welders. TIG might not produce visible smoke but it gives off an ozone of nano particles which are very real and very hazardous to these guys health. They have all kinds of medical issues because of it. Just because there is no smoke doesn’t mean there are no particles (fumes) being expelled into the environment, there nano which are not visible to the naked eye shut. If Kaye/mccrones  didn’t use an electron microscope they wouldn’t of been picked up.

Nickyb233,

Are you suggesting that all, or at least the majority, of the particles found on the tie could come from the SST work area at Boeing?
 

Offline nickyb233

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Re: 2019 Cooper
« Reply #63 on: November 26, 2019, 02:03:23 AM »
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Tig uses gas a hardly any smoke....have you ever welded or worked in a shop? you don't seem to have a clue how things work. especially, in a large warehouse...

Nope that’s why I joined different welding Facebook groups to learn and I talked with many welders. TIG might not produce visible smoke but it gives off an ozone of nano particles which are very real and very hazardous to these guys health. They have all kinds of medical issues because of it. Just because there is no smoke doesn’t mean there are no particles (fumes) being expelled into the environment, there nano which are not visible to the naked eye shut. If Kaye/mccrones  didn’t use an electron microscope they wouldn’t of been picked up.

Nickyb233,

Are you suggesting that all, or at least the majority, of the particles found on the tie could come from the SST work area at Boeing?

Precisely or one of the other super sonic/aerospace projects pre 71...I spoke with newcomer David and his suspect worked on the SR-22 blackbird which would of been doing the same cutting edge/exploratory metallurgy work that would require fusion welding, the use of Silicon Spheres and commercially pure ti which would account for a good number of particles found on the mccrones report. It’s a very small pool of people cooper was swimming in when you peel back the onion on these tie particles.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2019, 02:52:51 AM by nickyb233 »
 

Offline nickyb233

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Re: 2019 Cooper
« Reply #64 on: November 26, 2019, 02:08:28 AM »
Rob did you know because of the financial bind Boeing was in, in 1971, they were off from thanksgiving until New Year’s Day? If cooper worked for Boeing that is very ideal, don’t have to be work on Monday and after the holidays DB cooper wouldn’t of been fresh in anyone’s mind.
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: 2019 Cooper
« Reply #65 on: November 26, 2019, 02:31:37 AM »
Interesting.
 
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Offline georger

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Re: 2019 Cooper
« Reply #66 on: November 26, 2019, 03:34:38 AM »
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Rob did you know because of the financial bind Boeing was in, in 1971, they were off from thanksgiving until New Year’s Day? If cooper worked for Boeing that is very ideal, don’t have to be work on Monday and after the holidays DB cooper wouldn’t of been fresh in anyone’s mind.

fresh in anyone’s mind ?  You mean forgotten? Or the hottest thing going in many people's minds! ?  ;)
 

Offline Darren

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Re: 2019 Cooper
« Reply #67 on: November 26, 2019, 12:05:04 PM »
What a great event! It was so much to hang out with everyone in person. I had an absolute blast and I'm already looking forward to next year!

Thank you to everyone!
The Cooper Vortex - A Podcast about DB Cooper - Available on most podcast apps
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Offline Robert99

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Re: 2019 Cooper
« Reply #68 on: November 26, 2019, 01:15:46 PM »
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Rob did you know because of the financial bind Boeing was in, in 1971, they were off from thanksgiving until New Year’s Day? If cooper worked for Boeing that is very ideal, don’t have to be work on Monday and after the holidays DB cooper wouldn’t of been fresh in anyone’s mind.

You are absolutely correct that Boeing, as well as aircraft companies in Southern California and elsewhere, had really big problems in the early 1970s.  This was an industry wide cataclysm where tens of thousands of aerospace workers, including thousands of engineers, lost their jobs.  I think Boeing alone lost about 30 or 40 thousand people.  In that time frame, I got off an airliner at LAX (Los Angeles) one afternoon and while waiting for my luggage saw a newspaper headline that one of the major aircraft companies there (I think it was North American) was cancelling the health benefits to its furloughed employees.  And the Engineers Club in the city where I got my aeronautical engineering degree was publicly advising students not to major in engineering. 
 

Offline 377

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Re: 2019 Cooper
« Reply #69 on: November 27, 2019, 02:01:13 PM »
R99 wrote: "And the Engineers Club in the city where I got my aeronautical engineering degree was publicly advising students not to major in engineering."

Shockingly short-sighted advice. The four years I spent getting my BSEE from UC Berkeley paid off hugely later on. The job market in engineering was not so good when I graduated so I decided to go to law school for three years.  Later on, when the tech boom started, an engineering degree was a ticket into all sorts of jobs even outside of engineering. Employers know that engineers can solve all sorts of problems through a disciplined analytical process. When I ran a corporate legal department I liked to hire lawyers with engineering degrees. They could tell the difference between signal and noise.

You don't have to possess an engineering degree to be a good engineer. I have seen self-taught ones do truly incredible things.   

377
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: 2019 Cooper
« Reply #70 on: November 27, 2019, 02:10:14 PM »
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R99 wrote: "And the Engineers Club in the city where I got my aeronautical engineering degree was publicly advising students not to major in engineering."

Shockingly short-sighted advice. The four years I spent getting my BSEE from UC Berkeley paid off hugely later on. The job market in engineering was not so good when I graduated so I decided to go to law school for three years.  Later on, when the tech boom started, an engineering degree was a ticket into all sorts of jobs even outside of engineering. Employers know that engineers can solve all sorts of problems through a disciplined analytical process. When I ran a corporate legal department I liked to hire lawyers with engineering degrees. They could tell the difference between signal and noise.

You don't have to possess an engineering degree to be a good engineer. I have seen self-taught ones do truly incredible things.   

377

On your last sentence above, reportedly one of Lockheed's most creative engineers on the U-2 and other projects only graduated from high school.  He reportedly listed a library in the Los Angeles area on his post high school  educational qualifications.
 

Offline georger

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Re: 2019 Cooper
« Reply #71 on: November 27, 2019, 02:48:52 PM »
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R99 wrote: "And the Engineers Club in the city where I got my aeronautical engineering degree was publicly advising students not to major in engineering."

Shockingly short-sighted advice. The four years I spent getting my BSEE from UC Berkeley paid off hugely later on. The job market in engineering was not so good when I graduated so I decided to go to law school for three years.  Later on, when the tech boom started, an engineering degree was a ticket into all sorts of jobs even outside of engineering. Employers know that engineers can solve all sorts of problems through a disciplined analytical process. When I ran a corporate legal department I liked to hire lawyers with engineering degrees. They could tell the difference between signal and noise.

You don't have to possess an engineering degree to be a good engineer. I have seen self-taught ones do truly incredible things.   

377

Lots of military trained techs even including directors of some programs got caught up in 'credential wars' that started in the late 1970s. I literally watched people at JPL and NASA actually lose their positions and be replaced by credentialed novices who had no experience, as this nonsense played out. Whole programs went down the tubes! It started with Congressional funders and Congressional bureaucrats suddenly requiring credentials as part of their funding application process. Oh course most of those 'bureaucratic political assholes' who were revising application processes were themselves "uncredentialed"! Private Industries like Bendix and Raytheon stepped on a tried to slow down the destructive process ... in the end the governmental credentialers got their way. Whole programs collapsed!

This nonsense may have set this country back 50 years! And it still hasnt been worked out. It resulted in total chaos which lasts to this day.

I know a guy who was a records orderly in 1962 at UIHC who eventually got his phd and was doing research at UIHC ... he got sick and everything collapsed on him. By 1980 he was destitute and divorced with two kids to raise. He finally got well enough to work again and he could not get hired by anybody! A records orderly position came open at UIHC and he went over to apply and was told he did not qualify! He would have to go back to Kirkwood Comm College and take their two year Records Orderly course to ... learn how to spell and alphabetize! He still has a letter from these a-holes at UIHC that literally spells this nonsense out.  He wound up homeless and almost committed suicide. Two years later he got a letter from UIHC asking him if he had now completed the Kirkwood course to become a 'records orderly'!  He took the letter back over to Personnel at UIHC and tore it up in front of the director's face.

So, if you get defunded due to the credentials wars and wind up sleeping under the bridge, just make sure you complete the Kirkwood College Records Orderly course so you can prove you can alphabetize and spell 'cat'.

I watched countless people and whole programs go down the tubes because of this nonsense, starting in the 1970s. This country may never recover from this mendacity.           

I watched a whole NASA program collapse because of the credential wars. The program was staffed and run by former military people who were top notch in their fields but lack academic credentials! The program was run through Raytheon and Bendix corporations. Universities and NASA were threatened with defunding by government bureaucrats due to a lack of 'credentialed people working in the program' ... and the whole program collapsed.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2019, 03:12:02 PM by georger »
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: 2019 Cooper
« Reply #72 on: November 27, 2019, 06:14:14 PM »
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R99 wrote: "And the Engineers Club in the city where I got my aeronautical engineering degree was publicly advising students not to major in engineering."

Shockingly short-sighted advice. The four years I spent getting my BSEE from UC Berkeley paid off hugely later on. The job market in engineering was not so good when I graduated so I decided to go to law school for three years.  Later on, when the tech boom started, an engineering degree was a ticket into all sorts of jobs even outside of engineering. Employers know that engineers can solve all sorts of problems through a disciplined analytical process. When I ran a corporate legal department I liked to hire lawyers with engineering degrees. They could tell the difference between signal and noise.

You don't have to possess an engineering degree to be a good engineer. I have seen self-taught ones do truly incredible things.   

377

Lots of military trained techs even including directors of some programs got caught up in 'credential wars' that started in the late 1970s. I literally watched people at JPL and NASA actually lose their positions and be replaced by credentialed novices who had no experience, as this nonsense played out. Whole programs went down the tubes! It started with Congressional funders and Congressional bureaucrats suddenly requiring credentials as part of their funding application process. Oh course most of those 'bureaucratic political assholes' who were revising application processes were themselves "uncredentialed"! Private Industries like Bendix and Raytheon stepped on a tried to slow down the destructive process ... in the end the governmental credentialers got their way. Whole programs collapsed!

This nonsense may have set this country back 50 years! And it still hasnt been worked out. It resulted in total chaos which lasts to this day.

I know a guy who was a records orderly in 1962 at UIHC who eventually got his phd and was doing research at UIHC ... he got sick and everything collapsed on him. By 1980 he was destitute and divorced with two kids to raise. He finally got well enough to work again and he could not get hired by anybody! A records orderly position came open at UIHC and he went over to apply and was told he did not qualify! He would have to go back to Kirkwood Comm College and take their two year Records Orderly course to ... learn how to spell and alphabetize! He still has a letter from these a-holes at UIHC that literally spells this nonsense out.  He wound up homeless and almost committed suicide. Two years later he got a letter from UIHC asking him if he had now completed the Kirkwood course to become a 'records orderly'!  He took the letter back over to Personnel at UIHC and tore it up in front of the director's face.

So, if you get defunded due to the credentials wars and wind up sleeping under the bridge, just make sure you complete the Kirkwood College Records Orderly course so you can prove you can alphabetize and spell 'cat'.

I watched countless people and whole programs go down the tubes because of this nonsense, starting in the 1970s. This country may never recover from this mendacity.           

I watched a whole NASA program collapse because of the credential wars. The program was staffed and run by former military people who were top notch in their fields but lack academic credentials! The program was run through Raytheon and Bendix corporations. Universities and NASA were threatened with defunding by government bureaucrats due to a lack of 'credentialed people working in the program' ... and the whole program collapsed.

You are correct!  I have heard of cases where organizations or firms would not be considered for some programs or contracts unless they had a certain number of people with graduate degrees in their organization.  I'm not sure the graduate degrees even had to be in a relevant field.

The Lockheed engineer that I mentioned above is the fellow who coined the term "Skunk Works" when he answered the telephone one day in the World War II era.  He was working on the P-80 design team developing America's first mass produced jet fighter at that time.  The Skunk Works name stuck and he used it because that team was working out of tents and there was a smelly garbage dump or some such thing nearby. 
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: 2019 Cooper
« Reply #73 on: November 27, 2019, 09:48:52 PM »
I got canned from my last therapy job for having the wrong kind of master's degree. Despite my 14 years in psychiatry, the State wanted something closer to "psychology" or "counseling," rather than "Recreation on the Therapeutic Track." CUNY had two types of Rec degrees. One was therapeutic, (recreation for hospitals and nursing homes), and the other was public, as in "Parks and Recreation."
« Last Edit: November 27, 2019, 09:50:11 PM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: 2019 Cooper
« Reply #74 on: November 27, 2019, 10:04:43 PM »
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I got canned from my last therapy job for having the wrong kind of master's degree. Despite my 14 years in psychiatry, the State wanted something closer to "psychology" or "counseling," rather than "Recreation on the Therapeutic Track." CUNY had two types of Rec degrees. One was therapeutic, (recreation for hospitals and nursing homes), and the other was public, as in "Parks and Recreation."

I selected my undergraduate school in part because they offered a degree with the title, "Bachelor of Science in Aeronautical Engineering".  In my early days, there were only a handful of engineering programs that offered degrees with "Aeronautical Engineering" in the title.